Endgame Post from a JP PlayerFollow

Shh, your "why you got banned from BG" is showing, but since someone more familiar with WoW did some talking, here:

Personally, I'm not a fan of WoW's aesthetics or its general lore, but it sounds to me like maaaaaaaybe they're about to try. I wish them luck and hope it's more than just lip service, as success will inevitably lead to trickle down into other games... err, ripping off, cloning, whatever you wanna call it.

Keep up the good work for the SE Defense Force, soldier. We're done, though.

I'm not banned from BG, what are you talking about?

Let's see how it works out for them, and whether WoW will be "better off" for it (or if the only thing changing is who gets to complain). Blizzard does like to switch up the status quo from time to time so that other people get their turn to be upset, with nothing actually changing for the better most of the time.



Oh yeah, now you're acting like a BG poster!

Edited, Jun 12th 2014 2:43pm by Hyanmen

Well Valk according to the cool kids on this board and Yoshi you must be doing it wrong because the echo makes it so easy it's on auto clear status lol

Yeah I've been clipped by dives for no reason too. In about 50 attempts I've never even cleared the all the snakes. So good times!

As long as people aren't dying all over the place and know their rotation the echo makes it very hard to hit rage timer and makes it so db don't insta kill you.

When I do t5 I take all the name plates off so i know when those green db dots show up. And help clear clutter for getting closer to the wall and shows who is standing too far away and keeps getting us hit.

You have a +15% buff on three additional DPS. You're going in with gear that's better in power than anything in Coil 1-5 itself.

At that point, if you're not killing the Dreadnaughts even if someone dies, that's major play issues/rotation issues on all of the remaining DPS. That Dreadnaught has around 8K health. That's barely 2 outdoor questing mobs for the highest level dailies and 3 of the lesser ones.

It has nothing to do with "being the cool kids". Twintania takes time to learn the fight, regardless of when you join that progression. Trying to pass off failing to meet certain checks with better gear *AND* a +15% damage buff that's always on you illustrates that you are doing something majorly wrong. If that offends you, and makes you pout, too damned bad -- your statement just makes you look like a crying child.

Is the fight difficult? For learning it absolutely. For getting past the small DPS checks on Conflags and Dreadnights? Not anymore. It's a fight that's more about personal attention and situational awareness (Divebombs, Twisters) and in 95%+ of all groups those are the hugest blocks people have to overcome. Turn 6 has just as many person checks and Turn 7 is *nothing* but personal awareness -- and it's why it's considered the hardest turn for most groups even with Turn 9 clearing.



Except that, there is a reason you're being clipped by Divebombs -- you're either too slow, moving towards the wrong spot/direction, or someone else is messing up. There is no "for no reason."

Assuming that the leader of my party is one of the *expletivedeleteds* we used to see forming the first T1 coil and titan hm groups screaming for relic+1 before 5% of the population had theirs. Most of those same people are worried about T9 now, not T5, so those of us who didnt jump on that elitist bandwagon are stuck playing with the new kids. Those are my bandmates now. New fun fact: Just because someone is ilvl 90+ in today's game does not make them a decent player.



My observation is that if one dps is dead, and one dps is targeted by the dread, the last two have a really tough time whittling down that 8k in the short amount of time it takes to get to the target. If at least 3 dps are on the dread it goes down in time.



I can run the thing in my sleep now. But alas, I am on Lamia, apparantly the most populated server, where there are maybe 50 people who know what they are doing and the rest are ultra casual. Im usually hesistant to blame others, but I may have to on this one.



Seems like my divebombs always target the guy with the crap connection who doesn't move fast enough to the ditch, so the green indicator hits him in the middle of our path, and we get hit as we are moving up. Everyone should be in that ditch asap when that second ring falls. Then you should run out of the ditch when you hear the sound, you do not run when you see the green circle (if you have lag... if not, running when you see the circle is fine). Twin will dive at the exact location where the green circle initially appeared about 2 seconds after it happens. So basically, don't move with the green circle, move away from where you saw the green circle initially and upon seeing it pop.

Remember that a second set of divebombs happens after the first set of snakes pop. Stay in the ditch, and get the two little ones to 50% health and target the big one primarily. Watch for the green circle and move as appropriate. After the three divebombs the second set of little snakes appears. At that point, the OT should grab the two new snakes and bring them to the snakes held by the MT (which should all convene at about center map). BLM or SMN should have LB3 ready at this point and blast the group. Two of the little snakes will immediately die, and a blm flare and a scatch each should take out the remaining two. Then gather near the dropped rings, taking down that last snake. When twin comes back in get in the ring and wait on aetheric profusion. The big snake should die before profusion, generally.

Then twister phase. A twister happens almost right off the bat. Everyone needs to spread out, and I hope that you focus targeted twintania right at the beginning, because if not, you need to now. The focus targeting allows you to more easily see the twister cast bar. When you see it start to cast, run a horseshoe pattern and do not cross your path or any other's path. Then the persistent green tornado appears that you should avoid. Slow / stun / kill the dreadknights and dps twin, avoiding tornados until the last phase begins. Some have drg or mnk lb twin during twister phase to shorten it.

But I don't have issues anymore with the size of the circle, or conflag markers, or anything of that sort. They really are sufficiently big.

I've been ready to beat the crap for a while now, I've gotten very close, just haven't found the right party. Someone always messes up, sadly.


Edited, Jun 12th 2014 3:08pm by Valkayree

If thief or ninja has sneak attack / trick attack I'm all over that.

I hate the numerous instant-kill mechanics in fights that make it nearly impossible to recover.

Yes, the Echo does allow more room for error, but the point of the matter is, one error = group wipe is a pretty poor mechanic for a fight that gates major content behind it to begin with.

Granted, having beaten Twin and seeing how it's like once everyone knows the system, it doe seem easy when you get to evade the catching mistakes that pretty much wipe the group. But even with the Echo, there's not much forgiveness or room for recovery that isn't reliant on the healer being able to raise your dead **** if you slip and get hit by something while keeping the tank alive.

I'd like to see mechanics that punish, not kill. For instance, if you get knocked into the wall you're stunned for 10 seconds rather than killed. Or get hit with a unclearable determination down debuff. Less of the 'ulp, you goofed, you're dead and the raid wipes because of you', more of the. "These mechanics are designed to harass you and make you struggle harder if you're not perfect'.

Um there is lots of room for error in t5, I can't remember the last time I beat it with no one dying. If a tank dies just raise him and tank swap, if healer dies just raise no biggie and if dps die really no big deal due to echo, you can recover from everything in t5. The issue is people claim to Know the fight when they really don't. That's why you see people getting hit with dive bombs then trying to run back into the pit where everybody else is instead of waiting for the next dive bomb to go off then go back into the pit. there is not one part of this fight that you can't recover from whether it's a bad Pull at the start a healer goes down a tank goes down or a DPS can't stop getting hit by twisters it's all recoverable if you know the fight and know how to play your job.

Unless the people you're with are absolutely PERFECT, there's no recovering from your tank and 2 healers dying due to people not sticking together for dive bombs for example, since sometimes she just decides:

"You know what, I want that tasty single tank running around."

If by room for error you mean a stray conflag or two blowing up..sure, a dps or two dying early on..sure but there's far too many instant kill mechanics in T5 compared to others in First Coil that...recovering takes something amazing...like recovering from a near wipe in Moogles in 1.0 by everyone miraculously having raise potions and the one person alive was able to kite every single moogle while people raised and sort of recovered to finish it off with 1 minute left.



People do this mostly because the leader of the raid USUALLY makes it LOUD AND CLEAR:

"Pack together in the pit for divebombs"

So you can't blame someone listening, especially when most usually leave out: "Oh and if you get hit, don't run back" because they naturally assume no one will get hit and if they do that they'll naturally know to kite along the wall or run to the other pit if they got knocked there.

Knowing the fight is no problem, execution can be screwed up because one or two tiny mistakes or your PC/PS3/PS4 deciding: "Divebomb icon? Silly little girl I don't need to show you the icon above your head!"

I'm... not getting into that debate.

'knowing the fight' is not nearly the same is having the execution dedicated to muscle memory and there are factors of composition you're not even considering in the slightest.

When you clear a fight on farm, it always seems easier than when you're first learning how to execute it properly. The people who scream 'that's easy, you should never mess up like that' just puts me in the most ill of moods.

Even our own group concedes that once we had the tactics down beyond simply knowing what it could do, but having the clear experience to feel how the fight behaved, that it felt easier once we had the method that worked for us down. But getting to that point? That was hell, and the fight was very unforgiving in that respect. Unnecessarily so for it being something supposedly made more accessible for more casual players.



Edited, Jun 13th 2014 5:53pm by Hyrist

... Remind me... when they come out with the appropriate emote, to roll a character on Ultros and /hug you.