Endgame Post from a JP PlayerFollow

Can I have a more specific example of what it is exactly you're referring to as 'skill based'? Like can you point to an example(already implemented in XIV or elsewhere, or even one you made up) that gets the idea across more clearly?

Personally I kinda see it all the same way. A boss either calls adds or initiates some sort of spell or ability that players have a certain amount of time to react to. This isn't just in XIV or even restricted to MMOs, but it's generally how the mechanics work. You use your own set of skills to avoid damage completely, mitigate some of the damage or heal through it. You either gather the adds, separate them or burn them down depending on what the encounter calls for.

I've used the example of Faction Champions, an encounter in WoW where you are dealt a handful of randomized job type bosses to deal with. They don't follow any attack pattern and they react almost as players would because it wasn't possible to hold aggro on a target. They would attack people and use spells and abilities almost at random. For that reason, the only encounters that I really consider skill based are those where your opponent is another player. I'm curious what sort of mechanic you would classify as skill based that doesn't rely mostly on reaction or prior knowledge.

The best part of FF11 was that it forced players to work together and build relationships over time in order to accomplish goals. Eventually content would open up to solo or highly specialized small groups. FF14 is a completely different beast. Most of the time, players don't say a word to each other. The game needs mechanics where people are forced to deal with situations where they need to problem solve and collaborate (Salvage, Abyssea, Dynamis, Nyzul Isle...).

That is a very succinct way to put it Thayos. Very meta.

I agree with pretty much everything written in your post, and I think the bolded part really emphasizes how a lot of players are feeling. Isolated. Between weekly lockouts, fairly strict role setups, and absolutely strict party size requirements, it can be a chore to even attempt to tackle the content with your friends before factoring in punishing mechanics that for some, can carry a steep learning curve.

There's just so many barriers needed to get past to enjoy the only real end game content that the game has to offer. First of all, do you have a strong enough connection and memory/reaction time/skills necessary to consistently get past mechanics where a slight error can not just hinder the rest of the group, but actually wipes the entire raid? Then you may as well forget about participating from the start.

But let's say you do have the ability to get past those punishing mechanics without much trouble. Assuming you were planning on playing this game with any friends, the next question would be whether they can as well. If they can't, you can forget about taking them in if you want to actually convince others to join you/take you in and have a shot at completing the content. Or maybe you're a large group of players who planned on taking on the game content together? 10, 12, maybe 14 players? If it's anything past 8, only a small core of players are going to be able to participate, and the rest get left out or must recruit on their own. Even if you do get two groups going, chances are you'll end up only playing with your own core group.

If you are someone who can complete the content with ease, can easily meet at scheduled times and you don't happen to know seven others who can all meet at the same time and consistently complete the content, you could join an FC/linkshell dedicated to taking on end game content, and filling groups with competent players to meet the correct role and party size requirements dictated by the content. And that is perfectly legitimate for some, and possibly the best way I can think of to truly dive into end game and make it work. But this sort of ends up leaving out all the players who already have friends they hoped to do content with and just feel like they can't because of one reason or another.

It's really unfortunate IMO, because I can remember the absolute ease in which I was able to recruit people for end game events in XI. For a game that was so "hardcore, masochistic" and whatever else people want to call it, many end game events were a breeze to invite your friends. I can't count how many times I heard someone say "Hey, my brother/friend/linkshell member/spouse/whatever wants to try this event, can they come with us?" to which I or another linkshell leader would respond "Sure, sounds good" It was really that simple. I didn't need to think "Wait...what job are they? Because we already have too many of these and can't afford to take another one" or "Hmm, looks like we're already at our party limit" or "Well we can give it a shot and see but hopefully they catch on quick so they won't wipe us the entire night."

Of course, there were also events that ended up being for close knit groups. For example, my nyzul group was only six close friends, and I regularly did BCNM with just a few people I knew (although I think it's worth mentioning that I got to know some of these people because of large scale events...). But they were only a few options among a large variety of activities that players could participate in, and didn't take away from the fact that those who did want to jump into end game but didn't yet know a group of people to run with could easily hop into a friend's static for dynamis, or later sea, limbus, ZNM, einherjar, even Abyssea (which, although I'm not the biggest fan of it for other reasons, was amazing for letting friends come together and do stuff)...and that's what this game is completely missing. It's got the heavily structured activities for a set number of people which are good for small cliques, somewhat similar to the role nyzul and some BCNM fights filled (only more unforgiving in most cases, IMO), but it has nothing beyond that. Nothing that opens up the game and makes it feel social, nothing that you can just take your friends to and start having fun right off the bat, and nothing that encourages veteran players and newer or more casual players to want to play with each other.


Edited, Jun 23rd 2014 5:22am by Susanoh

I will have to play devil's advocate on the idea that Yoshi P just "threw 1.23 away."

1.0 through 1.x was built on a bad engine. Period. It was laggy, it was crashy, it was not optimized in the slightest, it chewed up and spit out $2000 gaming machines for breakfast.

They did a remarkable job polishing the **** that was 1.x into a nice gemstone coprolite for 1.23. But a valuable polished piece of sh*t is still a piece of sh*t. I'm sure that once SE looked at the smoking dungheap of 1.0 and tried to figure out the best way to salvage it, they considered keeping the engine. But as they poked deeper into the smelly underbelly and discovered the fecal matter at the heart of the server code, it was clear it was a lost cause. Like dutiful little dung beetles they rolled up the **** and planted the seeds of something better.

2.0 wasn't a phoenix rising from the ashes, it was a flower garden rising from a heap of guano.

Edited, Jun 24th 2014 11:49pm by Catwho

I think the client side code could have been fine, but as you just said Crystal Tools was not made for MMOs, and the server is really the heart of the code for an MMO. Clients just interpret the data and add flashy graphics to it.