Twinks, what's thei purpose?Follow

I have a semi-twink Hunter that I'm working on, and it's not because I have a small ***** (I don't have one...) and need to make my epeen bigger, it isn't because I enjoy oneshotting people - it's because the lower level battlegrounds, especially the 20-29 ones are more fun. At the upper end, people were so focused on ranks and winning that it stopped being fun.

I'm not going to say that I'll go in with whites and greens, but I'm not going to go in there in all blues and ruin the fun either.

I'd say full twinking is much the same, sure, some people want to show off - but others just want a break from the 60ish brackets. Plus, I like helping lowbies in the bottom brackets learn how to play rather than just yelling 'omg noob stfu and L2P!'

*Shrug* I won't deny the odd oneshot being enjoyable, but it happens with fully geared warriors, hunters and mages etc. in the 51+ brackets when you come in at a low level.

Twinks are also good for making money - swiftness pots, free action pots, lowish blue gear are all way to make money. So before you judge, realise they have more use than making certain battlegrounds unbearable, they're an important way to get money for mounts and all the rest.

sticking to the OP - the purpose of a twink is for someone who has a high lvl character(typically 60) to experience low level BGs. To enhance their fun/ego they equip their new low level alt with blues and enchants resulting in an overpowered but still mortal toon. Twinks as you'll see from the posts above cause a lot of ire as some players (often the more impoverished) think that (and of course it does) cause an imbalance in game dynamics. However they are still mortal and can be killed (you'll just need to modify your tactics) and are as likely to be on your side as the others. Blizz has also consistently said that they see twinks as a viable component to the game - that might have shifted if the in BG XP reports are true.
In a nutshell Twinks are for either (1) fun, the hostile twinks not yours; or (2) ego, the hostile twinks not yours.

Sigh twink defences...they're just so weak.

You're never going to find fair in a BG. There will always be one side with an advantage. There is however a difference between the constant and tolerable unfair, and broken.

I have no problem with an unfair BG match. level differences, arranged teams versuses pugs, that's all fine. Broken is not simply unfair, the game changes. It's no longer fun.

FTFY.

New players are far less vocal for several reasons. First in that they probably don't udnerstand what is going on. They see they are dying, but they don't know why they are dying so quickly, and chalk it up to being new. Second even if they know what is going on they may not know where to express their frustrations. They may not know about message boards.

Experienced players complain as well, but to say they want to compete without putting in effort is laughable. I'm relatively experienced. I have all the gold required to made a dual crusader twink. I have the people connections required to run me through WC and VC to get the best BoPs. I have the time to level up a character to 19 (although I already have quite a few around that level, altism ftw). I also have the drive to do this, as I've things that require so much more effort in FFXI already. I have everything required to make make a twink, but I don't and I hate twinks. I'd love to say I don't make a twink because I care abotu the feelings of others in BG and don't want to ruin it for them, but I'm not that altruistic. Twinking breaks the game and I don't find palying a broken game any fun. There are people who played teh starcraft campaigns legitimately, not everyone types in "poweroverwhelming" you know?

Again you fail to see the difference between unfair/difficult and broken. A level 15 quest that a level 15 receives and cannot complete because of poor gear or play is fine. It's difficult, but that's fine. A level 15 getting a level 30 quest which unintentionally requires him to have a level 30 friend help him complete is broken.





I'll face a level 19 rogue in lots of blues as I play an 18 rogue in mainly greens without complaint and even happily lose to him. This is a difficlt situation, maybe something a little unfair, but I'm fine with that. A heavily enchanted twink rogue though I'll "complain" about even if I win. BEcause the former situation is fun and the latter isn't.

I realize there's a priest twink that has replied in this thread, but that's the first non-melee twink I've encountered while leveling four toons through each of the brackets. I try the 10-19, and 20-29 brackets for humor though.

Every twink (and let's be honest, many non-twinks as well) have done little to nothing to enhance the team. And now I read some twinks actually *complain* that people want to win the bg's? Twinks have been honest in this thread, I'll be honest as well. I am one of those "Oh fer pity SAKE. Can we end this game PLEASE?!" I can only come to one conclusion.

Twinks are in bg's to take advantage of the high concentration of players they will be able to kill with relative ease. It's all about the killing blows, fish in a barrel as it were. Twinks take advantage of the relatively high concentration of players you'll be able to kill with ease and the lack of escape. They could accomplish the same thing out in the world, assuming a pvp server, but I've now been on a pvp server and for the most part, they don't. Truth be told, I've only rarely even *seen* an opposite faction player out in world.

I guess this dead horse thread has accomplished at least something. I can be annoyed twinks join BG's to get KB's, but I guess if that's the game you want to play, it's within the bounds of Blizzard. Understand there is a distinct conflict of objective here. It is in the twinks best interest to prolong the game as long as possible. It's in the teams best interest to get it over as soon as possible.

No idea what can be done about it, but at least I know what the problem is now.

Not having read the above posts, only because I can still remember other such twink threads and I am sure the topic and conversations are the exact same, I will throw my two cents in in a related matter about twinks, battlegrounds and the faction you choose.

I am a allie peep, but recently made a horde priest to BG with. I wanted to see what it is directly which makes horde a dominant force in battlegrounds outside of AV ofcourse.

Two things I have encountered which I have never on the allies side.

1. A guild which recruited me after a battleground on my server, which wanted to twink me out, provided I was willing to not level anymore. They needed a priest and enjoyed my heals I suppose.

2. Massive botters, using speed hacks and the such.

Not saying horde's are cheaters in general...but the sheer organization of guilds willing to twink out others is something you just don't see on the allies side. I didn't see a anything different really in battlegrounds as far as playstyle. Less people complaining... hordes just seemed to do thier job and let the allies implode apon themselves.

Maybe we could have twink BG's and none twink BG's . I know my son and I are fed up with being killed in 3 hits by ubber twinks.

No fun , whats the point.

I found a fair ***** in the twink-only guild's armour.. someone I know created a twink alt, joined a 'twink-only' guild.. and they spend all their time asking lvl60's to run them through instances because they want the BoP blues but they're too low to get them without help.. :os

All true. I'd say that the main reason people don't show up in good gear for a BG is that they either don't know (new to the game) or don't care (just taking a break from leveling). I think you're kind of targeting that last one at me.^^

BTW thank you Poldaran for going into this level headed, I got way too wound up and needed a reminder of what a rational person looks like.



I really can't fathom why Blizzard hasn't introduced gear matching sooner, if not for twink gripes then for 60 tier gripes. It is one solution that I really think everyone can be reasonably satisfied with and not really have a legitimate compalint.

Meh, someone has to be level headed.

In another thread, Mazra said we were all a little weird to be able to survive here. It's not true. I'm perfectly normal. The rest of you, however, are plum loco.



I want gear matching so badly it hurts. The only people gear matching would really ***** are the twinks who are there to "pwn nubs" as they don't have anyone to "pwn" anymore and the scrubs(damn you Jord for getting that word into my vocabulary) who show up low level and undergeared with no idea how to play their classes as they will likely get placed with many decent non twinks and will no longer have any excuse for why they lost.

And you know what I have to say to those bastids?

Fuck em.

This sentence makes me worried that you’re projecting the attitudes, opinions and statements of others onto me rather than fully engaging with what I’ve written. Let’s discuss this as friends, and not poison the well with blanket statements like this.



Perhaps the difference in our perspectives is the level of challenge we experience as fun. I enjoy uphill fights, the tougher the better, because the emotional payoff is so much higher when you win. Rolling a bunch of noobs is relatively unsatisfying to me compared to outthinking experienced, well-geared opponents.

I’m not a twink by the strict definition. 99% of the time I’ve spent in the battlegrounds has been with my main on Runetotem and my main on Garithos. Both were equipped solely with gear I found or purchased with them, for them. And neither spent much time in the 19 or 29s brackets.

However, they were extremely well geared for their brackets, and I camped 30-39 and 40-49 with them for ages. Considering the effort I put into, say, running and rerunning RFD to get the Coldrage Dagger, or the time I spent getting Engineering to 300 so that my Battle Chicken and other engineering pets would be forces to fear, I felt obliged to get all the benefit from those items that I could, rather than level past their usefulness immediately.

I played PUGs mostly, and I lived for the times when I’d be thrown in against organized groups on Vent--I got to know the PVP guilds on my servers and in my battlegroup pretty quickly. Then winning was a real challenge, and when my team coordinated well enough to win against those monsters, I felt all my effort was worthwhile.

From my perspective, twinking is a good thing because it gives me opponents who give me a challenge even when I bring my best game. I hope that gear matching is implemented, because it will put me in that kind of situation more often.

I feel some sympathy for people who find my well-geared characters more of a challenge than is fun for them, but frankly, I’d be insulted to think that anyone was bringing less to the table than they could simply to spare my feelings. There’s nothing quite so maddening as when people condescend to let you win at a game instead of playing to win themselves. So by the Golden Rule, I show my respect for my opponents by giving them stiff competition, not some misguided measure of mercy.

Hopefully they learn from the experience, as I try to.



I’ve tried to point out to tell you there’s another reason. Some new players, such as myself, expect to get slaughtered, and value the experience because you can learn more from a loss than you can from a win. Those early twinks teach you much more than how to lose gracefully. For example, they teach you the amazing power of crowd control in team PVP.



Not everyone wants to play on “easy” setting either. For some, even “hard” isn’t hard enough.Some like “impossible”. I sure do.

Incidentally, is the whole “fixed this for you” gambit ever meant to be anything but rude and insulting? Can we please keep this on a more civil tack?



Here we must simply disagree. I’ve never faced a team that my team could not, in theory, defeat through superior play. The upset games where PUGs made of me and assorted midlevel chars managed to squeak out victories over well-organized high levels were few, but remain my favorite WoW moments, especially if my own contribution was instrumental to winning.

If that’s broken, don’t fix it. ‘cause it’s my favorite part of the game.

The only advice I can offer to someone who can’t stand a near-impossible challenge is to not bang your head against the concrete wall of the 19 and 29 bgs. 39 and 49 are currently the battlegrounds with the least gear disparity, and will remain so until the BC introduces a ton of enchants that can be placed on lvl. 35+ gear.

I'd say in lvl 19 and 29 BGs that's completely false.

In lvl 19 BGs you can have a skilled group of decently geared players that won't have a prayer against a skilled twink group. Zero chance.

Twinks ruin BGs, there is no way around it.
Now, if Twinks managed to get their own BGs, or if Enchants were levelrestricted like EVERY SINGLE OTHER PROFESSION, things would be far more balanced. I really don't mind going up against a well-geared player when I play my alts. What I do mind, is going up against a player who is well geared, and then enchanted so hard that it takes five or more normal players to take him out. It completely negates the "Win through Skill" part of the Battlegrounds.

A well geared player, with the enchants that can be REASONABLY afforded, will definately be a foe to be wary of. You will have to play your character very well to defeat such a fella. A well geared player with enchants that only a level 60 can afford, is a foe you can pretty much give up all hope on.

I played BGs on my Rogue in three brackets. 10-19, 20-29, and 30-39. My Rogue was my main on that server, simply because I wanted to try playing a character the way it was meant to be played in the BGs. And I was devastated. In the 19 tier, I had no chance whatsoever against the Twinks. I had a few nice greenies, and a few lowbie +stam enchants, lovingly provided from the guild I was in. No chance whatsoever against a Twink. I did everything I could, used every skill available to a Rogue, and I MIGHT be able to get him down to 80% before he had Sinister Strikeloled me to death. The Enchants were simply way to powerful for that level.

At 29, things looked slightly different. I played with some fairly decent gear, since I had planned ahead. A guildie helped me get Triprunner Dungarees, and wonder of wonders, I found a Claw of the Shadowmancer at the AH for a measly 3 gold. No enchants, except Minor Runspeed. I killed almost every Twink I encountered. The reason? I had to learn how to play my class. I managed to utilize every skill I had and I knew how to improvise. The Twinks mainly chased me, and Sinister Striked. (What the other Twink classes did, I am not sure, I just saw Paladins use BoF alot)

The conclusion I made, was that Twinks suck. In the 19 BGs, I lost and lost every single time, simply because some immature little brat played God with the money his 60 earned him. In the 29 Battlegrounds, things were different. Because he never learned to play, he lost. The difference in Stats and such were slightly diminished, even with the Enchants, and we both had alot more class skills to use. He still went around Sinister Striking me with his Lightsabers, while I managed to use my skills and daggers so that I managed to control the fight. Skill won over gear.

So, just a quick message to the Twinks out there:
Go play in the 20-29/30-39 Battlegrounds, you won't be quite as godlike, but you just might avoid ruining the BGs for all the normal players out there.

North
-Dearly hoping the Enchant-Level restriction comes soon.