I finally won't have to raid to endgame!Follow

It still blows my mind that people don't see that having strong feelings about something stems from actually giving a ****.

There isn't always wrong and right. Experience will vary from player to player based on what they enjoy. As long as you qualify your opinion with some sort of experience or at least show that you've given it some thought outside of how it affects you directly, that opinion should be respected.

It might be easier on the eyes if all we saw was praise for the game, but the negative opinions(read: honest opinions) about the state of the game are what brought the game to where it is now. It wasn't that long ago that SE didn't listen to player voices and rarely gave you more information about what they were doing than a few images and a "look forward to it". At least now you know what's coming and where the devs are heading rather than having to wake up early to read patch notes the day things go live.

Once the game's success begins to wane these people will slowly disappear. It was a traumatic experience to witness the game become so successful, that some people simply can't deal with it. The problem becomes even more acute if said people live in a fantasy wonderland where games like FFXI are "better". They can't help themselves.

The best thing to do here is to be understanding, nod and smile whenever they're talking nonsense and to simply let them play out their dollhouse scenarios where the game isn't as good as it is.

Not all fans have to blindly accept anything SE does as being amazing. Some of them actually want to enjoy the game and they're not content with playing simply because it's branded.

As I've said before, I was a fan of my favorite football team when they were winning super bowls and I'm a fan now when they're consistently at the bottom of their division. Just because you're a fan of something doesn't mean you can't spot or even point out what the problems are.


I have a very talented artistic friend who drew something for me. It's literally an illustration of a knight protecting a troll from a damsel in distress. I would link it but she made the damsel a little curvy and I don't want to upset anyone. I feel like it would fit perfectly here though. It's just as weird to see people here bashing the game for no reason as it is to see people defending poor design choices for no reason. Perspective is a hell of a drug

The biggest problem is - Unless you're tossing praise at this game constantly, it'll always be considered "negative" which is why people continuously mock the OF or any other community that looks past the game's issues, or articles that state that XIV ARR/HW is the best MMO and is the perfect MMO to play if you're burnt out on other ones. If we're to talk of bias - ARR did absolutely nothing new and it barely even got the "standard" features right. Not to mention the architecture of the game is either ancient or lazily thrown together that they can barely do what they're doing as is and it's already on the absolutely basic level.

Despite people who love to mock you because of their experience differed from yours (because they only played a game till level 10 and quit as the old saying goes) the fact a very old MMO (XI) can handle certain basic features better and from a design standpoint is actually better than an MMO developed on a much more powerful engine SPECIFICALLY designed for it, there's a problem..but that would never bother people who takes anything thrown at them and smile. The ironic thing is, people continually stated that I'm an "SE apologist" because I never talked **** or berated everything SE does..it's funny how the tables turn.




This. My opinions aren't biased, they're honest. I praise things based on their DESIGN and if I enjoy it - but if the only opinions or feedback "that matters" is "nothing wrong here, don't like it leave" nothing will ever change and sooner or later..that's going to be a bad thing for this game in particular. It would be a different story if this game brought something new to the table..but the fact so many people accepted an MMO that barely meets the current MMO standard and find it "perfect"..why change anything?

Think about this for a second: Yoshida wants to keep job images, FFXI does as well. In FFXI I can glamour whatever the **** I want despite my job - in XIV? I can barely glamour anything if the levels and item levels mismatch let alone class of item. Every other MMO? With some exceptions I can glamour anything I want and have dedicated slots to it.

"PS3 limitations!"

FFXI has a proper gearset system despite the PS2 limitations.

That's why I remain "negative" because there's literally no reason XIV shouldn't be superior to XI and other MMOs in every single way given how creative SE can be and has been...and people who find that it is...hasn't really played other MMOs, let alone XI, for any real length of time. XIV is probably one of the more aesthetically pleasing MMOs..but it ends there.


I mean I can sit here and say:

"Yay Yoshida is the best director ever. I mean, he's nerfing overmelds and nerfing hybrid accessories so I only have to use vit as a tank now! Praise be Yoshi! There's absolutely NOTHING wrong with this, there's no downsides to nerfing crafting even more. Oh 3.2 will add stronger armors? Cool! Now I don't have to do end-game ever because I can buy crafted gear that's just as strong!...oh materia cost 8-12mil per and yoshi's words was materia is too expensive than intended so that's why he wanted to reevaulate the system and thus let you meld materia onto raid gear? PERFECT DECISION! EVERYTHING IS PERFECT! NOTHING IS WRONG!"

Seriously. This is why my tone is "negative" because I look at it realistically. Anyone's who's played MMOs before wants the path of least resistance if you make it possible.

Easy/Normal Mode can drop up to i210 but 180 is common - If there's something that shows it can drop i210 constantly be it a certain boss, guess what people won't do ever again?

Hard Mode.
Savage Alexander
Void Ark.

People may do it for a little while..but if gear is their goal..guess what they'll do? Easy/Normal mode..thus there's no point in doing something harder when you can get in and get out in 20 minutes and get the same reward. Think about why people want crystal tower to be revisited - people liked the design of the content for better or for worse (it's one of the few alliance based contents in the game) but think about why no one does them anymore: There's no reason to. The gear is obsolete and you can get far better far easier. If you join the game now, your first job to 50 grants you i90 gear and storyline grants you i100-110 iirc, thus Labyrinth and Syrcus has no reason to be ran and running it for glamour...check your queue times - despite glamour being the real end-game, it would still be no problem to run them if people truly do play content purely for glamor for example.

What if Thordan's Reign drop i200-205 weapons?

What if Sky Exploration drops i210 Aetherial weapons even on Easy/Normal?

What, realistically, would people do if gear is their end-goal? Your Greatsword from Singularity Ex has 102 Skillspeed and 75 Parry. Your 210 Greatsword has 85 Det and Random secondary stat - Same weapon damage and it comes in random glamour which this one happens to be the Balmung glamour...which greatsword would you go after if you personally care for properly gearing your character? Which would you rather do? Spend an hour or less with little to no mechanics to deal with..or spend 30 minutes or more with tons of mechanics that people will mess up continually for inferior rewards?

This is why I stay "negative" rather than praise every single thing, because if you gloss over the problems or say "it's only a problem to you"..that's how MMOs get bland and boring. The reason other MMOs fail or have massive relaunches or go F2P is because those communities aren't going to sugarcoat it or kiss the dev's asses - If there's a problem they'll be sure to express it. But with XIV? If it isn't 1.x you're not allowed to look at the game in any light other than praise or get met with attacks basically. After playing XI and DQX, you will wonder what happened with the dev team for ARR/HW. Any other MMO people would really question them if an expansion released that did absolutely nothing different like HW did.

GW2's expansion...if it was exactly like vanilla launch or 2 updates in how do you think people would have taken it compared to they are now? What if it didn't come with the awesome guild changes but instead..went backwards? Do you really think people would be as accepting as people in XIV community is? The game itself is fine..there's just far too few people who are honest about the game, especially as some people say, those who barely play it. I may get hate for it but I'm not wrong: The less you play this game the more you'll enjoy it because even Yoshi himself has said his main ideology for the game is to cater to newer players, even those new to the MMO genre and those who don't play as much and will take breaks. Its not designed for people who are playing the game actively and if someone can say "you're playing it wrong"...how can you play an MMORPG incorrectly?

Trust me, if I took everything at face value and only looked at games as a consumer, I would have nothing but praise because I wouldn't actually think about what I'm playing or care, I would just play. I wouldn't compare it to other MMOs I enjoy, I wouldn't compare it to their last 2 successful MMOs that's done more in many areas and I certainly wouldn't think: "Hey..this is Square Enix..they were so creative with other FF games where you have 2 parties going up separate towers but have to clear them at the same time..why don't they do it here? Why do they contiunally do as little as possible?"

Main rebuttal: "MMOs and single player games aren't the same."

That is true - However, if XIV is as successful as people believe, it shouldn't be a problem if say..Spire Towers, a kind of throwback to FFV is a 2 party dungeon (8 total people) where you have to progress your sides of the tower and sync up with the other party in order to actually kill the last boss, say both bosses will stay at 1% until both are sync'd at 1% (the mechanics already exists in guildhest, so there's no excuse not to get as creative with the dungeons)...there's just so much more they can do.

"But their dev cycle is tight!"

Stop wasting time on stuff like Lord of Verminion and pump life into the content far more people will do. No one can realistically say "only a small part of the community cares for the game's content"..or else Gold Saucer would be packed even after it's limelight was lifted. Having side distractions is fun but...if you were to show someone who plays MMOs XIV, do you realistically think they'd join for Lord of Verminion..or they'd join because they'd want to say...fight iconic summons? Go through dungeons? You know..RPG stuff? Not everyone is the same but..shrugging off the fact there's content design problems helps no one, that's why it doesn't bother me that people are all for SE ignoring end-game and adding loot pinatas, but there's still quite a lot of people who play MMOs for the end-game and will and saying "this isn't that game"..is silly. Final Fantasy games are ALL about the end-game.

So my tone will always "negative" about everything when I know they can do better and not question some changes that not even Blizzard would do to their MMO because it makes no sense whatsoever. People may hate to admit it, but the fact XI has their content setup properly means XIV should to - I should be able to go Alexander's entrence and have 3-4+ options for the raid tier I want to do, like every other MMO, including XI these days.



Edited, Oct 26th 2015 8:09am by Theonehio

But.... I was looking forward to Lord of Verminion....

SE tried something similar in XI with Pankration and it flopped because it was still all menu and text based and the "battles" were boring to look at. It lacked the cuteness of Pokemon and had a boring narrative to it to boot.

Lord of Verminion already looks a dozen times more interesting, because: 1. Minions are cute. Pokemon is a success because the pocket monsters are adorable. 2. It's a team building based activity, much like how Triple Triad was a deck building based activity. (I still need to farm my Ifrit card sometime.) I have all the deck slots in my TT menu filled with decks built for specific rules, like a Plus deck. (Plus my custom ********** deck" - SE actually let me name it profanity - that I use to deliberately lose to help a friend who is trying to earn Fenrir.)

Will Lord of Verminion succeed or will it go the way of Pankration? I don't know yet. But don't dismiss it as something nobody is interested in, just because you personally are not interested in it.

As for why people join, our airship master Ikaru Tenkaze was absolutely not interested in XIV until his room mate picked it up and he learned there was crafting.

Stop putting words in my mouth by implying that I'm saying you should be positive about everything.

That's BS, and you know it.

Nobody here is positive about everything. I've personally criticized the game's lack of social infrastructure, the lack of large-scale FC content (which hopefully is getting a fix soon) and various other things.

You are being intentionally negative for no logical reason that you've managed to explain. You seem to be blaming your negativity on the fact that SE isn't making the game like it made FFXI, or something to that effect, but THIS. IS. NOT. FFXI. It's a very different and significantly younger game that was made to appeal to a completely different audience. My point from before still stands... the DNA of this game isn't going to change. If this game upsets you so much that you're this negative, then you really should just walk away from it.

Seriously, based on your forum posts, I can't imagine how you play this game (I think you're still playing) and manage to have any fun at all. I imagine you playing and just being angry all the time. Do you actually have fun when (and if) you play? And if so, what makes this game enjoyable amid this ocean of terrible things that you always complain about?

Seriously, I'd love to know.

Thayos, you're not a fan. What you just described to me would be the same 'outsider' you referenced in your previous post. You sound like someone who couldn't care less about football... you're just that guy who roots for the team if you happen to see a game they're playing in solely because you went to the school. Fans actually give a ****.


Ok, so he admits to being honest. So do I. What is your point here?


Tone down the drama a bit Thayos. No one is that sensitive about XIV. I generally only post here in threads about upcoming changes, feedback on recent changes or threads about issues with PC building or troubleshooting. I mostly just stay on topic in one of the majority of threads already here that discuss things people don't like about the game.

This thread is coming from someone who doesn't enjoy raiding. It's about changes that are coming to the game that will allow them to experience endgame without having to raid. Is it wrong to discuss why these changes don't actually address what is keeping this person from enjoying raiding? Does it make sense that the coming changes don't actually address the root of the problem?

I don't fault Yoshi for turning XIV into a watered-down FF-flavored WoW not trying to execute his own personal vision. What concerns me is that he doesn't seem to realize that now that he's got feet under himself, he can pivot and start to gain some recognition for something other than being that guy who did an alright job copying what came before him actually directing the game into something unique.

That is a really good post. Those that see only roses on a game are not good for it either. There are problems in all games and if developers dont find out what people like and dont like then a game will never be fixed or improved on and the only people who like your game will end up being fanboys..

Message boards and facebook pages are not your average player. They are made up mostly of fanboys or hardcore player.

Myself have always been able to see things with more of a open mind when it comes to games. I see negative and positive. Reminds me of politics and people choose one side over the other. Kind of like republicans can justify anything a republican does as right and even if a democrat does the same thing it is wrong for them and vise versa. We all know neither party can be 100 percent right or wrong and the real answer is usually somewhere in the middle.

Problem with open minded people is they are always getting shot down for being open minded.

I myself have been pretty negative on end game combat because it has been pretty much all the same. I wasn't initially and I still like some aspects of it.

I loved crafting though because it didn't suffer from allot was wrong with combat. Crafting aint perfect either though and needs some fixing.

I loved the crafting though but now I have turned a little negative on it because RNG needs to go away. I hated crafting in FFXI because it was all RNG. Crafting needs to be more skill and less RNG based.. There is nothing more frustrating than having an expensive recipe at 98 percent and it fails to HQ that is bull. They need to do away with this hq thing or just have it HQ at a certain level like everything over 85 percent automatically HQ's and rng for lower than 85. I like the new scripts method too, expand on it..

Also it stink when you craft two exact things and one you hit 100 percent on hq and the next is 28 percent because of fails or not hitting tricks. That is too much RNG when it makes that much of a difference.



What this game has is huge potential.. someone needs to run with it.

Edited, Oct 26th 2015 3:57pm by Nashred

Edited, Oct 26th 2015 4:02pm by Nashred

Yes they do all the time. Here and on every forum and probably every game. There are those who seem to feel it is their right to defend this game no matter what or how bad a problem is. Again it reminds me of politics.

There are people on both sides, too negative and too positive.

Edited, Oct 26th 2015 4:05pm by Nashred

Totally, Nashred, I get that. I have zero problems with people being negative or expressing how things could be done better.

That said, there are certain people here who only seem to say negative things. They even struggle to be impartial without letting negativity creep in. Some of these people (like Filth) haven't even played in months, which makes said criticism highly questionable. Others, like Hio, are frequent players -- which baffles me, because how could you stand to play a game that causes such negative reactions?

It has reached a point that it's hard to take what Filth and Hio say seriously, because so much of what they write comes from this highly negative viewpoint that doesn't at all reflect the game's actual playerbase.

Filth gets a little bit of a pass because he doesn't actually play the game. And I always say, if a game really makes you feel this negative, then you shouldn't play it -- and he doesn't. So good for him.

But Hio, though... not sure what keeps him subscribed. I honestly don't know. But being negative about every single thing just for the sake of being negative isn't constructive in any way, shape or form.

Some people just like being mad about things.


Edited, Oct 26th 2015 1:21pm by Thayos

Nothing has changed here since like... 2010? It's as if time has frozen in this place. Everytime I come here Hio is spouting his FFXI nonsense, Filth is arguing how his by now hilarious negativity is somehow justified and Thayos tries to take the middle road yet keeps finding himself on the fanboy side time and time again.

I'll be sure to write this exact same post again in 2020 and it'll still be true.

Edited, Oct 26th 2015 8:53pm by Hyanmen

This. Even when Yoshi himself admits problems and faults with the game, and if anyone else dares point them out..it's just that person being negative, despite the same words coming from the guy in charge of the current project. When you start to argue against the guy running the show...there's more problems than "negativity."

Yoshi himself, said 3.0 will take risks and try some things that may or may not work. People were hyped about it and the only people who loved HW without ANY complaints whatsoever, didn't deal with 2 years of the same cycle or never cared about the cycle in the first place and always glanced over the problems.

So..where's those risks? Systems that may or may not work? If he was talking about gating crafting...that definitely didn't work, but I PROMISE you there's more than enough people who will defend that system to the death even though anyone who seriously crafted detested it. The funny thing is though, people's main excuse tend to be: "Don't rush"..it's nearly impossible to rush in this game as every system worth a damn has a lockout on it..of a full week. Even gathering gates you on nodes that are worth the most to your progression..then now you have scrips to worry about too. So I never understood the "smell the roses" argument.

As for "putting words in posts"..I never once admitted to being "negative", being honest is "negative" in the eyes of anyone who praises everything. This is why certain, let's call them 'Happy people" attacks the fact that I like FFXI, because it's all they have to hold onto since I don't state the game is terrible, because XI isn't a terrible game - it has systems XIV should have at minimum and far superior. Yet they can barely get some basic systems to work with fear that it'll crash the servers.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/3cswmu/formatted_live_letter_q_a/

For example, I promise if yoshi never said this, anyone who mentions any of the problems like:



Or:



If someone were to comment on this being a terrible situation that they can't fix it, you get called negative. You say they need to get new servers or redo systems as there's CLEARLY foundation issues - Negative. There's no winning unless you praise the game. Even the recent Q&A reaffirms there's problems they need to look at..but goddess forbid you mention them!

See how they can work on Primal minions? Yet not the egi glamour system because of the excuse of "animations and design will take time?" You have a team dedicated to working on insignificant items (minions) but can't dedicate them to creating the framework for the egi glamour system for efficiency sake? This is why, once again it will always seem I'm "negative" because stuff people highly request get swept under the rug with odd excuses then they do something that takes just as much work.

Even taking lord of Verminion into consideration the only people who are touching that system are the "side quest" team. Things take money and time, but you really have to think.