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I wish Blizzard would make a hardcore mode server :(Follow

#27 Jun 11 2004 at 7:57 AM Rating: Good
I'm pretty sure we all made lvl 99 before the expansion.
The only exception might be myself since I didn't play as much as the rest of them.

I definitely know one guy in our group made it to 99 about 5-6 weeks after it came out. He played a Paladin nonstop for those weeks. Then he helped us level the other characters up to 99. The next two to go in were a Sorc and an Amazon.....I can't remember the order after that.

I know I definitely made it in with my Druid after the expansion. But as you said, it was dead easy to do after the expansion.

(Regular mode...not hardcore)
#28 Jun 11 2004 at 9:16 AM Rating: Decent
Trust me, I saw the first guy that made it to lvl 99, he was europpean.. in softcore and it took nearly a year to reach lvl 99. and that was in softcore..(not expansion) sure now there is more, but its been out for years and the patches ruined the game and made it easier.. Last time I checked hardcore diablo 2 original, there still haven't been a hardcore lvl 99.

I was in the clan AOA with the #3 highest hardcore char which was 89 or so.. and the only characters that made it to lvl 90s were necromancers.. I think the highest paladin was lvl 79 or something.. man how times change, now everyone can be lvl 99 within a week.. pathetic.

It was extremely hard and no one had the guts to fight diablo in hell mode. Powerlevling was impossible in the first version of the game.. but they screwed it up after a year or so.
#29 Jun 21 2004 at 2:07 PM Rating: Decent
I must admit that I find it humourous that people use terms like "too afraid" or "if you have the guts" when discussing a persons preference for Hardcore, PvP, or PvE. What does it have to do with fear? Absolutely nothing. It's merely a persons preference on how they want to spend their time online in a Pay-to-Play environment.

That kind of talk takes me back to the 3rd grade...
#30 Jun 21 2004 at 3:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I'm 100% sure if they did a Diablo mmorpg, a hardcore mode game would attract MANY people


No, it really wouldn't.

Just look at EQ's FFA server. Very low population, and if you told those crazy bastards they'd lose everything they worked for if they got PK'd or died ...?

Not gonna happen.
#31 Jun 22 2004 at 8:33 AM Rating: Decent
Quote:
I must admit that I find it humourous that people use terms like "too afraid" or "if you have the guts" when discussing a persons preference for Hardcore, PvP, or PvE. What does it have to do with fear? Absolutely nothing. It's merely a persons preference on how they want to spend their time online in a Pay-to-Play environment.

That kind of talk takes me back to the 3rd grade...



It's not about gloating... A lot of people do fear losing their chars.. whether its pay to play or hc diablo 2.. If you actually played it, you would understand how ****** it feels to lose your char.. or if someone hostiles you.. how you will **** your pants lol
#32 Jun 22 2004 at 10:16 AM Rating: Decent
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I have not played hardcore as I am a casual gamer due to RL, so I don't have the time to invest in hardcore playing of any style but I see no reason why you cannot have have a dedicated server for this. Then all those who do like to PvP, hardcore or what ever you wish to name it can do so as everyone is in it on that server. The non hardcore'ers are happy and the hardcore'ers are happy too!

As an EQ player, I know the "zek" servers have a variety of PvP - desinged to appeal to all those who wish to kill each other and they all have different rules that apply on each server. Lets get WoW up and running first, iron out any last minute glitches then as subscription to the game begins to rise, then start up a dedicated server for a form of Player vs Player - harcore or otherwise. See how things pan out, see what the demand is. You can always add specific servers at a later date if needed. Just this girl's 2 bit o copper!
#33 Jun 22 2004 at 11:49 AM Rating: Decent
Ok I'm so ******* sick of people who play hardcore thinking they are so much better than people who play softcore in Diablo 2. I played Diablo 2 for over 3 years, and let me ******* tell you, that this ******** you're saying about how hardcore characters "perfect" their characters, and softcore newbs don't care is ******* ********* You make these retarded statements with what you saw in an "a1 hell game" to back them up.

Anyway, my point is - my SC characters were PERFECT, and so were a whole ******** of other peoples SC characters.

They had the BEST possible gear, the best faster cast rate breakpoint, the best faster hit recovery breakpoint, perfect charms, etc... Don't come here and say people who played SC don't know **** about surviving because let me tell you, you have no clue what you're talking about. WHen you're leveling up and you die, you lose a huge chunk of experience. Even in 1.09 when you could get it back in 20 minutes, or an hour, depending on your level, it was still a ***** and pissed people off. Good players RARELY die, and when they do, it's either due to lag, or being 7vs1 in a duel game. My old barb died probably a total of 6 or 7 times (would've been zero if I had used chicken), and all the times he died it was when he was against 3-7 bugged perm slowing zons all vs him. It was a real ***** when I died too because he always had at least 1mill gold on him, and dropping it and letting one of the ******** who killed me take it was really annoying.

Diablo 2 was all about PvP for me, and thousands of others. Dying in duels isn't fun, so people learned, and made better characters, never wasted a single stat, never wasted a single skill point, made their characters PERFECT. Obviously you never played SC much or you'd know what it was all about.

I'm not saying HC isn't fun, or you guys are newbs for playing HC, but please, don't come here are talk **** about how SC people are all newbs because it's not true AT ALL.

ANYWAY.. Back on topic.

I think a hardcore server would be great. If you don't want to play on it, that's fine, don't play on it. If you're a fan of HC play then play on the server. The determining factor should really be how many people will be playing on it, not whether it will be fun for people who don't like HC.
#34 Jun 24 2004 at 8:48 AM Rating: Decent
Obviously they had the best possible gear lol... cause they never died and LOST their gear... ughhh..

the difference is, they died 250 times.. they might have the best gear.. but they don't have hte instinct of staying alive.. they couldn't careless.. they just run amock into 50 monsters and boom they died.. oh big deal they do it again..

Second of all, most of them would stack up on STR, and DEX for zons.. to make uber damage.. but they get their **** kicked if they get hit..

Like I said, face a HC and a SC in a duel..(not noobs both sides good) and the HC will win.. My Druid for example had 9000 hp in hc.. and My Barb had 7,5k hp.. you'd rarely see that in SC.

You don't want to play HC, i coudln't care less.. but for me, I rather duel and find one ear on the floor that is worth something.. rather then going in a duel game and seeing a thousand ears of people dying every 5 seconds cause they don't know how to stay alive. It just sucks the fun out of it..

trust me, there is a WAYYYYYYYYY bigger thrill of killing a lvl 90 Hardcore Char then killnig a lvl 90 softcore char 200 times over and over because you know the guy hasn't died in a long time.. so he's bound to be good and a strong oppoenent(i'm mostly talking before the expansion where it was really hard to reach those levels) It's the thrill of staying alive and beating your opponent.. CAuse I know you're good.. but I tell you this, if you ever start hardcore.. you'd never want to go back cause it gives you a rush that softcore can NEVER do.




But I guess to each their own definition of fun.


Edited, Thu Jun 24 09:50:18 2004 by NBKNAS

Edited, Thu Jun 24 09:51:49 2004 by NBKNAS
#35 Jun 24 2004 at 9:59 AM Rating: Decent
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58 posts
After reading this entire forum I woul dhave to easily say....

HARDCORE IS DUMB you cna't do a ahrdcore server and to you hardcore in D2 is awesome but to me, it is retarded! You die once and you finish if you had the greatest items int he game you die and its over. POINTLESS! Now if this were a PvP server I would say yes do it they are a lot of fun. But not a Hardcore server.
#36 Jun 24 2004 at 1:10 PM Rating: Decent
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I've stated my position on hardcore before. I played off-line. So the whole idea of dueling in Diablo by itself is foreign to me. At most, I played with my 3 roommates on a TCP/IP game. I assume that there were a lot of private Diablo players like me. And for those people, you may as well not even argue about hardcore because it falls on deaf ears.

BUT, that's not what this thread is about. This is about expecting Blizzard to make a server for WoW that is hardcore, and that is even less feasible, because death is an integral part of most MMO's. It wouldn't have to be, no. But I would never deem it appropriate to play "hardcore" in a game where the designers felt it significant to give the players resurrection capabilities.
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#37 Jun 24 2004 at 7:31 PM Rating: Good
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Not to mention youd be missing out on the quests you get while you are dead.
#38 Jun 24 2004 at 9:46 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
HARDCORE IS DUMB you cna't do a ahrdcore server and to you hardcore in D2 is awesome but to me, it is retarded! You die once and you finish if you had the greatest items int he game you die and its over. POINTLESS! Now if this were a PvP server I would say yes do it they are a lot of fun. But not a Hardcore server.



Look, the reason hardcore is so intriguing to many is because of the fact that there is an ACTUAL danger of losing something when dying.. I mean call it retarded or whatever.. but why do cops go work.. they are risking their LIFE.. why do people go in the army? I don't know.. i guess they're crazy.. but the fact that people do it shows that it's happening.. so for a game to have that option isn't all that crazy.. its not that big of a deal inf act.. yes i've lost a couple of hc char.. one of them that took me 3month to built.. so what..

that's the thrill of it... there's no way of explaining it unless you've tried it for yourself. I mean why was there in diablo 2.. 3 hc servers.. each full to capacity.. whether you like it or not, the fact is, a lot of people were intersted in it.


Now, I understand that it might not work for WoW for the simple reason that it was not prepared to have that option.. so ya, its highly unlikely to happen unless they make some changes.. But if there were to ever be a hardcore mode in a mmorpg.. i'll be the first in line for it... :) you gotta try it to understand the thrill it gives over playing normal.
#39 Jun 25 2004 at 1:50 AM Rating: Decent
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469 posts
Thrill? Go skydiving or something.
#40 Jun 25 2004 at 9:59 AM Rating: Default
I've done that :)

and stfu, why the hell are you guys so hostile.. nobody would be forcing you to play it if it were to happen... Lighten up!
#41 Jun 25 2004 at 11:22 PM Rating: Decent
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469 posts
NBKNAS wrote:
I've done that :)
But not with JAEF's patented "Special Pack Parachute o' Fun!" Just try it one more time eh?
NBKNAS wrote:
and stfu
Not a very nice thing to say when you're posting on a forum. The forum is for conversation! If we all stfu, there's no conversation. That would make me sad.
#42 Jun 26 2004 at 7:02 AM Rating: Decent
sorry about the STFU, but you're also being offensif with the things you're saying.. "Thrill? Go skydiving or something." what is that suppose to mean.. Who are you to tell me how to enjoy my games.. I don't judge the reasons why you play the games and nor should you.


I still don't understand why the hostility towards the "IDEA".. there is an audience for it whether you like it or not. And I bet 90% of you complaining about it probably never even tried it... heck just the community is so much better then the sc... that alone makes it more fun ^^

Edited, Sat Jun 26 08:03:51 2004 by NBKNAS
#43 Jun 26 2004 at 10:11 AM Rating: Decent
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6,678 posts
This game is more like Everquest than Diablo, despite it being made by Blizzard. You are aware that Sony tried to make a server with this in mind, called the discord server, only when you died you kept your equipment and simply reset your level to 1. (In Everquest, that may as well be starting over unless you had some awesome equipment.)

The server got a small flurry of activity for a week or two, and by the time a month had gone by, it was deserted. I don't think they even keep the server up still. Few people were getting past level 15, and these are veterans of the game. In Diablo terms, that's like just playing up to Andariel. The games, and genres, do not equate. What works for Diablo will not inherently work for other games.

I'll tell ya what I'll do though. I'll start playing a character that I know how to play, and am experienced with. I have an alt I started with the new push that is presently level 7, and I think has only died once. When he dies another 3 times, I will stop and tell you how far I got. I only say three times because it won't mean anything if I run into a freak accident.

Be back in a couple hours~
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Only the exceptions can be exceptional.
#44 Jun 26 2004 at 10:14 AM Rating: Decent
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NBKNAS wrote:
sorry about the STFU, but you're also being offensif with the things you're saying.. "Thrill? Go skydiving or something." what is that suppose to mean..
Merely a suggestion. *cough*

NBKNAS wrote:
Who are you to tell me how to enjoy my games.. I don't judge the reasons why you play the games and nor should you.
I don't believe anything I said was judgemental.

NBKNAS wrote:
I still don't understand why the hostility towards the "IDEA"..
Because it is a terrible idea. Look how fast SWG removed the "3 deaths and you start over from level 1" penalty from Jedis.

NBKNAS wrote:
there is an audience for it whether you like it or not.
Not one large enough for anyone to make an MMORPG for it, or even just a server.

NBKNAS wrote:
And I bet 90% of you complaining about it probably never even tried it...
Nice generalization. I played Hardcore plenty. Usually died around 70 because I was reckless. Wasn't my sort of thing, really.

When you get a beta account (or a retail account) feel free to suggest it on Blizzard's boards though. Who knows what they'll say... who knows.......... (dot dot.... dot)
#45 Jun 26 2004 at 12:23 PM Rating: Decent
anyways, i'm just glad there's gonna be PVP in the game :D
#46 Jun 26 2004 at 11:11 PM Rating: Decent
OK, now guys, I know how fun and exciting MMORPG's can be, and just video games in general, but come on. To compare people's jobs, such as a cop or something, to a video game and trying to say that they are alike is just nonsense. Yes, I easily understand that it can take "guts" to go PvP, all or nothing, prepared to lose everything you have worked so hard for. I understand that it is not for some people, and that's OK. I would agree that there should be a server for this "Hardcore", hell I'd even try it out. I mean, not everyone has to do it, so why complain about it? My only problem is this: it's still only a game. I think that a lot of you are getting too caught up in it, and trying to compare risking your life in a game to risking it in REAL life for REAL causes is just not right. Have some morals man, if you think that these two things are that similar, then I think you might have some problems. Now don't get me wrong, besides that, I agree with you completely, NBKNAS. And it's not even that I really disagree with you, I just think that if you just sat down and thought about what you are saying and how far you are willing to take this to prove your point, you would remember that it's just a game. Games are for fun, nothing else. In my view, FFXI has almost been ruined by people camping NM's, and they are devoting ridiculous amounts of time into this. No game is designed for people to spend such amounts of time playing them. Yes, FFXI and I'm sure others like it require a lot of time to get to level 75, but that doesn't mean you have to do it as fast as possible. Slow down and enjoy the game. Don't think about what you could do better or having the best equipment. Don't take it so far. Have fun, but don't have it at the cost of ruining a gaming experience for others, and don't go so far as to make parallels with real life with things like risking your life for a cause, at least not seriously. =P
#47 Jun 27 2004 at 6:08 AM Rating: Decent
I didn't mean to compare it that way...

But let me give an example.. i've been in the army... so were a lot of buddies of mine.. our fav game happens to be Rainbow Six 3: Raven Shield.. We don't like other shooters, but we love that game.. why? Because it has that realistic aspect to it...it's a one hit kill and has a very realistic aspect, weapons, equipment among other things... does it make it less fun cause it's more Simulation then let's say all those DOOM or UNREAL TOURNAMENT games... Is it because we were in the army that we like that game? I don't know.. I know a lot of other people who never touched a gun who enjoys that game also.

The fact that we can't stand those games because peopel jump around shooting everything nonstop.. it's just not fun for us.. we rather enjoy use our brain and find ways to beat the opponent instead of running amock shooting like we're rambo.


And we know its just a game.. but that's the aspect of the game that makes it fun for me and for others... That doesn't mean that I have no life, no other things to do.. nothing fun to do in my real life.. I play sports.. I go to bars.. it's just I don't play many games caues most of them don't interest me..

^^ my 2 cents.
#48 Jun 27 2004 at 7:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Joemike wrote:
*stuff that burns my eyes*
Paragraphs please.
#49 Jun 27 2004 at 8:30 AM Rating: Decent
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I'll tell ya what I'll do though. I'll start playing a character that I know how to play, and am experienced with. I have an alt I started with the new push that is presently level 7, and I think has only died once. When he dies another 3 times, I will stop and tell you how far I got. I only say three times because it won't mean anything if I run into a freak accident.


OK, started playing my character from level 6. I died twice in the first five minutes, but this was my own stupidity, so I'm not counting that. After that, I was fine for almost two hours. I got to level 9 without a hitch. Then I did a quest with somebody in the area of that quest, who happened to be grouped with someone else. When I finished that quest and moved on, that other person insisted on grouping and was an idiot and got me killed at the hands of several spell-casting harpies. Death #1.

I promptly left that group and went off to do something else. I've always said herbalism will be the end of me, and not ten minutes later, I proved it. I saw a lovely little flower on my minimap and moved towards it, stopping short a smidge too late to stop from being attacked by two nightstalkers - cats that move in stealth until you get near them. I can survive being beat on by two creatures long enough to run away. However I realized right before I died that a third one came out of the woodwork to keep me from being able to successfully shield-and-run. Death #2.

Ok, have to be more careful. I did a quest inside a dungeon by myself, albeit there were a lot of other people clearing the area, so it was pretty safe. Then I had a quest to go kill Ursal the Mauler. Ursal's in an encampment with about 10 other furbolgs, fairly packed together. Some group was already there and killed him right before I arrived. While waiting on his respawn, I got killed by the other mobs popping. Death #3.

I ran back, rezzed in a corner. Carefully pulled my way out of there, killed Ursal, and then died trying to leave the area. Had my hearthstone been active, I would have just used it, but instead I got gunned down by about 4 spellcasters trying to run out. (I didn't think I was going to be able to single pull my way out safely.) Death #4.

So finally I try to go back and try to do the harpies quest again. I'm level 11 now. They're level 8 and 9. Except that half of them are over-powered spellcasters. I get into a shoot-out with one, that I would have won, when another comes out of nowhere and starts clawing me in the back, preventing me from casting my spells, notably the healing ones. Death #5.

I stopped at this point. Now, almost all these deaths didn't bother me. I got to think over my mistakes for a couple minutes as I ran back to my corpse and realize what I maybe did wrong. But the only thing that would have maybe prevented deaths 2-5 was grouping with somebody, and, well, my first death was *because* I was grouping with someone, so that isn't an immediate solution.

This took place over a span of about 3 real-time hours, about a half hour of which I was afk. That means I died an average of about once every half hour. I realize that some of these deaths were circumstantial, but I know my class, know the quests, and know how to play the game in general. I'd like to think I'm not a total idiot or a "casual player." Still, I died. Repeatedly. Still want a hardcore server?
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#50 Jun 27 2004 at 9:08 AM Rating: Decent
I think the main problem is not what most of you think..

It's the healing factor.. the thing with Diablo 2 was that you could easily get/buy potions and heal yourself rather quickly.. which is totally not the case with FFXI or maybe WOW..

That doesn't necessarly mean that you won't die.. but it would make things easier.. D2's gameplay is much faster pace then most mmorpg.. which is why the healing system is fast paced also.

I think if they were to make a mmorpg down the line with hc capability.. they should balance the healing system in some way to make it possible.. or else i think it might not work.
#51 Jun 28 2004 at 12:32 PM Rating: Decent
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The bottom line is that there is a very small select minority who would be interested in hardcore, and those people aren't enough of a player base to make a game out of, if it means alienating most of the other players. I think an MMO that was hardcore only would be alienating. I think one where hardcore was even feasible probably would be.

Dungeons could not be designed with the expectation that you would die several times figuring it out, and would have to be quite simplistic and non-challenging for the mostpart. Players would have to be given several escape-type skills or an incredible amount of survivability, or it would be too easy to wipe, especially at the hands of someone else training you (accidentally or purposefully.) Every class would have to have some means of readily healing themselves, because who in their right mind would trust another person with their health?, which would make "healing" classes non-existant and everyone just variants of tanks, ranged combat, and combinations of them. The leveling curve would have to be extremely quick to compensate for the fact that your first time fighting some boss-type guy at level 20, you get a total beatdown and can't just try again right away because you have to start a new character.

You would, in essence, be trying to make Diablo the MMO, and I'm not saying Diablo isn't a good game, but it isn't cut out for the sort of experience that an MMO creates. If you try to argue that a game almost identical to Diablo, just in a static world with more than 8 people, would, I think you haven't really played an MMORPG. MMOs are about playing a single character to its extreme. In a social context, people know you as your character, which would disappear when you died. From a player-goal point of view, you strive to get certain items and accomplish certain feats, which you could never complete if you died once and had to start over. The way an MMO is played is not the way Diablo is played, and while the two are not mutually exclusive, they definitely do not coincide.
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