Your thought on Elite HuntsFollow

Modern day 'standard' MMORPGs since people normally complain about anything else unless it is in that design. I mean, yoshi reiterated how he won't add mechanics outside of instances because ....GASP! Someone that gets too close might.....they m..might....DIE.

THE HORROR, DYING IN THE OVERWORLD IS SUCH A BAD BAD TERRIBLE THING!

Seriously though, at this point it really should have been tied to the leve system, it's a last minute addition and all but this style of game really can't handle traditional mechanics, it's too rooted in the instance all the things mentality that the world and rewards reflect that.

I actually saw my first S rank today. (Been to a couple S mobs before, but wasn't able to see them)

But, as soon as enough people showed up to actually fight the thing, the mob and everyone besides me disappeared off my screen. Even though I had a party, still got nothing because I couldn't even get on the enmity list.

I have to admit I was shocked when I was unable to lock onto a S rank mark the other day. My PC has never had any trouble with any fights or conten ffxiv has but out this far. Odin and behemoth have nothing on these S ranks for targeting.

Filth, didn't I recently read that you haven't played XIV in quite awhile?

I'm a member of one of these big hunt linkshells, and trust me... we do not spread out over a zone like a grid.

Most of the time, multiple zones have open windows for A-ranked NMs (which are the NM ranks that hunting groups focus on). Each of the past two nights, there were lengthy periods of time when anywhere from five to nine zones were open simultaneously. In an eight-man party, you can either choose to try focusing on just a few of those zones (two or three players max per zone), but usually players spread out much more than that, to the point you may have just one party member scouting each zone.

Some linkshells may coordinate to have certain parties within the ls focus on certain zones, but mine does not... it would be almost logistically impossible to do something like that, given the fluid nature of hunts (people coming and going, people stumbling across B ranks, etc).

Anyway, the most successful hunt parties I've been in are the ones in which members actively scout and don't just go AFK. Gnu can vouch for me on this, but the difference between "wait by the crystal" parties and "let's all actively scout" parties are night-and-day.

If you do hunts the right way, then there is quite a bit of excitement in scouting a zone and hunting down your mark. There's also excitement in keeping an eye on the competition... keeping track of who is teleporting where, or whether a small group of competitors is simply scouting or getting the inside track on a fresh pop.

Also, as Gnu said, nothing beats actually discovering the mark yourself, getting that first call-out to your party and knowing your group will be rewarded with full credit.



I honestly don't think there's anything remotely casual about hunts, other than the fact that mobs aren't claimed by individuals or parties. But, as I said above, people who take a "casual" approach to hunting are going to get left in the dust every time.

The bigger problem, in my opinion, is that true endgame content continues to be locked out to anyone who doesn't have a full-time static. Remove those lockouts, and I think you'd be surprised by how many of these so-called "casual" players are actually just hardcore players with less time on their hands than they had 10 years ago.

Edited, Jul 24th 2014 1:26pm by Thayos

I agree that hunts were meant to be casual... but they're being flooded by hardcore players such as myself who have been walled off from the game's current endgame content.

SE really should do away with the "one completion per week" lockouts on coil. It's those lockouts, not difficulty, that's blocking out the masses from the hardcore content they want.

Imagine how awful progression in FFXI would have been if you could only go to sky once a week? Of if you could only do dynamis once instead of twice, and dynamis parties were limited to eight people? Or if you could only do a BCNM once per week? That would have been awful... and it's awful in XIV, too.

Remove that arbitrary lockout, and suddenly a lot more people are able to participate, and you'd already have people gearing up more naturally, and now there wouldn't be this total zerg of the hunt system. This is what happens though when you wall off thousands of hardcore players for months and suddenly toss them in a room with an endless supply of carrots.

Edited, Jul 24th 2014 3:14pm by Thayos

Having a reason to roam about is fun to me. The success rate of the parties where 8 people are actively searching is awesome. Getting full participation on nearly every A Rank, and every S rank so far. B's are hit or miss. The higher pop rate of B's do keep the activity flowing. Sands of Time = a pretty nifty carrot.

Some think this is fun and some don't. Some people enjoyed hunting for Atmas which had me scratching my head for months. THIS is fun?! Guess it's a perspective thing. Can't shoot people with your point-of-view gun.

And thus, varied content is the key. Which Patch 2.3 actually delivered.

Most of us are former FFXI players around here, including myself, so I can understand that there may be some confusion as to what qualifies as casual content. As a mostly casual player myself, allow me to put any doubts aside that any sort of time consuming grinding counts as "casual content."

Quite the opposite, grinding is pretty much the gateway to hardcore play as it rewards long play times with persistent, repetitive tasks which is precisely what purely casual players want to have absolutely nothing to do with. I'd go as far to say that ultimately, hardcore content is entirely based on grinding. Even if there are extremely challenging fights to tackle, like the Coil, that require a culmination of top gear and skills to win, only the truly hardcore will have the rewards derived from grinding that will allow them the best chance at winning and only they have the time to coordinate successful completions (which is yet another component casual players don't have the luxury of).

The relative ease of the grind grossly mischaracterizes whether it's casual or not. Players always optimize their grinds for maximum ease so it's not really the challenge that makes it difficult: it's the sheer amount of time and repetition required to make progress.

Content meant for casual players is denoted by significant rewards you can earn in a short amount of limited playtime.

So Duty Roulette is casual. You get a big daily reward of various currencies for completing relatively simple and quick Duty Finder content.
Running Brayflox HM a million times to collect even more Myth is not casual even though the dungeon is one of the Roulette dungeons. It's not the ease, but the repetitiveness for lower-than-Roulette rewards that makes the difference.

Syrcus Tower, with a major weekly reward, is mostly casual (though maybe if you're trying your luck at an Oil it's a bit less so). The armor drops let your make significant progress in a short playtime considering how long it would take to collect the soldiery for the equivalent rewards.
Hunting a million overworld NMs for Sands of Time, on the other hand, is definitely not casual. Sure, it's easier and more accessible than the Coil, but it's still not casual when you consider the sheer amount time and coordination needed to collect the rewards. Purely casual players just aren't going to bother with this activity.

I think there are people who do straddle a broad grey area between casual and hardcore whether by circumstance or by choice. When I was bedridden with an illness a few weeks back, I passed the days grinding an Atma relic for my white mage, something I normally wouldn't have the time or inclination to do but for the fact that I needed something simple to take my mind off my suffering. And some people who were once masters of Turn 5 only jump on twice a week these days because they're a lot more busy than they used to be. And other people are willing to put in extra play time to accomplish certain grinding goals but they aren't willing to go that far for everything. So I know there are people who would describe themselves as casual players and yet still get involved in grinding now and then.

But if we're just talking solely about the characteristics of casual play, grinding is definitely not on the menu.

There were some barriers in place (and still are). You couldn't access Levi EX or Mog EX without first defeating Garuda, Titan and Ifrit EX, but people cried and got that taken away. Problem there was that Levi and Mog Ex were 10x easier then those 3 extremes prior to them, so it should of almost been inverted. They seem to have a hell of time gauging what the community will have trouble with (which is why public test servers are so nice). Then you can't move onto second coil without defeating T5, problem again, as time went on people got carried (through that and EX primals). So then you step into PF assuming you're joining people who have legitimately won their fights only to find out they were carried through the whole process.

Of course, there's really no way around this, as fights get easier one less person isn't gonna make a lick of difference. So people are always going to get by when they shouldn't. Much of this is frustrating to me personally since I can't join a static with my shift work, I'm never off the same day more then one week at a time. So it's obviously not fair to 7 other people to bend around my schedule week after week. So I really feel they need to unlock coil to multiple runs but 1 item/week. Then of course, I'm being selfish and the game doesn't revolve around me. Only thing is, 90% of statics are constantly looking for new members cause it's a pain in the *** keeping 8 people together week after week. So I don't know what they need to do, but my guess is they'll just stay the course and keep going with this.

This fear that everyone will have everything maxed in a week is really one of those myths that just needs to go away. Will it apply to the no-lifers? Some, sure. It won't magically give the casual players, or at least those more time budgeted, everything instantly. On the other hand, I see people commonly posting enough that they hit the tome cap or finish their weekly coil and are then... bored. Not so much because there's nothing to do, but rather it's not worth doing for them because they can't get the most out of it. And I think that's a far, far greater risk to subs than the niche demographic who would quit because they got everything within the first month of a patch cycle.

It's not a myth. It's a mechanic that was carried into ARR from other games. It's to keep people from farming gear endlessly and burning through content that's supposed to have a lifespan of 'until the next update comes'. I'd be willing to wager any amount that if there were no lockouts, the tell spam you receive would increase exponentially with "Do you need [insert gear here] from [insert raid here]? $8.95 go to [insert RMT website here] and use [insert code here] for yada yada".

I completely agree that boredom is a big factor in why people un-sub or quit entirely, but ^ makes it so raid lockouts can't be removed until the content is obsoleted. This goes right back to the point that there isn't enough to do. The game needs more varied content. You can only have one current raid tier. This is why you always see people calling for events like BCNM, dynamis, salvage, nyzul, ect. ect.

Regardless of whether it takes you 3 hours, 3 days or 3 months to gear up, it's nice to have something to do inbetween so you don't burn out.


Are you really suggesting that raids cater to the size of your FC? I don't follow your logic. You want SE to make raids so that you can take your entire FC, no matter the size? You really want them to attempt to balance that? Just think about what you're asking for here. I hope it doesn't take you too long


Edited, Jul 25th 2014 9:00am by FilthMcNasty

Yes, they could move the entry lockout to a gear lockout but...



Seriha is suggesting that people don't want to participate because there is nothing to gain. If you are locked out of gear, then you're locked out of the reason you would have to be there in the first place. There are probably people who would just assist other players for the sake of helping, but many of them are the same people calling for more ways to obtain the gear they would be locked out of from raids...

Exactly.... This arbitrary lockout completely removes the option for people to reenter coil to help their in-game friends. SE could very easily limit people's gear attempts while still allowing them the right to reenter content.

As it stands, the lockouts really cripple FCs of all sizes by only allowing access to select groups. The biggest challenge in the game is simply finding people to do this content with you on a consistent basis. It's weird. No chance for a larger group to work through coil together, taking turns rotating people in and out to clear the content, which was how so many people advanced in XI.

SE just announced 12 people got banned and a bunch more suspended. We're guessing it's because of Hunts, but they didn't say.

Edit: Aaaaaaaaand NERF INCOMING!



Edited, Jul 25th 2014 12:05pm by Catwho