Valkayree wrote:
HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
Do not read the following if you haven't watched the T5 cutscene:
That is some pretty exclusive spoiler data right there.
I felt drawn in and I read it anyway.
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Do not read the following if you haven't watched the T5 cutscene:
That is some pretty exclusive spoiler data right there.
I felt drawn in and I read it anyway.
Having never played version 1, was the whole damn game just a bunch of corridors with little rooms every now and then? I was watching that video, and sure the cat girl looked decent enough, but but everything around her was flat and uninteresting, and jammed into little rooms.
Turin wrote:
Having never played version 1, was the whole damn game just a bunch of corridors with little rooms every now and then? I was watching that video, and sure the cat girl looked decent enough, but but everything around her was flat and uninteresting, and jammed into little rooms.
It depended on where you went, some of the world was absolutely gigantic. Check this video out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt7Tc9gbTpk
Skip to about 7:35 and you can see the player look around quite far into the distance and then bring up his map at about 7:50. Notice the two bodies of water around where he is with his map zoomed in? Now take a look at the full map. http://www.ffxivinfo.com/images/maps/ffxiv-maps-coerthas.jpg Those two bodies of water are in the upper left, an extremely tiny fraction of the entire map.
Granted, not everyone was a fan of 1.0's setting, it had its faults and I'm sure some would be quick to point them out, but the world being too small or enclosed was definitely not one of them.
Quote:
Granted, not everyone was a fan of 1.0's setting, it had its faults and I'm sure some would be quick to point them out, but the world being too small or enclosed was definitely not one of them.
Yeah, 1.x's world was definitely expansive, certainly larger than ARR's Eorzea.
However, it was also kind of boring. One part of Thanalan looked like all the rest of Thanalan. One corridor of the Black Shroud looked like all the rest of the Black Shroud. Much of the world was beautiful in screenshots. However, everything was so "samey" that you had this feeling of playing most of the game in the same three zones.
Imagine playing FFXI, but you didn't leave West Sarutabaruta until hitting level 60 or so. That's what 1.x felt like.
In ARR, the zones are much smaller, but there are more of them, and each zone is way more unique. So while walking from end to end of 1.x's Eorzea took longer, I feel that I cover more ground when traversing zones in ARR.
For what it's worth, I was a fan of 1.x. Played from launch to close... but the game obviously had flaws. Later in 1.x's life cycle, the devs added different music to different parts of the zones, which helped a little with adding the feeling of identity as you traveled around.
Edited, Mar 9th 2014 11:29pm by Thayos
Thayos Redblade
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It's bizarre that the first version of the game was released the way it was.
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/1053318/
The game was pushed out to inflate quarterly profits and launch before a WoW expansion, if I remember correctly. Much of the game's coding was outsourced to China, and different parts of the game (like the graphics engine, the UI, etc) seemed to be developed with little regard for the game itself.
Poor leadership, poor execution. Some good concepts got absolutely buried in the wreckage.
Yoshi-P's 1.x was infinitely better by the time the game shut down.
Poor leadership, poor execution. Some good concepts got absolutely buried in the wreckage.
Yoshi-P's 1.x was infinitely better by the time the game shut down.
Thayos Redblade
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Thayos wrote:
Quote:
Granted, not everyone was a fan of 1.0's setting, it had its faults and I'm sure some would be quick to point them out, but the world being too small or enclosed was definitely not one of them.
Yeah, 1.x's world was definitely expansive, certainly larger than ARR's Eorzea.
However, it was also kind of boring. One part of Thanalan looked like all the rest of Thanalan. One corridor of the Black Shroud looked like all the rest of the Black Shroud. Much of the world was beautiful in screenshots. However, everything was so "samey" that you had this feeling of playing most of the game in the same three zones.
Imagine playing FFXI, but you didn't leave West Sarutabaruta until hitting level 60 or so. That's what 1.x felt like.
I would agree to an extent. Many 1.0 areas looked similar for the amount of terrain covered. Although I don't think it would be fair to exclude all of the dungeon like areas in 1.0's world when talking about its terrain. Nanawa and Copperbell Mines, Mun Tuy Cellars, Tam Tara, Cass. Hollow, and Mistbeard Cove have all either been instanced or just removed from the game completely. Some of these mini-zones would probably even pass for a full zone in ARR.
Since we're using FFXI for comparison, Cass. Hollow for example, was to Bloodshore what Ordelle's Caves were to La Theine, or Gusgen Mines to Konschtat Highlands, Fei'Yin to Beaucedine, etc. A darker underground area to compliment a more open overworld zone, that you could travel to seamlessly in the open world.
I wouldn't say there's a clear winner between the two worlds personally. I know which I prefer, and understand that I'm probably in the minority but even disregarding my own views I'm not sure I could say ARR is objectively better when it's fairly small in scale and with not a single open world dungeon to speak of. I'd call it a wash, myself, if anything.
Susanoh wrote:
I wouldn't say there's a clear winner between the two worlds personally. I know which I prefer, and understand that I'm probably in the minority but even disregarding my own views I'm not sure I could say ARR is objectively better when it's fairly small in scale and with not a single open world dungeon to speak of. I'd call it a wash, myself, if anything.
U'ghamaro Mines? Sahagin Spawning Grounds? In fact, any beastman stronghold?
Catwho wrote:
HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
Thayos wrote:
I agree, higher texture resolution is better than lower texture resolution, but higher texture resolution does not make a graphics engine superior.
What is your working definition for superior in this context?
Specifically in the case of the 1.x engine versus the 2.0 engine: The 1.x engine was capable of higher texture resolution. However, the graphical horsepower needed to experience that resolution AND make the game, you know, playable, was beyond the budget of the vast majority of the playerbase. My Radeon 5760 could play 1.x on the lowest graphics settings and with the game stuck in a smaller window (which was also forced to 16:9 perspective even at the smaller window size for some damn reason.) That same card was able to play the 2.0 alpha at full screen with mid level graphics.
So while the 1.x engine had higher texture resolution, it was not optimized for the typical graphics cards people had in their gaming PCs. The 2.0 was better optimized, and is thus a superior engine to 1.0.
A few other things - the 1.x engine had a bad juddering effect, pronounced especially to me as a Lalafell, in which the character and NPC names would "bounce" above the graphics as you ran. This is because they kept the names in the same position but bounced the camera view up and down. Happened in both first person perspective and third person perspective. I had to turn names off to avoid getting seasick. It was really jarring and I'm SO damn glad they smoothed it out considerably for 2.0.
Yeah this is what I have a feeling Thayos meant when he made the comment. Superiority via higher resolution is, indeed, superior if you are going for video quality and video quality alone without considering processing power. Alienating your playerbase with high grahpic demands is a bad thing.
Just wanted to make sure!
Hyanmen wrote:
Susanoh wrote:
I wouldn't say there's a clear winner between the two worlds personally. I know which I prefer, and understand that I'm probably in the minority but even disregarding my own views I'm not sure I could say ARR is objectively better when it's fairly small in scale and with not a single open world dungeon to speak of. I'd call it a wash, myself, if anything.
U'ghamaro Mines? Sahagin Spawning Grounds? In fact, any beastman stronghold?
Hmm....this is cutting it close. I would normally say a dungeon is not something you can ride your chocobo through, ignoring more than 75% of everything in there. I would also say the dungeon should have a reason to spend time there.
Some counterpoints I can think of: 11 allowed you to bypass most of the dungeons by using invisible/sneak. Some people also spirit bond in these areas (I guess?) Not as popular as you may think, though. And the relic quests do take place there (but briefly so).
Edited, Mar 10th 2014 6:00am by HitomeOfBismarck
HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
Hyanmen wrote:
Susanoh wrote:
I wouldn't say there's a clear winner between the two worlds personally. I know which I prefer, and understand that I'm probably in the minority but even disregarding my own views I'm not sure I could say ARR is objectively better when it's fairly small in scale and with not a single open world dungeon to speak of. I'd call it a wash, myself, if anything.
U'ghamaro Mines? Sahagin Spawning Grounds? In fact, any beastman stronghold?
Hmm....this is cutting it close. I would normally say a dungeon is not something you can ride your chocobo through, ignoring more than 75% of everything in there. I would also say the dungeon should have a reason to spend time there.
Some counterpoints I can think of: 11 allowed you to bypass most of the dungeons by using invisible/sneak. Some people also spirit bond in these areas (I guess?) Not as popular as you may think, though. And the relic quests do take place there (but briefly so).
Edited, Mar 10th 2014 6:00am by HitomeOfBismarck
Surely if we start claiming that a very specific definition of a dungeon is the "correct" one, we can make the argument that ARR has no "open world dungeons". I'm just not sure if all of us have such a narrow definition for an open world dungeon. Certainly I do not. You could also say that "a dungeon" must be underground but even then many would beg to differ. I don't think that the FFXI's iteration of "open world dungeon" can claim to be the only correct one, even if many here seem to think so.
Aside from spiritbonding and the relic quests, there's still more to do in those places. Hunting logs take you there, the daily quests content is created exclusively for the open world dungeons and the monsters are so high level that people can level their chocobo there as well. Let's not assume that there is nothing to do in these places because it's completely untrue.
Oh there's something to do in those places: just not something meaningful.
Not exactly hunting coffer keys or farming for spells to sell on the AH/MB (or other mats for that matter).
Not exactly hunting coffer keys or farming for spells to sell on the AH/MB (or other mats for that matter).
HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
Oh there's something to do in those places: just not something meaningful.
Not exactly hunting coffer keys or farming for spells to sell on the AH/MB (or other mats for that matter).
Not exactly hunting coffer keys or farming for spells to sell on the AH/MB (or other mats for that matter).
How nice of you to dictate what is meaningful to everyone else. Not condescending and arrogant at all.
XI's definition of dungeon was not "underground" either. The maze-ey zone off Gustaberg (ugh, forgot its name) with the goblins was above ground, but was considered a dungeon. Brayflox's Longstop is aboveground in XIV and is an instanced dungeon.
Note that you can see places where additional dungeon areas will be put in in XIV. There is a cave a bit west of Bloodshore, near where the buffalo are, that is clearly going to be a zone connection some time in a future release. Right now the cave entrance is filled with rubble. That could very well be Cass. Hollow.
Note that you can see places where additional dungeon areas will be put in in XIV. There is a cave a bit west of Bloodshore, near where the buffalo are, that is clearly going to be a zone connection some time in a future release. Right now the cave entrance is filled with rubble. That could very well be Cass. Hollow.
I tend to agree that ARR doesn't really have open world dungeons like 1.x did, and that's something the game could benefit from. Give the quality of ARR's zones, I would love to see what kind of open world dungeon content they would make.
1.x's dungeons were just as redundant as its outdoor areas though, and you could also just run through whatever mobs you wanted to in many cases. Would be cool if the devs incorporated switches and such to compartimentalize dungeons so players couldn't just run through (assuming they bring back open world dungeons someday).
Edited, Mar 10th 2014 7:20am by Thayos
1.x's dungeons were just as redundant as its outdoor areas though, and you could also just run through whatever mobs you wanted to in many cases. Would be cool if the devs incorporated switches and such to compartimentalize dungeons so players couldn't just run through (assuming they bring back open world dungeons someday).
Edited, Mar 10th 2014 7:20am by Thayos
Thayos Redblade
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HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
Thayos wrote:
I agree, higher texture resolution is better than lower texture resolution, but higher texture resolution does not make a graphics engine superior.
What is your working definition for superior in this context?
I don't think he understands what he's arguing for. Flat out says that HQ is better, then denies that it's 'superior'...
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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
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cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
Catwho wrote:
XI's definition of dungeon was not "underground" either. The maze-ey zone off Gustaberg (ugh, forgot its name) with the goblins was above ground, but was considered a dungeon. Brayflox's Longstop is aboveground in XIV and is an instanced dungeon.
Note that you can see places where additional dungeon areas will be put in in XIV. There is a cave a bit west of Bloodshore, near where the buffalo are, that is clearly going to be a zone connection some time in a future release. Right now the cave entrance is filled with rubble. That could very well be Cass. Hollow.
Note that you can see places where additional dungeon areas will be put in in XIV. There is a cave a bit west of Bloodshore, near where the buffalo are, that is clearly going to be a zone connection some time in a future release. Right now the cave entrance is filled with rubble. That could very well be Cass. Hollow.
How could you forget the Dangruf Wadi! I actually farmed some stuff in there way back in the day.
Since my thread got so far off base I am going to give my input since I seem a little more middle of the road than some and can see both sides points.
First of all I never played gold saucer but it sounds like a lot of fun.. I am looking forward to something different in this game.
I also see nothing wrong with borrowing stuff from other games to a point. If something is good why not bring it too this game. I see nothing wrong with borrowing from WOW or FFXI they were both good games. I also see nothing wrong with borrowing for older FF games, again to a point.
Here is the problem, you still need to innovate and be your own game too. You need to bring something new to the table. I have tried to get people to play FFXIV and have heard some people say I hear the game is a WOW clone with FFXI characters and they don’t want to play because they hate WOW or other reasons.. But that is not good having the reputation as a clone period.
There is nothing wrong with borrowing from WOW but only to a extent. You are not going to beat WOW at their won game. You have to differentiate yourself.
Its like trying to beat wlamart at their own business plan. Too many companies have tried to be like walmart and failed. They have perfected the model and been doing it too long and are too large.
Another example is a game I used to play and compete in called Ghost recon. This was a slow paced strategic game. It also had decent sales but nothing like COD series. They tried to be like COD with the last release and it failed bad.
Same thing with FFXIV if it does not have something different people will go back too WOW or FFXi.. I think both sides are right. Nothing wrong with bring elements from other games into FFXIV but you also need a new experiences.
Edited, Mar 10th 2014 11:02am by Nashred
Edited, Mar 10th 2014 11:03am by Nashred
First of all I never played gold saucer but it sounds like a lot of fun.. I am looking forward to something different in this game.
I also see nothing wrong with borrowing stuff from other games to a point. If something is good why not bring it too this game. I see nothing wrong with borrowing from WOW or FFXI they were both good games. I also see nothing wrong with borrowing for older FF games, again to a point.
Here is the problem, you still need to innovate and be your own game too. You need to bring something new to the table. I have tried to get people to play FFXIV and have heard some people say I hear the game is a WOW clone with FFXI characters and they don’t want to play because they hate WOW or other reasons.. But that is not good having the reputation as a clone period.
There is nothing wrong with borrowing from WOW but only to a extent. You are not going to beat WOW at their won game. You have to differentiate yourself.
Its like trying to beat wlamart at their own business plan. Too many companies have tried to be like walmart and failed. They have perfected the model and been doing it too long and are too large.
Another example is a game I used to play and compete in called Ghost recon. This was a slow paced strategic game. It also had decent sales but nothing like COD series. They tried to be like COD with the last release and it failed bad.
Same thing with FFXIV if it does not have something different people will go back too WOW or FFXi.. I think both sides are right. Nothing wrong with bring elements from other games into FFXIV but you also need a new experiences.
Edited, Mar 10th 2014 11:02am by Nashred
Edited, Mar 10th 2014 11:03am by Nashred
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Quote:
I don't think he understands what he's arguing for. Flat out says that HQ is better, then denies that it's 'superior'...
That's funny. Catwho understood my point perfectly.
To make this as simple as possible: The Version 1.x graphics engine couldn't run the game properly on computers with the specs recommended by SE. Thus, the fact that the 1.x engine produced better texture resolution was absolutely pointless, because that added texture came at the rate of stutter/bouncing/FPS loss even on higher-end machines (above SE's recommended specs).
Meanwhile, ARR's graphics engine produces bright, crisp, stunning graphics with great lighting, "good enough" textures (they look great until you zoom way in, and even then, they still look fine)... while also being able to display more than a handful of characters on your screen without people fading in and out of existence... all with very little FPS loss, if any, for most PC users... AND the ability to downscale graphics (ps3 version says hi!) while optimizing for the newest platforms (ps4 version says hi!).
That's superior. It's not even close.
Filth, you get a pass for not understanding this though. You were one of the few people who actually had a machine awesome enough to overpower the technical sludge of 1.x.
Edited, Mar 10th 2014 9:14am by Thayos
Thayos Redblade
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Catwho wrote:
XI's definition of dungeon was not "underground" either. The maze-ey zone off Gustaberg (ugh, forgot its name) with the goblins was above ground, but was considered a dungeon. Brayflox's Longstop is aboveground in XIV and is an instanced dungeon.
Note that you can see places where additional dungeon areas will be put in in XIV. There is a cave a bit west of Bloodshore, near where the buffalo are, that is clearly going to be a zone connection some time in a future release. Right now the cave entrance is filled with rubble. That could very well be Cass. Hollow.
Note that you can see places where additional dungeon areas will be put in in XIV. There is a cave a bit west of Bloodshore, near where the buffalo are, that is clearly going to be a zone connection some time in a future release. Right now the cave entrance is filled with rubble. That could very well be Cass. Hollow.
Open world dungeon was pretty much dungeons where you can actually see and interact with other players while they are also progressing. Usually boss areas were the instanced part.
Also, Cass. Hollow is gone. It was merged with Shopshae and Mistbeard Cove (Previously locked off) to form Satasha.
The only thing I miss from 1.0 is the original Coerthas and its music.
Well that and the "weight" of the character movement.
----
Going very off topic now, 1.0 clearly had more con's than pros. You had/have people who hated 1.0 and wanted to improve it, liked 1.0+ and wanted to improve it, and those who wanted something else entirely.
People also wanted to rekindle that first FFXI feeling and 1.0 felt a bit closer to that than ARR does. The slower pace and more open world did that.
To be honest, at the time, I was against having quick teleports (At least to the levels they exist) in ARR because then we wouldn't be able to enjoy the scenery we do have.
But at this point, it is what it is and I feel that we'll see some cool areas in the expansion.
Coincidentally, the Zilart areas were my favorite in FFXI and that was obviously an expansion.
Well that and the "weight" of the character movement.
----
Going very off topic now, 1.0 clearly had more con's than pros. You had/have people who hated 1.0 and wanted to improve it, liked 1.0+ and wanted to improve it, and those who wanted something else entirely.
People also wanted to rekindle that first FFXI feeling and 1.0 felt a bit closer to that than ARR does. The slower pace and more open world did that.
To be honest, at the time, I was against having quick teleports (At least to the levels they exist) in ARR because then we wouldn't be able to enjoy the scenery we do have.
But at this point, it is what it is and I feel that we'll see some cool areas in the expansion.
Coincidentally, the Zilart areas were my favorite in FFXI and that was obviously an expansion.
Yeah, I wish they would restore character and Enemy weights too. That was something thy got rid of in 1.x to get rid of lag, because people were having trouble walking through invisible crowds of people that couldn't appear on their screens.
Thayos Redblade
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The silliest thing is, the only complaints i ever heard from 1.0 were about having to endlessly hit 1, 2, 3 over and over again.
Nothing was ever said about graphics. Nothing was ever said about how area's and things looked. Not about monsters, not even about most things in general revolving around combat. Just that people wanted to stop having to hit 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 6, 3, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1 etc.
Then they introduced Auto-Attack, made it take an eternity to even swing your weapon and basicly killed the game from there on :/
And now, when we're having to having to spam 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 1 etc again (which i was perfectly fine with), THAT is perfectly fine to everyone, but everything else is suddenly wrong with the game? I dont get it.
Nothing was ever said about graphics. Nothing was ever said about how area's and things looked. Not about monsters, not even about most things in general revolving around combat. Just that people wanted to stop having to hit 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 6, 3, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1 etc.
Then they introduced Auto-Attack, made it take an eternity to even swing your weapon and basicly killed the game from there on :/
And now, when we're having to having to spam 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 1 etc again (which i was perfectly fine with), THAT is perfectly fine to everyone, but everything else is suddenly wrong with the game? I dont get it.
[XI] Surivere of Valefor
[XIV] Sir Surian Bedivere of Behemoth
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/2401553/
[XIV] Sir Surian Bedivere of Behemoth
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/2401553/
Oh come on. Everyone complained about the endless zoning tunnels and the copy-pasta environments.
Right... And the horrid lag, the horrid UI, the lack of mail and delivery, the horrid market wards, etc...
I enjoyed my time in 1.x. For those of us willing to play through the pain, we got to experience a great storyline that no one else will ever experience. But damn, the game was broken... Hence why they had to shut it down and replace it.
I enjoyed my time in 1.x. For those of us willing to play through the pain, we got to experience a great storyline that no one else will ever experience. But damn, the game was broken... Hence why they had to shut it down and replace it.
Thayos Redblade
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Jormungandr
Hyperion
Hyanmen wrote:
How nice of you to dictate what is meaningful to everyone else. Not condescending and arrogant at all.
Actually, it was just a nice way to see how far up your panties would go.
Echoing the sentiments of the majority is just an added bonus, really.
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