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I wish Blizzard would make a hardcore mode server :(Follow

#1 Jun 06 2004 at 5:34 PM Rating: Default
For those of you who never played Diablo 2, Hardcore mode means that if you die.. you completly lose your character.

Yes I know, it sounds crazy and stupid.. But if you ever played multiplayer diablo 2 hardcore mode... you could NEVER go back to normal(softcore). Trust me, it's so much fun and it gives you that sense of constant danger.. And quite frankly, it makes you a better player over all.

If you were to put a duel between HC and SC char in Diablo2, it was obvious the Hardcore is better prepared.


Now since we are paying for this, I do think there should be some limits to the loss. First thing is that You have to reach a certain lvl and pass a BIG test in the normal mode to be able to get the rights to create a hardcore character in the unique server.(or something to that extent)

Second of all, if you die, you won't lose you ITEMS.. but you will lose your character.. That way, at least you can restart with your money and such, thus making it a bit easier to restart. however, I do think it shouldn't be ALL your stuff.. maybe a certain percentage.. or hen you die, you get to choose only a couple of items from your body or your bank. This will keep the economy fresh, since items will disappear, the circulation of too much stuff won't be as intense.

Now here is the best part.. DUELING!!!

Hardcore Dueling.(btw, I love the PK aspect of Diablo 2, I wish they could do certain DANGER continents where it is allowed to pk.. but to attract people.. u can put BIG quests there that gives you far better rewards then anywhere else)

Dueling Arenas and such is very interesting especially in hardcore mode, because you can put your body on the line(all your belongings) and your EAR(when u die in a duel, you're ear falls and what lvl you are).. thus whoever wins gets his trophy to and gets special attributes/experience/name who knows.

There is so many ways to revolutionize the MMORPG industry.. And Diablo 2 has a lot of the answers in my humble opinion.
#2 Jun 06 2004 at 9:33 PM Rating: Decent
That is not a good idea in my humble opinion, for the main reasons that there are many bugs and disconnects in the first few months of existence of a MMORPG.

Losing your character to a bug, after you have invested a ton of hours in it is not really my idea of fun.

Neither is losing my characters to cheaters, hackers and backstabbers like in Diablo 2.
#3 Jun 06 2004 at 9:43 PM Rating: Decent
Ok first thing.. there is many ways to avoid such a thing.. such as introduce hardcore in an expansion or like a few month later..

second of all, to attract people into HC, there would be unique items for HC that does not exist in normal gampeplay.. other stuff also.. There is countless ways that they can make such a harder style of play seem far more rewarding.


As far as hacking and cheating.. well diablo 2 was a free game.. obviously, They coudln't stop all the hacks considering that its a free online game.. Yet it was still better then 90% of the other games which they didn't even try.. But MMORPG, they are paying so there will be far more security among other things..

I still to this day haven't heard about hackers or cheating in FFXI.. correct me if I'm wrong.

As far as the lag goes.. First of all, you can be assured there won't be lag from there server side. So you have to make your own decision. If you have 56k, then you shouldn't play Hardcore.. But For Cable, there shouldn't be much of a problem

in Hardcore diablo 2, I lost over 7 characters, 2 of them because of lag and 5 in duels.. I killed over 185 lvl 50 and over hardcore in duels.. no cheating, nothing.. and everytime I died, I took it like a man and started all over.. that was the thrill of the game.. when you have a lvl 75 Hardcore character, it just means so much more then having a lvl 100 normal character.. It takes guts and it makes the game more fun.


LIke I said, this style of gameplay is not fit for everyone.. just like in Diablo 2, many chickened out of it, only a few went Hardcore, but when they went, they coudln't go back.
#4 Jun 07 2004 at 12:32 AM Rating: Decent
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526 posts
considering how many times i died just in the first 10 min of play.... no.
#5 Jun 07 2004 at 3:52 AM Rating: Decent
i highly doubt there would be a hardcore server,hell i highly doubt there will be a FFA server.
#6 Jun 07 2004 at 9:10 AM Rating: Decent
NBKNAS wrote:
Ok first thing.. there is many ways to avoid such a thing.. such as introduce hardcore in an expansion or like a few month later..

second of all, to attract people into HC, there would be unique items for HC that does not exist in normal gampeplay.. other stuff also.. There is countless ways that they can make such a harder style of play seem far more rewarding.


As far as hacking and cheating.. well diablo 2 was a free game.. obviously, They coudln't stop all the hacks considering that its a free online game.. Yet it was still better then 90% of the other games which they didn't even try.. But MMORPG, they are paying so there will be far more security among other things..

I still to this day haven't heard about hackers or cheating in FFXI.. correct me if I'm wrong.

As far as the lag goes.. First of all, you can be assured there won't be lag from there server side. So you have to make your own decision. If you have 56k, then you shouldn't play Hardcore.. But For Cable, there shouldn't be much of a problem

in Hardcore diablo 2, I lost over 7 characters, 2 of them because of lag and 5 in duels.. I killed over 185 lvl 50 and over hardcore in duels.. no cheating, nothing.. and everytime I died, I took it like a man and started all over.. that was the thrill of the game.. when you have a lvl 75 Hardcore character, it just means so much more then having a lvl 100 normal character.. It takes guts and it makes the game more fun.


LIke I said, this style of gameplay is not fit for everyone.. just like in Diablo 2, many chickened out of it, only a few went Hardcore, but when they went, they coudln't go back.


Well, cheaters, hackers and botters are rampant in FFXI ( think about all those bot NM hunters or fishers. )

Then take a look at lineage 2: Cheaters by the dozens. Just a look at their board will confirm you that.

Exploiters have always been a problem in MMORPG, and it would be in hardcore games I think.

Also, I suppose that by your plan, if you die to a mob, yoiu are also dead forever, unless I'm wrong.

Everyone has died at least once, even in a 1 year old MMORPG because they loaded 3 seconds after the mob, that was camping the zone line on the other side. That would be way too risky.

Also, what about the guy who fights a mob, then when he is near death, get jumped by a stalker that kills him........no one would go out to fight anymore.

An alternative I thought about might be this. Hardcore server with new items and storylines for examples, BUT you don't die once and for all from mobs or from players in the wilderness ( of course its a pvp server ) that is just a normal death.

BUT, to earn the right to stay on the server you MUST duel a member of the opposing faction at least once a week in specialized "arenas". You can either go one on one, or in group. This is a fight to the death, and if you lose your character, then its dead for good.

Those zones could be supervised by GM's against cheating and hacking.

Now I would jump both feet in your hardcore server...
#7 Jun 07 2004 at 11:53 AM Rating: Decent
Obviously there are many things to consider for a Hardcore server.. I'm not saying that it would be under the same configuration that the current game is..

However, I do expect people to die in hardcore, And that's the thrill of it.. to survive and last longer.

I mean even HC diablo 2, with so many hacks these days(and there weren't even close as many before.. its because Blizzard is working on new games MMORPG etc, they can't keep concentrating on a who knows how old game).. and even at that, there are still ton of HC players that play.. cause even PKING has its own satisfactory.

and surviving an attack is also something.. That gives even more danger to the game. Now i'm not saying EVERYONE can be hostile to others in that continent.. but rather sort of a system where someone has to put on hostile mode in town before getting out.. and obviously there should be "town portals" or such to escape.(obviously not every game out there can do that mode, cause they were not prepared for.. but if you were to create a whole new game, u can make sure that the hardcore mode is viable)

Also, if there is a hostile character in a certain distance, an alarm will tell you that let's say a 100 meters radius, there is a PKer or such.

You guys seem to overreact with the whole PKing.. cause there is also many ways to counter a PK. If someone becomes a PKK( PK killer), they get more bonus, just like a cop stopping a bad guy.

You get the jist of this? Guilds can start, and wars can break out between Alliances of PKs and PKKs.

I remember Blizzard was once thinking of making a Hardcore Tourney of lvl 50-60 70-80 etc. and it was moderated, whoever survives wins Cash prize or a free subscription to the game for a year or so, 2nd place 3rd place etc.

I was a HC dueler in Diablo 2 and I got myself over 150 ears fair and square against lvl 50 and over fighters and pkers. It was much more fun then going after monster after monster(actually its kind of like fighting multiplayer raven shield where you fight another intelligent opponent)
#8 Jun 07 2004 at 3:46 PM Rating: Decent
I don't think I'm over reacting to pk as a whole. The problem I have is mainly with dying from something that is not implemented in the game.

(EX: Lie, cheat, 3rd party program as a whole. )

If this is controlled, then I'm up for it, because when I die, I'll only have myself to blame or the other player to praise.
#9 Jun 08 2004 at 4:57 AM Rating: Decent
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526 posts
one death = gone for good...

what happens to all the gear and such? the victor that slayed him gets to loot the corpse and take everything they own? i dunno... Zeler brings up many valid points... i despise PvP so, it wouldnt matter to me because i wont go into it. to many games that ive played had PvP that was just all grief and no fun for me...
#10 Jun 08 2004 at 6:50 AM Rating: Decent
Now since this is a pay to play

I think there should be a way to manage to get most of your stuff back in your bank or whatever..

Like I said, there is many things that can be considered to make the Hardcore thing attractive, yet extremely dangerous..
#11 Jun 08 2004 at 11:46 AM Rating: Decent
Quote:
considering how many times i died just in the first 10 min of play.... no.
or you just suk,one of the two lol.
#12 Jun 08 2004 at 10:23 PM Rating: Default
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469 posts
Quote:
or you just suk,one of the two lol.

You obviously haven't played the game. Flaming is not amusing.

And to as to hardcore mode (for ANY MMORPG for that matter):

No no no no no never no no.

And no. I don't care how deranged you are, that would never be entertaining.
#13 Jun 09 2004 at 6:18 AM Rating: Decent
Just because you're afraid of doing it does not mean you must deprived the ones who have the guts lol.

what you don't seem to understand is that the games out there today aren't ment to have a hardcore option, which is why it seems like a bad idea..

But give for example a game like diablo2 and turn it's concept into a mmorpg +a bit of evolutionary system and you got yourself the best mmorpg to date imo.

the skill system, theweapons database, the dueling system and hardcore baby!

you obviously have never played hc in diablo 2, cause anyone who has(and doens't suck ***) would never hate that concept
#14 Jun 09 2004 at 8:57 PM Rating: Default
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469 posts
I'm getting sick of people compairing Diablo 2 and World of Warcraft. I bought Diablo 2 when it came out and played both softcore and hardcore plenty. If you want Diablo 2, you go play Diablo 2. That is a game type that can support hardcore play. The internet is a fickle mistress, and when one lag spike can cost you weeks and weeks of work, is it really worth it?

An MMOG with a hardcore feature, even if the entire MMO was built around the hardcore feature, would be a dirt poor MMOG.
#15 Jun 09 2004 at 9:50 PM Rating: Default
people get hit by a car because of fluke.. so lag is part of the game.. it's no excuse.. even PKING is part of hardcore.. and as far as MMORPG goes, I still haven't had any lag problems..
#16 Jun 09 2004 at 10:00 PM Rating: Default
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469 posts
Quote:
people get hit by a car because of fluke

I just like that a lot for some reason. In fact I think I'll sig that.

Edited, Wed Jun 9 23:02:37 2004 by JAEFo
#17 Jun 10 2004 at 6:37 AM Rating: Decent
yay ^^ lol
#18 Jun 10 2004 at 10:17 AM Rating: Good
NBKNAS wrote:
people get hit by a car because of fluke.. so lag is part of the game.. it's no excuse.. even PKING is part of hardcore.. and as far as MMORPG goes, I still haven't had any lag problems..


You're right, but I don't think there'll be high demand for a server where you can create a character that could get wiped out because of:
-lag
-computer glitch
-dog peeing on your leg as you're about to kill the other guy
-pop up window popping up at the worst moment

Getting hit by a car is a chance people take every day, but it's also something they can prepare for and avoid. Don't cross against the light; don't play in traffic; look both ways before crossing the street, etc. It's part of the details of life that we are used to.

The fact is that not many people want to play a game that mimics real life in ALL those details. They play a game to escape and have fun. And one of the best parts of playing games is the fact that you have second chances...third chances...etc. You can always restore from a save point and fix your mistakes.

I'm not saying that no one out there wants the hardcore server. I'm just saying that few people want it.
#19 Jun 10 2004 at 1:31 PM Rating: Decent
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469 posts
There you go Cloaked. That's what I was trying to say before the blind rage mangled my words.
#20 Jun 10 2004 at 3:00 PM Rating: Decent
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6,678 posts
Every once in a while, the topic of a hardcore server comes up on the beta discussion boards, and every time it gets shot down.

To your credit, people should not be dying excessively in the first 10 minutes of play, as Tartesk indicates. I was playing for about 3 hours, and level 6 or 7, before I died the first time.

But die, you will. It happens. It's part of the game. You take one step into the wrong area, you get jumped by high-level creatures and die. You wander into some dungeon somebody else had cleared and get caught in their respawn, you die.

People put entirely too much effort into MMO games, and unlike Diablo, the game is designed to be very strictly not-PL-able, and not a super quick level gain. People talk about how they could get a character to level 70 in 2 days in Diablo. There are a couple yahoos that got their character to 39 with the advent of the last push, but most people who had been playing the game previously still took well over two weeks.

In addition, PvP is far from balanced. I'm not saying it was in Diablo. But Blizzard is still working hard on making their PvP system reasonable and I have my doubts it ever will be. Not that I planned on playing PvP in the first place.

In addition, I have played hardcore in Diablo, and while it was neat at first, when I got caught in one bad situation with an LE and died, even while only in act III in normal, I got extremely upset. I tried it again and got further, before dying horribly to Baal. I gave up on hardcore after that and didn't intend to go back in that game. There are some games I think could support the option nicely, but they are games that don't have character abilities specifically designed to return people to life when they die. Any game that has a "resurrection" skill clearly *intends* for you to die occasionally, and in a game like that, HC will never work.
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Only the exceptions can be exceptional.
#21 Jun 10 2004 at 3:33 PM Rating: Decent
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526 posts
Main reason i died about 3 times in the first 10 min was because i was just walking around not attacking anything... only one death at around level 6 was me actually attackin the monster. i wanted to explore a bit. didnt think that there would be mobs that agro in the starting zone, and when you run around for a bit around them, well... your gunna have a train.
#22 Jun 10 2004 at 11:39 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
People put entirely too much effort into MMO games, and unlike Diablo, the game is designed to be very strictly not-PL-able, and not a super quick level gain. People talk about how they could get a character to level 70 in 2 days in Diablo. There are a couple yahoos that got their character to 39 with the advent of the last push, but most people who had been playing the game previously still took well over two weeks.


Actually, before the expansion, the original diablo 2, there was only ONE character that managed to get to lvl 99 and it was in softcore and actually took him over a year to do it.

the highest hardcore character was like lvl 89 which took him nearly a year also.. it wasn't until the expansion that power levling started and everything gotlame.


Now as I said, the problem with hardcore mode in the current gaming mode is that it's not compatible with ffxi or other games out there.. why? Because the option was not considered so there was no need for it.

However, when you talk about how you died of a LE or such, and that it frustrated you.. my question is, how come hundreds of thousands of hardcore players died and yet kept playing over and over? Maybe hardcore doesn't suit you?

I honestly have only died once in hardcore due to a monster. it was act 3 nightmare and i was only lvl 37, I didn't even know what those blowing up dolls were so leaped one which was also lightning enhanced.. died on the spot.. I was so pissed lol.. it took time, but I got over it.

the difference is, I LEARNED from that lesson and I never made stupid mistakes like that again.. for 2 years, i never died in hardcore unless it involved duels. i had lvl 99 hardcore char and a lvl 75 hardcore character(in normal d2 where it was increidbly harder)

the thing is, when I used to go back to softcore, I would notice people dying every 5 minutes.. and it's as if they have nothing to worry about, they go kill fast fast fast die, go back kill.. for me personally, it was so dull.. the characters were poorly built compared to the hardcore ones and the gaming factor was so tamed.


Hardcore isn't for everyone and it will never be. It's like games like Raven Shield.. most people just like DOOM games where you shoot baddies and kill kill kill.. where Raven Shield is based on realistic fighting, which imo, draws me far more into the game then a unreal tournament game.

And There is many ways to fix the lag problem.. first of all, they could find out if it was their servers that lagged or yours.. since you're paying for the game, they always automatically check if their servers caused the death or such.. it is however your responsibility on your side. If you have 56k or some crappy cable conection,t he hardcore isn't for you.

i have been playign ffxi for a long time now, i haven't had a single ounce of lag.. EVER!

And let's face it, if you played diablo 2, you would know what saturday night lag is all about.. yet a LOT of people managed to survive through it.. why? cause you ADAPT.. someone with a normal character mentality would never survive cause his idea of fighting is just going in the fight no holds barred..

while the hardcore finds every little aspect of making his character perfect, and saves his money for the important things such as potions, ways of escape, among other things.
#23 Jun 11 2004 at 2:32 AM Rating: Decent
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469 posts
NBKNAS wrote:
Hardcore isn't for everyone and it will never be

And there will never be enough of a market for a hardcore MMORPG for anyone to actually make one. So if you want one, I suggest you get started with your coding.
#24 Jun 11 2004 at 6:51 AM Rating: Decent
I disagree

I'm 100% sure if they did a Diablo mmorpg, a hardcore mode game would attract MANY people
#25 Jun 11 2004 at 7:20 AM Rating: Good
NBKNAS wrote:


Actually, before the expansion, the original diablo 2, there was only ONE character that managed to get to lvl 99 and it was in softcore and actually took him over a year to do it.


Are you talking about me? Or one of my 5 friends that also made it to 99? We all played normal mode on Bnet and we all were 99.
I was a Necro named Darth_Penguin.

Took the first guy about a month. Then the rest of us followed a week or two after.
#26 Jun 11 2004 at 7:30 AM Rating: Decent
Anyone could reach lvl99 after the expansion..

do you remember before the expansion came out.. how hard it was to lvl up past lvl 50.. heck the first guy that managed to get to lvl 99(softcore) had 7 other people practically going with him to diablo in hell(which was suicide back then) help him out till he is almost dead and he would kill him alone to get more exp.. for like weeks he did that to get from lvl 94 to 99


and hardcore was simply impossible to reach lvl 99 back then.. it wasn't until the expansion where people started lvlin like crazy in the cow lvls over and over again and made the game lame.
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