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Yes and no. While I didn't remember it's existence, the reason why I didn't remember was because it is, currently, trash. The other two options are much better.

The reason why they changed it to crit was to simply nerf demonology warlocks. It was obvious to even myself (and I barely play my warlock) that they stacked way too many damage multipliers. While I never use spells that can crit while soloing, in instances I use incinerate more than half the time. So, it's not useless.

Based on my personal experience, warriors still tank at 70 dungeons and do a damn fine job doing so.

Well, most of the ones I've run with, anyway. A couple have been ****-poor tanks, but that hasn't changed much from pre-TBC. Thank god I have guildies this go around to tank for me, so the times I have to deal with crappy tanks is limited.

Edited, Feb 27th 2007 12:50am by Poldaran

We were talking shadow priest here. I was healing in full holy, and the shadow priest's DPS would be a small addition to my mana replenish. But every time, practically the moment he touched Onyxia, he got the aggro.

Maybe next time we should try with a shadow priest tanking ;)

Demonology was rediculous. You didn't need fantastic gear to get +600 to +1000 or more shadow damage because your talents were spoonfeeding you assloads of +damage, and now it's been fixed.

Demonologists shouldn't have DoTs that tick harder than an Affliction Warlock, I'm sorry. It's just not going to fly. Nor should their base spellpower be so much that their shadowbolts hit harder than the Destruction build. It's just not right, and they corrected it with a clever sidegrade. It wasn't a nerf, it was a most certainly needed FIX.

I've been a 41 point build in every talent tree since 2.0, and I had tried 30/21 and 31/20 styles back in the day. Demonology was overpowered and the Affliction tree took the nerf bat, and now they're finally getting it right.

Edited, Feb 27th 2007 5:13am by Sanvyn

Nice to see that an ok spell has been made less affective. At least most mobs are too stupid, or don't have the ability generally, to cleanse crap.

Since when would a Shield hitting you upside the head be like an entangle effect?

It is morons like Xylia that ruin the game for others with thier ignorance. Just another stupid warrior who crys for nerfs because they think it will make there class better. NERFS are bad people. They should never be supported. "my level 48 warrior" WTF your posts are typical of ignorant warriors responsible for getting druids nerfed to were they arent going to be wanted if they are specd feral. LEVEL up to 60 please before you offer your opinion.

I played my druid to 70 as a feral spec and have always wanted to spec feral and be appreciated and wanted in groups of any kinda and in expansion druids are great tanks because we are excited to be able to be useful as a feral spec to a party and we try hard to do whatever we can. Do you know how many idiot warriors dont even like to tank or want to. Most want to dps with a 2 hander. If you already have a 60 warrior or a 70 and also have a 48 then your one of those people who doesnt think about trying anything knew or thinking creatively. If your only warrior is 48 then you know about 10% of what this game is about. Please STFU. If you are playing a second warrior why dont you try playing a druid.

You cannot do anything well with out specing specifically and gearing for that role PLEASE morons stop saying we can do everything at once. when tanking you can hardly get an innervate off on the priest without dying. You do not understand the dynamics of a hybrid class you probably dont even understand a straight forward class like a warrior. want to know why druids make better tanks. They are smarter because they have had to figure out how to deal with the complexity of playing a hybrid first.

We now have a gimped pvp form because of idiots like you. Its not like druids were topping the charts at anything from EOTS to arenas to dps charts. WTF was wrong with having someone who could tank a 5 man well and help everyone else out. Warriors hadnt even finished scaling and we are getting the shaft I cant stand short sighted small minded people like you.

I begged for warrior BUFFS so that they wouldnt complaing . I wanted warriors to get there rage or something else to make them happy. Now instead people like Xylia are the reason we are getting a huge nerf and our happiness as ferals is being taking away before things even had a chance to settle in as warriors get geared up buffed up and scaled up. Thanks a lot *******.

Ok, in talking to my brother in the past few days, I feel I've come up with a solution to most Feral Druid's fears:

Allow Lacerate to work on mobs immune to bleed. Give it an initial damage that has the majority of the threat multiplier, with the bleed only accounting for a small portion. This would allow druids to tank warrior-style, spamming Lacerates on mobs instead of just Mangle-spamming the crap out of mobs for rediculous amounts of damage.

Druids should not tank through damage, is what I'm saying. Give them hate multipliers like Warriors get, and I think everyone but the idiots would be happy.

(For the Warriors already starting to get up-in-arms about this, you need to realize the difference between a Feral tank and a Prot.)

And that's the reason that I think a change is needed; Druids are a different sort of tank from a Warrior in how they take damage and mitigate it. Why do they need to be different in how they gain hate?

By the way, my brother has been denied to all of the Karazhan guild he's applied to just because 90%+ of the mobs are bleed-immune.

We've got hate multipliers, the thing is those multipliers only multiply damage, just like on warriors.

For moves that give threat other than that multiplier we have:
Maul
demo roar (small)
faerie fire (small, but free/6sec)
lacerate (half a sunder, plus bleed damage that is a pain to stack unless you're wasting it (get feared? spend 90 rage stacking it up again))

warriors have:
thunderclap
heroic strike
demo shout (more ap and more threat than roar)
shield bash/slam
revenge
sunder
devastate
cleave
hamstring

Note how many of those warriors use as their main tanking tools. Now note how many druids spam (maul, maybe lacerate (I really don't like it)). That's why druids are saying we need either more damage than warriors or more threat multiplier than a warrior.

"If you can't tell me that's broken, then dude... just quit playing WoW. Gee, I wish I could heal myself like that. I wish I could do damage while tanking. I wish I could change shapes to give myself travel speed."

Stop wishing and reroll a druid. I will tell you how broken you want things. You are only a 47 warrior anyway you already probably know everything about the game at this point. If you had your way druids should probably get those little things you want giving to you and left with nothing the same way your kinda asks for druid nerfs.

NO NERFS PLEASE. How can people ask for nerfs with right mind. Its only jealous jerks that want nerfs. Dont ask for changes to a class you dont understand only ask for what your class needs. Try to come up with something creative. I bet everyone in the game would vote to give prot warriors a big buff. I say give them almost anything they want. Good tanks help everyone. See I dont want to see warriors whine and grieve over losing power. I always wanted blizzard to fix the rage normalization. However what you have done is made us get pushed to the bottom of the pvp food chain once again. Where we have been for the last 2 years. Druids do not own the arenas bgs or dps charts. They arent #1 at anything. Only ignorant people think they can do everything at once. You need to gear and spec to play any role well and once in that spec you cant do the others like people think they can. Druids are losing to casters as is and we have pretty much reached our scaling peak.

Now because of ignorant selfish warriors, we are going to be laughed at and tanked by casters who wont even bother running when they see a bear but they will just sit and cast in our face and laugh when we tickle them with a maul that does 25% of the dmg spell they are casting.

I was listing the abilities that had threat on top of damage, not necessarily the good ones.
Heroic strike: exactly analogous to maul.
Demo shout: yeah, but more threat than ours and people claim spamming ours is good for aoe threat (morons) so I threw it in.
Shield Bash/Slam: Slam you use on everything. Also, I was comparing to a prot warrior, since that's who we're comparing bears to. Anyone arguing that dps warriors should outtank bears needs to go gargle some bleach.
Devastate: again, we are comparing to prot.
Cleave: yeah, but it's still an ability that adds threat to the base damage.
Hamstring: As Cleave.

The point: if you take bear dps down to prot dps levels, we will be massively behind them in threat generation, not equal, even though we have the same threat multiplier on standard damage.

Ahh... The good old days.