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Edit: oh what the hell....... /claimed


Typically, on a PvE server 99.9% of the PvP is confined to the battle grounds. In the few town raids you see there is some flagged/unflagged exploiting going on. I've seen unflagged mages do just as vamp described, stand right in front of someone and load up a pyroblast while they can't retaliate. Some folks say that's just as bad as ganking but I don't think so. On PvE server if you raid a town, you set yourself up for that kind of thing.

I think the big thing to realize here is that blizard has taken pains to give us two ways to play the game. We each choose the one we most enjoy for our own reasons and there is no need to justify or validate those reasons to People who choose the other play style. The same goes with our opinions. Tyranidor is entitled to think of PvEer's as carebears (should he choose to hold that predjudice) just as we are entiltled to think of him as a merciless ganker (should we decide to do the same). In that light, much of this argument/debate/whatever is shown to be more about someone's choice of words than playstyle, since playstyle is a matter of taste and taste cannot be debated to any satisfactory outcome.

I really doubt that Blizzard will make the outlands PvP on PvE servers. Arkenstone made some very good points on the subject that I fully agree with. It makes no sense to gank someone who's fighting a monster that might possibly kill you once you finish off the other player. Also from a sales point of veiw it makes less sense. I don't have hard numbers but I believe that the majority of subscribers and servers are PvE. No way that Blizzard will risk alienating that large a subscriber base.

My thoughts on PvP vs. PvE? Enjoy the game and don't worry too much about what the other side thinks.



Edited, Tue Nov 1 12:55:05 2005 by fortnight

I also love PvP, but play on a PvE server. Why? simple, when I only have an hour or less to play it's nice to get something done besides an entire session of Corpse Runs because some Skull is bored.


I have a Lil one, a job, a GF and other obligations and PvP style server just doesn't cut it for my play style.


So don't go saying PvE players' are only there because Ganker's send em crying to their mommies. Some of us just have other things to do besides deal with eternal Corpse Runs.

And the problem i see with PvE servers is that MANY people go there saying "I can pvp when i want" which should be better worded "I can have anyone get the first shot on me or can get the first shot on anyone stupid enough to put their flag up, which for the most part is the deciding factor for most fights"

What he means is that you have little choice as to when you actally pvp and it has little to do with what you want.

The pve-er says, "I can pvp whenever I want"... which is basically wrong. You can pvp if you find somebody who's willing to flag themselves. If you're itching for a fight and the BG q are very high, the only thing you can do is flag yourself and be a big enough jerk so that people will decide to attack you.

On a pvp server, if you want to pvp, you just go to high traffic zone and start fighting. Even if the zone is a lower level then you, it won't take too long before the ganked call in the cavalry and then you'll meet your match. So you want to pvp, you pvp.

What the pve-er really mean is 'I don't have to pvp if I don't feel like it' and not 'I pvp when I want'. There's a difference.

I have characters on PvP and PvE servers. I have one for when I want to pick a fight at random, and one for when I just want to grind some levels or gear or just plain hang out. The one thing I find interesting is just how incredibly different the game is between not only Horde and Alliance, but between PvP and PvE servers. You don't find that sort of replayability in many games these days.

No difference between the two to me, maybe to you, not to me. Again, the essential difference between the two server types is ganking. You like it, I don't. I PvP when I want to PvP, not when I don't feel like it. That's a hair I don't need to split.



On a PvE server, if you want to PvP, you just go to a high traffic zone and flag yourself, maybe kill some npcs to send out the World Defense messages. Even if the zone is a lower level than you, it won't take too long before the calvary rides in and you'll meet your match. So you want to PvP, you PvP.




Edited, Wed Nov 2 14:57:27 2005 by Kourg

though it is picking at symmantics, (though properly picking so it's not bad) Warchief Tyrandor is correct...

you don't go to a PVE server to "PVP when you want"... you go to one so you don't have to worry about PVP.

I was playing over lunch as I normally do and decided to make the trip to astrannar so I could do some easy questing / grinding in azshara tonight.. it's a long trip.. ate up my lunch hour easily from where I was but hey.. priest just don't have quick travel abilities...

so I get to Nijel's point and there's a double ?? Hunter who is flagged and I'm standing in the inn checking my inventory and he decides to kill the merchants.. they were not even hunter's marked until I was standing in front of them checking inventory.. there's no doubt in my mind he was looking for some PVP...

course.. I was sorting items to send to my alts.. so him killing the merchants didn't mean anything to what I was doing.

add to that he's a double ?? Hunter.. and my prist is Holy Spec level 44... right.. why bother.

add to that I was on a limited time schedule even if it WERE in my power to do anything.. (which it wasn't) I didn't have time.

so I finished my sorting.. sent my items and hopped a gryphon to auberdine.

had it been a PVP server my little trip would have ended right then and there and I would have been pissed off due to having to rez and horse ride out of there (since nijel's was effectively off limits) which would have been a pretty effective monkey wrench in my plans.

IMO he's the type that should have rolled on a PVP server to begin with...

How am I being mightier then thou by pointing out that, as Iani says, you go on a pve server to avoid pvp, not to pvp when you want to?



Now what's your definition of ganking?

Scenario 1:
Two level 60 meet on their mount on the road in the middle of the western plageland.

On a pvp server - If one of the two 60 wants to fight, he will dismount and attack. You want pvp, you get pvp.

Is this what you'd consider ganking? An open encounter on the road, with no mobs involved, between to person of the same level and no 'surprise' attack?

On a pve server - One of the two party may flag because he wants to pvp. The other may not feel like it, not flag, and despite the hopeful pvper's best hope, he's not getting any pvp action. Despite the fact that he decided he wanted pvp, he's not getting any.


It might be hard to for you to imagine, but not every fight on a pvp server is a 'gank'. You don't get much (if any) honor from a gank. When I'm hunting in the plagueland, I'm looking for health target so I can get the most honor from the kill.

The funny thing is that you're still saying pvper have a higher then thou when you're the one making sweeping generalisation implying that the only difference betwee pve-pvp is ganking (Meaning that we only ever gank, there's no such thing as real battles obviously) and are jackasses or what not.


Beside, saying that the only difference is ganking is like saying the only difference between a tiger and a lion is that the lion as stripe. It's true, but there's much more to it then that. Your whole gameplay experience and way you approach challenges or heck, even move around the zone changes depending on your existence on a pvp or pve server.






Edited, Wed Nov 2 16:24:53 2005 by Tyrandor

.

You missed/sidestepped my point again (been taking lessons from Allegory? ^^ j/k). You're twisting, and replacing, my words to make your points. I didn't say that ganking was the only difference. I said it was the essential difference. It's presence is what creates the cutthroat exciting server spirit you enjoy, which you just said in different words.

I also never said there are no real battles on PvP servers. To quote myself from a response to a recent "I'm new to WoW" thread:



What that percentage is, I have no idea since I don't play there, but I have no illusion that all, or most, world PvP is ganking.

As for the definition of "gank", I'll use your example of the two 60s meeting on the road. If the two get off their mounts and battle it out, great, love it, good honorable battle, winner deserves his HK cookie. If one of them rides off, obviously not wanting to fight (for whatever reason), but the other chases him down and kills him anyway, yes, I think I'd consider it a gank. Nothing to complain about, since it's on a PvP server and I don't think you should be there if you don't want that. "Gank", to me, basically is equivalent to forcing your will upon others who have done nothing to provoke you. I'm fairly certain that's not your definition of "gank" and that's fine. That's why you play on PvP and I play on PvE.


As for the jackass thing, I apply that to backstabbers and those who harass others just to interrupt their game and cause misery (on ANY server type). I've already stated that a number of times. It's only a "sweeping generalization" if YOU think all PvPers do these things. I, however, do not think all, or even the majority, of PvPers fit this description, and those that do certainly don't at all times. I've said so on more than one occasion in these forums. Although, you are making me think that it may be more than I originally thought.

THIS, however, does sound a bit like a sweeping generalization.



Is it, or isn't it?

You will NEVER find anywhere in my posts where I claimed to revel in the dissappointment that PvPers must have felt when DKs were put in. Other people's dissappointment just doesn't thrill me (well, except RMT farners/sellers and maybe some of the more machiavellian daytraders).

Your response to:



was:



I see that as cold, condescending, sarcastic and arrogant whether you do or not. It actually proves Calabar's point to a large extent. And it's the answer to this: