ive been reading a lot of posts, and watched a lotta fraps videos, and im worried that this game might be too.. "easy" ??
i mean, people are talking about getting thier drafting lvlvs really high really quick, people aready hitting the 60 cap. I understand there is more to do than lvl. But you have to admit, when you see smoene in FFXI in full relic, or AF2, you KNOW they have put a lot of time into the game. It just seems that within a short amount of time everyone in WoW could be capped at lvl, and be crafting the best stuff they could get, it seems like you hardly have to devote anytime to this game to have a "better than average" (read: average) character.
Also looking at some of the clips, it seems like a lot of button mashing. Mobs dying real quick and running all over the place spamming one single powerful spell ofver and over again. It seems like there arn't many tactics to this game.
Am i missing something?
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I have to admit, leveling is fast. I started my elven rogue tonight, im already level 7 with a level 14 human pally that took me 2 - 3 days to build.
Crafting level up fast, almost a level for every item you create, or if your mining, for every succesful mine you do.
A button masher, no it isnt, you must be quick on the button, yes, but you have to think and be fast too. On my rogue, I have a lot of things to do to survive due to my lack of defence.
Plus there is a lot of quest to do. SO yes, leveling is fast, but I think there might be a reason for it that we dont know about since we are in beta and we might not get far enough to find out.
Crafting level up fast, almost a level for every item you create, or if your mining, for every succesful mine you do.
A button masher, no it isnt, you must be quick on the button, yes, but you have to think and be fast too. On my rogue, I have a lot of things to do to survive due to my lack of defence.
Plus there is a lot of quest to do. SO yes, leveling is fast, but I think there might be a reason for it that we dont know about since we are in beta and we might not get far enough to find out.
it just seems that this game is.. really easy.
WoW leveling is fast, but that's just so that you can get to the high-end content, where the real game begins. Since alot of it hasn't been implemented yet (to my knowlegde) there is alot to forward too. Plus the vids of Onyxia I've seen are pretty impressive (I think the record right now is something like 80% health remaining on the dragon).
Yeah the crafting slows down somewhat as you go. and they always said the lvling woudl be fast so you could get to pvp/raids etc.
You've been corrupted by FFXI. Time consumiong does not mean hard. And having put in a lot of time does not make you good, or special. Hard means mobs require strategy to beat, and there's in game challenges. Both of which are true- If I use the right strategy, I can solo mobs that I can't mashing buttons. And for challenges, there's instances, and of course PvP.
This game is not a game of time sinks. You aren't supposed to look at a level 60 and go "Oh wow". You're supposed to watch that group of 5 level 60s take out twice their number and go "Oh wow!" Respect in this game won't be earned by spending 2000 hours grinding, it will be earned by player skill- the way it should be.
If you want a game where people will be amazed because of your uber armor and level number, this is not the game for you. As for being "better than average" due to levels and gear- gear doesn't make you. Levels don't make you. You want to consider yourself better than average- lets see some skill. Lets see you PvP and win. Lets see you take on an instance over your level without dieing. Lets see you do something the average guy just couldn't do- then you're better than average. The people in FFXI who were amazed at their own gear and levels were usually some of the ********* players I've seen in 6 MMOs. They didn't have the skills, they just had time.
This game is not a game of time sinks. You aren't supposed to look at a level 60 and go "Oh wow". You're supposed to watch that group of 5 level 60s take out twice their number and go "Oh wow!" Respect in this game won't be earned by spending 2000 hours grinding, it will be earned by player skill- the way it should be.
If you want a game where people will be amazed because of your uber armor and level number, this is not the game for you. As for being "better than average" due to levels and gear- gear doesn't make you. Levels don't make you. You want to consider yourself better than average- lets see some skill. Lets see you PvP and win. Lets see you take on an instance over your level without dieing. Lets see you do something the average guy just couldn't do- then you're better than average. The people in FFXI who were amazed at their own gear and levels were usually some of the ********* players I've seen in 6 MMOs. They didn't have the skills, they just had time.
Onyxia Video (right click and save as)
*points at Onyxia*
GRRRRR! Come and GET SOME!!!!!!!! *flexes*
Anyways, to be more serious, leveling in general was never a challenge in any MMO. It's nothing more then kill, kill, kill and exp, exp, exp. Now getting the GOOD stuff, like Epic, Legendary and Artifact items in WoW, will be the golden challenge. The ultimate challenge, however, will be gaining hero classes.
While not much info has been given about heroes or if they will be implemented in a patch, Blizzard described gaining the hero status as being very difficuly. It's so difficult that Blizzard stated themselves that those who have them will be celebrities in their respected servers.
Lets not forget the promise of The Outlands, where Illidan awaits. Illidan is a corrupted night elf demonhunter and is currently the most powerful NPC according to Eno, the lead designer of WoW. Imagine facing him in a match...Well, hopefully he will be raidable. Once Northrend enters into play, Arthas will be much stronger, of course.
And how can we forget good ol' Battlefields? This will be WoW's greatest appeal once implemented. You will join forces with fellow players to fight opposite factions in a war-like setting. You will be destroying the environment around you as spells fly and swords are swung. Nothing like fighting an actual person then the computer AI. This is optional of course but come on, who can resist? You get to drive a fricken siege tank!
And finally, you CAN raid towns of the opposite faction. This is really not easy as many, many people will be killed in the process. You actually think that the guys in the opposite faction is going to let you kill their NPCs? Not just that but I do recall that if you raid cities, you will be able to gain special items from the city leaders. However, don't quote me on that...
Even though I said finally, there are the raid monsters. The Black Dragon Onyxia, the Fire God Magmadar and Golemagg the Destroyer. Look at the link that I provided earlier. Please don't tell me that looks easy. Now take that and lets focus on the Fire God, Magmadar. The fire god, according to Bliz, is HARDER then Onyxia. Exciting, eh?
In conclusion...
Leveling = Easy
Experiencing and beating everything = Hard as all hell
I think I made my point *sits and waits for open beta to finally d/l* Oh god, this is slower then the movie Titanic....
Edited, Fri Nov 12 05:32:11 2004 by Redmoonxl
*points at Onyxia*
GRRRRR! Come and GET SOME!!!!!!!! *flexes*
Anyways, to be more serious, leveling in general was never a challenge in any MMO. It's nothing more then kill, kill, kill and exp, exp, exp. Now getting the GOOD stuff, like Epic, Legendary and Artifact items in WoW, will be the golden challenge. The ultimate challenge, however, will be gaining hero classes.
While not much info has been given about heroes or if they will be implemented in a patch, Blizzard described gaining the hero status as being very difficuly. It's so difficult that Blizzard stated themselves that those who have them will be celebrities in their respected servers.
Lets not forget the promise of The Outlands, where Illidan awaits. Illidan is a corrupted night elf demonhunter and is currently the most powerful NPC according to Eno, the lead designer of WoW. Imagine facing him in a match...Well, hopefully he will be raidable. Once Northrend enters into play, Arthas will be much stronger, of course.
And how can we forget good ol' Battlefields? This will be WoW's greatest appeal once implemented. You will join forces with fellow players to fight opposite factions in a war-like setting. You will be destroying the environment around you as spells fly and swords are swung. Nothing like fighting an actual person then the computer AI. This is optional of course but come on, who can resist? You get to drive a fricken siege tank!
And finally, you CAN raid towns of the opposite faction. This is really not easy as many, many people will be killed in the process. You actually think that the guys in the opposite faction is going to let you kill their NPCs? Not just that but I do recall that if you raid cities, you will be able to gain special items from the city leaders. However, don't quote me on that...
Even though I said finally, there are the raid monsters. The Black Dragon Onyxia, the Fire God Magmadar and Golemagg the Destroyer. Look at the link that I provided earlier. Please don't tell me that looks easy. Now take that and lets focus on the Fire God, Magmadar. The fire god, according to Bliz, is HARDER then Onyxia. Exciting, eh?
In conclusion...
Leveling = Easy
Experiencing and beating everything = Hard as all hell
I think I made my point *sits and waits for open beta to finally d/l* Oh god, this is slower then the movie Titanic....
Edited, Fri Nov 12 05:32:11 2004 by Redmoonxl
Well, I'll say this about it, and I know MMORPGs are alot different but heres my reality.
On a standard RPG (Looooooong one, I can get away with beating it in 40-50 hours if I dont use any guides or anything)
FFXI I have about 40 DAYS logged, thats nearly 1,000 hours! and I'm not even near half way through the game.
So I think WoW is on to somthing when they make the game less time consuming. I mean What percent of the players get 100% of what they paid for for FFXI? I doubt even 1/2 got to go through their desired class to 75 and even less got past rank 6.
In reality our lives now days dont allow for 10+ hours a day it takes to get a character on a game like FFXI to 75 in any reasonable amount of time. I think WoW was smart in what they did, I believe the skilling up is relitively short but from what I've seen there is alot of content for endgame like dragon battles and whatnot.
I for one give that 2 thumbs up. I can get what I pay for and still invest as much time as I want. If I want to rush to 60 and quit I can, if I wanted to play for the next 3 years, I'm sure I could stay occupied even if it is with RP PvP.
On a standard RPG (Looooooong one, I can get away with beating it in 40-50 hours if I dont use any guides or anything)
FFXI I have about 40 DAYS logged, thats nearly 1,000 hours! and I'm not even near half way through the game.
So I think WoW is on to somthing when they make the game less time consuming. I mean What percent of the players get 100% of what they paid for for FFXI? I doubt even 1/2 got to go through their desired class to 75 and even less got past rank 6.
In reality our lives now days dont allow for 10+ hours a day it takes to get a character on a game like FFXI to 75 in any reasonable amount of time. I think WoW was smart in what they did, I believe the skilling up is relitively short but from what I've seen there is alot of content for endgame like dragon battles and whatnot.
I for one give that 2 thumbs up. I can get what I pay for and still invest as much time as I want. If I want to rush to 60 and quit I can, if I wanted to play for the next 3 years, I'm sure I could stay occupied even if it is with RP PvP.
Fast yes, Easy no.
You have to know what your doing out there if your going to make it.
Take my rogue for instance. I have numurous ways to finish off a mob efficiently. All these spur from prebuilt attack plans that change during the fight depending on mob level, opening attacks(did I attack first, was I attacked first, did I start with a stealth attack?), and what abilities miss. This leads to a lot of my fights being very different in style and speed.
Also, don't forget that while in groups, tactics change drastically. Some things I do while solo will just not work. Ussually its smarter for me to use slice and dice than evisc, or I cant use gouge to get a quick backstab off if i have agro.
This is taken from a level 14 rogues perspective.
Things just wont get handed down to you as you mindlessly bash mobs like in other games. Just like in others, you will still have problems taking on mobs that are higher level than you, you will still have to watch out for mobs around the corner, and you will still have to know your class even deaper than other games to survive.
You have to know what your doing out there if your going to make it.
Take my rogue for instance. I have numurous ways to finish off a mob efficiently. All these spur from prebuilt attack plans that change during the fight depending on mob level, opening attacks(did I attack first, was I attacked first, did I start with a stealth attack?), and what abilities miss. This leads to a lot of my fights being very different in style and speed.
Also, don't forget that while in groups, tactics change drastically. Some things I do while solo will just not work. Ussually its smarter for me to use slice and dice than evisc, or I cant use gouge to get a quick backstab off if i have agro.
This is taken from a level 14 rogues perspective.
Things just wont get handed down to you as you mindlessly bash mobs like in other games. Just like in others, you will still have problems taking on mobs that are higher level than you, you will still have to watch out for mobs around the corner, and you will still have to know your class even deaper than other games to survive.
The leveling may be fast, but you do have to remember that there really isn't anything for mid to endgame content implemented yet. As far as I know the only dungeon raid instance is Onyxia...Blizzard has announced that there will be MANY more of these instances.
As for people already hitting the level 60 cap, some have characters they have ported over from previous beta stages. Maybe they will boost the level cap for retail as well, who knows? Blizzard is notorious for staying hush-hush on their releases up until it comes out. What we see in beta may just be the tip of the iceberg...
As for people already hitting the level 60 cap, some have characters they have ported over from previous beta stages. Maybe they will boost the level cap for retail as well, who knows? Blizzard is notorious for staying hush-hush on their releases up until it comes out. What we see in beta may just be the tip of the iceberg...
here is the think WOW and FFXI shouldnt even be compaired. they are 2 totaly different games. FFXI is a hardcore gamers paradise with grinding galore. WoW is caterend more towards the casual gamer who cant spend 10 hours a day on a game. there is nothing wrong with either group of people but sadly they dont end up in the same game for long usualy because the hardcore gamers get past everything to do in some games too fast and the not hardcore gamers cant get anywhere in the grinding games. People who say this game is to easy probibly are hardcore gamers who play hours andhours a day. but for people like me with schooling and other things i have to do it is the perfict speed. i just wish people whould stop complaining about it because it probibly wont change if you cant stand a game thats more fast pase than WoW isnt for you
ahh i feel much better now, I understand what you guys mean.
Thanks for the awesome replies, rate ups all around!
Thanks for the awesome replies, rate ups all around!
Javariel wrote:
Time consumiong does not mean hard. And having put in a lot of time does not make you good, or special.
Well said. This is precisiely why I believe this game is going to be good. Quality over quantity for a change. No longer will people be required to drop hours and hours to move a little bar. They will fulfil quests, explore new lands and fight new mobs in new ways. The raid was tough last time...do it again with a different strategy. Different group. I have to tell you, I spend far less time watching my XP bars in this game than I did in other games. I watch quests more closely.
I do believe levelling is faster now because of beta. You have to figure they want people to experience more than just the life of a level 15 and under so they have not decellerated the progress. I am betting (and this is uninformed...just a guess) that getting to level 20 will be relatively quick (just like any other MMO)...and then things will slow down a little...but I do not see it slowing down too much. I think in this game, when you get a toon to the cap, you are going to move an alt up to the cap. Experience the game from different perspectives...and then enjoy the PVP aspect of the game at the high levels.
Took me 1 week during the stress test to make lvl 20 on my druid. I only played 5 hours a day most of the time (bit more on sunday). And I loved it. If you get into the questing system you don't really even pay attention to your level. Its like a platform RPG. You play the game and level up, but you're just kinda like "I leveled up, cool, now moving on."
Quote:
Took me 1 week during the stress test to make lvl 20 on my druid. I only played 5 hours a day most of the time (bit more on sunday). And I loved it. If you get into the questing system you don't really even pay attention to your level. Its like a platform RPG. You play the game and level up, but you're just kinda like "I leveled up, cool, now moving on."
That's how I feel. I enjoy actually doing quests, exploring new areas, and gaining EXP at the same time. That's why I quit FFXI for WoW.
If you want to dump hundreds of hours into a game with minimal advancement, go play FFXI. Sure, the AF gear is cool and getting to 75 with your desired job makes you feel uber, but what's the point really? I'm sorry, but Ballista was a sorry excuse for a PvP system. WoW's PvP system makes the game more exciting I think, and it gives you a more of a reason to work hard to become good.
I mean play whatever game you want for your own reasons, I just thought I'd voice mine.
fallacist wrote:
But you have to admit, when you see smoene in FFXI in full relic, or AF2, you KNOW they have put a lot of time into the game.
Remember that in FFXI the initial level cap was 50 (a patch added Limit 1), there was no such thing as Artifact armor (Yup, not even AF1 sets existed), no HNMs, no Dynamis, none of the cool things most people refer to as 'end-game' now. Those were all added in patches/expansions at a later date and never in the initial release. I've been playing FFXI for about a year now, and I'd already be VERY near end-game without all the stuff that's been added in patches and expansions, and I played *slooooow*.
I expect the same type of evolution in WoW, the game will have more 'end-game' content added, be it in patches or expansions (you know Blizzard LOVES their expansions). I've only been playing the Open Beta for a couple days, sure I feel like I've progressed faster than I did when I first started FFXI but some of that I attribute to a beter interface and the great documentation/guides that Blizzard has made avaliable on their website. I was completely and utterly lost when I started FFXI just going by what I found in the instruction book and the ever-hated Brady guide.
I think its great that way. Adding boring timesinks just to make it take longer to hit level 60 is really stupid. If hitting level 60 is the only point of the game then you just don't understand it. You don't hit 60 and then quit...you hit 60 and then go do raids, pvp raids etc...
If you get bored, then just quit...but at least you had a lot of fun for a while.
Now, with FFXI, sure it takes much, much longer to hit 60, but so what?? Most of that time isn't fun! Its not really fun, killing the same mob OVER and over and over and over again...using the same spells, the same attacks etc....its mind numbing!!! I did that for hours on end with my BLM..and after a time, I could do it and watch tv at the same time...it was like mindless repetitive crap.
So when I look at someone who is level 65..I don't feel like he's amazing or he accomplished anything...I think, wow that guy wasted an obscene amount of his life in mindlessness.
Some amount of mindless killing is necessary and even fun...but it gets to a point where it becomes ludicrous. Luckily, so far, I haven't seen that in WoW.
If you get bored, then just quit...but at least you had a lot of fun for a while.
Now, with FFXI, sure it takes much, much longer to hit 60, but so what?? Most of that time isn't fun! Its not really fun, killing the same mob OVER and over and over and over again...using the same spells, the same attacks etc....its mind numbing!!! I did that for hours on end with my BLM..and after a time, I could do it and watch tv at the same time...it was like mindless repetitive crap.
So when I look at someone who is level 65..I don't feel like he's amazing or he accomplished anything...I think, wow that guy wasted an obscene amount of his life in mindlessness.
Some amount of mindless killing is necessary and even fun...but it gets to a point where it becomes ludicrous. Luckily, so far, I haven't seen that in WoW.
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