Doomguard and Infernal don't make sense as 1 hour cooldownsFollow

The warlock demons Doomguard and Inferno simply aren't reasonable as 60 minute cooldowns.

Remove the cooldowns and remove the enslavement requirements and what do you have? The Infernal has a weak aoe fire aura, the standard attack speeds and movement of any pet, almost 50% physical damage resistence due to armor and 5k hp. On its own like this it seems fun and usable because no other warlock pet aside from the doomguard is as beefy as this pet. But compare this to hunter's pets and you can't help but yawn. The fire aura and the stun upon summoning are simply boring and weak compared to what all of the "weaker" pets (both warlocks and hunters) can do. Throw in the outdoor requirements to summon, the enslavement requirements after 5 minutes and the guarantied hate and you are looking at a pet that doesn't make sense as a 60 minute cooldown.

THe Doomguard has somewhat overall weaker stats than the Infernal which is a big minus considering how strong all other pets are in relation to it. But many of its special abilities are simply awesome. Cripple can shutdown physical based classes in short order. Warstomp is always a crowd pleaser. It makes usage of the most efficient aoe in the game because it can't be interrupeted, can be targetted, has a base damage to mana ratio better than everything else. THe only thing that is essentially weak is dispel. On its abilities alone the 1 hour cooldown could be forgiven because there are two ways of summoning it. But it must also be enslaved and it is pretty much as guarrantied to hate you almost as much as the Infernal once it is finally immune to enslavement.

For what these pets can do, what truly makes them look less like 1 hour cooldowns is how well they compare to even the 30 minute cooldowns in the game. Lay of Hands, Recklessness, Retaliation, Shield Wall and Rebirth are obviously overpowered compared to the other abilities that can be used by their respective classes. They also bring an element of fun into the game for those who play those classes but Doomguards and Infernals simply bring respectively suffering or annoyance to their summoner and his party mates.

Both pets need improvements but I also feel the demonology tree needs some improvements as well.

Infernal Changes:
The Infernal needs only one big change. Give it an additional aura. Any enemy within 5 meters of the Infernal has their movement impaired by -80%.

Due to its snaring ability increase its melee to 400 - 550 and give it 6 second attack speed. This lowers its dps by 15% and changes its dynamic from being a basic damage dealer against all classes to just melee oriented classes.


Doomguard Changes:
The Doomguard's dispel is buffed so it can remove a spell that normally can't be dispelled. I was really thinking of this in terms of how this could make the Doomguard useful in removing harmful affects in raid encounters like the Living Bomb or Blood of Hakkar but this can have an impact in pvp on some classes. Paladins wouldn't like this even if they have more effective tools against demons than most classes.

More importantly than the dispel is a complete overhaul of the Doomguard's hate code. Whatever the code is right now just makes the Doomguard almost as likely as the Infernal to attack the warlock and his friends. One of them having this attribute is ok but not reasonable for both of them.
When the Doomguard isn't enslaved it does a check against all characters in a 50-100 yard radius. It will assess who will it hate more in the alliance, horde and mob threat list catagories. The only modifiers will be additional hate geared towards the warlock who summoned it and immunities to being placed on the threat list for certain mobs. So in a raid environment the Doomguard will have a much greater chance of hating bosses, subbosses and groups of elites than the raid members unless these mobs are alligned with the Burning Legion. In pvp a Doomguard is almost 50/50 in either picking you or your enemy to hate even if you are outnumbered 2 to 1 because of the multiplied hate on the summoner. As the numbers greatly favor your enemies over you the greater chance the doomguard will reliably attack them.


Talent Additions:

Chaotic Order 0/1
Requires 20 point Investment in Demonology

Your high level demons gain new powers.

Infernal - Emits an aura of shadow and flame in a 25 yard radius. All enemies within the aura have their chance to hit with attacks and spells reduced by -5% for 5 seconds each time they are hit with a shadow or flame spell. THe duration can stack but not the effect. (So if you are hit by clonfageration, flamestrike combo the penalty can last for 10 seconds instead of having the second attack reset the duration timer). All allies within the aura have a 1% chance to be dazed for 3 seconds whenever hit by a fire or shadow spell or under the affects of such spells. (THe last point is important. It means Dots on each tick have a 1% chance of creating this daze effect.)


Doomguard - Can learn to cast the Curse of limits spell on a target. This curse doesn't apply to the usual one curse per target limit. While on the original target the curse does nothing. If a friendly warlock spell is removed from that target curse of limits and the removed spell is reapplied to a member of the party that removed that spell. If the curse of limits changes targets in such a manner a warlock can apply a second curse on the player or mob with curse of limits on them.

Curse of Limits
1 minute duration
1 minute cooldown
Instant Cast

Fel Guard - Makes a dark pact with the warlock. Warlock loses X stamina and spirit. Fel Guard can summon Imp, Voidwalker, Succubus or Felhunter. Warlock chooses pet but Fel Guard is the only one who can control the summoned demon.



Diabolical Lessons 0/1
Requires 35 Points in Demonology Talents

Your low level demons gain new powers.

Imp - Boiling Blood. Everytime the Imp strikes a target with firebolt the imps blood begins to boil. All allies within 5 yards of the Imp can regenerate in combat and gain +X spirit for each hit made by the imp that lasts 10 seconds. Party members of the warlock do not need to be near the Imp to gain this benefit.

Voidwalker - Envelopment. Demon creates and channels a vortex at its feet. It expands 5 yards every 2 seconds for 11 seconds. All allies touched by the vortex will have their threat reduced. THis effect will increase in effectiveness by 2% every second for a maximum of -20% threat.
After 11 seconds the vortex will collapse on itself. All threat reduced by the vortex will be applied to the vortex. All mobs touched by the vortex will assess the threat gained by the vortex and instantly rush to its position if confused enough by the threat gained.
5 minute cooldown (changing voidwalkers won't affect this cooldown)

Succubus - Sirens Harmony. This spell cast on a single target lures target to succubus. While under its effects the target emits an aura that reduces the chance to chain aggro by 90%.
3 Minute cooldown
10 second cast
50 yard range


Felhunter - Downfall. Fellhunter intercepts target delivering a vicious attack sapping its target of its immunities. The target won't be immune to the next ability or spell it normally would've been immune to.
2 second cast
10 minute cooldown.

Edited, Sep 19th 2006 at 6:47am EDT by mutantmagnet

Yeah, Blizzard better get on this pressing issue right away. Warlocks aren't nearly powerful enough yet.......



Seriously, if you think Hunter pets are any where nearly as versitile and effective as Warlock demons...then you got hit in the head with every stupid branch in the forest.

Lay on Hands has a 60min cooldown which can be reduced to 50/40 mins with 1 or 2 talent points in holy.

I wasn't talking about warlock demons I was talking about the warlock Infernal which has a 60 minute cooldown, a reagent cost that is comparable to pet food, a crappy aoe "look at me" stun entrance and an even more laughably weak fire shield. The stats of an Infernal in terms of hp, attack and armor are simply just as good as a hunters pet but its special abilities suck compared to hunters pets let alone warlock pets. So for a pet so uninspiring why is it on a 1 hour cooldown?

Blizzard "balanced" this game for group pvp/pve. When BC comes out they'll ban long cooldown moves because they specifically made long cooldown moves grossly more powerful than regular moves moves. It's understandable why Lay of Hands, Retaliation, Rebirth would be grossly overpowered. But a hunter pet could solo an Infernal. There's no justifciation for it especially since the Infernal will eventually break enslavement and try its best to kill you and your friends.


As for the power of the warlocks the changes I suggested if you look closely enough do more for groups than the warlock alone. No warlock, like any other class, is going to blow a 60 minute cooldown in a 2v1 situation let alone a 1v1 situation when playing semi-seriously.




True enough. In fact I suspect the Doomguard was balanced with curse of doom. Curse of doom allows warlocks to bypass the cooldown (even if it isn't that reliable) which I think makes the Doomguard pretty good as is. But quite a few warlocks want the Doomguard to be far more controllable than it is. A better enslavement would be ok but I prefer this approach which makes the Doomguard more reliable in certain encounters and keeps the Doomguard out of the direct control of players.

Either way it needs a minor boost in reliability because sacraficing a player for bits of binary code can be a steep tradeoff depending on how far away is the graveyard and the skill of the player being sacraficed. Blizzard atleast removed the durability loss from the sacrafice which was a step in the right direction but really not enough.

The lower tier demons are fine if Blizzard only had them in mind as less useful as endgame pets but I simply don't like how demonology throws talents together.




True but there's also the possibility that warlocks are so strong on their own without pets compared to other classes thanks to talents, the changes to how certain spells scale and the introduction of new spells that pets won't really be any stronger than they are now once you factor in same tiers of armor. Pets need to scale as raid encounters get harder but I think pets are better served by getting more utilitarian skills. That's why I can't really agree with many of your suggestions for the lower tier pets. Your ideas affect 1v1 pvp more than anything else.

If a warlock was affected by Tainted Blood now they would feel even more secure knowing they can eat mages and other warlocks alive and in additon have an even better chance of destroying Paladins, Shamans, and Priets (Druids simply run away) This also make life very difficult for warriors and rogues because then they wouldn't enter a fight against a warlock with Felhunter out and feel secure in kowing they have a decent chance of winning the fight.


The Felhunter is so effective against casters I think it would be a bad move for the imp to have the ability to interrupt casters when warlocks can make do with Master Demonologist to change pets if needed. Mana regen is ok but usually the main reason Imps are used because they don't require shards and they benefit the entire party. Emphasizing party benefits is the way to go in diversifying warlocks from Mages in pve.


I think Lash of Pain is a very effective dps boosting attack. It's just that the hit points and armor of the succubus combined with its threat gain though make this look bad in pve and pvp.

Sorry, I got my Shadow Resistance armor on. Have at you!!

That is about the only thing I agree with. The rest can stay the same. Don't like it play another class.

Why do you have this at the 21 point level? You get Inferno at least at level 50 and Curse of Doom or Ritual of Doom at level 60. Don't you know your class?

The 21 point level is reachable at level 30. What? Invest a talent point for a skill you will get after 20 levels (Inferno) and 30 levels (Curse of Doom or Ritual of Doom)?

Exactly, Blizzard needs to buff Warlocks because their tallents aren't as strong as they could be.
They're still 3 WHOLE BUFFS away from god mode!

As much as I love to see any job get buffed, I'd rather they fix the things that are currently broken. Say for example vanish...

/kek I'm still a quite buzzed from reading that thread earlier. =3