LIVE Letter (05/24/2014) Summary and ScreenshotsFollow

You overestimate the importance of this conversation if you want to 'leave things hanging' thinking I've to invest in something that amounts to a veild insult.

There's a point where you have to be realistic. I do like having a broad demographic in a game, but there's a point where you got to say. "This is enough." There's only so much man-hours you can throw at this thing before the subscription payment falls short of the funding needed for the amount of work to be done. So you do what you can. You push slowly and hedge your bets, making sure you don't totally alienate everyone you've managed to attract simply because you wanted to do something different, or appeal to a different group.





I fundamentally and passionately disagree.

The top-down mentality when it comes to what is deemed worthy of 'the best gear in the game' is toxic and needs to me mitigated if not fully weaned away from the genre in general. It means that 'Only this content is worthy of epic loot and the rest of you are losers' implied by game mechanics, when there should be alternative methods to obtaining equivalent loot.

Difficulty is described on a broad scale and to unilaterally measure every player by a specific skillset narrows the base TOO much.



There's a medium between these two extremes that needs to be met. There's a point where exclusivity and accessibility can both be met. Locking an entire gear tier into one form of content, was a deplorable choice, in my view, and I'm glad they're mitigating that. Yoshida went so far as to say while he does not which to make it easier to get the gear, he's increasing the methods possible to get that gear. That's a smart compromise, and exactly the type of gameplay enhancements I'm looking for in the game.

But there's a limit to how broadly you paint that brush with content at one time. The growth of that content, especially in breath of endgame, should develop slowly. In the meanwhile, seeming they did not have a secondary endgame method in the game, I remain steadfast in my stance that the same approach to endgame as per the 2.1 patch should have been maintained. It will be addressed with Crystal Tower for now, but the next tier of gear should have a secondary acquisition method upon release, and not be locked within Third Coil only.

Otherwise, I agree, they will burn out a lot of players. We have growing systems in place that can be utilized to provide difficult content on a broader scale than just Coil. IMO, next tier, Hunts should also have access to distributing highest tier. (Giving nod to the 5ilvl above that Coils final boss weapons have. That's acceptable.)

While I don't expect a huge breath of endgame out by this point. 2 methods of 'endgame' that result in equivalent gear is not too much to ask for.



Edited, May 28th 2014 7:41pm by Hyrist

Mind if we pick up this discussion in it's own thread? This is a pretty hefty and thought out stance that I've developed over years of playing MMOs and watching the growing overall fatigue of the genre happen and this isn't the appropriate place to really get into such things. It's a big enough topic to have its own offshoot on.

But in short? WoW's raid system has burnt out its own system and the signs of that strain has been showing in every game that's tried to duplicate the forumla.

Where as FFXI's lateral system had limited growth potential.

There is a solution in melding components of both of these systems that would be the best of both worlds, and, in my view, the healthiest system for the game.

More later, in a different thread.

How long is "forever?" I may not have played every MMO in existence so I can't speak for every game, but one thing I particularly liked about FFXI was that good equipment came from all over the place. Some of the best stuff in the game was crafted (many popular accessories, elemental staves). Some of the best stuff came from NMs of varying levels (moldavite earring, joyeuse), some came from trading currency from end game events (brutal earring, for example), some from completing storyline missions (suppanomimi), farming high level mobs in end game zones (weapon skill gorgets)...if I really got going I could probably think of plenty more. I didn't do every bit of content, and I didn't always have the very best of everything, but there was a lot of variety in there and depending on what you liked you could still get some top tier stuff even if there was some content you never touched.

Now if we compare to today's FFXIV, no matter what job I happen to play or what piece I want to upgrade, there is only one event that towers above everything else. Where do I get my best paladin weapon, or scholar weapon? Where are the best rings for any given job? Best earrings? Best body pieces? Best *anything*? The answer to every question is the same: coil. You either get equipment drops from coil, or you buy tome gear that you upgrade by getting drops from coil. Honestly, I'd expect an event like coil to carry some of the best loot in the game, but not every single piece for every single job. I'm not specifically against coil either (I actually enjoy it), I'd say the same thing if all of the best equipment in the game were crafted, or all of the best equipment in the game were bought with tomes, for example. I'll take a loot system that rewards players for taking part in lots of different forms of content over a loot system that funnels every player into the same single piece of content for every top tier piece of equipment in the game.

I'd say FFXIV was actually in a (slightly) better place than it is now back in 2.1 in terms of loot distribution. At that time, i70 melded accessories at least were strong contenders against the top tier i90 pieces if you wanted a more diverse spread of stats. i90+ weapons could be obtained through relic progression, extreme primals, or turn 5. i90 equipment could be obtained slowly and steadily (tomes) or through coil drops, or in many situations ideally a combination of the two. Was it a ton of different content? I wouldn't say so, but for a vertical progression game that hasn't even seen its first expansion, it was about as much variety in loot distribution as one might expect. With 2.2, we saw the only crafted items that were formerly considered to be competitive on any job (accessories) not even receive an update along with the rest of crafted gear, and everything from tome gear to extreme primals to relics which were all impressive in 2.1 are inferior to coil in 2.2. It's looking like 2.28 and 2.3 may add a bit more variety to the mix again, but 2.2 wasn't exactly stellar in terms of loot distribution unless you're the type that believes there should be one form of content to stand above all the others.

Edited, May 29th 2014 7:17am by Susanoh

You're right about the "hiring more people" argument... which is exactly what people were saying about server instability in the other thread. You said they should just fix it, but it's not something that they can do without more people, as is pretty apparent since it's been 9 months and many gamers still have issues. How is that any different than what Seriha is asking for? Yet somehow he/she is the villain?

You said it yourself, their dev team is second to none. So they should be able to put out multiple avenues of endgame content to try and please a broader audience. If they are trying their best to build such a game, then why is all the endgame content just an extension of what's already there? Where are these multiple avenues of endgame? Right now it's run DF Roulette/CT for tomes, run primals, then run Coil. All of the best gear and endgame content are a linear progression, and that certainly won't be changing any time soon with the release of more CT, more primals, and even more Coil on the horizon. Maybe, and hopefully, they will add more elements to endgame eventually, but as of yet they haven't really announced much other than the same stuff that's been around since launch. A good amount of people are ok with that, but they'd certainly reach a much bigger audience with a broader appeal. I think it's safe to say that a very large number of mmo gamers play to eventually reach endgame and participate there. So with more and varied progression options, you get more players. Isn't that the goal?

Didn't we agree to put that particular argument to rest already? We can go on if you'd like. I never disagreed about that particular aspect of the argument (that fixing the servers takes time). Which doesn't mean that you necessarily need to hire more people to get it done. That's an assumption you made up right here and now.

Putting out multiple avenues of endgame content is not a matter of dev team size. It is a matter of design philosophy that alienates as few people as possible. While all instances fall under the umbrella of a certain "theme", new elements are constantly introduced within them to create varied endgame scenarios. You can try to over-simplify something like the Coil, but within the raid there is a great number of mechanics and elements that make each encounter different. It is simply more efficient to have a set production pipeline that can pump out similar content "pieces" but with different mechanics and designs.

There was an agreement? Huh, kinda seemed like I kept asking to end the discussion since it was pointless and you kept pushing it on and insulting me.

You're right, you didn't disagree with that part of the argument, you just ignored it completely. Which is even worse. Regardless, my point was only to make the correlation that you are accusing Seriha of the exact same thing you expected in that thread, regardless of how you want to twist it. There's no assumption there, that's what's happened. The "fixing servers takes time" argument was invalidated the second we talked about content that's currently being pushed out or has already been pushed out and has issues due to server infrastructure (Titan Ex is the perfect example). Without an immediate fix, that content doesn't get the changes that will benefit all those with server lag, and the only way to get a quick fix is to hire more people that can focus on the servers.

I'm not oversimplifying Coil. It is similar to what something like Limbus or Dynamis was in FFXI. A section of endgame that was one avenue of the plethora of endgame options available. Just because it's more "efficient" to make it all linear doesn't mean that is what's best or what will garner the most attention and users.

Maybe they'll add more distinct avenues of endgame content in XIV. I sincerely hope they do. But nothing to this point has me convinced that's the path they are taking. I just want that to change because that's what I'd like in an mmo. Is that selfish? Maybe, but I know I'm not alone in that regard... not by a longshot.


Edited, May 29th 2014 12:45pm by BartelX

Woohoo, I'm the bad guy~

Anyway, my approach to the dev team is that content design should very much be modular if it isn't already. You don't have the art guys working on the boss mechanics, and vice versa. We can have the Open World Team, the Dungeon Team, the PvP Team, the Housing Team, the Equipment Design Team, and so on, with Yoshi and a competent group overseeing all that to guarantee consistency, balance, and quality. If it's too "armchair" of me to hope that the game code really isn't such a spaghetti *********** that this isn't possible in 2014, then forgive me. Coincidentally, I feel this angle far more optimistic than cynical of me.

What we do know is that the revamp had them working with over 200 individuals prior to ARR launch. Is that still the case now? I don't believe so. Might they also be working on expansion stuff behind the scenes? Perhaps, but there's a part of me that feels it incredibly risky to forsake the short-term for something we won't be seeing for probably a year or so. It may be an MMO's goal to retain people in the long term, but that doesn't happen if you don't win people in the short term. And whether my haters care to admit it or not, more subs means more money for SE. Coincidentally, happy customers means happier word of mouth. Which leads to more subs...

Overall, I like to keep my finger on the pulse of games I played in the past and enjoyed well enough. I watch for issues I see others convey, for praises garnered by updates, and to basically gauge what devs have and haven't learned with their time and money. Do I consider myself the only voice one must listen to in matters such as this? Hell no. However, you will very rarely see me say something is impossible if the devs are willing. That's the kicker. They have to want it, too. But I challenge some to look around, to cast aside their (dis)likes of the current XIV endgame and see what others are saying. I won't contaminate those potential observations with my own, at least not in this post, but you will see things. So, go on, visit the OF, the BG sub-section, or whatever other big communities XIV has going for it these days.

So, before some try to jump into lumping me into the preludes tier, realize I don't want the game to die or simply suffer because it's existing. I want it to be better for everyone. Yeah, that includes me, too. Oh no, how self-serving of me~

While I'd be more interested to know how much of that number lies in codey bits, I suspect we'll never get a specific answer.

Odds are the code team is less than 50 people out of 700. No point in wasting coders on paperwork or help scripts. I think there were about twenty in the 1.0 credits.

The hardcore programmers, the gritty gritty numbers people, are just a small part of any given project team. The team I'm on at work right now has a project manager in charge, her analyst assistant (me), a business analyst who assists the department head of the project we're working on (real estate stuff), a UI guy since it's a website, a technical architect who works with the PM to herd the cats, two internal developers, and two external developers. So half the project team is non-coders (I'm the only real hybrid of the group), and this is for a project that doesn't involve any pretty graphics, which would be a whole 'nother team, nor does it involve any scripts/writers or battle systems. All those folks would not actually be programmers.

There's something on here that I want to kind of revist, that is a question that lingers in my mind?

What ever happend to FC's claiming Primals for their own use?

This sort of content I am still looking for, even if I am more satisfied than some of the other outspoken players roaming the communities.

I do life an eyebrow to the 'that's it?' reaction every time it is given. Again, I feel that often that reaction is the result of unrealistic expecations. We've got an expansion in the works, who knows what's a part of it? Meanwhile, we've gotten a lot of additonal systems.

Now, if you're saying "Hey, we want more systems relevant to endgame!" I can agree. I do too. That dosen't disqualify the content they are releasing as actual content and things to do, it just dosen't address a raising concern about a linear endgame.

And it should be addressed. 2.2 was a painful patch to a whole lot of people, and the cry for a broader endgame was quite loud. I'd like to see what they do further with these Hunts. They did go so far as to involve the Relic Weapons in them, maybe this is good first step towards a wider endgame. However, I think it's going to take a little more leaning on the developers on behalf of its active playbase to achieve that.

Just, keep the feedback appropriate. Less "There's nothing to do." More "Hey, endgames feeling too narrow."


As far as asking Square Enix to break the status quo? Um... I'd say theyr'e still a touch gunshy from 1.0's attempt at such things, but I hope FFXIV does grow into its own.

Seriha, you said you didn't renew your subscription in December, does that mean you haven't played the past five months?

Naw, they can still include it without watering down lore. It's just going to be *** expensive. Here's why:

1. Tempered beastmen summon their primal by basically collecting a crap ton of crystals.
2. Non-tempered beastman like their primal, but know that if they summon them they're going to turn into mindless slaves, so don't bother. But they know how to do it.
3. Your character is immune to tempering. This is a known fact.

So the beastman tribes might be willing to tell the secret to summoning to a non-beastman that they REALLY trust (you're at max level in the dailies) under the assumption that if YOU summon it, the primal might be controllable. (And if it goes out of control you can always kill it.)

How do you summon them? Crystals!

You can store crystals in your company chest. Why would they include that option, aside from general sharing? Why crystals specifically? Why call out special slots?

Hypothesis: Because your Free Company is going to have to get 9999 shards of the appropriate type (mixed and matched possibly with clusters and crystals) to summon the primal. I believe they said the plan was that only one FC can access one primal each week, and after the week is over they lose the ability. You are going to pay dearly for that. On our server, a shard ranges from 50 gil to a hundred. 9999 shards are gonna cost you a million gil for Ramuh. (And much more as the price goes up due to demand.)

Edited, May 29th 2014 4:16pm by Catwho

I really enjoyed behest, as well as caravan missions.

What's puzzling is both of those 1.x systems would totally work in ARR, and they could even be intertwined with the FATE system pretty easily. Basically, they would be FATEs with a limited number of spots (I believe it was 15 in 1.x) that would happen every 15 or 30 minutes. They'd be substantially more difficult than normal FATEs and require a bit of teamwork... would be a cool way to farm for gil, tomes, exp, etc.

I've said this a lot, but it's also worth remembering this game isn't even a year old yet... and we have quite a bit to do for a game that's so young, especially at endgame.

I think we can pretty much agree that a single component to endgame isn't optimal. A variety of endgame methods gives the player the ultimate gameplay bonus - choice. The more choices a player has, even when it's hard or slow to create, ultimately the more fun they have moving forward, and the more people will stick around for the long haul.

I'm patiently waiting for E3 and the next half of this preview. Of course by patiently I mean chomping at the bit.