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New Solution to Long Queues in 4.1Follow

#1 Apr 06 2011 at 9:29 PM Rating: Good
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In patch 4.1 we'll be introducing Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms, a new system intended to lower queue times. Call to Arms will automatically detect which class role is currently the least represented in the queue, and offer them additional rewards for entering the Dungeon Finder queue and completing a random level-85 Heroic dungeon.

Any time the Dungeon Finder queue is longer than a few minutes for level-85 Heroics, the Call to Arms system kicks in and determines which role is the least represented. In the case of tanking being the least represented role, the "Call to Arms: Tanks" icon will display in the Dungeon Finder UI menu where class roles are selected, and will also display on the UI when the queue pops and you are selected to enter a dungeon. Regardless of your role, you'll always be able to see which role currently has been Called to Arms, if any.

Call to Arms is meant to lower wait times by offering additional rewards for queuing as the currently least represented role. To be eligible for the additional rewards you must solo queue for a random level-85 Heroic in the role that is currently being Called to Arms, and complete the dungeon by killing the final boss. Every time you hit these requirements (there is no daily limit) you'll receive a goodie bag that will contain some gold, a chance at a rare gem, a chance at a flask/elixir (determined by spec), a good chance of receiving a non-combat pet (including cross faction pets), and a very rare chance at receiving a mount. The pets offered come from a wide variety of sources, and include companions like the Razzashi Hatchling, Cockatiel, and Tiny Sporebat, but the mounts are those specifically only available through dungeons (not raids), like the Reins of the Raven Lord from Sethekk Halls, Swift White Hawkstrider from Magister's Terrace, and Deathcharger's Reins from Stratholme.

This system is meant to address the unacceptable queue times currently being experienced by those that queue for the DPS role at max level. The long queue times are, of course, caused by a very simple lack of representation in the Dungeon Finder by tanks, and to some extent healers. We don't feel the tanking and healing roles have any inherent issues that are causing the representation disparity, except that fulfilling them carries more responsibility. Understandably, players prefer to take on that responsibility in more organized situations than what the Dungeon Finder offers, but perhaps we can bribe them a little. While this system gives tanks and healers something extra, the incentive is being provided so that we can help players in the DPS role get into more dungeons, get better gear, and continue progressing.

While the gold, gems, flasks, and elixirs are OK incentives, we knew we needed something more substantial. We had briefly considered Valor Points and epics, but decided that wouldn't be working toward the goal of helping DPS players progress, and ultimately wouldn't keep tanks and healers in the Dungeon Finder system for very long. We settled on pets and dungeon-found mounts as they’re cosmetic/achievement items that players tend to try to get on their own, so why not change that up and offer them a chance to get some of those elusive pets and mounts in a way that also helps other players? Even if they don't get a pet or mount, or get one they already have, the gold and other goodies still feel rewarding enough that it won't feel like a waste of effort.

We think it's a pretty solid incentive to get tanks and healers queuing, give max-level players another way to collect the pets and mounts they so desire, and above all, to improve wait times for DPS players sitting in queues. In the case of lower level dungeons, it's actually not uncommon for DPS to be the least represented role, and so if this new system works out and we're pleased with the results, we may consider applying this same mechanic to lower level dungeons as well.

Source:MMO-Champion Blue Tracker http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/167937/41-preview-dungeon-finder-call-to-arms


Can this work ?
#2 Apr 06 2011 at 10:00 PM Rating: Good
I think it's a pretty neat idea, my only worry is how is Blizzard going to continue to reward tanks and healers after they receive all the pets and mounts? Is it a guaranteed thing, or does it just increase your chances of getting those rare items?

It'll definitely make me want to queue up as a healer on my druid. I've been working on learning to heal anyways, but this is just further motivation.
#3 Apr 06 2011 at 10:19 PM Rating: Good
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Somethings broken when they have to add incentives to get people to queue for certain roles.

I always thought the whole dungeon-finder coming from any realm would be an issue, it's "Great" for getting a group (I'm not at max level on any characters yet) but there's no accountability like there was when your group came from your server, oh you're the ninja-looter that XYZ mentioned, no you don't get a slot in my run. You previously ran into getting known for certain actions, now you just ditch group and queue for another.
#4 Apr 06 2011 at 10:29 PM Rating: Good
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Can this work ?


As a theory? Yes. In practice? Probably not.

A common Cata complaint seems to be that there is a lack of civility in PUGs. I'm not sure a bag of goodies will be enough to counterbalance caustic comments from people who just want a quick payoff for their random or the folks who think it is funny to test tanks and healers with stupid moves.

Let me look into the tea leaves ... yep, I see unseasoned tanks and healers facing lots of flames and vote kicks. There will probably be a side order of special abuse directed towards the victim for just having queued to get the reward for the "Call to Arms".

Unless they can find some way to change the tank+healer+DPS model they are stuck with limitations inherent to some classes (e.g. rogues, hunters, warlocks and mages).
#5 Apr 06 2011 at 10:33 PM Rating: Good
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How much gold we talking? Also if I have all the pets/mounts do I have a higher chance at flasks/gems or even more gold?

This will make me slightly more likely to tank randoms for a full group of random people depending on how the rewards are implemented.
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#6 Apr 06 2011 at 10:33 PM Rating: Good
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I'm not sure I like the idea of giving rep rewards like the Sporebat to people who havent got the rep... It should only reward items which are normally BoE in my opinion, but they shouldn't be BoE if obtained from the bag.
#7 Apr 06 2011 at 11:18 PM Rating: Good
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The biggest problem I see with this is, what are the pure DPS classes supposed to do? Are my warlock and hunter supposed to just watch all the tanks and healers get goodie bags all the time while I get nothing?
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#8 Apr 06 2011 at 11:23 PM Rating: Good
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JDLKY wrote:
[quote]
The pets offered come from a wide variety of sources, and include companions like the Razzashi Hatchling, Cockatiel, and Tiny Sporebat, but the mounts are those specifically only available through dungeons (not raids), like the Reins of the Raven Lord from Sethekk Halls, Swift White Hawkstrider from Magister's Terrace, and Deathcharger's Reins from Stratholme.


...

I ran MT over 50 times before the Swift White Hawkstrider dropped for me. A friend got the Raven Lord, but we were still working on it for me before my break from WoW.
This is completely unfair, and it's pretty sad that they have to bribe tanks and healers this way. Can you see the reactions from the other players in the group when they see some tank get a mount for running the same damn dungeon they all just did?

Bad idea.



#9 Apr 07 2011 at 12:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Karlina wrote:
The biggest problem I see with this is, what are the pure DPS classes supposed to do? Are my warlock and hunter supposed to just watch all the tanks and healers get goodie bags all the time while I get nothing?

You should probably just be happy you got a group to run a dungeon as a DPS class. Smiley: wink
#10 Apr 07 2011 at 12:41 AM Rating: Good
I don't see this as being unfair. If people want access to the goodie bags, then they can queue up as a tank or healer. For the pure DPS classes, well they can always do dungeons on their hybrid toons. It's not the best solution for the problem of few tanks and healers, but at least they're trying to do something.
#11 Apr 07 2011 at 12:47 AM Rating: Good
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Karlina wrote:
The biggest problem I see with this is, what are the pure DPS classes supposed to do? Are my warlock and hunter supposed to just watch all the tanks and healers get goodie bags all the time while I get nothing?
With the reduced time you have to spend in queue, you now have more time to farm these the normal way.
#12 Apr 07 2011 at 12:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
For the pure DPS classes, well they can always do dungeons on their hybrid toons.


And for those who collect pets/mounts on their pure DPS toons?

/eyebrow
#13 Apr 07 2011 at 1:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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isyris wrote:
PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
For the pure DPS classes, well they can always do dungeons on their hybrid toons.


And for those who collect pets/mounts on their pure DPS toons?

/eyebrow
It's not like they're new and unique mounts. It's just offering another way to get them that provides other benefits to other players instead of just the person farming it. Edit: And for the spam farmable one, I suspect farming it the old fashioned way will still be faster.

Edited, Apr 7th 2011 1:03am by Poldaran

Edited, Apr 7th 2011 5:09am by Poldaran
#14 Apr 07 2011 at 1:52 AM Rating: Good
This just in: DPS wants to have cake and eat it.
#15 Apr 07 2011 at 2:13 AM Rating: Good
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Yay, goodies for my protadin every single time I queue up for a heroic.
#16 Apr 07 2011 at 2:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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Also, we don't have 'Call to Arms: DPS' implemented at this moment as we don't see the need to implement it. Should you ever experience DPS being Called to arms, the game will crash. However, we don't expect this to happen.

Yours sincerely,
the devs
#17 Apr 07 2011 at 3:34 AM Rating: Good
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Unless I didn't read it correctly, my big concern is multi role classes (paladin, druid, dk, warrior...).
What if I am normally dps and don't know how to tank, but since tanks are lacking, I just dualspec and sign up as tank.
Gear is bad (but I have i350 as dps so I can join heroics), skills are bad, and yet I sign up as tank to avoid long queues and have a chance to get rewards.

If I failed to understand blizzard post, then I think it's time for an explanation please.

Edited, Apr 7th 2011 5:38am by lostraniero
#18 Apr 07 2011 at 3:43 AM Rating: Good
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lostraniero wrote:
Unless I didn't read it correctly, my big concern is multi role classes (paladin, druid, dk, warrior...).
What if I am normally dps and don't know how to tank, but since tanks are lacking, I just dualspec and sign up as tank.
Gear is bad (but I have i350 as dps so I can join heroics), skills are bad, and yet I sign up as tank to avoid long queues and have a chance to get rewards.
Because this never happens now.




Oh... Wait.
#19 Apr 07 2011 at 4:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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lostraniero wrote:
Unless I didn't read it correctly, my big concern is multi role classes (paladin, druid, dk, warrior...).
What if I am normally dps and don't know how to tank, but since tanks are lacking, I just dualspec and sign up as tank.
Gear is bad (but I have i350 as dps so I can join heroics), skills are bad, and yet I sign up as tank to avoid long queues and have a chance to get rewards.

If I failed to understand blizzard post, then I think it's time for an explanation please.
You have to be good enough to complete the run to get the extra rewards. If your skills and gear are lacking enough, you won't do that.
#20 Apr 07 2011 at 4:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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this makes me happy that I'm getting my tanking set in order for 4.1

good change
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#21 Apr 07 2011 at 5:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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Meh, I doubt extra rewards will cause people to queue up. The issue seems to be that tanking and healing isn't fun anymore, for some classes/people.

I'd work on that before handing out more bling to the few there are. Not that I'm complaining. I'd drag myself through a dungeon as a healer more often if I got a significant bonus. It would have to be worth it, though, because ultimately I play the game for fun and I don't find tanking or healing fun right now.
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#22 Apr 07 2011 at 5:54 AM Rating: Decent
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Mazurah! What server/side do you play on in Rift? I'll go check it out this weekend. (If my PC can handle it, that is >.>)

Edit: Ohwait, this wasn't the Rift vs WoW thread... euh... *whistles*

Edited, Apr 7th 2011 1:59pm by Aethien
#23 Apr 07 2011 at 6:14 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm on Sparklewing (inorite) or whatever the name is. Guardian side.

Don't listen to Teacake, Defiant is emo.

Edit: Orite, let's take it over there.

Edited, Apr 7th 2011 2:15pm by Mazra
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#24 Apr 07 2011 at 6:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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This does nothing to address the reason why people don't want to queue as tanks/healers (which I think is in part to do with how the roles are designed and in part to do with other players attitudes). Maybe the incentive will work for enough people to have an impact on queue times but personally I won't do something I don't enjoy in a game for a chance at a few nice items (my pet collector is a pure dps class and my mount collector is a hybrid but I was planning to try healing with her anyway and whether I do that depends on how much I hate running dungeons as a priest healer, not whether I will get a mount at the end).

I'm really hoping they implement some sort of spec checker in to this, already had a Moonkin try to tank heroic VP (in case you're wondering it didn't work out), not sure if he had a feral spec but he didn't seem inclined to switch when asked to. With an incentive system in place I can see the stupid players being further encouraged to queue as roles which they are simply not equipped to perform (considering there is already the incentive of shorter queue times when queuing as a less popular role).

I think this will have at best little impact for dps queue times and at worst an increase in the number of failed runs when people queue for roles they have no idea how to do.
#25 Apr 07 2011 at 6:44 AM Rating: Decent
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Mazra wrote:
I'm on Sparklewing (inorite) or whatever the name is. Guardian side.

Don't listen to Teacake, Defiant is emo.
Regardless of your side, I don't think you can be emo if you're on Sparklewing.
#26 Apr 07 2011 at 6:53 AM Rating: Decent
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The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Mazra wrote:
I'm on Sparklewing (inorite) or whatever the name is. Guardian side.

Don't listen to Teacake, Defiant is emo.
Regardless of your side, I don't think you can be emo if you're on Sparklewing.

Edward Cullen begs to differ.
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