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FFXIV now with more WoW and Aion?Follow

#102 Jan 17 2013 at 12:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah fishing was a relaxation for me, usually I'd have a movie on as well in the other monitor and just hang out. I didn't see getting my Lu as a chore, only an accomplishment.
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#103 Jan 17 2013 at 12:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Wint wrote:
Kachi wrote:
Right, so at that rate it will only take you a little over a year of working towards that and not much else Smiley: lol

Timesinks frequently fail to deter players from setting goals as much as they deter them from actually achieving them. And any time your players set a goal that they have to give up on, the odds of them quitting altogether have risen significantly.

Carrots are supposed to keep horses running. Some games treat their carrots like they're made of gold, or as if they fear their horse won't want carrots anymore if they give them out more than once a week. Actually, carrots are cheap as **** and horses can't eat enough of them.

XI is one such game with lots of land to cover and a stingy rider.


I knew a Lu Shang, at optimal conditions, would still take me months. Ended up taking me years, but at the same time was at times the ONLY reason I was playing the game. Did what they wanted it to didn't it?


Drove away a thousand other players to keep your subscription? :P

KaneKitty wrote:
Kachi wrote:
Carrots are supposed to keep horses running. Some games treat their carrots like they're made of gold, or as if they fear their horse won't want carrots anymore if they give them out more than once a week. Actually, carrots are cheap as **** and horses can't eat enough of them.


Do you really think that there's no saturation point at which incremental gear upgrades become less appealing? For me, at least, I know that WoW did a great job at devaluing my motivation for gear; it felt as though there were about fifty armour sets from which to choose, and the ones that weren't palette-swaps gave the equivalent of AGI+346 instead of AGI+325; when questing, I had so many new, best pieces of equipment that I'd sometimes miss equipping one until I'd out-leveled it!

To continue the metaphor, I had a truckload of carrots dumped on top of me, and there came a point where I didn't clap my giddy little hands (hooves?) and cry, "Oh, boy! :D" every time I turned around and picked up another one from the pile.


I think what this argument misses is that the carrots we're talking about aren't consumable... they're replaceable. A carrot is used and thus has fulfilled its value; a piece of equipment is only valuable for as long as it maintains utility. This is why I've criticized WoW's extrinsic motivation system as recently as yesterday. It undermines the values of its own rewards. FFXI, on the other hand, actually relies heavily on horizontal progression (or once did), didn't need to belabor their value, and STILL treats their carrots like priceless heirlooms.

Rinsui wrote:
Which is to say: you guys are approaching the issue from the wrong angle.


I don't think it's the wrong angle, but it's not the only. Intrinsic motivation is integral to good game design, but so is effective use of extrinsic motivators.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#104 Jan 17 2013 at 5:12 PM Rating: Good
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Let's just agree that not feeding the horse any carrots at all can result in the horse giving the 'stick'.
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#105 Jan 17 2013 at 5:36 PM Rating: Good
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That was delightful Smiley: lol
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#106 Jan 18 2013 at 6:14 AM Rating: Decent
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Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
While a time-sink may seem like only an inconvenience to some, it can also play the vital role of elevating player investment and long-term retention. They should be done in moderation, not done away with.


I prefer activities that are fun enough to make me forget how much time I sunk into them.


So much this. Said it a thousand times by now, but... where is the issue in creating content that is fun enough that even after achieving your goals for gear, items or whatever else the 'reward' is, you keep going back? How many people do you know who finished Lu Shang and were depressed that they couldn't continue on or repeat the quest?


Edited, Jan 18th 2013 7:14am by FilthMcNasty
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cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#107 Jan 18 2013 at 7:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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Actually I kinda wanted to do it again on another char Smiley: blush
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"Choosy MMO's choose Wint." - Louiscool
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Guide to Setting Up Mumble on a Raspberry Pi
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