FFXIV BardFollow

I understand what you're saying. You appreciate the thematic elements of the jobs, and the more "blended" they make jobs, the less opportunity they have to really explore the diversity available to them. e.g., a pseudo-bow/bard turns two potentially great and unique jobs into one. That's fine in theory, but sometimes the two jobs they mix aren't the ones you wanted. For example, I wanted a Mime in FFXI. Some people told me that BLU or PUP was the Mime--I already had my Mime. But it didn't have the thematic elements of a the Mime that I was looking for.

Some jobs can be, or need to be defined by this fusion of thematic elements. For example, a Black Mage, or Elementalist, in some games, would be broken down into mages of each element... water, fire, earth, etc. Some people love that--they want to specialize in a specific type of magic. But, when you combine all of these together with the character of the Black Mage, the result is something entirely different. Some people prefer this creation, while others wish they could part it out into something more suitable to their taste. The more you blend, the worse this phenomenon becomes. Class purity and definition are appreciated.

I think this way myself, actually, but I can tell you from experience that parting out these themes isn't always so easy when you're trying to obtain an optimal balance of coverage. It's not difficult to come up with 40 distinct classes, not even counting these thematic "special blends" like Dragoon, Red Mage, etc. that aren't as recognizable outside of the franchise. So if you know that you can't have that many, you have to resign yourself to some blending.

Personal anecdote: Edward is the only memorable Bard to me, and I always stuck him in the back row with a bow.

get where he is coming from.. It would be cool though to have a bard that somehow attacked with music and could buff with music etc.. Brings to mind Nikki from Chrono Cross! But honestly I like what they have done with bard already.. FFXI and FFXIV are obviously going to be different.. While I love party center FFXI, FFXIV has to give each character some type of soloing ability because of its reach for casual players. I LOVED FFXI bards though! They use to make my SAM do crazy DoT and ws damage. Good times good times ;)

I perhaps drew too much attention to the bow, but that was not really the point. You want a Bard that specializes primarily in music, because that's what defines a Bard, no? If you don't give it things that define a Bard, and instead give it things like ranged attacks which do not define a Bard, then it is less like a Bard. Seems simple to me.



Considering the origin of the classes was rooted in really generic use of terms, I'd probably start with Rogue -> Thief (or if you prefer, treasure hunter. *nyuk nyuk*). Then maybe Assassin-> Ninja.

As a career bard in FFXI, I can tell you that a puller bard had far more in common with Archer than you'd think

I equipped a Chakram (throwing tool) instead of an instrument, because it was quicker than singing a song to pull a monster and had no recast time, unlike a song. This was more or less required on pink birds, because of their Reflect ability. (Elegy suuuuuucks when it lands on you.) Once I had the monster in place, I'd sleep it, then go about singing buffs to the party. Rinse, repeat, until chain 300.

Today, bard is very much a "ranged buffer" - the ability Pianissimo allows you to toss a single target buff at long range, making it much safer to buff a party in a nasty battle. Bard has also always had positional requirements in XI, second perhaps only to THF in the amount of running around we have to do to get the right songs on each person. That translates well to a ranged attacker, who is constantly shuffling around to find the "sweet spot" for the highest damage.

I know a lot of people would likely frown on this idea, but here it goes anyway:

What if instead of having one progression path, it became a split path (one way or the other, not both). So, for example, you are playing Archer and hit level 25. You notice two unique quests offered at the guild. One offers a quest that will lead you to Bard and the other leads you towards Ranger. One lets you focus on party buffs/support, while the other lets you go all out DD.

This would allow people the ability to pick a path that best suits their playstyle and offer a little more diversity and specialization. Some other possible paths:

Marauder: warrior/dark knight
Cleric: White Mage/Geomancer
Thaumaturge: Black Mage/Time Mage
Gladiator: Paladin/Fencer

I am sure people can think up better combos, but I am sure you get the point. I think this would give each player a little more personality and get rid of everyone having the same jobs available all the time.

And to think I voted your first post up after reading it...Is this buyer's remorse I'm feeling currently?

They did a lot of these changes in the desperate throws of attempting to keep interest in their sorry excuse for a video game (at the time). I'm sure they wracked their brains attempting to find a way to turn Archer into and advanced ranged DD but they NEEDED a support role to make it feel anything remotely close to FFXI (desperate fan pandering that honestly wasn't that needed. IMO I liked the idea of new, unheard of class/job names). Thus, Archer > Bard was born. I don't like it, you don't like it, but that's what it is. The only thing we can do is hope that SE does something awesome with the combination that makes us get over this logical derp.



I personally don't like the addition of Magiteck armor. It could be implemented in a classy way, only being used for certain events (with powers) and by enemies. However the most likely result will be everyone and their mother eventually riding around on Magiteck-obos. I know this will be the end result because I know SE will go mount and pet crazy to catch that group of people that obsess over that stuff in WoW>

Edited, Mar 25th 2013 3:06pm by DamienSScott

While it is a good idea, I just have to avidly disagree. One of the biggest draws I had to FFXI and now FFXIV is the ability to have one character that can do everything. It is a rare occurrence in MMOs and I personally hate having to create new characters I might not like as much just to be another job I want to play.

Also, I feel like players feel quite a bit more attached to the game because of this. I don't think any amount of either/or job choice uniqueness would outweigh this powerful mechanic.

But again, I like the idea... just not for this particular game.

Also I've been thinking if they implemented an enemy skill/blue mage job then the starter class for it could be game hunter (like a better version of Luso the protagonist from ff-tactics grimoire of the rift.)

If you mean the Bard quests every 5 levels, I did them. I still wish the job was based around music instead of archery.

Edited, Mar 25th 2013 3:17pm by Killua125

Been a while since I played Dragon Age: Origins, but, if I am not mistaken, Leliana was a bard and she used a bow. Maybe SE is trying to go that route.

My personal opinion upon hearing about archers being made bards, I didn't like it. I personally haven't had a chance to play a bard, so I'll reserve my judgement until I try it. I will say this, not a fan of the AF shoes and pants that bards get.

ArcBard had to grow on me. I originally thought that they were totally going to make Archer useless in the damage department and have it like an FFXI Bard. Once I played around with it post patch 1.21 I was pretty satisfied with the direction they're taking it in.

XI's bard was designed around the bards of past FFs, which were helpless (nice way to put it, by the way). The difference is that you could forego putting a bard in your party in the console FFs, whereas XI's bard was a must because it had the best buffs in the game. Bards were rare for most of the game's life, and the birth of the term "princess bard" should give you a hint as to why making the job more attack-oriented to attract more people to it is not a bad thing.

Rolling ternary functions like buffs into existing roles of the trinity is not a bad thing, as the trinity classes benefit from the additional depth while ensuring groups have necessary buffs/debuffs/CC without adding yet another hurdle to forming a party in by way of "unpopular support jobs".

I wouldn't call it "generic", but instead "a step in the right direction".

PS: XIV's bard is taking more from the classic bard rather than the Edwardian bard. Not a bad thing.

Edited, Mar 25th 2013 8:23pm by Ruisu

What are these official forums you speak of whilst you write of FFXIV ARR concerns?