Premades - Do they hurt the game?Follow

Isn't blizzard implementing a rating system to put BG teams against each other that are similarly geared and ranked?

Or is that limited to Arena matches?

From the very few BG's i have played in my day, I have found i have NO problem with the Premade groups

If

They would just freaking end the game as soon as possible, that crap where they farm HK's and honor, god help them. It ruins the game for everyone else.

Just freaking cap the flag, take your effortless win, and move on to the next group. NOOOO you have to farm the graveyard, and make everyone miserable.

Thus, this is why i dont pvp. Im generally a very light hearted person, but when this crap starts happening, it breaks my heart and i just quit.

And for that reason ALONE i have have not stepped foot in a BG for almost 6 months.

Yes, which is why I love premades. For once I can actually not get #1 on the healing meter from Bloodthirst and Bandages!

If the average PUG player knew their place in a team and did it, there wouldn't be a need for premades. As it is, though, the average PUG player is not a team player, they're 10 or 15 different soloers.

Nope, they're about running around like a chicken with it's head cut off expecting to win.

Edited, Dec 14th 2006 5:36pm by Ruyoayo

Um, in response to the Original question:

No, pre-mades do not hurt the game, but they might bruise your ego here and there if you're stuck playing in PuGs.

:p

Nice, I see Blizzard appointed you the PvP God and you get to decide what is and isn't PvP. I always thought PvP was player versus combat, whether that be in a Battleground, out in the world, premade or pug.

Just because you pug doesn't mean you don't practice or try to improve. Why do I usually pug? Lots of reasons. One reason is sometimes I just hop on for a game or two and don't really have time or energy to try putting a team together. I also haven't met that many people I feel like grouping with, definetely not enough for a 10 or 15 man PvP team. I also like the quality of games better.

When I have played on a premade and from what I've read/seen it usually goes like this for most teams. Premade queues up and if they get a pug they stay, if it's another premade they take the other BG they queued up for or lose on purpose. Why? They're in the BG for the most effective Honor gain so they can get the phat loot. I can't really blame them for getting what they want, as fast as they can. I guess with the new system there will be less need to do that but I don't know.

If you are in a premade and face a pug it's usually an easy win. If you face another team it can be a good game but it seems you face a lot more pugs than premades, at least in my Battlegroup. So your quality of games in terms of challenge are few and far between. In a pug I see a lot other pugs and those are usually good games. I see some premades as well but those are usually either real quick or sometimes end up really close.

I don't have any problems with premades and I have done some PvP on teams myself but in my opinion it's the easy road in terms of BGs. Reason being is there are more pugs than teams and some teams will leave games against other teams just to get a pug. There's nothing wrong with easy mode but I get tired of seeing people try to say if you pug you aren't a real PvPer, because pugging takes a lot more than skill than fighting with any premade will.

Oh I see you hitting you provoke macro; the combat log never lies.

In the past people would often say that because of higher tiers at 60 that twinks were ok. I usually just respong with "one does no justify or 'unjustify' (word?) the other." This was becaus eI didn't want to get involved in two totally separate arguements about the situation at 60 and at lower levels simultaneously. I'm only one person.

I'll respond to Jord's question now.

There are several key differences. The two which I feel are most improtant are as follows.

1. Raiding is an end in itself. People raid for fun, it is content bliizard designed for players to experience. Gear is a result of that raiding, and people are going to take their best gear into pvp. Twinking however is a means to an end. One does not simply obtain twink gear because it is cool to look at it or they somehow enjoy farming for it, htey do it specifically intending to obtain a significant advantage in pvp. That is why I say the best instance blues are perfectly fine for a pvp alt but enchants aren't. Because instancing is content in itself.

That justifies the disparity at 60 and not in twink situations. I'm not saying that all raiders specifically with the intention of only enjoying the raid and without really thinking about getting better pvp gear. I am saying that the whole aspect of raiding itself factors at least partly into the decision of a player. Someone may raid and never pvp. No one will ever twink out an alt (one they aren't planning on simply leveling) without intending to do BG with it.

Since Webjunky loves analogies I'll provide one. There's two guys, guy a and guy b. Their parents were not very creative due to lack of art in our schools. Guy A challenges guy B to a race. In one situation guy B likes to play basketball a lot and is consequently a very good runner, he wins easily. Here something he enjoys helped him in something else (raiding helping someone in pvp). In another situation guy b trains specifically for the race and wins easily. In the second scenario he was only cared about beating his friend and had no reason to train other than to become better.

I can't blame someone who raids for going into PvP with great gear. They did something fun and simply ended up with it, now there are doing something else fun. But twinks you can't argue even in the slightest that they "accidentally" end up with good gear. Twinks make a very direct decision to gain a serious advantage in pvp.


2. The second way 60s and twinks differ. High tier armor more or less keeps the game the same as it was before. Classes still function the same way, they still have the same relationships with each other. Twinks mutilate the game. My problem with twinks has never been the unfairness, but the way they change the game into soemthing that isn't WoW, soemthing I didn't sign up to play. Twink classes don't work the same way in relation to each other as other classes do. A twink rogue versus a twink mage is a very different battle than a rogue versus a mage. Even a twink rogue versus a twink rogue is different than rogue versus rogue.




I'm willing to continue this discussion if Jordster, Webjunky, or anyone else should care to, but I feel that the differences between twinks and 60 tier armor is not within the scope of the validity of premades.

Eh? Please elaborate.

There's anticipation, but that's different than content. I enjoy looking up and reasearching gear as well, but it is the same as a kid dreaming about what he gets for christmas.


Raiding is content. It is activity in the game Blizzard provides to entertain players. Leveling is content, darkmoon fair is content, Tonks are cotnent. Getting excited about what gear you're going to equip on your character is not content. It is..well..excitement.


You and I are just a couple of R&D nerds aren't we?^^

You seem a bit cold, let me get you a jacket, oh and don't mind the velcro straps.


As hilarious as you are^^ I think we are getting way too off subject, I can feel the forum ***** leering.

so yeah I think premades are good and stuff. mmhmm that's some good on topic posting there.

If you're pugging, you aren't playing at your best as an entire team.



So you don't know enough good pvpers and havent made the proper connections to get a 10-man/15-man team going for a couple games? Sorry, but that's a lame excuse.



So I guess you haven't read about proper premades that roll through the type of people who get a few people and hop ship when they see we're all from the same server.

I can't wait until this "new system" gets in, which won't fix anything.



By "good game" in the context of a pug v. pug I can only imagine you mean you didn't get slaughtered, because both of the sides played equally as poorly as the other.



Do you honestly believe that pugging takes more skill than being in a premade?
If you're so skilled, why don't you beat the premades then?

Maybe you mean you could, in a 1 vs. 1 scenario, defeat members of the premade, so you think you have more skill. This couldn't be further from the truth. Premades understand the concepts of the battlegrounds, and know it isn't really about killing a member of the opposing faction at all. Good job, you made it to the top of the KB chart, you have more skill than me.

I think Allegory's second example (the twink scenario) would be that B's wealthy parents bought B Hyperfast Cyberlegs just so B could beat A.
That's the twinking scenario.