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Dual-spec Q&AFollow

#27 Feb 12 2009 at 4:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Ambrya wrote:
My concern is that it may limit players ability to learn the other functions of their class until max level. They level up under one spec, and suddenly they have to learn to replay with another spec without the advantage of having had experience with that spec at a lower level. I think it would be more beneficial for players to be able to learn and experience the various facets of their class along the way.


People will get used to it. A disturbingly large chunk of priests have been leveling like that since day 1.

Edit for lulztypos.

Edited, Feb 12th 2009 7:34pm by IDrownFish
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#28 Feb 12 2009 at 6:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Nethaera: What about hunters? Often their pet talents are set up to match the talents of the hunter. Will they be able to switch their pet specs as well?
Ghostcrawler: We will wipe the pet talents. However we are going to remove the respec cost for pet talents so that players won’t feel like they need to jump through an additional hoop to respec their pet. In addition, we are going to provide hunters a new core ability to let them remotely access their stable on a long cooldown. This way if their exotic pet heads off to the stable, they will be able to get a different pet.
I'm wondering about this, if it will be an unfair "penalty" to hunters. I've been MM since I was a wee lad of level 10, almost 4 years ago. Never switched back and forth when one was favored over the other or buffed/nerfed, so not sure how important having an exotic pet is. Though I do switch pets-CC for pvp, dps for instances, and a gorilla for aoe aggro when grinding.

What if a BM hunter wants to duel spec to MM or Surv, one to raid with and one to pvp with, or one to raid with one to do regular pve; grinding/quests etc. Really, that's no different than a priest switching to heal for a raid then back to Shadow to grind, yet it appears that they would still have to go to a town either for the initial switch, or for the after switch, due to the "long CD" whereas, the other classes won't.
#29 Feb 12 2009 at 7:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Pretty cool stuff, but not really any new info.

Good news for my DK, though, being a scribe.
#30 Feb 12 2009 at 7:51 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I'm wondering about this, if it will be an unfair "penalty" to hunters. I've been MM since I was a wee lad of level 10, almost 4 years ago. Never switched back and forth when one was favored over the other or buffed/nerfed, so not sure how important having an exotic pet is. Though I do switch pets-CC for pvp, dps for instances, and a gorilla for aoe aggro when grinding.

What if a BM hunter wants to duel spec to MM or Surv, one to raid with and one to pvp with, or one to raid with one to do regular pve; grinding/quests etc. Really, that's no different than a priest switching to heal for a raid then back to Shadow to grind, yet it appears that they would still have to go to a town either for the initial switch, or for the after switch, due to the "long CD" whereas, the other classes won't.


Yeah, but it is highly, highly unlikely that it would ever REALLY be a problem.

A. 80+% of spec switching will probably occur in towns, where there is always a Stable master.

B. The other 20% will occur mainly in instances. This will mostly be populated by hybrids or healers/tanks switching to meet needs. The only reason a Hunter would need to switch spec inside a raid (hopefully SOMEONE is a scribe) is if he screwed up and forgot to switch his spec/pet when in town. The CD change is to really MAKE it fair for BM Hunters.

I mean, if the Druid forgets his healing gear, he doesn't get a long CD ability to change his current gear for the radically different set in his bank.

It is your responsibility to show up for a raid prepared. Blizz put in a system that would make sure you weren't totally f*cked if you screwed up and didn't stable your Exotic pet, but may no longer use it.

Plus, you will usually return to town after a raid to switch your spec back/get different gear/consumables/your PVP pet ANYWAY before you head into a BG or Arena.
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#31 Feb 13 2009 at 6:00 AM Rating: Good
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fronglo wrote:
This game needs duel spec really bad. I think it will help solve the problem of lack of healers and tanks. Everybody wants to spec as the uber DPS.

One thing I kinda disagree with is only allowing players to do this once they hit max level. Very few players pre 80 will spec anything but DPS for leveling making it very difficult to form a dungeon group. I think they should consider allowing players to do this at lvl 60.


I don't think it is going to solve the problem of lack of tanks and healers as much as you hope. The fact is, most people don't want the responsibility of tanking or healing, so even if they have dual-spec, it still isn't going to entice them to heal. Most of the people I know that play Ret Pally (for example) are just going to use this to switch between PvP and PvE spec. There are also people I know who are Ret for PvP and dailies and Holy for dungeons and raids, but they are already Holy for PvE... this will just make switching easier for them, it won't increase the net number of healers.

I am sure that there will be SOME DPS that do not currently tank or heal that will use this to try out tanking or healing, but the number really isn't going to be all that high in my opinion. The people that already want to tank or heal are the ones that are already doing it.

I am not saying that there is going to be no increase at all in the tanking and healing population due to dual spec, but I don't think over the long haul that it will be a significant increase.

I totally agree that it would be nice to have this available at 60 instead of 80, but I suspect from a programming perspective it was much easier to wait until people were at max level and had all of their talent points to distribute between the two specs.

Having to program the game so that it would say, "Oh you just hit level 61... where do you want that talent point for spec 1, and where do you want that talent point for spec 2?" would have been far less easy to program. And what happens if somewhere between 60 and 80 you make a mistake in placing a talent point in ONE of your two trees? Potential Nightmare.

From a player perspective, having it at 60 instead of 80 would rock. From a programming standpoint... eww.

Edited, Feb 13th 2009 9:04am by jeromesimina
#32 Feb 13 2009 at 6:29 AM Rating: Good
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I don't think it is going to solve the problem of lack of tanks and healers as much as you hope. The fact is, most people don't want the responsibility of tanking or healing, so even if they have dual-spec, it still isn't going to entice them to heal. Most of the people I know that play Ret Pally (for example) are just going to use this to switch between PvP and PvE spec. There are also people I know who are Ret for PvP and dailies and Holy for dungeons and raids, but they are already Holy for PvE... this will just make switching easier for them, it won't increase the net number of healers.


I agree. I think this is mainly going to be a time/money saver for people that are already respeccing to raid/grind/pvp, I don't see the overall numbers of healers or tanks increasing. Although, there may be more tanks and healers that may volunteer to do runs if they are bored, whereas now they wouldn't because they don't want to waste money respeccing just to run a pug.
#33 Feb 13 2009 at 7:33 AM Rating: Decent
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For me I'd defiantly want it while I am leveling. I don't do a whole lot of PVP and have only given arena a small go. I leveled my pally up to 66 as prot because I wanted to tank but then WoTLK came out and I heard good things about ret to I changed, mainly to get leveled to Northrend quicker. I do a lot of solo'ing and now I have tried ret for solo I can't bear the thought of going back to prot even though I want to tank when I do instances. To be honest I couldn't care less about duel spec once I reach 80, I'll just stay prot, but until then I would love to be ret/prot. It's the same for my priest, I wish I could be holy/shadow until 80 but once I get to 80 holy will be enough for me.
I'm sure that I don't represent the majority of players but I'm sure the must be a fair few out there that feel the same way as me.

edited for spelling

Edited, Feb 13th 2009 10:36am by ViralVD
#34 Feb 13 2009 at 8:25 AM Rating: Good
Honestly the ability to swap specs is the least important part of the system for me. Because it also comes with:

~Ability to swap specs out at a dungeon or raid

~Ability to swap glyphs instead of having to go to the AH or guild bank and hoping they're in stock (and they often aren't!)

~Ability to set a spec before finalizing so I don't have to completely restart if I misclick (you're be surprised how often I do that...)

~Ability to swap cast bars


All THOSE things excite me very much, the 50g to respec wasn't that big an issue, it was all the other hassles that came along with it.
#35 Feb 13 2009 at 10:02 AM Rating: Good
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I don't know, I'm a ret pally and I'd use dual spec to switch between DPS and Healer roles.

Then again, I'm not a serious PVP'er, and my ret spec is just fine for the occasional BG or WG that I do.
#36 Feb 14 2009 at 5:23 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Nethaera: Who will be able to use it?
Ghostcrawler: Players who have reached the maximum level will be able to set up dual specs.


Huge let down, it should be available as soon as you hit level 10 with no cost. I was looking forward to levelling a feral/resto druid. Wont be able to do this now.
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#37 Feb 14 2009 at 7:31 AM Rating: Decent
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Huge let down, it should be available as soon as you hit level 10 with no cost. I was looking forward to levelling a feral/resto druid. Wont be able to do this now.


That is WHY it won't be available.

For one, leveling is so fast as it and no leveling instance really requires you to spec into your role.

Also, it gives a HUGE bonus to some classes while leveling, and very, very little to others. A Druid, through talents, can boost his two main buffs quite a bit (technically, at least). There are Lexicons of Power in a few towns spread pretty well around NR. While actually using that as his Quest Hub, he can always have his buffed MoW and Thorns up, despite his leveling spec not including them. Classes without buffs or with short ones cannot take advantage of this.

Finally, the system has been implemented for a very, very specific reason. Blizzard wants players to be able to:

A. Raid and PvP without having to pay for a respec.

B. Blizzard wants the "bring the player" mentality to take hold, so that a Druid can, say, both tank and Heal (Which is why I lol whenever I see a post of a Druid going DpS Feral and DpS Moonkin...)

C. They don't want to make the Prot Warriors or the Holy Priests suffer while farming (or any other non-raid endgame activity) anymore.


Leveling is NOT why they implemented the system.
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#38 Feb 16 2009 at 3:05 PM Rating: Good
I'm looking forward to this.

I've leveled my Shaman as elemental. I would like to go to healing but worry that with my current gear, and my personal skill at healing that I wouldn't be up to the challenge of healing a heroic. This gives me the chance to do non-heroics as a healer, and do heroics as dps to get better gear for when I do have the skills for healing.

I've already switched back and forth a number of times and the cost and down time is prohibitive.

With this ability I'll be able to switch around way easier so that I can both learn the healing side of things, as well as still get into heroics with little down time and or cost.

Now I also believe that it should be available from lvl 10 right on up. There was one argument that it would be hard for people and the developers to say which point where, and when on the fly as they are lvling. I think that's crap. You have one spec on you at any time. Therefore you can change that spec by your one point just like you do now. If you want to change the other spec you have to go to a lexicon and do so. From a development point of view that is just as easy at lvl 10 as it is at lvl 80. It doesn't matter how many points you have to spend, the dynamics are already in place to allow it.

Also I like many others have said. Hope this is cheap to get going.

Like most of us I don't have 5k gold sitting around collecting dust. I like most of us don't/can't farm 1k gold/day.

One idea on cost is to have it scale by lvl. If they implement it at level 10 at the cost of say 5g per point at lvl 80 that would be 355g as a one time fee. That should be reasonable to most people and still not break the bank on a new player.

It could even be cool to implement as a quest that gives you your own personal lexicon that's only usable every 22 hours or something.

There you have it.

Flame away my good friends, flame away.

Fugeth
#39 Feb 17 2009 at 3:02 AM Rating: Good
judging from some of the other things that have been released in the xpac (cost wise) I would not put it past blizzard to slap some massive fee the dual spec... Its like we don't have enough to farm for already (epic training, mounts, signet, choppa parts, and other stuff I might of forgotten).
#40 Feb 17 2009 at 5:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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With this ability I'll be able to switch around way easier so that I can both learn the healing side of things, as well as still get into heroics with little down time and or cost.


This would be the main consideration for me. Our small guild has a surplus of tanks and healers- theres only 10 level 80's atm; 3 tankadins, 1 teddybear, 2 priests, 2 treehuggers and 2 hunters. As you can see, even a 5 man HC guild run requires a respec here n there so this ability to chop and change would be of great benefit to me and our guild.

Oh, and yes some of us could respec permanently but, of the tanks and healers, myself included (tankadin) nobody particularly want to respec dips- we rolled as we did 'cause that's what we enjoy the most.

Mind you, I cant ***** too hard- any idea how long it takes to get a pug group together? "tank and healer need 3 dps for HC (dungeon)- pm for invite"...not long at all :)

Anyhoo, back to work before the MD starts growling to loudly..

ttfn,

Jon

#41 Feb 17 2009 at 6:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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This will be brilliant for me. I am currently a Disc priest but would love to be able to DPS and fill those heroics places. Since my hubby is a Holy Paladin and my best friend and wow buddy is a Resto Druid we often can't go to dungeons together without a pain in the *** for us all but with some crafty duel spec set ups we can all go! Healer/Tank Paladin Healer/DPS Priest and Healer/DPS Druid ftw....
#42 Feb 17 2009 at 7:00 AM Rating: Good
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Great post, rated up.

Quote:

Nethaera: Will players be confined to only setting up two specs?
Ghostcrawler: We will be launching the feature with just two specs, but depending on how we feel it works out, we might consider additional specs in the future.


Confined? It seems that some people can never truly be satisfied...
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