I have a quandry, and it involves my guild.
I've only been in a few guilds- the first being my only guild for just under a year, and another was a guild I was invited to but didn't fit in well in, so moved on. I found a guild that had a lot of ex-guildies from my first guild, so joined it.
However, several have moved on, and a number of new people have joined. I'm finding not only am I not liking some of the new players' attitudes we've taken on, but I'm finding that there seem to be a "cliquish" attitude within it.
I don't have a lot of time to do instances most of the time, but try to help the guild in other ways when I can. I look up information if someone needs it, and when people ask for help, I often go to assist. I just can't always guarantee that I can devote 2+ hours to an instance without having to leave the group at some point, and I do not like inconveniencing others, so I don't do them unless I'm confident I can run the whole thing.
However, I've noticed on several occasions now that people will whisper each other in the guild rather than do a general guild invite. I can understand this sometimes, but it seems to be almost exclusive, and that bothers me. I've even asked if anyone's running instances when I have free time, only to get a wall of silence. About half an hour later, I'll look at the online list, only to see one group in Strat and another in Scholo, or an LBRS run, when I know they hadn't organised it prior to me coming online. There was one time that I actually got mad, because I asked if anyone felt like an instance, and everyone said they were busy. Ten minutes later someone who's in the "in" crowd came on and asked if anything was going on, and a couple of people responded. I looked at the guild roster a little later, to see what everyone was doing, and sure enough, he and a few others (who had been too busy to join me) were magically in UBRS. I hadn't seen any invites at all via guild chat.
I guess I'm wondering if I've done something. There are only a few people I'm really staying in the guild for now, since I like their company. However, I feel like the only time I'm wanted is when they're short on DPS. I have a couple of options for guilds if I choose to move on, but I'm wondering if I should mention the problem, stay shut & move on, or just find some alternative solution. I always felt that the whole reason for guilds was to have a feeling of belonging and so you don't have to PUG- and I'm really feeling like a redheaded stepchild these days.
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Cliques in GuildsFollow
I have noticed that like with any group, there will always be cliques. If you take a broad look at a guild itself. They are a clique. Which can be broken down into sub-divisions.
Unfortunatly not everyone gets along with everyone else. Some people may seem more personable, some draw people in. By not being part of your guild, or friends with you or your experiences, it is very hard to say what you are doing right/wrong or anything along those lines.
I have found a few times that guildies will not respond in chat to find them in an instance that I was not invited to.
I am taking a RL standpoint on this because I started practicing it lately. A bunch of my friends and I go out for beers and sushi once or twice a week. A few people we used to invite every time, with the rare spattering of them joining us. It got to the point where it was more of a hassel to barter with them, or even ask because the chance was slim they would actually attend. So we stopped asking them.
As time went on they asked why they weren't invited. To which we said, well you don't show up very often if at all. They stated they still do enjoy coming and that the invites were appreciated. Since then we still ask them and they still show up less than half the time, but we know they are still interested, just may have other pending plans that need to be attended to.
My recommendation is to bring it up to them. Do not get mad, or flame anyone. Just say straight out. I love doing instances with you guys/gals when I have ample time to do so. Lately I have been left out, so if you could invite that would be cool.
If they bash you or say you never come or anything like that. Take it with a grain of salt, make an effort to make more, or some, and give realistic expectations. If thats not acceptable maybe moving on would be a good choice.
Unfortunatly not everyone gets along with everyone else. Some people may seem more personable, some draw people in. By not being part of your guild, or friends with you or your experiences, it is very hard to say what you are doing right/wrong or anything along those lines.
I have found a few times that guildies will not respond in chat to find them in an instance that I was not invited to.
I am taking a RL standpoint on this because I started practicing it lately. A bunch of my friends and I go out for beers and sushi once or twice a week. A few people we used to invite every time, with the rare spattering of them joining us. It got to the point where it was more of a hassel to barter with them, or even ask because the chance was slim they would actually attend. So we stopped asking them.
As time went on they asked why they weren't invited. To which we said, well you don't show up very often if at all. They stated they still do enjoy coming and that the invites were appreciated. Since then we still ask them and they still show up less than half the time, but we know they are still interested, just may have other pending plans that need to be attended to.
My recommendation is to bring it up to them. Do not get mad, or flame anyone. Just say straight out. I love doing instances with you guys/gals when I have ample time to do so. Lately I have been left out, so if you could invite that would be cool.
If they bash you or say you never come or anything like that. Take it with a grain of salt, make an effort to make more, or some, and give realistic expectations. If thats not acceptable maybe moving on would be a good choice.
I have this as well. This week alone I've been screwed out of 3 different runs. Once people were asking for 20 minutes looking for people and I was flat out ignored. The other two times I was told to come, logged my alt, flew to where they were going only to find out the run was already full. It only takes 30 seconds to log onto another character so I see this as a slap in the face.
I told them not to invite me to help any more and was verbally assaulted by one of the guild leaders (who was not a part of the problem afaik). Spoke with 2 others in the guild and the way they are treated seems to be the norm.
Add those problems along with being asked repeatedly to help a level 52 begging warrior to kill a level 61 elite (Araj) when he doesn't even have both quests and I don't feel like the guild is the right place for me.
I told them not to invite me to help any more and was verbally assaulted by one of the guild leaders (who was not a part of the problem afaik). Spoke with 2 others in the guild and the way they are treated seems to be the norm.
Add those problems along with being asked repeatedly to help a level 52 begging warrior to kill a level 61 elite (Araj) when he doesn't even have both quests and I don't feel like the guild is the right place for me.
I've been in a half-dozen different guilds. They all have had their cliques and other assorted problems.
Just the other day, my wife and I left for a newish guild not quite ready for raiding. (The old guild was farming ZG and doing AQ40) In the old guild, there was too much BS going on, kiddie antics, and vocabulary meant for Patton.
The new guild is PG and will allow us to be part of a guild learning to raid. So far, so good.
My advice...look for a new guild, even if you stay attached to this one while you search.
Just the other day, my wife and I left for a newish guild not quite ready for raiding. (The old guild was farming ZG and doing AQ40) In the old guild, there was too much BS going on, kiddie antics, and vocabulary meant for Patton.
The new guild is PG and will allow us to be part of a guild learning to raid. So far, so good.
My advice...look for a new guild, even if you stay attached to this one while you search.
If you join a guild that has been together for a long time, you have to figure that there are going to be cliques ... I mean - if you had been playing w/ the same people for months or years, would you ever truly treat a new guy as a equal? IMO not until you got to know him and respect his play.
I'm just playing the devil's advocate...
One of the factors that leads to the phenomenon you're describing is the size of many guilds. I remember back in the day of Kharma Trolls - we had over 100 active members at a point - could you really have a guild that size w/out small groups of friends forming within it? No - sadly.
One of my favorite changes in TBC is the end of the 40-man raid. 40 people is just too much - you spend more time dealing with guild politics that you should have to. WoW is, afterall, supposed to be entertaining, and engaging in politics is not fun to most people.
I've heard (only rumor, don't quote me) that at least parts of tier 4 will come from 10-man "heroic" content (instances on hard mode). I welcome this - now I can enjoy some difficult PvE with my good friends without having to worry about joining up w/ another guild or recruiting more players that I don't want in my guild but need to facilitate raiding :P
I belong to a Guild as well and it is long established. I am not known in the guild and I don't join many events but I enjoy the chit-chat and the humor and jokes.
I am fine with this as I am primarily a solo'er ( Hunter and Rogue ) so I don't join groups very often unless it is for a quest I can't do alone. I have gone to help a couple of times when I was asked but I am happy to putter along at my own pace.
I would say if you don't like the guild then quit and join another. There a plenty formed every week-end looking for members.
I am fine with this as I am primarily a solo'er ( Hunter and Rogue ) so I don't join groups very often unless it is for a quest I can't do alone. I have gone to help a couple of times when I was asked but I am happy to putter along at my own pace.
I would say if you don't like the guild then quit and join another. There a plenty formed every week-end looking for members.
Jord, I understand what you mean, but you appear to be misinterpreting my post- perhaps I didn't explain properly though.
I actually joined this guild back in September of this year after my original guild broke up, discovering that many ex-guildies had actually joined this one. I felt like part of it when I started, but many of the guildies moved on, some because they wanted bigger & better guilds (this one is relatively small- only between 10-20 people on at any one time most of the time), or they followed their closer friends.
The issue is more that in the last few weeks, I've noticed a common trend to not do general guild invites, and when I do ask, I get ignored. I fully understand that some people enjoy getting together for groups, but I feel that, even when I openly ask, I am either being ignored or I've done something to **** someone off. I know I do a decent job in instances (I'm not perfect, but hey, I do my best, and am often complimented), and I am not overly pushy. But when I literally ask to go into a group and people refuse, only to see them jump at a request several minutes later by one of the clique, it bugs the hell out of me.
If I were a new member, I'd agree that I would need to prove myself. However, although I don't instance very often, I feel that I help out in many other ways and have proved my worth many times over, and nobody wants to feel like a dogsbody that is only thrown a bone when nothing better is available, but can be depended on when other people need a hand.
Edit: fragmented sentences FTL.
Edited, Dec 18th 2006 4:59pm by Wondroustremor
I actually joined this guild back in September of this year after my original guild broke up, discovering that many ex-guildies had actually joined this one. I felt like part of it when I started, but many of the guildies moved on, some because they wanted bigger & better guilds (this one is relatively small- only between 10-20 people on at any one time most of the time), or they followed their closer friends.
The issue is more that in the last few weeks, I've noticed a common trend to not do general guild invites, and when I do ask, I get ignored. I fully understand that some people enjoy getting together for groups, but I feel that, even when I openly ask, I am either being ignored or I've done something to **** someone off. I know I do a decent job in instances (I'm not perfect, but hey, I do my best, and am often complimented), and I am not overly pushy. But when I literally ask to go into a group and people refuse, only to see them jump at a request several minutes later by one of the clique, it bugs the hell out of me.
If I were a new member, I'd agree that I would need to prove myself. However, although I don't instance very often, I feel that I help out in many other ways and have proved my worth many times over, and nobody wants to feel like a dogsbody that is only thrown a bone when nothing better is available, but can be depended on when other people need a hand.
Edit: fragmented sentences FTL.
Edited, Dec 18th 2006 4:59pm by Wondroustremor
I see what you mean. Perhaps it is that you dont play as often as some of them and they simply are used to playing with certain people? (that doesn't make it anywhere close to ideal, of course).
I remember back in the day, while I was an Officer of Kharma Trolls, I would regularly group up with the same few people and run instances. We'd never ask the guild unless we needed a "pug" to fill a spot. We played on vent and I guess we were a clique - used to each other's voices. We were all friends - and why would we want someone who is relatively strange in our instance?
Again ... not ideal ...
I guess you end up closer with players who share the same playtime as you and who you play with regularly. One of WoW's problems is that it encourages casual on-your-own-time playing up until 60, and then once you hit 60 you suddenly need chunks of time measured in hours to get most things done. For some people, this presents a challenge if it is to be balanced with real life ... You can't do instances often and those who do will get to know each other better.
There was some talk of this in my guild, which is on the large side. Some folks just felt that they weren't in the "in" crowd, etc. I dunno. I never really felt left out. We've tried other means to help things along, such as our web forum and GroupCal...but success has been lukewarm, at best.
Sorry I don't have a solution, but the problem is a common one.
Sorry I don't have a solution, but the problem is a common one.
Quit, and go look for another guild. You can solo while you search. These people sound like they're irritating you - whether intentionally or not - and that sucks a lot fun out of the game. You don't HAVE to deal with them - so don't. Look into other guilds as opportunities present themselves.
I've found that typically, guilds will be divided into 3 segments of people.
First there are the leaders. Typically they're the guild leaders and guild officers, but it's basically anyone who will organize things.
Second are the leaders friends. "Friends" I use rather loosely, simply meaning "People the leaders know, have grouped with, and can rely on". After all, let's face it, if you're going to invest your time and effort in something, you want to bring along the people that will most likely make it succeed.
Third are the unknowns/unreliable followers. Unknown and unreliable are grouped together sometimes even knowing you're getting a bad player is better than getting lord knows what.
Typically what happens is.... nothing. At least, not until a leader logs on. Once a leader logs on, they figure out what they want to do, and browse through their friends finding out who's interested and fills out the group. If there IS a spare slot after they run out of friends, they'll probably mention it in guildchat, but it's usually pretty easy to find 4 people. When you ask "Is there an instance going" you're asking basically if there's a leader out there who's making a group, has a spot open, and your class would fit it perfectly. Those times are going to be rare even for a priest.
Try sending out private tells askin if people want to group. It'll let them know that you're personally interested in grouping with them, not just a wide open "is anyone interested" invite.
First there are the leaders. Typically they're the guild leaders and guild officers, but it's basically anyone who will organize things.
Second are the leaders friends. "Friends" I use rather loosely, simply meaning "People the leaders know, have grouped with, and can rely on". After all, let's face it, if you're going to invest your time and effort in something, you want to bring along the people that will most likely make it succeed.
Third are the unknowns/unreliable followers. Unknown and unreliable are grouped together sometimes even knowing you're getting a bad player is better than getting lord knows what.
Typically what happens is.... nothing. At least, not until a leader logs on. Once a leader logs on, they figure out what they want to do, and browse through their friends finding out who's interested and fills out the group. If there IS a spare slot after they run out of friends, they'll probably mention it in guildchat, but it's usually pretty easy to find 4 people. When you ask "Is there an instance going" you're asking basically if there's a leader out there who's making a group, has a spot open, and your class would fit it perfectly. Those times are going to be rare even for a priest.
Try sending out private tells askin if people want to group. It'll let them know that you're personally interested in grouping with them, not just a wide open "is anyone interested" invite.
Cliques are just part of the guild thing in every game. I understand how frustrating they can be. My current guild has taken it a step farther. We have allways been a smaller guild, mostly adults who would run things together. One of our members put together a "alliance" of 3-4 guilds with him a " leader " for the purpose of getting the 60's together for raiding higher end content.
Not a bad idea in princable but it wasent handled well. We went from a few guild runs a week to none and most of the higher players use the special " alliance " chanel for groups and not guild chat. Talk about takeing cliques to a new level.
I have a bad feeling for my current guild as things stand and how they have been going. I think the thing that gets me the most is we could of done the same things ourselves, albiet slower.
Edited, Dec 18th 2006 4:21pm by rosleck
Not a bad idea in princable but it wasent handled well. We went from a few guild runs a week to none and most of the higher players use the special " alliance " chanel for groups and not guild chat. Talk about takeing cliques to a new level.
I have a bad feeling for my current guild as things stand and how they have been going. I think the thing that gets me the most is we could of done the same things ourselves, albiet slower.
Edited, Dec 18th 2006 4:21pm by rosleck
"If you ask me, we could do with a little less motivation. The people who are causing all the trouble seem highly motivated to me. Serial killers, stock swindlers, drug dealers, Christian Republicans"
George Carlin.
George Carlin.
Cliques are a way of life for any group of people that get together. It's because of cliques and the pressure to maintain yourself in a clique environment that I'm becoming morecertain that I can't be a part of any organization larger than five people without wanting to cause some form of harm against people.
Take my current guild for instance. When I joined, it was pretty keen. Good people, willing to help out with my getting ready for End-Game. Pretty nice folks. Then they joined a "Guild Alliance" with 6 other guilds on Malygos, all headed up by a guild with the reputation of being effective, but a collection of elitist wang-wavers.
So I go from having to compete for MC slots with not only my own guild (Which didn't have too many hunters, but just raided at times I was unavailable) to against 6 other guilds and their hunters? Sorry... no thanks. And shortly after that, it became a case of "If you ain't raiding, we ain't talking to you."
Finally get back to my 60 and am looking to work on Ony Attunement. No go for BRD. No go for LBRS or UBRS.
Got an offer from another guild after took a PuG spot in one of their BRD groups. Probably will be taking them up on it.
But to answer your quandry: Do what you feel is right for you and your enjoyment of the game. It's the onyl advice that I can give that applies.
Take my current guild for instance. When I joined, it was pretty keen. Good people, willing to help out with my getting ready for End-Game. Pretty nice folks. Then they joined a "Guild Alliance" with 6 other guilds on Malygos, all headed up by a guild with the reputation of being effective, but a collection of elitist wang-wavers.
So I go from having to compete for MC slots with not only my own guild (Which didn't have too many hunters, but just raided at times I was unavailable) to against 6 other guilds and their hunters? Sorry... no thanks. And shortly after that, it became a case of "If you ain't raiding, we ain't talking to you."
Finally get back to my 60 and am looking to work on Ony Attunement. No go for BRD. No go for LBRS or UBRS.
Got an offer from another guild after took a PuG spot in one of their BRD groups. Probably will be taking them up on it.
But to answer your quandry: Do what you feel is right for you and your enjoyment of the game. It's the onyl advice that I can give that applies.
LOL I would of never thought of drama in a gaming world
2 posts
Ever thought that maybe you're just not that good? I'm sure you all know of people in your guilds who you've done instances with and they kept unintentionally pulling or just not holding their own. You're not going to say to their face they're crap - you'll just stop inviting them. Not saying that this applies to you, but it could be a factor. Other than that, maybe you just dont participate enough in your guild/guild chat and they'd rather just pick people who they know have nothing better to do than see out an instance till the end.
As for the clique thing, sometimes it's more to do with the fact these people are friends in real life. I'm always going to want to group with my real life mates, over people I've only met online.
As for the clique thing, sometimes it's more to do with the fact these people are friends in real life. I'm always going to want to group with my real life mates, over people I've only met online.
It's a fact that guilds change and evolve over time, not always for the better. Get into a guild where you can feel helpful and appreciated. Don't bother with long explanations. A quick I'm looking for something a little different, if you must say goodbye. I was a high ranking guild officer in one guild, but it evolved to the point where I had to leave. You and the guild must be a good fit, or you need to move on.
I hate cliques, so that is why I love joining guildes when they start, then I just followed my friends through so I always have friends of my own to rely on.
Jordster wrote:
I've heard (only rumor, don't quote me) that at least parts of tier 4 will come from 10-man "heroic" content (instances on hard mode). I welcome this - now I can enjoy some difficult PvE with my good friends without having to worry about joining up w/ another guild or recruiting more players that I don't want in my guild but need to facilitate raiding :P
As I understand it from the info on Karazhan, a portion of T4 will come from there, a nice 10 man.
Ialaman wrote:
Try sending out private tells askin if people want to group. It'll let them know that you're personally interested in grouping with them, not just a wide open "is anyone interested" invite.
I'd agree with this recommendation. It's just like when you've taken charge at an accident scene(which you may or may not have done as a police officer as I think I remember you saying you were one once).
You can't just say "Somebody go call 911" at an accident. It's quite possible it'll never get done then. You have to point at someone directly and say "You go call 911."
People respond to the direct approach much better than the general group approach.
The fact that you are not being invited to groups often might be because of at least a few reasons.
1. Maybe those are runs organized by people from outside of your guild. People from guild might not be able to invite anyone.
2. Maybe there are people who are IRL friends and /or play togather for a long time, trust each other and play WoW to play it together. You can't realy blame them.
3. Maybe you are not from proper class. Hunters as far as I know are often seen as an addition to 5 men groups, or even as the least wanted class which is mistake in my opinion. Someone who makes group / raid must find healers and tanks first, after that DPS and AoEers. Hunters are a great utility class and nice DPS class but in 5 men instances often seen as not the best class to take.
4. Maybe your gear is not good enough. People tend to invite players who will give them best chance to succed. If they have to choose from two players with same skill but different gear they will usually choose the one better geared. You can't really blame them. They invest 2- 4 hours of their life so thay want to make a nice and smooth run.
5. Maybe some think you have not enough skill or your skill is an unknown quantity.
What you can do:
1. Improve your gear as much as you can. BGs are the easiest way to get VERY good epics now.
2. Start groups yopurself. I had a rogue friend who could not find groups because there were too many rogues around. All with better gear and many friends. He startred creating groups himself. This way he didn't ghave to ask anyone for invitation....
3. Make a few good in game friends. They will tend to invite you.
4. Reroll healer - best way to be invited :P Or veen better go for Shaman after TBC.
1. Maybe those are runs organized by people from outside of your guild. People from guild might not be able to invite anyone.
2. Maybe there are people who are IRL friends and /or play togather for a long time, trust each other and play WoW to play it together. You can't realy blame them.
3. Maybe you are not from proper class. Hunters as far as I know are often seen as an addition to 5 men groups, or even as the least wanted class which is mistake in my opinion. Someone who makes group / raid must find healers and tanks first, after that DPS and AoEers. Hunters are a great utility class and nice DPS class but in 5 men instances often seen as not the best class to take.
4. Maybe your gear is not good enough. People tend to invite players who will give them best chance to succed. If they have to choose from two players with same skill but different gear they will usually choose the one better geared. You can't really blame them. They invest 2- 4 hours of their life so thay want to make a nice and smooth run.
5. Maybe some think you have not enough skill or your skill is an unknown quantity.
What you can do:
1. Improve your gear as much as you can. BGs are the easiest way to get VERY good epics now.
2. Start groups yopurself. I had a rogue friend who could not find groups because there were too many rogues around. All with better gear and many friends. He startred creating groups himself. This way he didn't ghave to ask anyone for invitation....
3. Make a few good in game friends. They will tend to invite you.
4. Reroll healer - best way to be invited :P Or veen better go for Shaman after TBC.
Try to have an objective look at the direction it's taking. If it looks like it'll improve over time, hang around and wait. People need time to get to work with each other sometimes. But if you have the feeling it won't improve, then leave and head for another guild.
However, you say you stay in the guild for a few friends. Have you asked how they thought about it? Is it the same for them, then head off for another guild together. If they get accepted just fine, ask them to bring you in. Or maybe they see things as ok, as you form your own clique with them.
I've been in my guild from the day the game came out, and actually long before that, only we called it a clan back then. Joined somewhere in 2000. We were pretty lenient with allowing friends to join the moment we moved to WoW, which allowed for a few cliques, but stuff grew together. Anyhow, I took a break for a few months, and during that time, the guild decided to raid, and a few other guilds merged into ours to get the numbers. When I came back, I suddenly noticed we were an international guild instead of an all-dutch guild, and felt a little uneasy with a lot of people in that I really didn't know about.
Anyhow, I decided for raiding, to reroll to dwarf priest (didn't like how raiding was for paladins at the time), so it took a little while before I actually played with the others. I really noticed some were kinda awkward about that lvl 1 joining a raiding guild, but most were friendly, and didn't mind helping me out here and there. After leveling my priest to 60, farming some blues and joining the raid, things settled down soon enough. Only got quite some comments about bringing in a lot of input for someone that was so new to raiding but that changed over time.
But if I were looking for a new guild and found most of the people in that guild basically ignoring me, I wouldn't feel happy. I'd pack my bags and move on.
However, you say you stay in the guild for a few friends. Have you asked how they thought about it? Is it the same for them, then head off for another guild together. If they get accepted just fine, ask them to bring you in. Or maybe they see things as ok, as you form your own clique with them.
I've been in my guild from the day the game came out, and actually long before that, only we called it a clan back then. Joined somewhere in 2000. We were pretty lenient with allowing friends to join the moment we moved to WoW, which allowed for a few cliques, but stuff grew together. Anyhow, I took a break for a few months, and during that time, the guild decided to raid, and a few other guilds merged into ours to get the numbers. When I came back, I suddenly noticed we were an international guild instead of an all-dutch guild, and felt a little uneasy with a lot of people in that I really didn't know about.
Anyhow, I decided for raiding, to reroll to dwarf priest (didn't like how raiding was for paladins at the time), so it took a little while before I actually played with the others. I really noticed some were kinda awkward about that lvl 1 joining a raiding guild, but most were friendly, and didn't mind helping me out here and there. After leveling my priest to 60, farming some blues and joining the raid, things settled down soon enough. Only got quite some comments about bringing in a lot of input for someone that was so new to raiding but that changed over time.
But if I were looking for a new guild and found most of the people in that guild basically ignoring me, I wouldn't feel happy. I'd pack my bags and move on.
You are dealing with a standard practice of group psychology. When the group no longer wants you, rather than confront you they agree to ignore you. This happens at companies that want to get rid of an employee, too. I have seen it done to people and it has been done to me.
You are supposed to understand the unspoken message and make arrangements to go away. I don't know why you are supposed to know since no one admits it, but they are always surprised that you don't understand. A lot of people miss the message for various reasons.
My advice is to find another guild. You know they are ignoring you, there is nothing to be gained by speaking up. Move on and find people compatible with your personality. The great thing about life is that almost everyone can find like-minded people if they look around. We call this falling into a bad crowd...
You are supposed to understand the unspoken message and make arrangements to go away. I don't know why you are supposed to know since no one admits it, but they are always surprised that you don't understand. A lot of people miss the message for various reasons.
My advice is to find another guild. You know they are ignoring you, there is nothing to be gained by speaking up. Move on and find people compatible with your personality. The great thing about life is that almost everyone can find like-minded people if they look around. We call this falling into a bad crowd...
Had this problem when part of a 400+ guild. I can empathize with how it angers and hurts simaltaneously.
Suggestion. Get on guild chat and say you forgot how to make "notes" in your info guild box. When advised by guildies how to do it take the opportunity to say a little bit about what you want to add in that box...which would be your best chance schedule days for running instances.
It breaks a bit of the chilly ice atmosphere and lets them know you do run instances although not too often due to RL commitments.
Suggestion. Get on guild chat and say you forgot how to make "notes" in your info guild box. When advised by guildies how to do it take the opportunity to say a little bit about what you want to add in that box...which would be your best chance schedule days for running instances.
It breaks a bit of the chilly ice atmosphere and lets them know you do run instances although not too often due to RL commitments.
Quote:
LOL I would of never thought of drama in a gaming world
Unfortunatly despite being a "gaming world" or "its just a game wtfomglolz" you are dealing with real, living people. People (sadly like myself) put a lot of themselves into advancing. The game is heavily based on building goals and reaching them. Which has its rewards and makes you feel good. So when you include any sort of emotion to something, you get all of them. If noone gave a damn about being good, and noone gave a damn about getting great gear, and noone gave a damn about accomplishing goals, and everyone got along; there would be no drama.
Ebonspine wrote:
If noone gave a damn about being good, and noone gave a damn about getting great gear, and noone gave a damn about accomplishing goals, and everyone got along; there would be no drama.
And not much of a game either, imho.
I was going to let this die a regular death, but since it got bumped... 
I quit the guild this morning. It's going to sound petty, but I've just gotten tired of the silence. I also came to realise that the instance issue was a symptom, not the cause. I say "good <insert time of day>" whenever I come on, and noticed a lack of responses. And I've realised it's not just me. People ding, announce it on guild chat, and you might get one or two "grats"es, when 15-20 people are on. A few nights ago, the only chat for over two hours online (guild chat or vent) was one guy spamming Damage f*cking Meters every 15 minutes while he was in BGs to show how he was #1 on his meter. I hit honored with Timbermaw a couple of nights ago, and did a "Yay!" on chat. Not one reply. I got emo and said, "Well, I thought it was an achievement, at least." Nobody responded. Fourteen people were on, only five being in an instance, and AFAIK, none AFK. I came on this morning, and severn people were on. I gave a "good morning", waited a few minutes, and tried again. No reply. /gquit. I decided I'd rather be guildless an not worry about what I've done to become ostracised than stay in the guild and try and figure out if it's me or just the general attitude these days.
Anyway, in response to most repliers, thanks for the suggestions. I took the possible reasons into account, and crossed off the ones I know are least likely to be the cause:
·Friends IRL- when I first joined it was very social, and most people knew each other through the previous guild. It's only since several members have left since I joined and a new wace of people has arrived that I've noticed this trend.
·Gear- I have gotten all 3 BoE Tier 0 pieces of the Beaststalker set and converted then to Beastmaster's, and saved for a Helm of Narv as well as a Scarlet Kris and an Eaglehorn Long Bow, worked my butt off for the Amulet of the Darkmoon- all things I could do without worrying about having to log off with short/no notice, and gotten a few BoP Blues as well. I have very few Uncommon items left, in fact.
·I may suck at my role- I gave this serious thought, but I keep coming back to the point that whenever I have joined a group, I usually get complimented on how I do. The only two exceptions for this were in UBRS, when I caused a wipe on Rend (my first time doing Rend), and another in UD Strat, when I caused the second of two wipes in the same area (the first was by someone else). Both times I apologised profusely, and got a "It's no big deal"-style response. Besides, I'm an ex-FFXIer. FFXI is very group-centric,. for those that have never played it. I take my role in groups very seriously, and it's also the main reason I hate joining any group if I can't promise to devote a whole run without "wife aggro". In FFXI, if you pulled out of a group after 1/2 hour to an hour, people got quite annoyed. Do it too often and you got a reputation. I also learned a lot of common-sense rules about groups and fighting in FFXI that carried over naturally to WoW.
·People may not know me well enough- I have been in the guild for almost three months now, ad have tried to be social within the guild whenever I have been on. A point was raised about my skill being an unknown quantity- that is a very valid point. I can be as social as I want while soloing, but a friendly guildie isn't always a skilled player. It's something I hadn't considered myself. However, I am always willing to join in interesting conversation, and most of the last month (or more, really) has been devoted to CC rep, Timbermaw rep, and farming Darkmoon Faire turn-in goods, so I haven't grouped much at all.
·They may be joining other guilds' instance runs- Well perhaps, but a lot of them are 5-man instances, and I always see four or five guildies running the same instance. It's often the same set of guildies (there's a pool of about 10 that always seem to mix & match), but as I said, it's a group of people that seem to only chat with each other, & group with each other.
And Poldaran, I appreciated your suggestion, but doing the whole whisper thing, to me, doesn't resolve the issue if I'm not the only one having this problem. It just potentially adds me to the group that's doing private invites, and keeping everyone else from the guild out.
Meh, I'll find another guild in time. In the meanwhile, I'll just keep doing what I do, and find some PuGs that hopefully don't suck. I mean, it's no worse than being in a guild and having to PuG, right?
Oh- rate ups for the people who gave helpful responses, and offered constuctive criticism (or played Devil's advocate!)
I quit the guild this morning. It's going to sound petty, but I've just gotten tired of the silence. I also came to realise that the instance issue was a symptom, not the cause. I say "good <insert time of day>" whenever I come on, and noticed a lack of responses. And I've realised it's not just me. People ding, announce it on guild chat, and you might get one or two "grats"es, when 15-20 people are on. A few nights ago, the only chat for over two hours online (guild chat or vent) was one guy spamming Damage f*cking Meters every 15 minutes while he was in BGs to show how he was #1 on his meter. I hit honored with Timbermaw a couple of nights ago, and did a "Yay!" on chat. Not one reply. I got emo and said, "Well, I thought it was an achievement, at least." Nobody responded. Fourteen people were on, only five being in an instance, and AFAIK, none AFK. I came on this morning, and severn people were on. I gave a "good morning", waited a few minutes, and tried again. No reply. /gquit. I decided I'd rather be guildless an not worry about what I've done to become ostracised than stay in the guild and try and figure out if it's me or just the general attitude these days.
Anyway, in response to most repliers, thanks for the suggestions. I took the possible reasons into account, and crossed off the ones I know are least likely to be the cause:
·Friends IRL- when I first joined it was very social, and most people knew each other through the previous guild. It's only since several members have left since I joined and a new wace of people has arrived that I've noticed this trend.
·Gear- I have gotten all 3 BoE Tier 0 pieces of the Beaststalker set and converted then to Beastmaster's, and saved for a Helm of Narv as well as a Scarlet Kris and an Eaglehorn Long Bow, worked my butt off for the Amulet of the Darkmoon- all things I could do without worrying about having to log off with short/no notice, and gotten a few BoP Blues as well. I have very few Uncommon items left, in fact.
·I may suck at my role- I gave this serious thought, but I keep coming back to the point that whenever I have joined a group, I usually get complimented on how I do. The only two exceptions for this were in UBRS, when I caused a wipe on Rend (my first time doing Rend), and another in UD Strat, when I caused the second of two wipes in the same area (the first was by someone else). Both times I apologised profusely, and got a "It's no big deal"-style response. Besides, I'm an ex-FFXIer. FFXI is very group-centric,. for those that have never played it. I take my role in groups very seriously, and it's also the main reason I hate joining any group if I can't promise to devote a whole run without "wife aggro". In FFXI, if you pulled out of a group after 1/2 hour to an hour, people got quite annoyed. Do it too often and you got a reputation. I also learned a lot of common-sense rules about groups and fighting in FFXI that carried over naturally to WoW.
·People may not know me well enough- I have been in the guild for almost three months now, ad have tried to be social within the guild whenever I have been on. A point was raised about my skill being an unknown quantity- that is a very valid point. I can be as social as I want while soloing, but a friendly guildie isn't always a skilled player. It's something I hadn't considered myself. However, I am always willing to join in interesting conversation, and most of the last month (or more, really) has been devoted to CC rep, Timbermaw rep, and farming Darkmoon Faire turn-in goods, so I haven't grouped much at all.
·They may be joining other guilds' instance runs- Well perhaps, but a lot of them are 5-man instances, and I always see four or five guildies running the same instance. It's often the same set of guildies (there's a pool of about 10 that always seem to mix & match), but as I said, it's a group of people that seem to only chat with each other, & group with each other.
And Poldaran, I appreciated your suggestion, but doing the whole whisper thing, to me, doesn't resolve the issue if I'm not the only one having this problem. It just potentially adds me to the group that's doing private invites, and keeping everyone else from the guild out.
Meh, I'll find another guild in time. In the meanwhile, I'll just keep doing what I do, and find some PuGs that hopefully don't suck. I mean, it's no worse than being in a guild and having to PuG, right?
Oh- rate ups for the people who gave helpful responses, and offered constuctive criticism (or played Devil's advocate!)
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