How will SE address hunts in this coming maintenance?Follow

Really? I don't agree... the eye test tells me there were far more people involved in hunt groups than there were people who simply refused to participate.

And this huge "buff" isn't really a buff... it's more of a miraged cap, but a cap done in such a way that it makes part of the system incredibly easy, but the other part even more frenzied. A lot of people weren't turned off by hunting groups; they were turned off by the negativity surrounding pulls. They also didn't enjoy riding up to A ranks to find them killed by a relatively small number of people -- that caused tons of frustration. That negativity may be intensified by this fix, which solves nothing for those players and doesn't help the game's community.

I agree the majority of players complaining about hunts are the people who will benefit from this "fix," but this ends up being a nerf to the entire system.

On the bright side, players who were too turned off by the negativity to participate in hunts can now get some seals without any drama... but the fact remains, their success is virtually capped. Really, this is a nerf. Rather than do something to truly fix the problem, SE left the biggest problem intact (too much traffic on A ranks, which won't go away, but will only be less organized).

The players' way of dealing with this (by forming hunt groups and linkshells with shared resources and cooperation) was much better than SE's way of dealing with this (trivializing B ranks for most players, making A & S rank hunting less organized and more competitive -- and probably more nasty when early pulls happen).

Edited, Aug 19th 2014 8:59am by Thayos

Ah, thanks for the info that this wasn't a buff. I was under the impression that now that I'm suddenly getting 10 times more seals by doing the activities I've done before, which actually finally allows me to make meaningful progress in the system for the first time, would be a huge buff for me and people like me.

At first I actually felt that this fix was either a buff or nerf depending on the player's playstyle, and that the consequences wouldn't be so black-and-white, but now I finally grasp that the hunting community has the right to declare for everyone out there that the fix is a nerf, regardless of whether people like me benefit from it immensely or not.

Let me just act as the rate down substitute for speaking out for the people whose opinion doesn't matter.

You told us how this fix is a nerf, even when it is a buff for many people. If their opinion matters, you wouldn't have ignored these people while trying to force your (the hunting community's) stance down their throats.

My potential was very low before, it is actually higher now than it was. I am actually killing rank B's. With that said I couldn't care less about this nerfed potential you speak of. Not like it wouldn't have been nerfed by implementing a weekly cap, too.

(Which also had its objectors)

Edited, Aug 19th 2014 5:24pm by Hyanmen

It is a buff for many people, but it's a direct nerf for more people, and a nerf of potential for everyone. You will never be able to farm as many seals as I did in the same amount of time that I did... that's why you've been nerfed, even though you may be getting more seals than you were previously.



I honestly don't get why people cling to this train of thought.

The creation of hunting groups didn't happen because a handful of people banded together and said, "how can we best **** solo players?"

Rather, players just started forming linkshells to look for hunt NMs because it was clearly the best way to deal with how SE implemented the system. This happened virtually simultaneously across all servers. From there, different hunt groups formed their own unique systems/rules/variations, but there was never this singular "horde" that people like you keep talking about. Some hunt groups played a little bit looser, allowing people who were known early pullers. Other hunt groups (like mine) preferred members who were as courteous and respectful as possible. Overall, though, the majority of players accepted this approach TOGETHER because it was simply the best way to do things.

Rather than accuse hunt groups of forcing things down your throat, why not just accept the fact that you didn't want to participate in hunt groups, and that the way you wanted to play was wildly less efficient? There's nothing wrong with that, by the way... but there IS something wrong with denying the fact that hunt groups were made from a collection of individuals, parties and linkshells who simply were trying to cooperate, have as much fun as possible and be as efficient as possible within the constructs SE provided.

It's not a matter of "stance." It was always a matter of efficiency by helping each other vs. inefficiency by going at it alone. You may have preferred the latter, but you were vastly outnumbered... and really, you can't blame people for not flocking to your side on that.



I still believe a weekly cap would have done far more to solve the biggest problem with hunts, which is the negativity surrounding early pulls from A and S ranks. The system is overburdened... when mobs are pulled early, they die too fast, and scores of players are left feeling frustrated. That's when all the nasty shouts happen. A weekly cap would have reduced demand across the entire system, which is what we needed most. Instead, SE just cordoned off the B ranks to soloers, making the competition for A and S ranks even more fierce (which I believe will cause even more trolling and negativity). We'll see. Time will tell if I'm right on that.

Edited, Aug 19th 2014 10:36am by Thayos

Again, the ZAM censor makes me sound like a drunken sailor. I did not say what you think I did here.

Really, though, my point can be summarized as this:

Give 100 MMORPG gamers these two choices, and see which is more popular:
- Form parties, cooperate and maximize rewards
- Play individually, don't cooperate and gain minimal rewards

This isn't a matter of people trying to shove things down anyone's throats. It's a matter of the majority of people simply wanting what's most efficient, and a small number of people being upset that more people don't choose to prefer inefficiency.

Edited, Aug 19th 2014 10:55am by Thayos

The new system makes it possible for you to get more seals easier by just playing solo. However, it's most certainly a nerf when considering how many seals/hour you're able to get. This isn't my opinion; it's math. No amount of arguing makes this statement less true.

Yes, a weekly seals cap would have been a nerf, too... but at least it may have solved the problem that was affecting the largest number of people, including people who were choosing to sit on the sidelines because of all the negativity from early pulls. I don't know how much more clearly I can say this, so I'll be blunt: This isn't about me, and this isn't about you. This is about our server-wide community. I'm surprised that SE seemed to ignore the issue that's actually causing harm to the community while catering to the minority of people who ONLY care about soloing.

And me being arrogant? I'm not being arrogant.. I'm looking at numbers. I'm not thinking about ME. I already got all the seals I needed... I don't care that I've been nerfed. This doesn't affect me.

I'm thinking of our server. For anyone already hunting, this is a nerf. For people who were just waiting for the negativity to end, this is a nerf. This is only a buff for players who only wanted to solo.. and if they ever want to do more than solo, then they're nerfed, too.

Frankly, I'm just surprised that SE swung the nerf bat while completely whiffing on solving the biggest problem.



Because it does.

Until content progression makes hunts far less desirable -- or unless SE does something to massively change the way A and S-rank hunts work -- soloing is wildly less efficient than hunting in groups. Seriously, this isn't even debatable.

Why do you assume that you know something that the vast majority of players don't? Isn't it simpler to think that maybe you're wrong on this? I'm only asking this next question for the sake of playing devil's advocate... but aren't you the one who is being a bit arrogant here?

Edited, Aug 19th 2014 11:04am by Thayos

Edited, Aug 19th 2014 11:07am by Thayos

Edited, Aug 19th 2014 11:09am by Thayos

Overall this looks to be a positive change. Buffing hunt board rewards was definitely needed. Rewarding one or two allied seals per mark was a complete joke before. Now it seems at least somewhat worth trying out for those interested. The B rank change I'm a little mixed about. On one hand, players should definitely be able to complete their weekly hunt now without the need to deal with the previously grossly unbalanced system. On the other hand, these are going to be no more than once a week content for any given player, and then useless after that. This seems like a sort of tacked on solution and it won't turn things completely on its head and suddenly make hunts amazing and engaging gameplay, but it should allow players who want to participate but haven't because of drama, radar users, or whatever other issues they have with hunts a chance to actually play. I think I'd lean toward this being a positive change as well.

I still think a very nice solution would have been to just fine tune the rewards in this game to feel more appropriate for the task, so that players could actually have fun and feel rewarded at the same time. Then this compromise wouldn't have been necessary. But if hunts absolutely must stand head and shoulders above most other content in terms of rewards, then this is still a pretty decent band-aid fix.

Seriously. They aren't even announced that much NOW in my Hunt LS, only if people see some on their way to an A or S.

If you can single out the person who made this rule, then I'll concede the argument to you.

Until then, you're wrong.

And I suggest you read up on the concept of critical mass.

EDIT: Also, nobody is saying that all soloing needs to be inefficient forever. I'm not upset that soloers can have more fun now. Why would I possibly want to interfere with someone else's gameplay? All I'm miffed about is SE swung the nerf bat and still didn't solve the most important, widespread problem with the hunt system, which is the negativity from A and S ranks.

Edited, Aug 19th 2014 1:17pm by Thayos

I'm on the fence on what this does for those farming A and S ranks, I do feel those in particular need further adjustments. However, I am happy with the increase and the change to B ranks, and will actually start taking part in hunts now thanks to this.

So I'm going to call this a net positive. Sorry, but I disagree with you on the amount of Solo Players who were dejected by the whole ordeal, Thayos. While I understand the pain you feel as far as progress impeding for more regular hunts, I do feel this is a positive step for the majority of the players in the game.

I still feel more needs to be done, however.

I rarely felt any pain in doing regular hunts. I'm an "older" gamer, and tend to be pretty chill about most things. There were only a few nights when I basically tapped out due to rampant early pulls. Nights like those, there was really no point in trying.

And I'll certainly benefit from these changes, in some ways. I already got all the seals I need, but I could always have more. Doing my dailies/weekly will give me a nice trickle of seals that will add up over time. You'll never hear me complaining about getting easy seals.

My concerns are mainly on the A&S ranks, and how these changes might affect those hunts. And, like I said, I really am surprised that the potential for gaining seals was nerfed so hard. At the same time, though, perhaps the only people who would have been affected by that nerf are people like me who already got what we needed?

And Raylo, I'm sorry your hunt parties were so mindless! I had many mindless parties, too... not going to lie... but also had several that were quite fun and enjoyable. I got to know people on my server who I probably wouldn't have met otherwise.

Honestly, this disagreement still stems from the fact that we were opposed to how it should have functioned to begin with. While I agree that now the pressure on the larger, more substantiated hunts (A & S) which are still overpopulated.

I'm of the mind that this adjustment, plus hard cap, would really be a good way to address it at this point.

That would be you. In this thread. That wasn't so hard.

Using the critically flawed argument that just because people flock to a content a certain way at it's release, means any other way of doing the content needs to stay inferior forever. When I asked why does soloing have to be inefficient, you answer that it has to be inefficient because... "it is". As if once something is decided it should not be changed by anyone. Really now, Thayos.



You like to tout that line, but in reality you have zero clue on how many people had a problem with the crap rewards from the daily/weekly hunts not letting them make any substantial progress, effectively excluding a massive amount of players from the content vs. the negativity on A and S ranks. All you have is your scientific Eye Test which kind of fails big time because you can't actually observe the people not taking part in the hunts, only those who do. That doesn't stop you from speaking for these people too, though, effectively invalidating their opinion by assuming that your problem with the system is bigger than theirs.