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Luck of the Draw changesFollow

#1 Feb 04 2011 at 1:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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TL:DR =

Luck of the Draw buff is going to be 5% per person; max of 15%.

Also the old +5% buff hasn't been working in many cases. Smiley: facepalm

Blizz wrote:
In case you aren't already aware, Luck of the Draw is the name of the buff you get for grouping with random people using Dungeon Finder. It currently provides a 5% buff to damage, healing, and health if you have at least one random player in your group. With patch 4.0.6, we are increasing this buff to 5% damage, healing, and health per random player, up to a maximum of 15%.

In the process of working on this change we actually discovered that the Luck of the Draw buff has not been working in Cataclysm at all, save for a few specific dungeons. This means that the difficulty in almost all normal and Heroic dungeons for those using the Dungeon Finder tool was higher than expected. Still, with that issue corrected in 4.0.6, we feel the bump up to 15% for three or more random players found through the Dungeon Finder is a necessary change.

The intent of Luck of the Draw is to help make up for the lack of coordination, communication, and familiarity that pick up groups suffer relative to organized groups of guild members and friends. Cataclysm dungeons, especially on Heroic mode, are quite challenging and ask for more group organization than the Wrath of the Lich King dungeons did. Therefore, Luck of the Draw became relatively weaker in Cataclysm. I'm painting the picture with unfairly large brush strokes here, but in general, Heroic dungeons are of appropriate difficulty for organized groups, but just brutal on Dungeon Finder groups. Players wonder, and rightly so, why Dungeon Finder supports Cataclysm Heroic dungeons at all when the chance of success is so low.

We think buffing Luck of the Draw is a good way to go about correcting the difficulty differences because it makes things slightly easier on PUGs without depriving the organized groups of a fun challenge. We also think the bonus is modest enough that it won't encourage organized groups to split up and just PUG instead - - the success rate for PUGs relative to organized groups is just that far behind. We still think you'll have more fun and a greater chance of success running dungeons with friends, but when that isn’t possible, we hope this change will make Dungeon Finder a more pleasant experience. Also remember that patch 4.0.6 is adjusting the difficulty of some bosses that are particularly unforgiving, such as Ozruk in Heroic Stonecore, though to be fair, we are buffing some underperforming encounters as well. In addition, we are offering larger Justice Point rewards for players who just prefer the faster pace and greater success rate of normal dungeons, and by the time 4.1 comes out everyone will have access to more powerful gear, making the older content even easier. But then there'll be new challenges to face!


I can't say I've been worried about things in normals, but for you guys doing heriocs, how do you feel about an extra 10% to your leetness? I'm a bit concenred personally. When the buff hit +15% in ICC it really started to break a lot of the mechanics, in my mind at least. You stopped avoiding stuff and started healing through it, things just got more tank-n-spank.

Anyway, thoughts?
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#2 Feb 04 2011 at 1:28 PM Rating: Good
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Pretty good change i guess. I hit exalted yesterday with all the dungeon factions so i'm really only going to be running one per day for the VP anyway and that will usually be with the guild. But this change will still help to make those occasional pugs more painless. For people who regularly pug i imagine it will be a godsend.
#3 Feb 04 2011 at 1:29 PM Rating: Good
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Might just renew my subscription.

Random heroics are frustrating and if they continue to be so, I'll have no incentive to play the game. This might just make them enjoyable for people like me.
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#4 Feb 04 2011 at 2:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:

I can't say I've been worried about things in normals, but for you guys doing heriocs, how do you feel about an extra 10% to your leetness? I'm a bit concenred personally. When the buff hit +15% in ICC it really started to break a lot of the mechanics, in my mind at least. You stopped avoiding stuff and started healing through it, things just got more tank-n-spank.

Anyway, thoughts?

In a heroic PuG where at best you have two pairs of friends and one random, by the time experience allows confidence that all five people react properly to instagibs and gear - regardless of any static buff - allows the group to basically ignore non-instagib mechanics, this content will be about to be retired for the next content patch. At which time the cycle will begin again with new mechanics and a higher gear requirement for facerolling.

So, no, I think this is actually a quite elegant proposal, it helps only the groups that really need it. And if random PuG survivability is more than a faint possibility, those of us who avoid them now might dip toes in more, further buffing the player pool.
#5 Feb 04 2011 at 2:49 PM Rating: Good
There have been times when a complete PuG has gone perfectly smooth, with good communication and few if any wipes. Those are pretty few and far between though, so I think this is a good change for now. I hope once the next tier is released they remove it though, as it'll probably make things too easy at that point.
#6 Feb 04 2011 at 2:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
I hope once the next tier is released they remove it though, as it'll probably make things too easy at that point.

<Chairman>If my memory serves me correctly</Chairman>, only current-tier heroics will give VP for the daily. I have no idea where I heard it or how it might work, but I picked it up somewhere.
#7 Feb 04 2011 at 3:03 PM Rating: Good
Really? So when the next tier releases and they might possibly release a new heroic or two, only those will give out VP from the random heroic, not any of the current ones? That's weird...
#8 Feb 04 2011 at 3:05 PM Rating: Good
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ElMuneco wrote:

<Chairman>If my memory serves me correctly</Chairman>, only current-tier heroics will give VP for the daily. I have no idea where I heard it or how it might work, but I picked it up somewhere.

For some reason, even knowing what a chairman is, that quote came off as a Mega Man Boss sorta thing.

CHAIR MAN! HE... well... um.... he SITS DOWN!
#9 Feb 04 2011 at 3:33 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
<Chairman>If my memory serves me correctly</Chairman>, only current-tier heroics will give VP for the daily. I have no idea where I heard it or how it might work, but I picked it up somewhere.

They're probably talking about expansions, not raid tiers. Blizz doesn't want people running wrath heroics in 5 minutes for free VP. I imagine that when the next raid tier hits you'll still be able to get VP from all the current 85 heroics and not just the 1-3 new ones that might be added.
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#10 Feb 04 2011 at 3:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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jaysgsl wrote:
ElMuneco wrote:

<Chairman>If my memory serves me correctly</Chairman>, only current-tier heroics will give VP for the daily. I have no idea where I heard it or how it might work, but I picked it up somewhere.

For some reason, even knowing what a chairman is, that quote came off as a Mega Man Boss sorta thing.

CHAIR MAN! HE... well... um.... he SITS DOWN!

Heh.

To unpack the reference a little, that's one of the taglines of Chairman Kaga in the imitated-but-never-quite-equalled Iron Chef. Kaga is one of the rare breed of actors (Alan Rickman is another) who can act convincingly or overact flamboyantly as the role requires.

As for the topic, I know that during the discussions of tiering leading up to Cataclysm, Blizzard wanted to strike a balance where older content was not obsolete but current content was not skippable. So for a T12 raid, you'd need T11 raids or T12 heroics - T11 heroics, now more easily puggable, would be a reasonable bridge into T12 content, so that people condemned to pugging still have options, and alts have a progression path that doesn't force boosting.
#11 Feb 04 2011 at 3:50 PM Rating: Good
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I think it's a good change, but it has a lot of potential to be BORING in 6 months.

If at Launch + 6 months the general population has not figured things out - they really ought to leave. But I was in a Stonecore last night - Very nice group, but the tank had simply never done it on Heroic. He was well geared and did all the right things, but he just didn't know how to avoid the slams/stuns/shatters of the 3rd boss. It took about 7 attempts (We only lost the healer, who was frustrated and quit) but we got him down.

While it was fun to see him progress as he learned - it was also annoying that my guild could have explained it in maybe 1 wipe, while on vent, and all talking/coordinating things like CDs... "Hey, I'm still stunned, can you HoP me?" Or "We are using a Paly tank, since he doesn't have a Charge mechanic please make sure to do your best to help (read not ***** up) positioning"

That type of coordination in a PuG just won't exist for months.


However, in 6 months, when I'm wearing mostly Epic pieces and the encounter is relatively easy, an extra 15% could turn "Relatively Easy" in to "Trivial" - I hope they keep it for a short period, but remove it before it becomes a problem.
#12 Feb 04 2011 at 3:57 PM Rating: Decent
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ElMuneco wrote:

To unpack the reference a little, that's one of the taglines of Chairman Kaga in the imitated-but-never-quite-equalled Iron Chef. Kaga is one of the rare breed of actors (Alan Rickman is another) who can act convincingly or overact flamboyantly as the role requires.

Oh, THAT Chairman! There's just so many chair people in this world.
I used to love Iron Chef as a kid, but I can't get into any show with Bobby Flake on it, so the American one isn't in my vocabulary of shows, despite having my two favorite cooking celebrities: Alton Brown and The Chairman.
Alan Rickman does amazing voice acting, I've only seen him in one live action role in Harry Potter, which he doesn't do terrible at.

As for the new buff to Luck of the Draw, I think it's just what people need. As you add more pugs, it gets less difficult. I actually was under the assumption when it first came out that it was going to work that way.
#13 Feb 04 2011 at 4:32 PM Rating: Good
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Borsuk wrote:
I think it's a good change, but it has a lot of potential to be BORING in 6 months.


I'm fairly certain the current heroics will be boring in six months with and without the buff. I find them boring right now. In fact, I've never found them not boring.

Like I mentioned in the other thread, heroics being challenging doesn't necessarily mean they're not boring. Wiping over and over and over again is boring. Running a dungeon without being rewarded for it is boring.

To me.

Effort and reward goes hand in hand, in my opinion. If they want to make the heroics not boring, they need to make them less frustrating to run as a PUG, so that the reward feels worth the effort. The buff is a step in the right direction. Now they just need to make Druid tanking something other than a mind-numbingly boring role. And I don't mean adding cutesy, gimmicky abilities that we'll never use, or taking away half our abilities in an attempt at making our rotation more "interesting" (fail).

Give me some utility for god's sake. Or at least some AOE that doesn't lock out CC for six seconds.

Edited, Feb 4th 2011 11:33pm by Mazra
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#14 Feb 05 2011 at 1:45 PM Rating: Decent
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What Mazra said pretty much. I think its a step in the right direction. Boring is spending 2-3 hours with a clueless PUG trying to clear something that MIGHT reward you with a blue item. That is of course if the whole group don't just fall apart.

Just like night I decided to punish myself again while playing my mage. Joined a random heroic and got DM. First pull tank just rushes in, healer can't keep him healed he dies then the rest of us does (This tank only had 115k hp so prob not geared anyways). Tank leaves and 1 dps leaves. Ten minutes later we get a new tank and a new dps. Get to the bouncers at the first boss and tank dies healer OOM. Tank leaves and about 5 min later we get another. Take the two bouncers down and get to first boss. Three wipes later healer leaves, tank leaves, other 2 dps leave. About an hour and a half and nothing but a repair bill to show for it. Don't know what the problem was, prob lack of DPS since my mage is only 331IL and I was between 1 and 2 on the dps (7-8k on boss).

None of the tanks would even give me a chance to CC, nobody would take a moment to explain fight. Problem each time was healer was OOM though and healer "claims" to run heroics all the time with no issue.

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#15 Feb 05 2011 at 8:51 PM Rating: Decent
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You've only seen Alan Rickman do one live acting thing? In Harry Potter? Really?

How about the bad guy in Die Hard. Come on now, I'm not THAT old, am I?
#16 Feb 05 2011 at 9:15 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm not a Bruce Willis fan, so I never got around to seeing Die Hard 1-89.
Most curious he's in it though. May be worth watching, someday, if I'm totally bored and the movie store is completely out of movies.
Though I'm suspicious you watch Top Gear on BBC right now *looks*

Edited, Feb 5th 2011 8:15pm by jaysgsl
#17 Feb 05 2011 at 9:34 PM Rating: Good
I "discovered" Alan Rickman from Harry Potter, but since then I've re-watched other movies and gone "OMG it's Professor Snape!" Dogma obviously, but Die Hard was a recent one around Christmas when my boyfriend and I were helping set up the surround sound for my parents in their basement. He looks really hot in that movie too... no wrinkles and a sexy beard. =x
#18 Feb 05 2011 at 9:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Well, in fairness, only the first Die Hard was really good. The 2nd one was meh and after that it just became silly. But the first one: epic and classic in every sense of the words.
#19 Feb 06 2011 at 12:57 AM Rating: Good
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Tavarde wrote:
You've only seen Alan Rickman do one live acting thing? In Harry Potter? Really?
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#20 Feb 06 2011 at 4:44 AM Rating: Good
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Tavarde wrote:
You've only seen Alan Rickman do one live acting thing? In Harry Potter? Really?

How about the bad guy in Die Hard. Come on now, I'm not THAT old, am I?


I liked him as the Sherrif of Nottingham in the Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves movie.

"That's my wife, Crone!"

He's a great villain actor.

Edited, Feb 6th 2011 10:44am by arthoriuss
#21 Feb 06 2011 at 2:24 PM Rating: Good
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If you like Westerns and Tom Selleck, might I suggest Quigley Down Under for another Alan Rickman movie?
#22 Feb 07 2011 at 12:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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arthoriuss wrote:
He's a great villain actor.

Great period. Along with the aforementioned "Galaxy Quest", he was a lot of fun as the herald of the Almighty and voice of the one true God in "Dogma". But what's really striking to me is his ability to convincingly be neither a hero nor a villain, as in "The January Man" or "Truly Madly Deeply" (which I didn't like as much as I probably should have).
#23 Feb 18 2011 at 9:54 PM Rating: Decent
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jeebus. it's like they give you an entire tier upgrade just for taking a random group.
#24 Feb 21 2011 at 11:48 AM Rating: Good
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Eh, with my current gear level, Heroics are already just a 30 minutes to 1 hour thing to get my VPs...
If I get a decent tank, we dont need CCs and we go for a 30 minutes run. If I get a dumb/undergeared one, CCs and 1 hour run.
Havent wiped in a long time. Though last time I did H-Deadmines, it bugged out on the last part of Vanessa. Every mob just stopped in air and started evading and never reseted. We had to requeue for another.
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