Heavensward to launch June 23 (early acces June 19)Follow

The Rank 5-1 and 5-2 missions were added about three months later, in August 2002. The game launched in May; they'd added in the resolution to Shadowlord within two major patches. But I still contend that the story up to Rank 5, ending with getting your sweet sweet airship pass, was a pretty solid Chapter 1.

1.0 didn't launch with a very complete story line either, if I remember right. Not that many people bothered to try to complete it at first.

Correct, the legacy of Tanaka continued throughout the initial release of 1.0, and into 1.23 when the plot began to take shape under Yoshida's direction (This is where you start to see the actual plot become eppisodic.)

But again, you're proving my point for me, Catwho. Even on release, FFXI did not come with a complete story, a trend that continued into its expansions. FFXIV 1.0 made the same mistake, that became rectified with a Realm Reborn, so there's no comparing the two.

A Realm Reborn wasn't a chapter one, it was a story in and of itself that contained multiple chapters with an arching story that was resolved by the end of its patch.

Let's make the direct comparison of the Perceived Villian introduced at the corresponding level 15 quests at each juncture.

In FFXI At level 15 an Ahriman revealed that there were aims of the return of the Shadow Lord, and by then you had heard about him. As you said, Rank 5-1 and 5-2 missions were not a part of the initial release of the game. Agian, the main story was halted before its Finale.

In FFXIV, the level 15 introduction to the player was done on the first Airhship ride it was provided. Gaias vas Belthasar, the Black Wolf. By the end of ARR, before any major patches, his role as an antagonist was resolved. Even if we were to switch gears and claim it was Lahabrea as the antagonist, even he suffers a marked defeat by the end of ARR.

If FFXIV followed FFXI's standards, the players would have been stopped cold for three months before operation Archon.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There's no denying that gaining an Airhsip pass for the first time felt like an achievement, like a chapter was closed. That's because back then travel was egregious and the climb up to 50 was incredibly slow. Airship meant Time Saved in a lot of ways. However I can't objectively agree that anything in the 5-2 ending amounted in a Resolution. It actually felt more like a defeat. You lost a good protagonist and symbol of peace with little to no fight for it. I honestly can't even remember off-hand if there was a Burning Circle even involved in that mission.

ARR did not leave its players hanging that way. Even the subsequent patches felt like there was conflict resolved even though there was a continuation of a more grand scheme. I never felt such a way with FFXI's expansions, and removing myself from the picture, I still can't agree that any Expansion or Vanilla portion of FFXI were in any way complete on release.

ARR felt that way, and it was by intention. I would see them continue that path and by all indications, they are. I'll admit it if I'm wrong. But I'm confident in my speculation of this.


Edited, Mar 25th 2015 6:55pm by Hyrist

Even if we were to assume that rank 5 was a complete chapter, it doesn't change that nothing came of it after rank 6 was added for the longest time. The strength of FFXIV lies in not only that the base game and expansions bringing self-contained stories but also that the story keeps going in the patches. FFXI could ever only accomplish one (vanilla) or the other (expansions) in it's lifetime.

I also heavily detest the notion that it'd a simple matter of apples and oranges when one game relies so much on non-content and the other goes above and beyond to implement new content constantly as a means for progression. Quest driven is value driven because you're not just making up colibri monster models, placing them in the bhaflau thickets and letting the players grind that "content" for years on end for progress. The efforts are on a completely another level. FFXI shouldn't get a free pass in this regard either.

Edited, Mar 26th 2015 7:46am by Hyanmen

Everything that FFXIV has added concurrently FFXI has had to add taking turns. Adding sidequests does not make up for the lack of main story. Nothing stopped SE from adding RotZ missions earlier than at level 75 but the fact too much value for the customer might cost them too much.

The games are completely and fundamentally different in scope no matter how we spin the quantity or quality of the content.

Edited, Mar 26th 2015 1:39pm by Hyanmen

Yet, that's a red herring. Side quests aren't main quests and they really don't amount to much of an argument, when you again, wound up with every Job in the game at the time having their own full set of Job Quest on the get-go with FFXIV. They even started far earlier.

I can agree to disagree with you Catwho on the similarities of FFXI's and FFXIV's story structure. To myself and others there is a tangible differences that has us appreciating the latter. I have done what I can to describe the differences and why I appreciate the effort put into FFXIV's story structure. At this point, having discussed the matter, I think its a difference in the story oversight provided by the differing producers. There is a far cleaner presentation done here in FFXIV in my view. Even the incomplete stories, like displayed in Hildebrand, Crystal Tower and Binding Coils of Bahamut, had a sense of finality to their individual episodes, even though they teased continuity.

I hope in explaining the differences that I've also described why I feel Yoshida continues this trend he's created. We'll see with the release in Heavensward.
________________________________

I do want to clarify that a difference in speculative opinion is simply just that, it dosen't implicate a change of opinion either way on any person, unless they are adapting a behavioral trend I disagree with. Either one of us could be wrong, or both of us, and that's part of the fun of discussing more speculative points of the game.

I do so hope you are enjoying the story as it is presented, however. For me it's been one of the strongest points this game has. Never have I looked at a point in the game, even its tongue and cheek filler quests, and went 'oh this story sucks'. Few other RPGs or even Companies in general have had that level of success with me, and no other company's MMO has garnered this level of investment. It's part of what makes the subscription worthwhile.



Edited, Mar 26th 2015 7:20pm by Hyrist

Oh I'm absolutely sure there won't be a complete resolution, there wasn't in ARR.

If I'm going on full story speculation mode, this is what I predict:

1. We are fighting multiple, but not ALL of the Dragon Lords.

2. Our Characters Discover the Ascians have been at play, manipulating both sides into their most successful efforts to cause strife in the game.

3. Our solution by the end of Heavensward is a partial one, the Dragonsong War does not end, but a Des Ex Machina that would cause far, far much more carnage than what has been caused will be prevented from use, and some small headway into making peace with at least a fraction of Dragonkind. Ascian influence over Ishgard will be dispelled.

4. Ascians themselves, however, will remain, in spite being dealt yet another short-term defeat. Some Dragon Lords will also still remain continuing the Dragonsong War and the conflict between Dragons and the other Eorzean races. This will enable a branching storyline much in the same manner of "Chronicles of a New Era, which will inevitably lead us to the next expansion. (I'm guessing Ala Mhigo which will feature the Empire in force and give us a fuller taste of their overall might.)

Of course these predictions are speculative and malleable. I'm sure there's a curve-ball in there somewhere (Will we see more of the Imperial Airship fleet? I donno!) but overall I expect the Overaching conflicts, such as the shadow war against the Ascians, and the Dragonsong War will both ultimately remain - the first due to the over-aching story and its function as a tie that binds all other stories together, the second due to field elements within the existing over-world that will give permanence to the war between Dragons and Ishgard.

So yes, you will be called for future Conflicts related to the overall themes of Heavensward. That's inevitable. That does not mean you won't get a complete story out of the deal though. It just means the story is about something other than the broad spectrum conflict we're already aware of.

If we're going down this path.

1. FFXIV 1.0 wasn't even complete. Let's not ignore this.
2. ARR's content is less than XIV 1.x or XI's launch content. You have to remember that XIV ARR pulled from 3 years worth of content and foundation improvements and even from XI in terms of assets.

So if we're comparing ARR to the others, compare PURELY ARR content, ignore the XIV 1.x content and XI assets. Since that's kind of impossible given the circumstances of the game, the only reason it's an "unfair comparison" on either end is because ARR is "more complete" due to taking something incomplete and completing it.

There's no denying this. No way to skip around it. XI's base was more complete than 1.0's and ARR's on its own merits. ARR's base is more complete due to taking 1.0's incomplete nature and finishing it.

(Some of the retcons are even lesser quality than the original too, ironically.)



Instead, it was in terms of CONTENT. So in a way, replace "being stuck with story (let's be real, most gamers care for gameplay than the overall storyline in the long run)" with "being stuck on content progression only for the next patch to actually REGRESS in progression for the playerbase. You seem extremely focused on the story, which is understandable..but when it comes to content and gameplay, that actually comes to a complete halt unless you do absolutely NOTHING everytime you're on you'll always have something to do - But if you parse the Lodestone, ignoring Coil completion (which is around 5% NA/EU and 10% JP), most people are up to date on every patch.

And a popular saying around here was; "Leveling isn't content."



Instead, very little feels like an accomplishment in comparison. Got my airpass in XIV? Cool..I've yet to use it after the story forced me to. lol. Beating down Bahamut? Feels good because I actually played 1.x, so it felt like an ACTUAL chapter was closed. (Sort of.) Beat the extreme primals? Ok. You're basically trivializing achievements and accomplishments in XI because "it saved time!" or "things took a long time!" but essentially praising XIV for handing you things as accomplishments. Isn't, technically, being handed everything less of an accomplishment in comparison?



Only in terms of progression (which yes people care for, I know you enjoy RP and all that but most of the playerbase likes actually progressing.) Especially if we're comparing only the initial stages of ARR with XI. In XI we still progressed even with horizontal, in XIV, we regressed or got to a standstill due to the format of Coil > CT > Coil > CT. You went from i90 > i80...I'm not a genius at math, but 80 is less than 90.

"But it's to gear alts"

That's usually....what side quests are for. As we know the only reason they didn't obsolete Mythology and first Coil is because people were playing "redo" as it's a relaunch and no one even knew that Coil was in the game until the JP started doing it AND they switched up release (CT was supposed to be first.)

So let's be real, comparing XIV ARR and XI is perfectly ok and acceptable if it's the "first chapter", both games did things their own way. As said, with ARR, you got stonewalled in terms of content, but not story.

This is a fantastic point.

ARR is, for the most part, a new game with some recycled resources from the original client. New graphics engine, new interface, new maps, quest systems, new battle system, addition of duty finder, free companies, etc. etc. etc. But the storyline is very much like an expansion story. It references the storyline that Yoshi-P wrapped up in 1.x, but ARR's story arc is very much like an expansion or sequel to the storyline of the original game.

Of course, if you were new to FFXIV at ARR's launch, then you'd probably never know this... but that's how strongly ARR's story stands on its own.

*queue Wayne and Garth making Flashback noises*




Is it too early to gloat? I didn't say anything cause I thought it was too early to gloat.

Ok, more seriously:
Typically I keep quiet over these things but given how much resistance I had on this idea I really just want to hammer home that I do my bookwork, I look through situations objectively, and I don't do it by any means to look down on others. I just want to give the best speculation I can. So please, keep that in mind when I make a prediction. It's not meant to be contrary - it's meant as the best speculation I can muster.

I'd be more interested in a data analysis of how many people quit FFXIV:ARR who are hooked on F2P games.

Yeah, I highly doubt WoW is a factor. Like you, I've never played WoW, and I know several people who quit ARR to go back to WoW.

I think the F2P gamers are more likely to pick up and leave. A lot of those folks held out hope that ARR would "fail" and go F2P... and what can I say? I'm thrilled that Yoshi-P disappointed them.