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Equipment Manager - Pulled from 3.1Follow

#1 Apr 03 2009 at 9:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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According to Bornakk, the Equipment Manager that was slated to be released in patch 3.1 will not be going live. It appears as though there were too many issues associated with it at this current time that could not be fixed before the patch was released.

Bornakk wrote:
Certain issues were encountered with the upcoming Equipment Manager that could not be resolved in time for release with the next content update, patch 3.1. In order to ensure that this feature meets our standard of quality, we will be taking some extra time with the Equipment Manager and it will instead be released some time after patch 3.1. We understand that this feature is a widely anticipated addition and apologize for this minor delay.
(-Source-)

Could this mean that 3.1 is imminent? Possibly, possibly not.

Edited, Apr 3rd 2009 1:36pm by cafeen
#2 Apr 03 2009 at 9:25 AM Rating: Decent
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2,101 posts
cafeen wrote:
According to Bornakk, the Equipment Manager that was slated to be released in patch 3.1 will not be going live. It appears as though there were too many issues associated with it at this current time that could not be fixed before the patch was released.

Bornakk wrote:
Certain issues were encountered with the upcoming Equipment Manager that could not be resolved in time for release with the next content update, patch 3.1. In order to ensure that this feature meets our standard of quality, we will be taking some extra time with the Equipment Manager and it will instead be released some time after patch 3.1. We understand that this feature is a widely anticipated addition and apologize for this minor delay.
(-Source-)

Could this mean that 3.1 is imminent? Possibly, possibly not.

Edit - Link the quote, not the URL idiot!

Edited, Apr 3rd 2009 1:18pm by cafeen


This is what I don't understand. There are perfectly working equipment managers out there, closetgnome, outfitter, and another one that I can't remember the name of right now.

Why can't the developers put a lid on their programming ego, get the code for these add-ons and put them in the game, give the add-on creators some credit, hell even some compensation for their work and put the add-on into the game.

Instead, they develop their own interface options and we get less than stellar, and severly limited things like the scrolling battle text, the threat meter, and the calendar.

Oh and cafeen your source link goes to your other post about 3.1 builds.



Edited, Apr 3rd 2009 1:27pm by SynnTastic
#3 Apr 03 2009 at 9:27 AM Rating: Decent
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3,829 posts
cafeen wrote:

Could this mean that 3.1 is imminent? Possibly, possibly not.

Edited, Apr 3rd 2009 1:23pm by cafeen



If they plan to do Noblegarden at Easter, then 3.1 has to happen this coming week. Otherwise, they need to reschedule Noblegarden, and that hasn't happened according to my game calendar.


#4 Apr 03 2009 at 9:29 AM Rating: Good
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2,101 posts
Ambrya wrote:
cafeen wrote:

Could this mean that 3.1 is imminent? Possibly, possibly not.

Edited, Apr 3rd 2009 1:23pm by cafeen



If they plan to do Noblegarden at Easter, then 3.1 has to happen this coming week. Otherwise, they need to reschedule Noblegarden, and that hasn't happened according to my game calendar.




They already have decided to postpone that event. MMO Champion

Quote:
Many players may have noticed that Noblegarden has been removed from the in-game calendar. While the event is not being removed from the game, it is being delayed slightly and will not occur as originally scheduled on April, 12. We will be implementing this event at a future date, however.

There have been many additions made to the event including a change to the length of which the event runs (1 week) and additional content for players to enjoy. We look forward to sharing this new experience with you.


Edited, Apr 3rd 2009 1:29pm by SynnTastic
#5 Apr 03 2009 at 9:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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1,876 posts
Man, I'm bad at pasting today.

Had copied the Blizzard URL into the quote originally, now I have the wrong URL in the source ><.

Thanks for the heads up!
#6 Apr 03 2009 at 9:33 AM Rating: Good
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2,101 posts
cafeen wrote:
Man, I'm bad at pasting today.

Had copied the Blizzard URL into the quote originally, now I have the wrong URL in the source ><.

Thanks for the heads up!


Don't look now, but another edit is due. Just one of those days huh.
#7 Apr 03 2009 at 9:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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1,876 posts
Yup :(, doing a million different things getting ready to move on top of this ><. (And by doing, I mean putting them off to later as I browse forums and such!)

Nethaera discussing Noblegarden change
Nethaera wrote:
Many players may have noticed that Noblegarden has been removed from the in-game calendar. While the event is not being removed from the game, it is being delayed slightly and will not occur as originally scheduled on April, 12. We will be implementing this event at a future date, however.

There have been many additions made to the event including a change to the length of which the event runs (1 week) and additional content for players to enjoy. We look forward to sharing this new experience with you.


/em crosses his fingers that he did this one right!

edit-- /sigh

Edited, Apr 3rd 2009 1:36pm by cafeen
#8 Apr 03 2009 at 9:37 AM Rating: Decent
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19,369 posts
SynnTastic wrote:
cafeen wrote:
According to Bornakk, the Equipment Manager that was slated to be released in patch 3.1 will not be going live. It appears as though there were too many issues associated with it at this current time that could not be fixed before the patch was released.

Bornakk wrote:
Certain issues were encountered with the upcoming Equipment Manager that could not be resolved in time for release with the next content update, patch 3.1. In order to ensure that this feature meets our standard of quality, we will be taking some extra time with the Equipment Manager and it will instead be released some time after patch 3.1. We understand that this feature is a widely anticipated addition and apologize for this minor delay.
(-Source-)

Could this mean that 3.1 is imminent? Possibly, possibly not.

Edit - Link the quote, not the URL idiot!

Edited, Apr 3rd 2009 1:18pm by cafeen


This is what I don't understand. There are perfectly working equipment managers out there, closetgnome, outfitter, and another one that I can't remember the name of right now.

Why can't the developers put a lid on their programming ego, get the code for these add-ons and put them in the game, give the add-on creators some credit, hell even some compensation for their work and put the add-on into the game.

Instead, they develop their own interface options and we get less than stellar, and severly limited things like the scrolling battle text, the threat meter, and the calendar.

Oh and cafeen your source link goes to your other post about 3.1 builds.



Edited, Apr 3rd 2009 1:27pm by SynnTastic


Because those add-ons use code already in the game. If Blizzard does it right and adds new coding it'll make it better for everyone. Remember Omen threat meter? Think the same thing but with add-ons like outfitter, closetgnome, etc. Yeah it does suck that it won't be available when dual-specs are available but those other add-ons will suffice till then.
#9 Apr 03 2009 at 9:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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2,101 posts
MentalFrog wrote:

Because those add-ons use code already in the game. If Blizzard does it right and adds new coding it'll make it better for everyone. Remember Omen threat meter? Think the same thing but with add-ons like outfitter, closetgnome, etc. Yeah it does suck that it won't be available when dual-specs are available but those other add-ons will suffice till then.


Yeah but the other side of that is this. Omen worked great before the in-game threat meter. Albeit it was off on some things due to not knowing the exact programming mechanics for threat generation, but Omen was available before the in-game threat meter.

If blizzard had went to the developers of Omen(or even KTM, you guys remember that?) and said, "the players love your add-on, and we would like to put it into the UI of the game, we're willing to give you a couple thousand bucks for the copy write". There wouldn't be a need to still use Omen if they had done that.

The point is, the feature is already out there, why reinvent the wheel and then have the distribution of said wheel delayed because it just isn't round enough.
#10 Apr 03 2009 at 9:56 AM Rating: Good
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3,829 posts
SynnTastic wrote:
Ambrya wrote:
cafeen wrote:

Could this mean that 3.1 is imminent? Possibly, possibly not.

Edited, Apr 3rd 2009 1:23pm by cafeen



If they plan to do Noblegarden at Easter, then 3.1 has to happen this coming week. Otherwise, they need to reschedule Noblegarden, and that hasn't happened according to my game calendar.




They already have decided to postpone that event. MMO Champion

Quote:
Many players may have noticed that Noblegarden has been removed from the in-game calendar. While the event is not being removed from the game, it is being delayed slightly and will not occur as originally scheduled on April, 12. We will be implementing this event at a future date, however.

There have been many additions made to the event including a change to the length of which the event runs (1 week) and additional content for players to enjoy. We look forward to sharing this new experience with you.


Edited, Apr 3rd 2009 1:29pm by SynnTastic


Ah, ok, that change must have happened after the last time I checked the calendar.

Edited, Apr 3rd 2009 10:57am by Ambrya
#11 Apr 03 2009 at 10:19 AM Rating: Good
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This leads me to believe that 3.1 will drop on or after April 21.

They have stated they don't want PvE to come out first and this will give arena players a chance to get some gear before the next tier of PvE weapons, amoung other stuff, comes to the Arenas.

Want to bet?
____________________________
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Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
#12 Apr 03 2009 at 10:37 AM Rating: Decent
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13,048 posts
cafeen wrote:
Could this mean that 3.1 is imminent? Possibly, possibly not.

Odds are 3.1 is out on the 14th or 21st. S5 is slated to end on the 14th; that would imply that 3.1 is due then or shortly thereafter, especially if they're pulling features from the patch now.

SynnTastic wrote:
MentalFrog wrote:
Because those add-ons use code already in the game. If Blizzard does it right and adds new coding it'll make it better for everyone. Remember Omen threat meter? Think the same thing but with add-ons like outfitter, closetgnome, etc. Yeah it does suck that it won't be available when dual-specs are available but those other add-ons will suffice till then.

Yeah but the other side of that is this. Omen worked great before the in-game threat meter.

Omen worked great if you updated it every other day.

Now, I haven't seen an Omen update in weeks, if not months.

An in-game equipment manager would only enhance ItemRack, Closetgnome, Outfitter, etc.
#13 Apr 03 2009 at 10:57 AM Rating: Decent
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1,162 posts
Quote:
An in-game equipment manager would only enhance ItemRack, Closetgnome, Outfitter, etc.



How?


I see them as mutually exclusive. Why would you use Itemrack if you have outfitter? Why use any of them if you have it as an integral part of the UI. Maybe I'm missing something here.

Of course if blizz can't make this feature better than what's already available (think voice chat) then most people will stick with their favorite add-on like most guild are still using vent.
#14 Apr 03 2009 at 10:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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19,369 posts
SynnTastic wrote:
MentalFrog wrote:

Because those add-ons use code already in the game. If Blizzard does it right and adds new coding it'll make it better for everyone. Remember Omen threat meter? Think the same thing but with add-ons like outfitter, closetgnome, etc. Yeah it does suck that it won't be available when dual-specs are available but those other add-ons will suffice till then.


Yeah but the other side of that is this. Omen worked great before the in-game threat meter. Albeit it was off on some things due to not knowing the exact programming mechanics for threat generation, but Omen was available before the in-game threat meter.

If blizzard had went to the developers of Omen(or even KTM, you guys remember that?) and said, "the players love your add-on, and we would like to put it into the UI of the game, we're willing to give you a couple thousand bucks for the copy write". There wouldn't be a need to still use Omen if they had done that.

The point is, the feature is already out there, why reinvent the wheel and then have the distribution of said wheel delayed because it just isn't round enough.


Because a wheel is not a wheel. You can't put a donut tire (spare) on a Formula One race car.

Omen was basically guess work. Any little change would change omen. This also meant most the time everyone had to be running the same version or they may or may not be compatible. Omen did not work great. It worked. Blizzard would have never implemented Omen. Why would they? They already had the code already done. Don't believe me? How did the mobs know who to attack based on threat? That information was just public knowledge because of Omen. Don't get me wrong Omen was useful and it probably was the best based on what it had available. It just was poor, a lot due to Blizzard's restrictions.

My whole point here is Blizzard could have easily spent a month or less creating a basic addition to what outfitter and other add-ons already do. Most of it is really simple code (and yes that statement is coming from experience and actually looking at and tweaking some of outfitter's code). There are some limitations to these add-ons. Limitations I'm hoping Blizzard is changing, much like they did with threat. As a result these add-ons will be better and more efficient. My problem is when people just come along and blindly claim that Blizzard should have it done because they can just 'copy pasta' current add-on code. It could be that simple, but Blizzard wouldn't be the company they are if they did that.
#15 Apr 03 2009 at 11:00 AM Rating: Decent
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19,369 posts
feelz wrote:
Quote:
An in-game equipment manager would only enhance ItemRack, Closetgnome, Outfitter, etc.



How?


I see them as mutually exclusive. Why would you use Itemrack if you have outfitter? Why use any of them if you have it as an integral part of the UI. Maybe I'm missing something here.

Of course if blizz can't make this feature better than what's already available (think voice chat) then most people will stick with their favorite add-on like most guild are still using vent.


You actually reading the conversation or just spurting out babble because you see words put together? Who said you would use both? I don't see it as much as Blizzard adding a ui element but more making the code and mechanics behind these add-ons more efficient and with more features.
#16 Apr 03 2009 at 11:18 AM Rating: Decent
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13,048 posts
feelz wrote:
Quote:
An in-game equipment manager would only enhance ItemRack, Closetgnome, Outfitter, etc.



How?


I see them as mutually exclusive. Why would you use Itemrack if you have outfitter? Why use any of them if you have it as an integral part of the UI. Maybe I'm missing something here.

Of course if blizz can't make this feature better than what's already available (think voice chat) then most people will stick with their favorite add-on like most guild are still using vent.

As Mental said, try thinking through my example (more like his) instead of just blurting out the first thought you have.

ItemRack et al will be made better because more of code is internalized in the game and supported by the game, thus will have less code (or more options will be made available to addon developers.
#17 Apr 03 2009 at 11:45 AM Rating: Good
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970 posts
Overlord Theophany wrote:
feelz wrote:
Quote:
An in-game equipment manager would only enhance ItemRack, Closetgnome, Outfitter, etc.



How?


I see them as mutually exclusive. Why would you use Itemrack if you have outfitter? Why use any of them if you have it as an integral part of the UI. Maybe I'm missing something here.

Of course if blizz can't make this feature better than what's already available (think voice chat) then most people will stick with their favorite add-on like most guild are still using vent.

As Mental said, try thinking through my example (more like his) instead of just blurting out the first thought you have.

ItemRack et al will be made better because more of code is internalized in the game and supported by the game, thus will have less code (or more options will be made available to addon developers.

Precisely.

Blizzard will develop a new capability in the game engine, create an interface for it, and publish the interface - which is what they do best.

Addon developers will use the interface, listen to the user community, and iteratively develop a front end that is usable by the maximum number of people, and which includes whatever bells and whistles we players like best as a group - which is what they do best.

Everybody wins.
#18 Apr 03 2009 at 11:50 AM Rating: Decent
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1,162 posts
Sorry,I misunderstood what Theo was saying. I thought he meant that the new feature would act as a complement of already available add-on thus enhancing them while used together.

No need to get hostile, I was just asking for some clarification.
#19 Apr 03 2009 at 12:06 PM Rating: Good
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2,101 posts
MentalFrog wrote:

Because a wheel is not a wheel. You can't put a donut tire (spare) on a Formula One race car.

Omen was basically guess work. Any little change would change omen. This also meant most the time everyone had to be running the same version or they may or may not be compatible. Omen did not work great. It worked. Blizzard would have never implemented Omen. Why would they? They already had the code already done. Don't believe me? How did the mobs know who to attack based on threat? That information was just public knowledge because of Omen. Don't get me wrong Omen was useful and it probably was the best based on what it had available. It just was poor, a lot due to Blizzard's restrictions.

My whole point here is Blizzard could have easily spent a month or less creating a basic addition to what outfitter and other add-ons already do. Most of it is really simple code (and yes that statement is coming from experience and actually looking at and tweaking some of outfitter's code). There are some limitations to these add-ons. Limitations I'm hoping Blizzard is changing, much like they did with threat. As a result these add-ons will be better and more efficient. My problem is when people just come along and blindly claim that Blizzard should have it done because they can just 'copy pasta' current add-on code. It could be that simple, but Blizzard wouldn't be the company they are if they did that.


I get what you're saying, but I'm not understanding Blizz's stand on this. And I think I got myself a little off track from my point talking about how well Omen did or didn't work before.

I mean, taking into account that Omen and KTM had flawed numbers, still what it attempted to offered was great. A meter that showed how close you and everyone else in the raid was to pulling aggro off of the boss. How fast you and everyone else was rising in threat against that mob.

Then blizz introduces their threat meter. Had it mimicked what KTM and Omen attempted to do it would have been great. It should have mimicked what KTM and Omen did. Blizz very easily could have capitalized on a template that was already available and developed an interface that did the exact same thing.

I think everyone anticipated that when they announced an in game threat meter.

Instead, what we got was a watered down version. A version that only visually compares your threat gen against the player with the highest threat. Completely limiting it's functionality, especially on fights like patchwerk where a melee going over an OTs threat could be deadly.

But had Blizzard utilized the template that was already available(Omen and KTM), we wouldn't need them anymore. I mean, yes, Omen and any other threat meter works great now, because it's in sync with the ingame threat meter, but wouldn't it be even better if we wouldn't have to download those add-ons because the game offers that functionality?


Edit: I do see differently than my OP though, I'm seeing your side of them putting in the mechanics to give add-on developers easier and more functional options to develop more concrete and stable add-ons, but I still think that when they implement something like this, they should do it so that an add-on that does the exact same thing shouldn't still be needed.

Edited, Apr 3rd 2009 4:16pm by SynnTastic
#20 Apr 03 2009 at 12:15 PM Rating: Decent
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1,882 posts
As it was explained to me, the equipment manager didn't simply just switch out gear. It STORED alternate gear sets. So you didn't have to take up bank/bag space. I will bet this is where they are experiencing problems.

And yes, I'm guessing this Tuesday is patch day.
#21 Apr 03 2009 at 12:19 PM Rating: Good
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ekaterinodar wrote:
As it was explained to me, the equipment manager didn't simply just switch out gear. It STORED alternate gear sets. So you didn't have to take up bank/bag space. I will bet this is where they are experiencing problems.

And yes, I'm guessing this Tuesday is patch day.


Not likely, see the posts about Arena Season ending. They have stated in several random posts that their intentions for release of the patch will be at or after the end or the arena season. Which would put it somewhere around the 14th or the 21st, baring no unforeseen delays.
#22 Apr 03 2009 at 12:22 PM Rating: Decent
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SynnTastic wrote:
Edit: I do see differently than my OP though, I'm seeing your side of them putting in the mechanics to give add-on developers easier and more functional options to develop more concrete and stable add-ons, but I still think that when they implement something like this, they should do it so that an add-on that does the exact same thing shouldn't still be needed.

The addon isn't needed.

...Unless you want the functionality improved.

That's the way that Blizzard has always gone with their default UI (see unit frames, action bars, raid interface, etc), and it's worked exceptionally well thus far.

It's a good move on their part. If they created the be-all-end-all of gear changing addons, it would require a lot more hours that they could use to work on the next expansion or work on content patches.
#23 Apr 03 2009 at 12:32 PM Rating: Good
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Overlord Theophany wrote:

The addon isn't needed.

...Unless you want the functionality improved.

That's the way that Blizzard has always gone with their default UI (see unit frames, action bars, raid interface, etc), and it's worked exceptionally well thus far.

It's a good move on their part. If they created the be-all-end-all of gear changing addons, it would require a lot more hours that they could use to work on the next expansion or work on content patches.


Well no, needed was a bad word to use. But I see your point, and I think you see mine. I agree with your points as well, and I suspect that is their intentions to create basic models in game and allow the players to develop add-ons based on their personal desires.
#24 Apr 03 2009 at 1:27 PM Rating: Good
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SynnTastic wrote:

I mean, taking into account that Omen and KTM had flawed numbers, still what it attempted to offered was great. A meter that showed how close you and everyone else in the raid was to pulling aggro off of the boss. How fast you and everyone else was rising in threat against that mob.

Then blizz introduces their threat meter. Had it mimicked what KTM and Omen attempted to do it would have been great. It should have mimicked what KTM and Omen did. Blizz very easily could have capitalized on a template that was already available and developed an interface that did the exact same thing.

I think everyone anticipated that when they announced an in game threat meter.

Instead, what we got was a watered down version. A version that only visually compares your threat gen against the player with the highest threat. Completely limiting it's functionality, especially on fights like patchwerk where a melee going over an OTs threat could be deadly.

But had Blizzard utilized the template that was already available(Omen and KTM), we wouldn't need them anymore. I mean, yes, Omen and any other threat meter works great now, because it's in sync with the ingame threat meter, but wouldn't it be even better if we wouldn't have to download those add-ons because the game offers that functionality?

Ever wonder why it was more simplified than Omen and KTM's ui? Because Blizzard, like any good software company, tries to keep their ui as minimal and simplistic as possible. This makes it easier for new end-user's. Adding a threat meter would add more clutter and confusion to players that didn't already use one. At the same time the add-ons that were user created were very useful to those who used them (when they worked). At the same time Blizzard did cater to the end-users who needed this by adding the functionality for add-ons to obtain that information without doing heavy calculations and eyeballing guess work.

Like I said it wasn't so much the new threat add-on, it was the fact that threat was a publicly attainable number for add-ons to use effectively. People assumed Blizzard was just replacing add-ons like Omen. That was never their intent.


SynnTastic wrote:

Edit: I do see differently than my OP though, I'm seeing your side of them putting in the mechanics to give add-on developers easier and more functional options to develop more concrete and stable add-ons, but I still think that when they implement something like this, they should do it so that an add-on that does the exact same thing shouldn't still be needed.
[/i]


Simple is better. There's no reason for a software company to make UI's cluttered and overwhelming for users. However once a user is comfortable with it they should have a good range of customization available to achieve the things they want to do more efficiently. And who said what they're doing is the exact same thing as these other add-ons?


Like I said I think they're going the same route as omen and adding more functionality, code and mechanics behind what these add-ons do and putting out a 'watered' down simplistic version. Why do some users use outfitter? Why don't they all use the same one? I mean they do the same thing don't they?

Edited, Apr 3rd 2009 3:28pm by MentalFrog

Edited, Apr 3rd 2009 3:30pm by MentalFrog
#25 Apr 03 2009 at 10:05 PM Rating: Decent
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1,188 posts
This announcement alone made me think the patch was soon. When I went to open wow just now, I got the "new patch data is available" message, so more stuff has been finalized. I think a week from Tuesday is a VERY safe bet at this point.
#26 Apr 03 2009 at 10:20 PM Rating: Decent
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357 posts
Another thing to note is add-ons became part of the game. You couldn't raid with out a threat meter, you couldn't raid with-out voice chat. Well you could, but they had become such an integral part of the end-game that they were basically required. But what about those people who couldn't use a mod for whatever reason or couldn't put up the extra money for their own vent server? So Blizzard made them part of the official game, not as good as omen or vent but at least everybody gets the basic tools. Add this to the fact that omen was able to greatly increase it's ability due to the new built in threat and you have a win-win for everybody.

Now with duel specs mods like outfitter would be almost required as well so Blizzard was going to introduce the basic tools. The basics would be in the game meaning every one will be able to use it and mods will improve greatly because of it once again making it a win-win situation.

You can use the dumbing down argument about Blizzard but it's basically insuring that everyone has the tools needed for the game, they can and will be improved upon greatly by mods but they don't want a person to have to download a mod in order to play.
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