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Cataclysm Closed Beta Key Contest List of WinnersFollow

#52 Aug 02 2010 at 6:57 PM Rating: Good
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Newbie who is butthurt about not winning the contest wrote:
all seems a bit biased to me, said was giving away free beta keys, seems to have only gone to older memebers rahter than newbies

lolwut? Out of that list of 50 names, there are 4 that I recognize as regular contributors to these forums. Maybe some others will recognize more, because I'm not here as much as some of them.
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#53 Aug 02 2010 at 7:03 PM Rating: Good
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SquirrelsER wrote:
all seems a bit biased to me, said was giving away free beta keys, seems to have only gone to older memebers rahter than newbies


You're just sadface because you didn't win. If you had actually read this thread, you'd see that most of the "older" posters are sadface that so few "older" posters won a beta key.
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#54 Aug 02 2010 at 7:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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SquirrelsER wrote:
all seems a bit biased to me, said was giving away free beta keys, seems to have only gone to older memebers rahter than newbies



...you have much to learn young grasshopper... you must needs visit the termite dens for an education. I bid you godspeed, adieu and well... adieu.Smiley: grin
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#55 Aug 02 2010 at 7:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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SquirrelsER wrote:
all seems a bit biased to me, said was giving away free beta keys, seems to have only gone to older memebers rahter than newbies

People already responded to this, but I'll just say what everyone is thinking but too nice to say.

This is because you're a moron.
#56 Aug 02 2010 at 7:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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I agree that the contest wasn't handled in the most optimal way to make everyone happy, but I don't think they could make everyone happy. Blizzard likely gave Zam the keys expecting them to give them away in contests - games of chance - and that's what they did. That means that they couldn't have been biased about who they gave the keys too based on posts or contribution. That's purely conjecture, though. I'm not sure what terms and conditions the keys were given out under.

That said, am I upset that the majority of winners were one time posters who wanted only to get a key and get the hell out? Damn right I am. And am I completely rabid over the few ungrateful posters who did win, and their second post ever was "weres mah key"? You better @#%^ing believe it.

But at the same time... fair is fair. What if they had given the keys to only long-time posters? It would have helped the forums, sure, but would it have brought more users to the site? Would it have put attention on an aging and increasingly neglected corner of the internet? Probably not. It might have even cast some negative attention and much drama when some posters weren't selected for one reason or another. What about if you thought your posts were excellent, but weren't selected? Would you be up in arms?

And what about the honestly intelligent, thoughtful people who simply hadn't stumbled upon here early enough to have enough posts to qualify for the contest? The Theos, teacakes, and Mazras (to pick a few at random) of the internet that weren't here for long enough to qualify, if they were here at all. If the contest was random, at least those people had a chance.

And that was really the only fair way to do this. If the moderators kept careful track of every individual's posts and noted who had contributions of significance and selected based on that, then there would always be the suspicion of mod favoritism, bribing, favoring subscribers, etc. It's like Two-Face said in the Dark Knight, "...the only morality in a cruel world is chance. Unbiased. Unprejudiced. Fair." Granted, he was a raving nuthouse, but his point is true. As long as the human equation is there, there would be suspicion of something less than fair going on.

Chance was the only completely fair way to go about things. I don't think that there was a truly good way, honestly. Almost any way I can think of would have left a sour taste in my mouth, just like what happened today.

It sucks, but that's the only way to do it. Just my two cents.

Edit: fixed a couple typos.

Edited, Aug 3rd 2010 12:48pm by IDrownFish
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#57 Aug 02 2010 at 7:51 PM Rating: Good
The real question is how many of the winners are gold sellers or peeps that'll simply ebay the key?
#58 Aug 02 2010 at 7:59 PM Rating: Excellent
SquirrelsER wrote:
all seems a bit biased to me, said was giving away free beta keys, seems to have only gone to older memebers rahter than newbies


you are hilarious
#59 Aug 02 2010 at 8:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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IDrownFish wrote:
I agree that the contest wasn't handled in the most optimal way to make everyone happy, but I don't think they could make everyone happy. Blizzard likely game Zam the keys expecting them to give them away in contests - games of chance - and that's what they did. That means that they couldn't have been biased about who they gave the keys too based on posts or contribution. That's purely conjecture, though. I'm not sure what terms and conditions the keys were given out under.

That said, am I upset that the majority of winners were one time posters who wanted only to get a key and get the hell out? Damn right I am. And am I completely rabid over the few ungrateful posters who did win, and their second post ever was "weres mah key"? You better @#%^ing believe it.

But at the same time... fair is fair. What if they had given the keys to only long-time posters? It would have helped the forums, sure, but would it have brought more users to the site? Would it have put attention on an aging and increasingly neglected corner of the internet? Probably not. It might have even cast some negative attention and much drama when some posters weren't selected for one reason or another. What about if you thought your psts were excellent, but weren't selected? Would you be up in arms?

And what about the honestly intelligent, thoughtful people who simply hadn't stumbled upon here early enough to have enough posts to qualify for the contest? The Theos, teacakes, and Mazras (to pick a few at random) of the internet that weren't here for long enough to qualify, if they were here at all. If the contest was random, at least those people had a chance.

And that was really the only fair way to do this. If the moderators kept careful track of every individual's posts and noted who had contributions of significance and selected based on that, then there would always be the suspicion of mod favoritism, bribing, favoring subscribers, etc. It's like Two-Face said in the Dark Knight, "...the only morality in a cruel world is chance. Unbiased. Unprejudiced. Fair." Granted, he was a raving nuthouse, but his point is true. As long as the human equation is there, there would be suspicion of something less than fair going on.

Chance was the only completely fair way to go about things. I don't think that there was a truly good way, honestly. Almost any way I can think of would have left a sour taste in my mouth, just like what happened today.

It sucks, but that's the only way to do it. Just my two cents.


People were mainly suggesting that 10-15 were set aside for "long time zam posters". That would still leave 35-40 keys for the newer posts. I don't think you understood that they were saying those could have been completely random people. It shouldn't have been the same guidelines/rule, but there just should have been a few keys for people that frequent the site on a regular basis.

All of our suggestions are irrelevant, because that's not how the contest was held. However, most of us think it would have been nice to see people that we know would report back to the site with information about Cataclysm.
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#60 Aug 02 2010 at 8:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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...meh, it's said and done... no, I'm still not bitter Smiley: bah and wish those lowlifes fundamental forum contributors and genuine posters that are only starting their new Allakhazam ZAM posting initiative movement because of the Cataclysm beta key good will. May you have great and good luck and be careful... it's hurricane season!Smiley: sly
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#61 Aug 02 2010 at 8:22 PM Rating: Good
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Too bad content of the post didn't matter.
#62 Aug 02 2010 at 8:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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Feyras wrote:
People were mainly suggesting that 10-15 were set aside for "long time zam posters". That would still leave 35-40 keys for the newer posts. I don't think you understood that they were saying those could have been completely random people. It shouldn't have been the same guidelines/rule, but there just should have been a few keys for people that frequent the site on a regular basis.

All of our suggestions are irrelevant, because that's not how the contest was held. However, most of us think it would have been nice to see people that we know would report back to the site with information about Cataclysm.


No, I get what they were saying. But even still, you run into the same issues as making the entire contest based on who would be likely to contribute. The 10-15 people would always be suspect for the whole mod favoritism thing.

And even if they did set aside a number of keys for the contest - ignoring for argument's sake the mod favoritism and negative publicity issues - then what mod is there that knows the community well enough to know who would contribute or not? Would they have to go back and check the posters' entire histories and thoroughly research the candidates? Would they have to tell them that contributing is a condition for receiving a key? And how would they select the posters? Who would be more likely to contribute? Would they pick Gurus only? Premium Gurus only? Sages with an average rating above a certain level? Randomly among the "best" posters? Those with a high post count?

It opens a can of worms that no human wants to deal with. On top of it, the keys are just as likely to be squandered on posters who won't use it/don't care enough about posting as they are to be given to people who would contribute. I maintain my stance that 100% random was the only fair way.

I still hate it, but view it as the lesser of the evils.

Edit: hur dur, I've been using the internet for how long? And I still can't get formatting right? Damn.

Edited, Aug 2nd 2010 10:27pm by IDrownFish
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#63 Aug 02 2010 at 8:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well, I just got back from an epic 100Km kayak trip over the long weekend, and am currently installing the beta. I'll be more then happy to answer any questions people have, I'll likely start off with my druid and hunter and play around with that. If any of you have any requests, let me know.
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#64 Aug 02 2010 at 8:24 PM Rating: Good
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Russtle wrote:
The real question is how many of the winners are gold sellers or peeps that'll simply ebay the key?


You know, I actually considered that as I sat there watching TV. I thought to myself I could probably get a decent bang for my buck for it (giggity). But then I remembered that I made a promise to friends that I would describe anything cool I found in the beta if I got in and they would do the same if they got in. Not to say that the money wouldn't have been very nice to have, I find being the in beta more enjoyable. That is not to say that some of the other people will not try to sell the key but more as a way to say at least one of the key's will be used as intended.

Sorry started rambling and I am too lazy to go back through that and cut out the crap that doesn't need to be there.
#65 Aug 02 2010 at 8:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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IDrownFish wrote:
And even if they did set aside a number of keys for the contest - ignoring for argument's sake the mod favoritism and negative publicity issues - then what mod is there that knows the community well enough to know who would contribute or not? Would they have to go back and check the posters' entire histories and thoroughly research the candidates? Would they have to tell them that contributing is a condition for receiving a key? And how would they select the posters? Who would be more likely to contribute? Would they pick Gurus only? Premium Gurus only? Sages with an average rating above a certain level? Randomly among the "best" posters? Those with a high post count?

Just do a poll. Make it five beta keys, do a poll every day with runoffs, and the winners of these five polls will be the ones to receive keys. We sure as hell know which posters will contribute the most.
#66 Aug 02 2010 at 8:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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Majivo wrote:
IDrownFish wrote:
And even if they did set aside a number of keys for the contest - ignoring for argument's sake the mod favoritism and negative publicity issues - then what mod is there that knows the community well enough to know who would contribute or not? Would they have to go back and check the posters' entire histories and thoroughly research the candidates? Would they have to tell them that contributing is a condition for receiving a key? And how would they select the posters? Who would be more likely to contribute? Would they pick Gurus only? Premium Gurus only? Sages with an average rating above a certain level? Randomly among the "best" posters? Those with a high post count.

Just do a poll. Make it five beta keys, do a poll every day with runoffs, and the winners of these five polls will be the ones to receive keys. We sure as hell know which posters will contribute the most.


Hm. I'll admit, I hadn't thought of that.

The more I think about it, the more I can't find a problem with it. I like that idea. I like that idea a lot. After all, who knows better about the community, than the community?

I'm pretty sure something like that would work, and I hope the mods read this in case Zam decides to do something like this contest the next time an expansion rolls around. The problem with my method of thinking was that I was thinking about what the mods could do to make it better for the community, not what the community could do to make it better for the community.

That solution is actually pretty elegant in its implementation. If the mods would always be in suspicion for handpicking who they liked, then let the players decide for themselves. If people are honest, which they usually are online as one positive aspect of the Greater Internet ******* Theory, then only the best would recieve keys. It has potential for a small amount of dramalolz, but then again, so does every contest with prizes like this.
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#67 Aug 02 2010 at 9:00 PM Rating: Good
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In reaction to Fishman's post;

To be honest, they could just have demanded a, say, 50 post minimum to be eligible? That way it's not like you're completely shutting newbies out, and it prevents 90% of these one-time posters from running off with a key.
#68 Aug 02 2010 at 9:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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IDrownFish wrote:
Majivo wrote:
Just do a poll. Make it five beta keys, do a poll every day with runoffs, and the winners of these five polls will be the ones to receive keys. We sure as hell know which posters will contribute the most.


Hm. I'll admit, I hadn't thought of that.

The more I think about it, the more I can't find a problem with it. I like that idea. I like that idea a lot. After all, who knows better about the community, than the community?


This. People who got voted in could always pass it on to the next guy in case they didn't want it. They even could have done separate polls for each class, to make sure each class forum got a key.

Anything would have been better (or more efficient and meaningful) than the 140-page swarm of failure that descended upon us. Talk about waste of time.

Edited, Aug 3rd 2010 5:11am by Mazra
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#69 Aug 02 2010 at 9:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mazra wrote:
IDrownFish wrote:
Majivo wrote:
Just do a poll. Make it five beta keys, do a poll every day with runoffs, and the winners of these five polls will be the ones to receive keys. We sure as hell know which posters will contribute the most.


Hm. I'll admit, I hadn't thought of that.

The more I think about it, the more I can't find a problem with it. I like that idea. I like that idea a lot. After all, who knows better about the community, than the community?


This. People who got voted in could always pass it on to the next guy in case they didn't want it. They even could have done separate polls for each class, to make sure each class forum got a key.

Anything would have been better (or more efficient and meaningful) than the 140-page swarm of failure that descended upon us. Talk about waste of time.

Edited, Aug 3rd 2010 5:11am by Mazra

I agree; they really should have set aside a key for each individual forum (general, tradeskills, and each individual class) and let the posters nominate/choose a person in a thread in that forum. That would take up 12 keys. Give out another 3—so the top 3 vote-getters in General, and top 2 in tradeskills—would get beta keys and allow them to have a sticky thread to post information in.

That's something that really no site has. MMO-Champion has a lot of information, but it's difficult to go there and ask for pertinent information to your class alone.

Whereas here, you could get someone to find out fairly quickly.

It just troubles me that the moderators don't think of growing the community first. These kinds of opportunities are why MMO-Champion and Wowhead are so big and so used.
#70 Aug 02 2010 at 9:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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I have no reason to respond with a witty remark, individuality nor even smart-***-ism. This just seriously isn't the gaming forum I logged into years ago. Apparently "ZAM" cares not a twit about its' members, subscribers, nor those who log in everyday to see the smartarse remarks that others make... you're a robot... I say head back to Windhurst on your lonely gold/gil-selling taru and **** the closest taru next to you... with your damaged and fishing up rusty *** **** fishing pole. ...oh yeah... my favorite zam-mote that will speak for me... Smiley: motz

...forgive me for I know not what my other personalities say.Smiley: grin
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#71 Aug 02 2010 at 11:19 PM Rating: Good
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I have only been reading/posting on this site for about 2 years now, which isn't very long, but long enough to be able to pick out names of fairly active members and I only recognized one. There might be others from specific class forums but I would figure if you posted in class forums you would post in general/tradskills also.

So I am pretty disappointed to not many more "older" members picked. I think the rules and regulations could be been a bit clearer in the beginning. I think a lot of people thought that content was going to be taken into consideration. Though I can understand with what 7000 posts or so it would be really difficult to try and read through and pick 50 names based on content which is why they probably went random.

I think something like back when they had a contest for winning some game cards and such where you had to have 5 posts in that day to be considered, incorporating something like that where maybe the posters had to at least contribute to ZAM before being considered, like they could post their response to "what their favorite thing is" but also have to contribute maybe 20-25 posts during the week to qualify for an entry.

Just my 2 cents.
#72 Aug 03 2010 at 5:47 AM Rating: Good
Does this mean I have to start kicking now?
#73 Aug 03 2010 at 6:13 AM Rating: Good
Grats Xsarus. There have also been many many lols in this thread, from people who are retarded. Good job on the stupidity, you guys. Smiley: thumbsup
#74 Aug 03 2010 at 8:43 AM Rating: Good
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Random is fair - as long as they did their best to disqualify people who created more than one avatar to enter with. It would have been nice to reserve 20 or so of the 50 for a random drawing from people who were members of the site prior to the start of the contest and leave the rest open to encourage people to come to the site. I see how the contest does bring newcomers to look at the site and am hoping that a few of them stay around but it would be nice to see people who have spent a lot of time on the site to get a little love back too.

I kind of figured I wouldn't win one when I found it was going to be simply random instead of content-based so I wasn't counting on winning anyways. Besides, I got something better than a Beta key last night when I got me a ZG raptor!!! :D
#75 Aug 03 2010 at 10:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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IDrownFish wrote:
Would they pick Gurus only? Premium Gurus only?


That would be absolutely unfair and biased. Terrible terrible idea... Although, I'm having an awful hard time saying no to it... Smiley: tongue

Actually the thing I found rather nice about the way it was done are the couple of people who were "long-time lurkers" that came out to post and what not. While they haven't been contributing to the forum with plenty +1, it's still nice to know that some of the silent community here had a chance to win.

I guess it just puts more pressure on Criminy and Xsarus to post lots of beta stuff! Smiley: grin
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#76 Aug 03 2010 at 11:06 AM Rating: Good
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Just an FYI, although I'll answer any questions I can on wow general I'm going to focus my beta testing on the two classes I have at 80 that I've copied over, so see the class forums for that (hunter and druid). I can probably do specific testing on the other classes if someone wants me to, but I haven't played any past 50-60 so there would be a learning curve.
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