Okay so I see someone in LFG looking for a tank and a healer for a 45 min strat ud run. I just hit 60 on my warrior about a week ago. I'm a big boy now, I think I can handle it. So I send a tell and get an invite. Now we just need a healer. 5 minutes later we have one. So now our group consists of 60 rogue, 60 warrior (me), 60 priest, 60 mage and a 59 pally. This should be a good group I think to myself.
We get to the instance entrance and we're waiting for the mage to arrive. I let the group know that this is my first time here so if there's anything I need to know or do then let me know. The rogue asks what spec I am. I'm mostly arms with the rest in prot. Then he asks if I have a 1h and a shield since I'm currently wielding my 2h. I let him know that I always carry it around and use it when tanking. No problem.
The priest says "We should let the palladin tank since the warrior is new here". I have no problem with that. I can offtank and dps. Then the pally says she's only been there 3 times and isn't familiar with the pulls. The rogue says he can pull but it would lower his dps. Priest says 'that's okay I can pull the mobs and feint for the warrior to get agro'
I'm here to learn so I whisper the rogue asking why the pulls are so hard. He tells me it's because of the number and the spaccing. Doesn't sound so bad. The way the priest was talking it sounded like it needed to be in a certain order or done a certain way. I think I could handle it. I've played puller in many groups in different mmos including wow. But I don't say anything and let the priest do it. She sounded like she knew what she was doing.
We go into the instance and I switch to my tanking gear. Next thing I know the priest runs into the first group of mobs and gets the beat down. I don't think everyone was ready for it, at least I know I wasn't. I run in and hit challenge shout but it's a little too late, the priest goes down. The mage goes crazy with his aoes and he goes down shortly after. The rogue slowly goes down and it's just me and the pally trying to finish off the last 3 mobs. We finish them off. Rez the priest, mage and rogue. Mage laughs and says 'That wasn't a very good start'.
We rebuff and recover quickly and the priest tells us to wait. We wait while she runs around the corner. Then she tells the pally to come to her and do some sort of undead tracking skill. She's looking for a named mob, I forget who. She finds the mob she's looking for. So the priest tells the rest of us to come to her. So me and the rogue and mage start heading around the corner which is a little bit of a ways away. I come around the corner and see 5+ mobs beating on the priest and the pally. Apparently she pulled at the same time she said come here. So by the time me and the mage got there she was at 1/4 of her health. She doesn't stand a chance. She goes down right when I get in range to taunt the main mob. Pally goes down shortly after then the mage and then me and then the rogue.
'WTF who did that?', asks the mage. 'I wasn't ready for that', I said. 'None of us were', said the rogue. 'You ******' said the mage. 'I'm sorry but this group isn't going to cut it', mage leaves. Priest leaves. Rogue apologizes to me and the pally. I told them I could have pulled better than that.
5 minutes after we started our 45 min ud run and we was done.
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How to do a 45 min UD run in 5 min! Not a hax!Follow
Welcome to the PuG life.
Happens.all.the.time.
Happens.all.the.time.
Sounds like how most of my Strat pugs start. I hate that place.
Sounds similar to 3/4 of all 45 min UD runs. They either get going and work or they fail miserably.
Generally they all fail miserably. I did see a good guide to doing this. Lemme see if i can find it:
http://www.wow-pro.com/node/653
Its a pretty interesting read, as is all of his guides. I hope this helps ya.
Generally they all fail miserably. I did see a good guide to doing this. Lemme see if i can find it:
http://www.wow-pro.com/node/653
Its a pretty interesting read, as is all of his guides. I hope this helps ya.
Whenever I think Strat, I think Scholo.... and vice a versa.
Yeah that first group from the service gate can take you by surprise. Honestly having a priest shackle pull the big groups isn't the best idea. I've had a priest shackle pull the ghoul 3-somes and that can work but with big groups it's hard to get all the aggro off, even if they fade (cuz when they pop back out a couple of the small ones can snap back onto the priest). Better to have the main tank or a hunter pull, someone who can take a few hits if need be.
It is really important to know the pulls for strat UD, especially if it's a 45 minute run. And honestly it being your first time I would go on a few normal runs first to see how all the pulls go and how all the bosses are defeated before you try for 45 mins. There is a certain order to the pulls, but mainly you just have to watch out for gargoyle pats and eyes and make sure you don't get alot of adds.
All in all though strat ud is one of the funner instances once you get the hang of it.
It is really important to know the pulls for strat UD, especially if it's a 45 minute run. And honestly it being your first time I would go on a few normal runs first to see how all the pulls go and how all the bosses are defeated before you try for 45 mins. There is a certain order to the pulls, but mainly you just have to watch out for gargoyle pats and eyes and make sure you don't get alot of adds.
All in all though strat ud is one of the funner instances once you get the hang of it.
why is it that preists always want to shackle pull anyways? It's like one of the golden rules of MMO's, don't have healers initiate combat!
But anyways, I'd take a couple runs without rushing yourself to learn the layout before aiming for a 45~ Once you know the pulls and the pats, it's really not a hard instance... Don't even need AoE to finish it, despite what alot of people seem to think... More then enough holy water to be found to kill off the skeletons at Baron~
I would suggest that you just bring along a stack of arrows and do the pulling yourself~ If the tank is the only one starting fights, then things usually go smooth
But anyways, I'd take a couple runs without rushing yourself to learn the layout before aiming for a 45~ Once you know the pulls and the pats, it's really not a hard instance... Don't even need AoE to finish it, despite what alot of people seem to think... More then enough holy water to be found to kill off the skeletons at Baron~
I would suggest that you just bring along a stack of arrows and do the pulling yourself~ If the tank is the only one starting fights, then things usually go smooth
There is no way I would pug a 45 min run with anyone less than lvl 60. I also personally probably wouldn't attempt it with anyone who had never been to the instance before. You guys didn't even get to the start timer.
Theres nothing wrong with priest pulls if they are smart about it and have a good group. But if the tank knows what/how/when to pull its generally best to let them.
Theres nothing wrong with priest pulls if they are smart about it and have a good group. But if the tank knows what/how/when to pull its generally best to let them.
Quote:
There is no way I would pug a 45 min run with anyone less than lvl 60. I also personally probably wouldn't attempt it with anyone who had never been to the instance before. You guys didn't even get to the start timer.
Theres nothing wrong with priest pulls if they are smart about it and have a good group. But if the tank knows what/how/when to pull its generally best to let them.
Theres nothing wrong with priest pulls if they are smart about it and have a good group. But if the tank knows what/how/when to pull its generally best to let them.
Very good point. There are 3 boss fights preSlaughter House and there is no time explain tactics for those bosses so all people attending must be familiar with the instance and fights.
It's also very important that you attempt it with people you know, with people you trust about their play styles and skills. Priest pull is not an issue if a priest knows how to pull, nonelite trash mob is not a problem for a priest who knows how to fade and shield herself when needed. (In Strat/Scholo it's a shackle pull, wand pull is ridiculous) Or there are pulls better for mages/shadow priests in which counterspell/silence is the best and safest pull.
That Baron 45 run is not a run about superior gear or superior skill. A group of 5 people who have some idea about their classes and that are confident of each other can manage it with decent gear. Better gear only lowers the time.
Yeah, don't worry about it, it's near impossible to do a 45 minute run if 1 or more people in the group have never been inside of the instance. It doesn't matter if you know your class very well or not, you simply have to know the instance. I could see maybe bringing a first timer if you could get them on vent and talk them through everything - there's simply not enough time to type strats when you're in there.
That being said, it's not hard to do a 45 minute run. You just have to keep going at a steady clip with no *****-ups. Gear wise, it was designed around the t0.5 quest upgrade chain, so it's not really advisable to do it with people that aren't level 60 and don't have high level instance blues for gear. You don't need any epics at all, but a full suit of greens may stop you from keeping the pace you need. Additionally, a bit of decent gear will help you if you do ***** something up. Most of the runs I have done included an MS or fury warrior that only wore his tanking gear for boss fights (or just for baron). A rogue and a warrior can pretty much fight constantly at a fast pace as long as they are healed. You can often use this to your advantage by alternating healers (one heals while the other drinks) while the rogue/warrior and mage plow through mobs.
In any case, don't blame yourself for what happened. Before you try another 45min run, run the instance a few times and learn the boss fights, and where mobs are. The unique part of the 45 minute run is you don't pull every pack of mobs (to increase your speed). Looking up a guide that shows you which mobs to pull is a good idea (esp being new to the instance).
That being said, it's not hard to do a 45 minute run. You just have to keep going at a steady clip with no *****-ups. Gear wise, it was designed around the t0.5 quest upgrade chain, so it's not really advisable to do it with people that aren't level 60 and don't have high level instance blues for gear. You don't need any epics at all, but a full suit of greens may stop you from keeping the pace you need. Additionally, a bit of decent gear will help you if you do ***** something up. Most of the runs I have done included an MS or fury warrior that only wore his tanking gear for boss fights (or just for baron). A rogue and a warrior can pretty much fight constantly at a fast pace as long as they are healed. You can often use this to your advantage by alternating healers (one heals while the other drinks) while the rogue/warrior and mage plow through mobs.
In any case, don't blame yourself for what happened. Before you try another 45min run, run the instance a few times and learn the boss fights, and where mobs are. The unique part of the 45 minute run is you don't pull every pack of mobs (to increase your speed). Looking up a guide that shows you which mobs to pull is a good idea (esp being new to the instance).
OP i hate you! (lol jk). I read your topic title thinking it was a quick way to get to the end of one of the most horrifying PuG dungeons and give me a way to make said experience less horrifying and tormenting but instead I was thrust into a story about a horrible PuG experience when I was only trying to escape them! oh how I loathe thee!! lol =D
ahh 45 min runs how i despise thee, i remember one time someone pulled a leeroy i rofl'd but the priest and pally didn't think it was so funny it was our tank so I was like haha and then our pally thought it would be a good idea to help and the priest was clueless I sent my pet in and feigned because I could tell it was a defintite wipe(repair bills suck) , but man was that funny PuGs ftl...
Have done it with a couple of pugs, np. I was the tank up to baron every time and had a warrior tanking baron because we only carried one other healer every time.
You simply cannot run Baron45 without knowing the instance, especially if you're the tank. Run the instance a couple of times at normal speed, while looking around which mobs you need to aggro and which ones you can skip. There are guides that tell you which mobs you need to take, but you can adjust on that (I personally always pull the ghouls on the left of the street and not the casters on the right of the street towards Nerub'nekan, since pallies have an easier time against undead, and the manadraining against casters is just an overall slowdown). The rest needs to know and be informed about which mobs are being skipped.
You also need to keep the pulling speed under control, especially at the start. I don't really know how warriors do it, but I do most of my pulls there with Exorcism, which has a cooldown of 15 seconds. I just exorcism a new mob passing by each time it's off cooldown, whether there are still mobs on me or not. The one mob per 15 seconds seem to be a nice pace, fast enough to keep up the speed for 45min and enough for decent priests to keep me up. For bigger groups like the ghoul group right and left (which I clear since it always seems to be aggro'ed while fighting the wraith boss) I wait for the other mobs to be dead and then use Avenger's Shield on them (Before I used Exorcism on one, Judged the 2nd with Righteousness and started swinging on the 3rd, unless it was shackled).
Basically, when you get the Wraith boss down and got 37 minutes left, you're gonna make it if you don't ***** up. if you got 35 minutes left, sit back, relax, and make it a normal run, you're not gonna make it.
You simply cannot run Baron45 without knowing the instance, especially if you're the tank. Run the instance a couple of times at normal speed, while looking around which mobs you need to aggro and which ones you can skip. There are guides that tell you which mobs you need to take, but you can adjust on that (I personally always pull the ghouls on the left of the street and not the casters on the right of the street towards Nerub'nekan, since pallies have an easier time against undead, and the manadraining against casters is just an overall slowdown). The rest needs to know and be informed about which mobs are being skipped.
You also need to keep the pulling speed under control, especially at the start. I don't really know how warriors do it, but I do most of my pulls there with Exorcism, which has a cooldown of 15 seconds. I just exorcism a new mob passing by each time it's off cooldown, whether there are still mobs on me or not. The one mob per 15 seconds seem to be a nice pace, fast enough to keep up the speed for 45min and enough for decent priests to keep me up. For bigger groups like the ghoul group right and left (which I clear since it always seems to be aggro'ed while fighting the wraith boss) I wait for the other mobs to be dead and then use Avenger's Shield on them (Before I used Exorcism on one, Judged the 2nd with Righteousness and started swinging on the 3rd, unless it was shackled).
Basically, when you get the Wraith boss down and got 37 minutes left, you're gonna make it if you don't ***** up. if you got 35 minutes left, sit back, relax, and make it a normal run, you're not gonna make it.
Especially in the 2nd part (just after youre timer started) with all the bat patrols who have very long routes and respawn its a very bad idea to open with shackle since the shackled mob can pull a patrol which in his turn can pull another group next to it.
Its best for the priest to wait the mobs are in the partys "safe zone" and let the mob be shackled there. In advance agree on which mob to be shakeld (fe: always front one, always most right one)
And as said before by other posters, its always a bad idea to let the healer pull, if the pull goes wrong a warrior or rogue can jump forward and die solo without putting the rest of the group in combat. Even when the priest is mega experienced with the instance and the warriors / rogues / hunters are new its still a bad idea to let the priest pull.
A 45 baron run requires an experienced group, you must know the pulls and patrols and even skip a few thrash groups by hugging walls and such. If you played FFXI, its best to clear a patch where there are no patrols and long range pull 4-5 groups then move to the next "safe spot". No links due to patrols and mana users can sit and drink while a rogue (vanish for miss pulls) or hunter pull the next group. (sounds familiar eh? ;))
Edited, Dec 21st 2006 9:15am by Sjans
Its best for the priest to wait the mobs are in the partys "safe zone" and let the mob be shackled there. In advance agree on which mob to be shakeld (fe: always front one, always most right one)
And as said before by other posters, its always a bad idea to let the healer pull, if the pull goes wrong a warrior or rogue can jump forward and die solo without putting the rest of the group in combat. Even when the priest is mega experienced with the instance and the warriors / rogues / hunters are new its still a bad idea to let the priest pull.
A 45 baron run requires an experienced group, you must know the pulls and patrols and even skip a few thrash groups by hugging walls and such. If you played FFXI, its best to clear a patch where there are no patrols and long range pull 4-5 groups then move to the next "safe spot". No links due to patrols and mana users can sit and drink while a rogue (vanish for miss pulls) or hunter pull the next group. (sounds familiar eh? ;))
Edited, Dec 21st 2006 9:15am by Sjans
Sjans wrote:
Especially in the 2nd part (just after youre timer started)
That's what I refer to as the start. Anything before that is outside the timer, so there's no rush, so people can do it just like they can do a regular run.
When I'm tanking I don't like shackles at all. Let them hit me, so I build aggro on them and DPS them a little at the same time. Having them shackled means me keeping an eye on them and brustDPSing or taunting them when they come free. But maybe that's different for warriors.
Yeah I've only done one 45 minute run but it was with guildies. I'm sure you could do it with a pug but it's much smoother and safer with people you know.
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