Ok here is My 2 bits. I hit the OP and a few in the middle and then the last or as far as before my post the last.
I think the General Problem with MMORPG's and the players, is the fact that they all want to be #1 right now! (we all rushed through the game to be lvl 50, then lvl 60 was the highest and 4 days later everyone was 60, Etc.) now I dont mean to say that people are jerks or they only care about themselves.
The Begining of EQ1 had somethings that I have yet to see in anyother game I have played. A Real thriving Community, Player Built, not Game Enforced.
I know from here on out I'm going to be Quoted and Bashed and my name spit on but really if any of you played eq1 for even a month back in '99 or 2000 you should have seen the ECL Tunnel in all of its laggy Pre-Bazaar glory. Sure we all had to look at the ground to actually get to the guy we were buying from (and the Real Bazaar didnt change that) but we did it because there was really no where else to do it so WE made it that way.
EQ1 was a Real world to many of us,
it had places to explore things to do from lvl 1-50, All the classes were a great deal different from eachother, from what I have Read about EQ2 (because yes I have not yet played it) it just seems that Although having a Fury in the Party will not mean the Templar is worthless, it does mean that having a Fury in the party means that you dont need a templar in the party. EQ1 Before all the expansions a druid had a hard time keeping a full group alive, not that it wasnt possible I had seen it done and done well many times. BUT everyone knows it was MUCH easyer for a cleric to take on that task they were built for keeping groups alive thats what clerics are, they are preists for the people, a druid is a solo preist who enjoys the woods because there is no people there. Now the fury can make a full group quite effective without so much as a shadow of difficulty trying to keep everyone healed. What I'm saying is that EQ1 everyone had their purpose Monks had their way to fight, Warriors theirs, everyone had a job, and NOT everyone was a soloable class Monks could take down quite difficult situations without so much as a scratch, that made people mad, why? hes a monk, have you not ever seen a jackie chan movie? (sure its not Totally realisitc, but come now it is a fantasy game, I know we dont want realistic or it would be a bunch of Human Bussiness men with suits and briefcases "The New Face of Gameing with all the Realism in Tact!" we dont want "Real" just Logical, it makes sence for a monk to beat down 5 guys, and a Paladin to run to the aid of a young [Newb] adventurer thats why we all picked the classes we did when we started, we knew just by looking at it that thats what we signed up for) comeone for real here. I guess my Gripe is that Eq2 is more of a "Game" than an "Experience" and I dont care who you are or what game you played There never was nor ever will be one like EQ, I mean EQ isnt even Like EQ anymore so how could anyone else expect to be that way? yes Eq2 is its own game, but there are so many things they could do to make it "feel" the same way without destroying its individuality like not making us all have to be a certain level to go somewhere or what not. I dont know just my 2 bits.
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Tharis- Level 0 Pre-Newb- Black Burrow
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What I'm saying is that EQ1 everyone had their purpose Monks had their way to fight, Warriors theirs, everyone had a job, and NOT everyone was a soloable class
EQ1 was all about grouping after level 10 or so, for most classes. Over time, grouping came to require the "Holy Trinity" of Warrior, Cleric and Enchanter. Once you had those three spots filled, you could take anyone else and have a solid group. If you lacked one of those three, your group was severely gimped.
If you fell in the "everyone else" category you had a hard time finding groups. If you were one of the holy three, you couldn't do anything without a group. This led to a lot of sitting around and waiting - NOT fun.
Do you really want to go back to that?
BTW, it seems since the update it's hard for one priest of any sort to keep a full group alive if the group is "pushing the content". Most groups prefer to have 2 different healing classes, at least for backup.
As a Templar I feel like my ability to heal a full group alone has been weakened, and I'm not alone. Some Templars feel we should be healers only and should be much better than any other priest class. For the reasons stated above, I do not. I don't mind being one of 8 capable healing classes, as long as I can solo effectively whan I want (which I can) and I have utility (which SOE needs to work on.)
9 posts
So basicly instead of playing the game for the experience it was, and walking around to see things you hadn't seen before, you sat around and waited. Thats why they had things like Crafting, you could make your self a bunch of arrows and or Jewelry or what not and wait that way, you didnt have to sit around. My point was that In EQ2 they only give Exp for exploring things/places that are close to your level or even below thats not a challange there were plenty of times that as a lvl 4 newb in EQ that I stood next to the Frenzied ghoul in L Guk, it was exhilrating and fun and being lvl 4 didnt stop me unless I was the one to ***** up and die, and it didnt give me Exp and you know what I didnt care.
You see my point in saying that people were so worried about being LvL 50 (or now 70) that they never took the time to actually appreciate the world for what it was? Have you ever taken a lowbe oger into Kelethin and walked up to the bank? its fun and challanging and has nothing to do with Exp thats what makes it fun, that little gold bar is like Meth once you get a little you never want to stop thats why Hunting became such a mundain thing, becuase people just wanted to be the Highest level right off the bat instead of really PLAYING the game.
Many people that Played EQ would say that they never used Warriors to Tank, Never Used Clerics to heal and Never used Enchanters to Crowd control. There were other lesser ways of doing that (Those three might have been the BEST for the job but that didnt mean that others couldnt do that job.) they may not have been as good of ways and all 6 people in your group might need to work harder but it didnt mean you couldnt group or couldnt get Decent, if not Really good Exp you just had to have more trust in who you were playing with.
As for Clerics not being a "Solo Class" or any class not being a "Solo Class" in EQ, that just depended on where you were fighting, I soloed quite effectively in the Undead zones, but why would I want my Cleric to be Solo in ALL situations? I wouldnt thats not what a cleric is, he's a preist, a holy man, hes there to help people and heal others and Rid the world of the taint of Evil, A druid is a worshiper of Nature and as such has his powers over animals and the weather, Then why would it be so odd to see a druid solo in the out door zones where there were lots of animals? it wasnt and we all did see druids doing that. Paladins, Rangers, Rouges, Bards, Warriors, Mages, Wizards, Necros were all quite good at solo play, I could go on for hours about how to solo with any class in EQ1 I played it for 5 years, I'm not worried weather the monk is better than my cleric at soloing or weather my cleric has to group in the Great Divide because its not undead, thats what makes him different from me and what makes him a monk and me a cleric and thats what made EQ1 Great. You just had to be in certain zones that you had advantages in to do your Soloing in, every class had its advantages just because you couldnt solo the Best in the Fungus Grove at a certain level didnt meant that in 5 or 10 more levels you couldn't effectively solo there or somewhere else. Thats where Stratagy and Fenesse came into the game, trial and error, IE PLAYING the GAME. Not fussing over the fact that someone else was better than you.
Now they have the game so Balanced that most Spells and Combat arts are so close together that all that is different is the name which is used to designate the ability and the name of the class and subclass that you are (they have the arch-types pretty seperated), thats it. I'm sorry I dont mean to bash on EQ2 I'm sure its great and I plan on Playing it for what it is, but it doesnt even come close to the original Glory, BTW I dont want to Go back to EQ1 because of things that dont mean anything, level was never Important enough to Grind for hours on end for. Its an electronic game the only thing that matters or stays, after the game is no longer played by anyone, is weather you had fun or not if you arent, dont play. because there is nothing perminent comming from it to benifit you, and if you arent having fun because someone else can Grind in a Higher Level Zone than you, then Play a console RPG then NO ONE can Be Higher level than you in-game and you can appreciate the game for what it is.
If Being the Best most powerful Character in the game is what you want then make one of the holy trinity and then be a group grunt. I'm sure EQ2 has its good things, I really like that EQ2 made it so that any race could be any class thats a much more logical way of looking at things, and the Betrayal is an understandable way of regulating that, while still makeing it feel like you are doing something that is authentic and Risky, (betraying your race and traditions is something that shouldnt be taken lightly) just because the person wants to see a halfling Shadow knight doesnt mean that they should just be able to jump on and do it on a whim, so the betrayal keeps people from just jumping on making the character and then never playing it, because it was a joke in the fristplace. not that I have anything against halfling Shadowknights just people who make them to be "funny" and then never play them. yes I understand that that is their choice I dont need to be told that its just silly and innane to me.
there now you have 4 cents
Tharis
Edited, Tue Oct 11 18:54:27 2005 by Tharis
You see my point in saying that people were so worried about being LvL 50 (or now 70) that they never took the time to actually appreciate the world for what it was? Have you ever taken a lowbe oger into Kelethin and walked up to the bank? its fun and challanging and has nothing to do with Exp thats what makes it fun, that little gold bar is like Meth once you get a little you never want to stop thats why Hunting became such a mundain thing, becuase people just wanted to be the Highest level right off the bat instead of really PLAYING the game.
Many people that Played EQ would say that they never used Warriors to Tank, Never Used Clerics to heal and Never used Enchanters to Crowd control. There were other lesser ways of doing that (Those three might have been the BEST for the job but that didnt mean that others couldnt do that job.) they may not have been as good of ways and all 6 people in your group might need to work harder but it didnt mean you couldnt group or couldnt get Decent, if not Really good Exp you just had to have more trust in who you were playing with.
As for Clerics not being a "Solo Class" or any class not being a "Solo Class" in EQ, that just depended on where you were fighting, I soloed quite effectively in the Undead zones, but why would I want my Cleric to be Solo in ALL situations? I wouldnt thats not what a cleric is, he's a preist, a holy man, hes there to help people and heal others and Rid the world of the taint of Evil, A druid is a worshiper of Nature and as such has his powers over animals and the weather, Then why would it be so odd to see a druid solo in the out door zones where there were lots of animals? it wasnt and we all did see druids doing that. Paladins, Rangers, Rouges, Bards, Warriors, Mages, Wizards, Necros were all quite good at solo play, I could go on for hours about how to solo with any class in EQ1 I played it for 5 years, I'm not worried weather the monk is better than my cleric at soloing or weather my cleric has to group in the Great Divide because its not undead, thats what makes him different from me and what makes him a monk and me a cleric and thats what made EQ1 Great. You just had to be in certain zones that you had advantages in to do your Soloing in, every class had its advantages just because you couldnt solo the Best in the Fungus Grove at a certain level didnt meant that in 5 or 10 more levels you couldn't effectively solo there or somewhere else. Thats where Stratagy and Fenesse came into the game, trial and error, IE PLAYING the GAME. Not fussing over the fact that someone else was better than you.
Now they have the game so Balanced that most Spells and Combat arts are so close together that all that is different is the name which is used to designate the ability and the name of the class and subclass that you are (they have the arch-types pretty seperated), thats it. I'm sorry I dont mean to bash on EQ2 I'm sure its great and I plan on Playing it for what it is, but it doesnt even come close to the original Glory, BTW I dont want to Go back to EQ1 because of things that dont mean anything, level was never Important enough to Grind for hours on end for. Its an electronic game the only thing that matters or stays, after the game is no longer played by anyone, is weather you had fun or not if you arent, dont play. because there is nothing perminent comming from it to benifit you, and if you arent having fun because someone else can Grind in a Higher Level Zone than you, then Play a console RPG then NO ONE can Be Higher level than you in-game and you can appreciate the game for what it is.
If Being the Best most powerful Character in the game is what you want then make one of the holy trinity and then be a group grunt. I'm sure EQ2 has its good things, I really like that EQ2 made it so that any race could be any class thats a much more logical way of looking at things, and the Betrayal is an understandable way of regulating that, while still makeing it feel like you are doing something that is authentic and Risky, (betraying your race and traditions is something that shouldnt be taken lightly) just because the person wants to see a halfling Shadow knight doesnt mean that they should just be able to jump on and do it on a whim, so the betrayal keeps people from just jumping on making the character and then never playing it, because it was a joke in the fristplace. not that I have anything against halfling Shadowknights just people who make them to be "funny" and then never play them. yes I understand that that is their choice I dont need to be told that its just silly and innane to me.
there now you have 4 cents
Tharis
Edited, Tue Oct 11 18:54:27 2005 by Tharis
oh jeez... Tharis, some paragraphs, please!
You misunderstand me, Tharis, I'm not a min-maxer, and I've never been big on grinding for experience. I played EQ1 because of friends and to see new things. The class balancing and group orientation in EQ1 is a fact of life that underlies everything in the game. EQ2 has a much more flexible system.
I think it's also a much better world to explore - all the quests and many NPC's you talk to will give you a bit of insight into how the new world works. It's like reading history and piecing together the big picture a little bit at a time.
I think it's also a much better world to explore - all the quests and many NPC's you talk to will give you a bit of insight into how the new world works. It's like reading history and piecing together the big picture a little bit at a time.
Scholar
27 posts
just my 2 cents worth here.
Based on the length of time it takes to get barried into most MMORPGs Im still just a beginner at EQ2. But I am from EQ1 also. My two favorite toons there were Beastlord and Druid. But currently Im playing an enchanter on the Befallen server, and having a blast.
What Im noticing about EQ2 is that its set up with both a never ending supply of quests, and also a way to level up without having to do those quests. I personally love this. There are times I dont feel like doing quests, and just want to go kill stuff. And there are times I love running around doing the multitude of quests and digging deeper into the lore aspect. Definitely no shortage of them as when I complete one I usually end up with two more. But with having no emphasis, it makes it so one can choose. Might just be me, but I like the choice more than anything else.
There is some emphasis in that if I see a specific item strictly quested that someone is showing off thats totally cool, I know that I need to do the quest to get it. But if I dont want to do the quest I dont have to. So far I havent run into any actual requirements yet.
And I've noticed that if you have good people that know how to play there characters there isnt necessarily a required set of classes that need to be used for grouping in either EQ1 or in EQ2. Though in EQ2 it seems to be more open than EQ1. For example if Im not available on my enchanter to mezz a mob, my friends can use an extra healer to help keep up on heals, or someone to root the extra mobs away from the group, or plenty of other choices.
And soloing is easier in EQ2 for those times you cant get a group. With a larger con range for xp mobs, theres a wider choice for any solo class to handle. (if your carefull and pay attention to what your doing). Yes exp might go slower, but atleast your still making progress rather than spending all that time LFG.
And Im loving that i can choose my tradeskills also. That was one i didnt like from EQ1. for example you had to be an enchanter to have jewelcrafting. In EQ2 no matter what class I am, I can do any skill I want.
But again just my 2 cents worth. I love having the choices, and having a game with those choices for the times that I get moody and either want or dont want to do something. Theres always something to explore or delve into.
Based on the length of time it takes to get barried into most MMORPGs Im still just a beginner at EQ2. But I am from EQ1 also. My two favorite toons there were Beastlord and Druid. But currently Im playing an enchanter on the Befallen server, and having a blast.
What Im noticing about EQ2 is that its set up with both a never ending supply of quests, and also a way to level up without having to do those quests. I personally love this. There are times I dont feel like doing quests, and just want to go kill stuff. And there are times I love running around doing the multitude of quests and digging deeper into the lore aspect. Definitely no shortage of them as when I complete one I usually end up with two more. But with having no emphasis, it makes it so one can choose. Might just be me, but I like the choice more than anything else.
There is some emphasis in that if I see a specific item strictly quested that someone is showing off thats totally cool, I know that I need to do the quest to get it. But if I dont want to do the quest I dont have to. So far I havent run into any actual requirements yet.
And I've noticed that if you have good people that know how to play there characters there isnt necessarily a required set of classes that need to be used for grouping in either EQ1 or in EQ2. Though in EQ2 it seems to be more open than EQ1. For example if Im not available on my enchanter to mezz a mob, my friends can use an extra healer to help keep up on heals, or someone to root the extra mobs away from the group, or plenty of other choices.
And soloing is easier in EQ2 for those times you cant get a group. With a larger con range for xp mobs, theres a wider choice for any solo class to handle. (if your carefull and pay attention to what your doing). Yes exp might go slower, but atleast your still making progress rather than spending all that time LFG.
And Im loving that i can choose my tradeskills also. That was one i didnt like from EQ1. for example you had to be an enchanter to have jewelcrafting. In EQ2 no matter what class I am, I can do any skill I want.
But again just my 2 cents worth. I love having the choices, and having a game with those choices for the times that I get moody and either want or dont want to do something. Theres always something to explore or delve into.
Tharis wrote:
Something REALLY REALLY REALLY LONG
I agree with some of your points Tharis, but I must admit, reading it made me want to vomit. I seriously got cross-eyed.
Hit that enter button a few times on tha next post please.
9 posts
Well Lydiaele if you were misunderstood it wasnt my fault, your complaint seemed to have more to do with EXP and waiting around then actually enjoying the game where ever you where.
I can understand That there is going to be an obvious underlying Group and Solo Balanceing in the game, other wise it wouldnt be a game. My problem isnt that the game is wrong, but it seems like Sony, has pushed limits on areas that just don't need limits I.E. zones and places being barred from Low level players. I understand that some zones in EQ were blocked from Low Level Players but Almost ALL of those were out of the way and most dungeons, I just dont see why we need to be blocked from going somewhere in the world.
Character Balancing my problem is that Sure I want to be a Templar, but in EQ1 I was a Cleric because of my abilities, in EQ2 I'm a Templar because I have the name, and because the names of the abilities I do have are "Templarish" sounding but have no Definite difference between me and any other Priest class. The reason why Templars should be able to heal a whole group and make them go strong is because thats what Templars, Vicars, Clerics, did and in some cases still do in real life (I.E. more logical) not in magical powers but lets liken it to spiritual healing. not that Shamans and Druids didnt but they defineatly had different sizes of groups in the real world.
Thats my point, Logic, it makes it so much more fun if I can use my class for what it was ment for in RL, and then jump on another Class of the same archtype and play a TOTALLY different way, and I dont just mean different battle tactics but I mean my whole goal as a Cleric soloing would be to find a crypt, as a shaman, it would be to find a rival tribe of say, goblins, as a druid, to find the tainted parts of the forest and use the animals to help me rid the world of it. you see? its a Role Playing Game, not a Balanced Character Playing Game, no one in real life is balanced why should our characters be? But hey not to be rude just saying it makes more sence that way.
PS sorry for the no Enter buttons, I have to write fast
Edited, Wed Oct 12 13:10:36 2005 by Tharis
I can understand That there is going to be an obvious underlying Group and Solo Balanceing in the game, other wise it wouldnt be a game. My problem isnt that the game is wrong, but it seems like Sony, has pushed limits on areas that just don't need limits I.E. zones and places being barred from Low level players. I understand that some zones in EQ were blocked from Low Level Players but Almost ALL of those were out of the way and most dungeons, I just dont see why we need to be blocked from going somewhere in the world.
Character Balancing my problem is that Sure I want to be a Templar, but in EQ1 I was a Cleric because of my abilities, in EQ2 I'm a Templar because I have the name, and because the names of the abilities I do have are "Templarish" sounding but have no Definite difference between me and any other Priest class. The reason why Templars should be able to heal a whole group and make them go strong is because thats what Templars, Vicars, Clerics, did and in some cases still do in real life (I.E. more logical) not in magical powers but lets liken it to spiritual healing. not that Shamans and Druids didnt but they defineatly had different sizes of groups in the real world.
Thats my point, Logic, it makes it so much more fun if I can use my class for what it was ment for in RL, and then jump on another Class of the same archtype and play a TOTALLY different way, and I dont just mean different battle tactics but I mean my whole goal as a Cleric soloing would be to find a crypt, as a shaman, it would be to find a rival tribe of say, goblins, as a druid, to find the tainted parts of the forest and use the animals to help me rid the world of it. you see? its a Role Playing Game, not a Balanced Character Playing Game, no one in real life is balanced why should our characters be? But hey not to be rude just saying it makes more sence that way.
PS sorry for the no Enter buttons, I have to write fast
Edited, Wed Oct 12 13:10:36 2005 by Tharis
...he did it again... :(
it just goes to show you, you can lead a horse to water...
...is worth two in the bush. I mean...dang...
Quote:
it just goes to show you, you can lead a horse to water...
...But you can't beat it to death with a hammer!!!
(or maybe you can 
) Quote:
...is worth two in the bush. I mean...dang...
Edited, Wed Oct 12 10:27:41 2005 by Mearyk
So you want a 
now, or are you just 
ing around?
Edited, Wed Oct 12 17:58:23 2005 by dirges
now, or are you just 
ing around? 
Edited, Wed Oct 12 17:58:23 2005 by dirges
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