Before I get started I'd just like to say that I'm putting this up for discussion based on what I've experienced thus far in AB. Even though I am relatively new at WoW, I do have experience in other MMO's and other strategy genres so I don't consider myself a complete idiot. If you're going to flame or call me a newb or nuub or any of the other iterations, please refrain from doing so as I'm only posting this to try and help our situation.
Like most of you, when ever I go to AB, Alliance losses 95% of the time. I usually go into AB with my 49 hunter.
Initially I thought that straight defense was the key. Get 3 nodes and defend right?... Wrong. The horde would just gather up a sizeable force and take the node from us.
Then while I was on defense I started calling out enemy movements. "4 inc to LM from Farm" for example. Before you know it other people started communicating, I've noticed that as soon as one person tries to let people know what is going on they start to communicate a little more. Though most of the time no one reacted, I did start to see some improvements even though we still lost. Instead of 800/2000 we were now losing 1600/2000.
A few days ago I decided to try something new and it worked 4 times in a row and has continued working at least in the AB's I've joined.
Basically it consists of a delicate balance of offense and defense. Having several people defending the nodes and a few people on offense. Consider it as if it were suppressing fire.
When you apply suppressing fire on an enemy location it limits their movement and forces them to defend while other members of your unit flank them. By applying just a little bit of pressure at the right moments you effectively deny the enemy of mounting an offensive.
Most of the time after you get 3 nodes everyone will shout to stay put and defend what we have which is a great strategy at the very beginning of the match. Generally the first horde assault consists of a large number. Its not enough to call out inc if you are outnumbered so what I've tried doing was the following:
If I'm at a node that has a large group incoming, I call out from where and how many. If there are several people with me, I tell them to stay put near the flag while I ride out and run right though them and engage in the rear of their ranks. (This is where I might be wrong but as I stated earlier, it has been working and I'm just trying to develop a strategy to even the playing field.)
This has 2 effects, if we are out numbered a) it makes the horde group stop to attack me and b) it gives nearby nodes some added time to reinforce the node being attacked. By the time I rez they are just starting their attack and I can quickly assist the other defenders. That is assuming they don't cap the flag. This also only works if the rest of the defenders stay to protect the flag. So technically 1 person sacrifices themselves while the other protect the flag.
If I'm at a node and another node calls out that they have incoming, I assess the situation. If I am too far away to help them directly then the only way to help indirectly is to stop the flow of horde attacking that node. What I tried to do, it actually works pretty well, is to take 1 or 2 other players with me and attack a lightly defended enemy node. This is preferably done right as they are leaving because if they already started fighting, chances are that you'll have several of them rez right on top of you.
This has several effects a) the horde players defending call out inc which forces the people that just left that node to either stop their attack and either b)return to defend or to c)press on the attack and let it be taken. If a few of them return to defend, then you have just weakened the attack on our node. If they continue attacking then you can easily take the node from them causing them to rez farther away and it forces them to come back and reclaim it while you reinforce your nodes.
For example, say we control LM, Stables and Mine. I'm in LM and see the horde ride off to mine from farm and leave 1 or 2 defending farm. After calling out their movement, I get another player to assist me and I ride into the farm right as they are leaving. (In case you are wondering, I never leave if I'm the only person there defending) If we take the farm, that immediately forces them to come back and many times it causes the enemy at the BS to leave it to reclaim the farm. Leaving it lightly guarded. I hope you see where I'm going with this. As soon as someone from our stables sees that there are hordies leaving the BS, hit the BS with one or 2.
I've found this has sort of a ripple effect. Once you disrupt the Horde from their normal tactics they fall into disarray and it takes them a long time to regroup. Sometimes, by just riding around in circles on my mount next to the enemy flag forces them to divert people from their offense to their defense and prevents them from attacking nearby nodes which gives us time to prepare for anything they throw at us.
Another thing I've noticed, and this goes back to the beginning of the post, this concept also works when they are preparing to launch an attack. You can disrupt it by riding out to meet them. Think of yourself as the suppressing shot, you are sacrificing yourself to give your teammates the opportunity to prepare whether it is reinforcing a node before an attack or by disrupting enemy reinforcements.
Thanks for reading, I know its long but I've given this a lot of thought and would like the more experienced players in PvP to post their thoughts.
·Theme
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- General Discussion
- AB Tactics... I think I stumbled onto something...
AB Tactics... I think I stumbled onto something...Follow
Communication is the key to all 3 battlegrounds. Period.
This is essentially the same strategy I use in AB (horde side). It entirely hinges on people talking. If they talk, we win. If they don't, we lose.
Take a look at a lot of the premade/guild groups. Most of them are on vent, which allows for much greater ease of communication.
This is essentially the same strategy I use in AB (horde side). It entirely hinges on people talking. If they talk, we win. If they don't, we lose.
Take a look at a lot of the premade/guild groups. Most of them are on vent, which allows for much greater ease of communication.
Alliance gets really upset when they loose stables, they will rush the stable for hours with no end leaving all the other nodes uncared for wich evidently makes horde win
thats basicly whats been happening for me every time i play AB
thats basicly whats been happening for me every time i play AB
I have noticed that a few alliance players just camp AFK and wait to lose. Nothing helps the horde like AFK losers.
But assuming you have a team of winners, the way to win Arathi is to constantly assault more bases. If the horde attacks one place, you attack another. You have to constantly capture new bases. The trick is figuring out how many people to send and how many to defend.
Yes, it is true that the alliance typically try to defend three bases and wind up with just the stables. You have to always be on the move and grabbing bases from the horde. A static defence of three bases presumes that you can beat the horde head-to-head. If that is true, why not take all five? If it is not true, then hit-and-run is the only alternative.
But assuming you have a team of winners, the way to win Arathi is to constantly assault more bases. If the horde attacks one place, you attack another. You have to constantly capture new bases. The trick is figuring out how many people to send and how many to defend.
Yes, it is true that the alliance typically try to defend three bases and wind up with just the stables. You have to always be on the move and grabbing bases from the horde. A static defence of three bases presumes that you can beat the horde head-to-head. If that is true, why not take all five? If it is not true, then hit-and-run is the only alternative.
Communication doesn't matter in Alterac Valley. Speed is what matters there. The strategy is very simple and it is a matter of who can move faster :).
14 posts
I'm not sure about this, so someone with more experience please assess this strategy. Take grp 1 and establish it at one base (stables, mine or lm), combine grps 2&3, and have them sweep between 2 or 3 other bases. This way, we have a decent defensive force at one base, and should have horde outnumbered wherever the big group goes. By sweeping back and forth between 2 (poss 3, although that may be stretching our luck) the hordies might have time to assault the one being left, but possibly not enough time to actually have it captured. Of course, any strategy depends on getting all the troops to follow it, which in my experience is the #1 stumbling block the Alliance faces.
A variation would be to have the defensive grp of 5 move to the swarm's 2nd to last target as the swarm moves away from its last target to a fourth point, because I find that any defensive force that stands still eventually gets swarmed.
A variation would be to have the defensive grp of 5 move to the swarm's 2nd to last target as the swarm moves away from its last target to a fourth point, because I find that any defensive force that stands still eventually gets swarmed.
the way to win is you take one group of 10 people, to LM, 5 to BS
the 10 people rape any attack at LM and contiunues to farm, if LM is taken afterwards they go back to LM
when farm gets taken back, they rape farm again and go back and fourth
the 5 that take BS go between mine and BS, if too many gets to BS, the 10 rape BS.
just rush back and fourth leaving hordies to be all like "wtf is going on they dont play by the rules"
the 10 people rape any attack at LM and contiunues to farm, if LM is taken afterwards they go back to LM
when farm gets taken back, they rape farm again and go back and fourth
the 5 that take BS go between mine and BS, if too many gets to BS, the 10 rape BS.
just rush back and fourth leaving hordies to be all like "wtf is going on they dont play by the rules"
best defense is offense...
basicly 3 def at each node and the rest group up, moving as 1 for offensive movement and ofc. answer the inc. calls from the defenders, and yes communication is key to succes but also with a little strategy imo
so this post really have nothing to add to OP or the rest of the replies.
Grtzz
basicly 3 def at each node and the rest group up, moving as 1 for offensive movement and ofc. answer the inc. calls from the defenders, and yes communication is key to succes but also with a little strategy imo
so this post really have nothing to add to OP or the rest of the replies.
Grtzz
5 posts
Action is Faster than any Reaction.
Either the posters on this forum are the elite few Alliance members that know what the heck to do or I'm just very unlucky with PuG in AB... I ALWAYS try to keep them attacking and only leaving a few behind to watch (not defend but slow down an attack until help arrives), but nobody ever listens. Correction: They've listened twice and we have won twice. I've only one twice when I was without a twinked guild or a well organized one that just excludes me completely (I think they are probably using vent or teamspeak).
17 posts
this tactic can only be used if you have a team communicating. I see a few things in AB:
1. alliance are born farmers, everyone always goes for farm, they cap farm, horde caps AND LM, AND BS, AND Stables and if they feel like it take goldmine too because they need to lvl mining ;)
2. If alliance actually READ THEIR CHAT they mostly win, mostly nobody ever realises 2 people out of 15 are trying to put some tactics together.
3. When you hear people literally saying: 'lets farm HK and dont give a f#ck about bases and resources!' (I got screenshot of someone saying this in slightly other words) you know at once why alliance loses...
well, all I can say is that in any case the point to win is to. C O M M U N I C A T E. but this tactic does sound like it discovered the missing part in the AB tactics Im trying (cap 3 bases and defend them, pref got mine, ST, BS but with a good team u can manage mine, ST, LM. With a premade versus pug u could manage farm, mine, BS)but I havnt got much opportunity to try flaws and good points in tactics since nobody ever remotely tries to listen anyway.
If I ever can find a team that uses their chat Ill try proposing this as tactic. Pray for me it ever ocurres...
1. alliance are born farmers, everyone always goes for farm, they cap farm, horde caps AND LM, AND BS, AND Stables and if they feel like it take goldmine too because they need to lvl mining ;)
2. If alliance actually READ THEIR CHAT they mostly win, mostly nobody ever realises 2 people out of 15 are trying to put some tactics together.
3. When you hear people literally saying: 'lets farm HK and dont give a f#ck about bases and resources!' (I got screenshot of someone saying this in slightly other words) you know at once why alliance loses...
well, all I can say is that in any case the point to win is to. C O M M U N I C A T E. but this tactic does sound like it discovered the missing part in the AB tactics Im trying (cap 3 bases and defend them, pref got mine, ST, BS but with a good team u can manage mine, ST, LM. With a premade versus pug u could manage farm, mine, BS)but I havnt got much opportunity to try flaws and good points in tactics since nobody ever remotely tries to listen anyway.
If I ever can find a team that uses their chat Ill try proposing this as tactic. Pray for me it ever ocurres...
7 posts
I agree. People tend to focus on where the big battles take place. Instead, let them take the node, and go grab two other lightly defended ones. WSG is where huge groups matter because it allows you to wipe out stragglers and easily capture the flag and protect it. Not so much in AB because when you do that you leave tons of other spots open to attack. Horde wins when they do it however because we immediately engage their huge mob rather than grabbing the lumber mill while they grab the stables or taking the mine while they scramble to take the blacksmith. Its all about mobilization in AB and attacking the weak spots. People act like certain spots have an advantage.
I like the strategy above... 2-3 at each of 3 bases... the rest in a 'raid group'.
Pick 3 places and snag them ASAP. Then spend the rest of the time taking the raid group from LM, to mine, to stables...
Another things that I REALLY notice... is the complete lack of people grouping up. Once a place is lost, everyone stops paying attention to common sense and stream one by one into a group of 8+ Horde...
Which is my next question/comment, they ALWAYS seem to take the stables... so frequently that it MUST be part of the strategy. Then we'll have 11 people at the mine, 1 at the LM, and 4 people being owned over and over again by 8 Horde that kill them as they come out of Trollbane Hall. Yet, when I requst help at the stables, people tell me that I'm being a moron and forget the stables... yea... except they've taken 4-5 of our people completely out of the fight. Before it's 1/2 over, I'm rezzing in the middle of 3 waiting horde, and they just keep killing our rezzers one by one... there might be 8 people rezzing, but one at a time and unbuffed... dead...
Pick 3 places and snag them ASAP. Then spend the rest of the time taking the raid group from LM, to mine, to stables...
Another things that I REALLY notice... is the complete lack of people grouping up. Once a place is lost, everyone stops paying attention to common sense and stream one by one into a group of 8+ Horde...
Which is my next question/comment, they ALWAYS seem to take the stables... so frequently that it MUST be part of the strategy. Then we'll have 11 people at the mine, 1 at the LM, and 4 people being owned over and over again by 8 Horde that kill them as they come out of Trollbane Hall. Yet, when I requst help at the stables, people tell me that I'm being a moron and forget the stables... yea... except they've taken 4-5 of our people completely out of the fight. Before it's 1/2 over, I'm rezzing in the middle of 3 waiting horde, and they just keep killing our rezzers one by one... there might be 8 people rezzing, but one at a time and unbuffed... dead...
3 nodes to take must be able to be defended later on, bad setups are:
LM, GM, St/F
BS, F, St
3 of the edge nodes without BS, i.e. - LM (GM is the worst here), St, F
I have seen far too many ABs where alliance/horde pulls this and then gets smashed later on, reason being 2 of the nodes will be too far away to defend from a focused attack and subject to feints. Best setup imo is GM, BS, St/F, but thats weak to mass LM as it leaves your BS open if they feint GM and you bite.
Like other people said, AB is all based on communication and your ability to ROTATE your Defense, plain and simple.
The reason why BS is so key is of scouting, being able to see and call incs from any res node, except maybe the LM node.
LM, GM, St/F
BS, F, St
3 of the edge nodes without BS, i.e. - LM (GM is the worst here), St, F
I have seen far too many ABs where alliance/horde pulls this and then gets smashed later on, reason being 2 of the nodes will be too far away to defend from a focused attack and subject to feints. Best setup imo is GM, BS, St/F, but thats weak to mass LM as it leaves your BS open if they feint GM and you bite.
Like other people said, AB is all based on communication and your ability to ROTATE your Defense, plain and simple.
The reason why BS is so key is of scouting, being able to see and call incs from any res node, except maybe the LM node.
This is the best strategy the problem is taking it from the page and into the BG, most pug groups will fall apart real quick. When I've won AB they key has been to take the BS and sit about 10 of the players there leaving skeleton crew defenses at LM, GM, and Stables. From the BS you can see most attacks incoming to LM, GM, or BS and then people just head for where the big horde group is going.
3 posts
Okay, your point? Because us Horde will always win. I have been watching you alliance while I do AB, not all of you are bad, but 80 percent of you are. All you fools do is HK farm. And if you do try to get nodes you send in one person to get it. Put it like this, ALLIANCE SUCK!!!!
24 posts
wowwiki has a wall of text regarding this issue.
27 posts
another reason you guys lose so much is because almost everyone in this post has a different strategy just go with one and even if it sucks it will be better then everyone disagreeing sorry i'm helping you...I'M HORDE =)lol(=
That's because you're involved in a discussion of strategy, what people see, experience, and would like changed. As you said, if people IN the battleground would even attempt ANY of the above strategies, it would be better.
Instead, you get 2 guys running around like Rambo, 2 guys trying to tag some building for a quest reward, and 6 guys left to defend the whole place, and all 6 end up at the mine... lol...
Instead, you get 2 guys running around like Rambo, 2 guys trying to tag some building for a quest reward, and 6 guys left to defend the whole place, and all 6 end up at the mine... lol...
11 posts
yea for ab bg, the ppl that get stuck in that trollbane deathlock need to get smarter and run to another place alliance controls. leaving 1 person behind to feed the 3-5 horde there while the others reinforce or attack other areas. i've seen a lot of ppl get mad and just go afk b/c they keep dying when they rez. other than that the above strategies are good. 2-3 ppl per node and a patrol party has worked many times in the past for me. having 1-2 ppl ninja poorly defended nodes has worked. just being around their node makes them made shortening their numbers attacking by keeping 2-3 and sometimes more horde on one person. communication is key, but i have noticed lately there have been a lot of chiefs and not enough indians so to speak. so a lot of ppl go off and do their own thing or there's so many strategies floating around you don't know which one to follow.
I agree with smaller units working around the arena. It almost seems as if the allies are afraid to get spooked and flee when gathering for a raid on the farm or blacksmith... Its kinda funny. Just take the time to look around and see if its worth it before diving in..
Overall I've won ALOT more than i've lost and heres my opinion:
1) I think we have a better understanding of rotation. If a small grouped raid fails on the goldmine and all appears lost (ie massive zerg of defense).. I see 'most' rezzing hordies running to reinforce ally aggressions in other areas.
2) We are extremely adept to zergin mentallity. If ur runnin around, we are right behind you :).
3) Hate to admit but more times than not.. we only have 1-2 on defense at the farm and lumbermill with blacksmith inhand... This usually leads to 4 capping and ally farming.
4) Finally, we (mostly) play unselfishly...
If i see a rogue sneak up on a fellow caster, i'll take the time to cast a fear and send him on his way. Priests drop shields on MTs(clothies or plate).
Just me taking the time to put help out someone gettin manhandled by a rogue can change the fight drastically
Thats all i can think of now
Peace
Overall I've won ALOT more than i've lost and heres my opinion:
1) I think we have a better understanding of rotation. If a small grouped raid fails on the goldmine and all appears lost (ie massive zerg of defense).. I see 'most' rezzing hordies running to reinforce ally aggressions in other areas.
2) We are extremely adept to zergin mentallity. If ur runnin around, we are right behind you :).
3) Hate to admit but more times than not.. we only have 1-2 on defense at the farm and lumbermill with blacksmith inhand... This usually leads to 4 capping and ally farming.
4) Finally, we (mostly) play unselfishly...
If i see a rogue sneak up on a fellow caster, i'll take the time to cast a fear and send him on his way. Priests drop shields on MTs(clothies or plate).
Just me taking the time to put help out someone gettin manhandled by a rogue can change the fight drastically
Thats all i can think of now
Peace
Scholar
48 posts
You get more honour if you win. Why go AFK? If you win, you get more marks and honour. People who go AFK aren't helping themselves or anybody else. They're also forgetting the whole point - to PvP and have fun. At least TRY to win, whatever faction you play. Communication, whether by text (which is is usuually for Horde PuGs) or via Teamspeak, you will work as a team and actually have a chance at forming a strategy and winning.
Edited, Dec 23rd 2006 9:36pm by Neppykins
Edited, Dec 23rd 2006 9:36pm by Neppykins
1 post
Quote:
I have noticed that a few alliance players just camp AFK and wait to lose. Nothing helps the horde like AFK losers.
But assuming you have a team of winners, the way to win Arathi is to constantly assault more bases. If the horde attacks one place, you attack another. You have to constantly capture new bases. The trick is figuring out how many people to send and how many to defend.
Yes, it is true that the alliance typically try to defend three bases and wind up with just the stables. You have to always be on the move and grabbing bases from the horde. A static defence of three bases presumes that you can beat the horde head-to-head. If that is true, why not take all five? If it is not true, then hit-and-run is the only alternative.
But assuming you have a team of winners, the way to win Arathi is to constantly assault more bases. If the horde attacks one place, you attack another. You have to constantly capture new bases. The trick is figuring out how many people to send and how many to defend.
Yes, it is true that the alliance typically try to defend three bases and wind up with just the stables. You have to always be on the move and grabbing bases from the horde. A static defence of three bases presumes that you can beat the horde head-to-head. If that is true, why not take all five? If it is not true, then hit-and-run is the only alternative.
This sounds good, but it doesn't work as well as you may think. As you get more points per tick the longer a hold a given node it doesn't pay off as much as capping and losing nodes.
Edited, Dec 24th 2006 2:45pm by tmars
The only thing you need to win Arathi Basin is a team - not a group. You need one person who is able and willing to take control of the situation, and 14 people who are able and willing to follow his or her orders. Without this, you only have 15 individuals roaming across the Basin flailing ineffectively at the Horde.
In many ways, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts if you are able to control the situation.
In many ways, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts if you are able to control the situation.
4 posts
as i normally play in a premade group vast majority of time, the best form of defense is offense, if the horde take a node from you, you need to go on attack grab back one of theirs. Its also worth noting that having some knowledge of where horde will spawn comes in beneficial ie. if alliance has ST, GM and horde has Farm and BS is still neutral then if you were to attack LM and grab LM then the only place horde can spawn is Farm, so through some extra ppl into the BS fight to outnumber the horde but at same time keep up a small attack on farm to slow horde down from attacking BS. Little things like this will help you start winning. Also BS is not overly important, it just means that its centralised so you can hit GM or LM at same time without moving far, but if alliance were to hold the other 4 nodes then BS becomes an island that you can't escape off. But the key to winning AB is attack rather then defend, if you have 3 nodes have 1-2 defenders at each node and push the other 2 bases but be prepared to help defend if a defender needs help.
Recent Visitors: 56
All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (56)
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- General Discussion
- AB Tactics... I think I stumbled onto something...
© 2024 Fanbyte LLC