Do we have any reason to believe that 2.0 will succeed?Follow

Like I said, I don't think it's you. Missile tends to white knight every cause he can on these boards and you just happened to be in the way. You did quite well defending your own point of view and being that the premise of the thread is speculation on what 2.0 will bring, I agree to waiting and seeing what happens.

I was just pointing out that the last time we took the 'wait and see' approach it was between beta test and launch and it didn't work out too well.

If what they have given us so far is anything to go off, it will fail.
They made the game playable yes but so many mistakes & bad & stupid choices, forced drawn out content. i dont know where to start & im sure there not finished yet.

So many things they said we will look into that need fixing now that can be fixed now, that wont be fixed even in 2.0.
Latencey that lets content favour japanese players only. & i know what your thinking it's still do'able...... yes but its not F'N easy & its designed for japanese players on there servers when tested, not for the rest of us.
Nerf'ing the wrong areas at the wrong times.

well i found somewhere to start.... i could do pages & give examples but i'll stop here.

Edited, Jul 20th 2012 6:56am by prymortal69

Tends to white knight? If anyone cares to believe this, can he or she please peddle up posts in where it's obvious that I "white knight" the game? I do play FFXIV, but so far FFXIV has not been the game I was hoping fot two years ago. I cannot wait to see how 2.0 turns out.

That is how far my White Knighting will go.

But let's talk about the person whose main goal is to talk people out of playing FFXIV.

*mimics obvious defence to that* .."Ohhhh... thank you for thinking that I have this kind of influence on people *slowclap*"... No, you dumbass, I am not saying that you HAVE that kind of influence. I am saying that you are making one hell of an attempt.

Filth cannot post five sentences about SE or FFXIV in a row without being negative or sarcastic towards either one of them. Every single change SE makes or announces to make or every single solution or wish expressed by someone on this forum will be met by a Filth who will shoot the entire thing down. BY DEFINITION. It's his Pavlov reaction! Optimism will be countered by pessimism.

And he has been like that for more than a year. And all this while he has not even been playing the game anymore.

Someone has made it his gimmick, his role, his purpose on SE to be negative. And that's when I say: he is either seriously mentally SICK... or he is actually playing a game in here. Cause what he is doing has nothing to do with some healthy interest in the game. The only indication of him wanting FFXIV to succeed is him telling the reader this every now and then at the very end of one of his rants. That's like trying to murder someone and covering ot up by telling people that you really want the person tolead a succesful life. I feel sorry for the people who still buy that nonsense.

In earlier posts I already wrote down Filth's main strategy, but I'm more than happy to do it again, just hoping that people who read this will take notice, recognize it and understand what he is doing.

1. To start off, Filth is well informed. I'll give him that. He either does his homework or read a lot of material about the game industry... or both. Ad the guy can write. This helps him a lot playing his little game/acting in the way his illness forces him to act. He makes himself come over like a FFXIV/MMO/Game industry expert. And this is dangerous, cause potential players could easily believe his words and decide not to give the game a fair chance. Filth is very aware of this word-to-mouth effect - he mentions it often enough - but at the same time he fails to see that he is actually doing his best to enlarge its effect with his over-the-top, disproportional, vendetta-like critique and gloomy outlook. (Filth response would be: "But I just give people my honest opinion"...but I doubt that. When someone continues to gives his opinion on a game over and over again long after he stopped playing it then most probaby something else is going on.)

2. It is Filth's rule to never ignore any opportunity to bash either FFXIV or SE. NEVER. Doesn't matter if the remark is far fetched or not, he will make it. Period.

3. Numbers are there to be used to make a point of course (see point 4 btw). However, the numbers used by others and/or their source can always be subject to questioning, and if they cannot, then he will give the subject a spin in order to make SE/FFXIV look bad anyway. After all, he has to stick to his goal.

4. If numbers are not available - which is the case lots of times - Filth will make 'estimates', and here is the kicker: he will justify those estimates by telling you that they are more than fair towards SE or FFXIV. So he pulls figures out of his butt, but makes them more credible by making you believe that the stuff he came up with are numbers SE would actually be happy with. Wrapped up nonsense, but people buy it anyway.

5. Another rule: ALWAYS have the last word on something. Key word is WINNING a debate, and you only WIN by...

6. (just mentioned in this thread by a/my...sock account(?), but I will mention it one more) wearing the opponent out. Overwhelm the person with facts, long posts, sometimes posted minutes after one's reply and continue to do that till either he or she makes an error or posts something that isn't entirely correct (so he can go for the kill) or gives up because... a normal person does not have the time to do all the homework needed to unmask Filth as the bullsh*tter he is or the energy one needs to expose his way of reasoning and hidden agenda.

And of course it's not only me who sees Filth's behavior as completely ridiculous. Look at what has been written on ZAM so far. Plenty of people - also neutral and very critical ones - confronted Filth with his attitude and he keeps on writing that he wants the game to succeed. And nowadays he also claims that his predictions have come true. Which ones....? No clue. I'm not going to read through 1560 posts to see what Nostradamus McNasty has been predicting in the past. But whatever it was, I bet the majority has been predicting the very same thing (<-- this very sentence would be a line Filth would pick up and use to criticize SE/FFXIV once more... I know how he operates).

Anyway, a few weeks ago Filth told me he was going to ignore my posts. Cause this is Filth as well: I responsed to poster Ostia, so it is Filth who had to respond to my reply being the Mr. Wisecrack he tries to be sometimes, and then... when I reply to him all of a sudden it is me who is troling him. And why is that? Because he was most probably butthurt because poster Louiscool (I think) accused him of trolling two days earlier. Filth loves to dish out, but receiving... ouch! Not so.

He has a huge ego... just too bad that it is made of glass.

Filth, if you read this: I really respect for replying to someone's technical questions. Your answers seem to be spot on and very helpful. Other than that: if you would be a friend of mine and I would know about your behavior on this forum, this... obsession with a game you do not even play anymore, I would seriously try to arrange an intervention.

And this is my last post about Filth, directed to Filth or instigated directly by Filth. It's going to be difficult sometimes because Filth is all over the FFXIV pages on ZAM, but I'll do my very best.

PS: English is not my first language, and it is 2:24 am for me. Please realize that the grammar and spelling in this post would be as good as flawless in my own language. :)

Edit: minor things. Done now.

Edited, Jul 20th 2012 8:32pm by MrMissile

To be fair, the 'what they have given us so far' could be the changes they've made over the past 2 years. If that is what we're basing their ability to adapt, create and implement content on then I think most people would agree.

You can block me but still respond to my messages, you can make people believe that I troll you while in fact you troll every positive thought or idea or piece of hope regarding FFXIV and/or 2.0 expressed on this forum, and you can whine about being karma bombed to the pointed where you get rated up and the people you disagree with get karma bombed...

... I know that you know that I see right through you and the stupid tactics you use to camouflage your obsessions, namely winning an argument and trashing SE and their games. And there will always be people who disagree with you. They are not white knights, just people who actually play the game. Deal with it!

Now do you want to do me a favor? Stop mentioning my name in your posts and stop being suspicious about other posters. Can you do that? Why would you still be busy with someone you blocked? Haha, I got to you, didn't I? Hey... deal with it.

Remember, the world is not out there to get you, nor a single person like me. You are only out there to get SE, so have fun. 2.0 will come anyway, and many people will give it a shot anyway, and many people will decide for themselves whether they like it or not. You cannot stop that buddy, not even if you post 10 messages per thread. Deal with it!

Edited, Jul 21st 2012 5:40am by MrMissile

Weren't you the one who went he is neo and you are agent Smith guy when Filthy McNasty was in one of the many, many argument he has been having so far? If Missile is a white knight than McNasty is by far the biggest dark knight on ZAM. He attacks people frequently and sarcasm and insults are his trademark next to the other things already written about them. Missile's second last post should actually be a sticky. It tells people exactly where your douchebag friend comes from.

Edited, Jul 21st 2012 8:55am by Woofdram

What exactly is a 'dark knight'? If it's supposed to be the opposite of a white knight then you're assuming, incorrectly I might add, that XIV is a game that isn't deserving of the criticism it receives.

I'll admit to being sarcastic, but I don't attack anyone unless provoked.

Any and every game on the planet that provides service that any and every person on said planet knows is not up to standard deserves criticism, especially when the company is charging standard rate for that service. If you look at one of the 'Is XIV worth playing yet' threads from now, another from 6 months ago and another from a year ago they all look the same. The reason for this(and the reason why the criticism seems repetitive, because it is) is because the same issues still persist.


In the simplest sense, the white knight is the guy who comes to the aid of the damsel in distress. I would hope this idea isn't foreign to you as a gamer since it's such a common theme, but lets use another example...

SE is on trial for murdering the development and release of FFXIV. The white knights are the team of people who's job it is(at least in their eyes) to defend SE. SE has already admitted guilt(see apology from Wada) and is ready to 'serve time' by trying to repair the game and their reputation(via 2.0), yet the knights still feel it necessary to try and clear SE's name.



To be fair, all the whining you are referring to is what set SE in action to fix the mess in the first place. If instead all the knights and cheerleaders had their way and no one complained, SE would continue along like there were no issues.

SE has as much potential as any other game and I'll give them a nod for even more, considering that no game has ever come out of the hole they are attempting to clear themselves from. However, until that potential is realized in the form of concrete changes that solidify and make 2.0 the update that everyone has been hoping for, all it will ever be is potential.

Like I have said before, when you lie to your customers you can't expect them to take you at your word after that. This is the reason for the skepticism and doubt. Not because I'm an @#%^, because I am... but because I'm an @#%^ that doesn't appreciate being lied to and won't blindly trust again after being burned.

Edited, Jul 21st 2012 5:46pm by FilthMcNasty

There are very few people stupid enough to defend SE or clear SE's name for their decision to release FFXIV in the state it was 2 years ago. Could it be that you are just looking for them because you like the bickering? But if this is your definition of a white knight then I think a dark knight would be a person who keeps dragging SE to court despite their apologies and despite the announcement of major changes that will eventually result in 2.0. And it is nonsense to be like that, because 2.0 will not arrive any sooner.



That's a weird argument coming from someone who claims that SE does not listen to its customers. Or do they only listen if it conveniently backs up your argument? I would say that it was the drop in subscriptions that made SE realize that the game was in such a terrible shape that something had to be done. I do not think that broken records can fix broken games, and they won't speed up developments either.



Indeed. So stay away until 2.0 comes out. At this moment you are wasting your time. Unless, of course, you just love to bicker.

It's not my definition, it's the generally accepted usage. Black knight isn't a term being used by anyone, but I'd expect it would be the opposite. It would be someone attacking someone or something for being something that it's not or being accusatory for crimes which were not committed in the case of the example.



They didn't listen when it mattered, which was during testing. It wasn't the drop in subs because almost all of the announcements regarding taking player input more seriously came before the sharp drop in players. Wada's apology, Tanaka's outing, the official forums and player polling were all implemented prior to subscription fees and at a time where the population of the game was still well above where it is today.

[citation needed]



All I did was point out that the mistakes they made back then have brought us to where we are now. The past affects the future, not the other way around. You disagree?



Facts... get them straight. FFXIV was free for well over a year and never charged a monthly subscription fee prior to January of this year. They hemorrhaged all those players while the game was B2P. Surprisingly, and people who keep track of population will back this up, but they really didn't lose many players over the past few months. The majority left well before SE even started talk of subscription fee.



Actually, no. The official forum was launched nearly a year prior to subscription fees and many polls were conducted before fees were even mentioned.



I never tried to imply that my opinion alone prompted SE to take a serious look at XIV, apologize to the playerbase, implement more features for the community or any of the other changes they have implemented or plan to in the future. In the age of the internet, word of mouth travels at the speed of light and can and will decimate anything in it's path. XIV was no exception. I don't expect them to bend to my will, but when the opinion I hold is echoed by thousands of other players as it was in the months leading up to launch and even today, companies fall in line or they fall the @#%^ off.

The launch was bad whether you assess the situation two years ago or today. You're making my point for me... thanks?


Since when did correcting your false statements become a game?

Your statement clearly states incorrectly that they were charging for the game and stopped. The subscription fee started earlier this year. The reason I am pointing this out is because you seem to think that a drop in subscriptions was the cause for SE taking action. There were never any subscriptions before they decided to rebuild XIV in 2.0 Woofdram. The population was declining while the game was completely free to play (outside of the cost of the disc)... capeesh?

It wasn't possible for XIV to lose subscribers until they actually started charging a subscription fee, which would be earlier this year... way, way past the time everything we were discussing happened. What happened was people decided that even though there was no subscription fee, XIV wasn't worth their time.

The reason that my posts seem repetitive to you is that you don't seem to get it the first time around. Is there another way that it might sink in so I don't have to keep repeating myself? Colored font perhaps?


I am repeating the same things people were saying two years ago? Now why would I do that? Oh, that's right... the same problems still exist. It was relevant 2 years ago and still relevant today, tomorrow and until they actually do something to fix it. That may come with 2.0 and despite what you think I hope it does, but that doesn't change the fact that it's not here now.



You were done the moment you based your conclusion about why SE decided to make changes on false information.

I cannot provide you with exact population because the data simply didn't exist beyond a certain point. Why? SE implemented a patch that removed the ability to see how many players were online by using the search feature. Any guess as to why SE might remove the ability to see how many(better yet, how few) people were logged in? Take a stab. It's all speculation, but they obviously didn't want people tracking population. You can find info on this forum from before the patch where people were posting the populations for their specific servers at various times of the day. I'll let you find that on your own because I don't want to spoil it for you.

If I recall correctly, there was someone or a group of people who were parsing character data after the changes to search. They compared a character's data at different times of the week and checked for change in levels to determine if the character was active or not. However, this data isn't conclusive evidence since people are allowed multiple characters on a service account. There was still no way to track the number of unique accounts that were active.

As for the timeline, if you want exact dates you'll have to track them down yourself. This old dog doesn't play fetch.

Your conclusion is disproved by anyone with common knowledge of XIV. Why couldn't you be bothered to click the link and read it for yourself? As much as I'd like to, I'm not going to hold your hand through the process of you discovering that you're a dumbass. I'd much rather you put it together on your own. Hell, maybe you'll even gather up the strength to admit that you were wrong, though I highly doubt that. You seem like you'd gladly just continue on with your hands over your eyes.

Good luck with that.



Edited, Jul 22nd 2012 7:00pm by FilthMcNasty

Scroll up, click the link and read the article. If that's too much for you then go to google and type in 'FFXIV subscription fee'. There are over 50,000 results for you to choose from. Unfortunately for you, all of them will prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are wrong.

I'd be willing to bet that despite anyone in these forum's personal feelings they may harbor for anything I have said about their beloved XIV, they're still not stupid enough not to know when they are being charged.



I'm flattered that you think people would imitate me on these boards. 7/10 for the attempted deflection.

Even if that did happen, the gap in my life wouldn't be nearly as large as the gap between your ears.

You can add one tactile reason to the speculation: They found a group of players not scarred by FFXIV's bad initial release in the largest MMO marketplace this world has: China.

Even if FFXIV finds only a niche audience among Chinese players, we're still talking easily 100~500k players from China alone.

I didn't think it was even on the table, but they're going to go do it. That's a huge player pool to tap from.

Seeing as how probably half of the active accounts are RMT bots, I think your numbers might even be a bit low

Sorry Filth, I know you are having fun with this, but I gotta call BS on this.

I had a nice long rant about it, but figured, just keep it simple:
Since I payed for three 1 year subscriptions at the launch of the game, and Yoshi didn't come in until much later than that, I find it very hard to believe that I missed the polls or an apology that came out before I received the three copies of the collectors edition that we installed in the house.

And yes, before you really go into it, they stayed in trial mode, and they never charged me (and they even canceled my subscriptions themselves when they went to the indefinite trial period). But yes, there was a mass-Exodus from the game in the first 30 days. SE even goes as far as to imply the mass-Exodus was occuring (and get called out on it)
http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/news/detail?newsId=60bd5ecff1b7645d4e1ead107941f0d8c4e88994
http://slashdot.org/story/10/10/16/1241202/Square-Enix-Attempting-emFinal-Fantasy-XIVem-Damage-Control

Could have stopped here. You made my point for me.

All I was pointing out was that the subscription fee was not the cause of people leaving the game. It couldn't have been because people left the game before SE started charging for it. SE didn't start charging for it because they didn't feel it was worth the fee, nevermind what anyone else thought.

I think lot of expectation of FFXIV 2.0 is to compete with other leading MMO's which isn't the case. This isn't suppose to be an update with new content, this is suppose to fix the original version. Original FFXI or vanilla WoW wasn't anything compared to what they turned into. The games develop through updates / expansions.

FFXIV's battle system sucked, leveling sucked, UI was a nightmare, and the job / crafting system was such an incoherent mess that most players quit within the first week. 2.0 is suppose to fix these issues, and restart from day 1. It should be treated as a brand new MMO with many updates and adventures to come, not a "finished" game with all content released. The mentality should switch from "SE is a huge game developer and they promised us miracles. 2.0 should have me as hooked as FFXI did" to "SE got a second chance, if they fix the basics, let's see how far they can take this game"

The real question bugging me as I purchased the game yesterday, is did they spend the last year or two trying to do voice-over in the game. Something more than grunts will be nice. Or if I need to update my sound card driver or something, please advise ...

I think FFFXIV had the added challenge of every developer and production studio making an MMO to be released after it having something to look at and say, "see that sh*t? Don't be like that" while pointing a stern finger at a copy of FFXIV.

They really set the bar for how bad a launch can go and makes a good case study for what not to do for any company worth its salt.

Filthy McNasty doesn't realize that other people can read and see exactly what I meant with "big words". But then again, he also wants to compare people with more than 1500 posts packed with whining, complaints, negative thoughts, gloomy predictions and fighting words - stuff already covered by other people - with people who have yet to reach the post count of 70.

On the old FFXI forum he would have been picked apart and rated down for beating a dead horse to the point where his posts would not show up anymore, but in here he still has a few fans.

Good for him. I am just not one of them.

Edited, Jul 27th 2012 4:06am by Woofdram

I have to say, after watching the trailer (and now I want to know when we get thrown out of time... I am assuming that's the next part of the live event?) I am actually getting really excited to see the new release. The addition of the Ice and mountains in Mohr Dhona (not sure how that works, but I don't argue with Behemoths), and the near-complete obliteration of Ul'dah (this whole time I thought it was Gridania that was gonna get pwned) is definitely changing the look of the game.

With the Class and Job changes, combined with materia, new crafts (the new craft engine also looks like it has potential).

I gotta say, looking at what 14 was (and I was excited before I played the beta of that), and now, it is definitely a different game, and has the components it desperately needed.

Now, they just need to make sure that they get enough of the stuff in at launch, and don't leave us waiting too long for the items that can't make it in yet (the group crafting, player housing, new classes and jobs, raising the level cap, multi-person skillchains, and such).

*DISCLAIMER*
There will be links in this post. They contain all of the information you need. They link to either this website, the official lodestone or BG. Click them and read them unless you want to remain oblivious.



The only figure needed to disprove your conclusion: January 6th, 2012



If subscription fees chased away the population of XIV, then you wouldn't have known until after January of this year. The mere fact that the announcement is posted to the Lodestone proves that the community forums came before subscription fees. The bus is warming up... /jinglekeys

Wada's apology...

Click the link and take note of the date it was posted. Now click the link in the post. Unless you are suggesting that this poster is a mind reader and a time traveler, we'll go ahead and call that strike two.

It's clear you aren't ready for the major leagues just yet and we should be playing softball rules, but I've moved past the point of feeling sorry for you. So for the sake of rubbing it in, go ahead and look through this. Take note of the date, compare to the date of the previous link and look over the data. Plenty of spreadsheets, charts and graphs for you to peruse. The numbers decline sharply before the thread ends basically because SE removed the ability to parse the data. Doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure it out Woof. Strike three.



ftfy

Ask a new player who has recently posted a 'Hi, I'm new to XIV' thread on these forums to come up with a list of things that they hope would be worked out by the time 2.0 launches. Take that list and compare it to the issues people like me have been 'whining' about for two years. Note how they are nearly identical, realize that gripes from two years ago are still the same and accept that they are still valid. This is the conclusion any rational person would come to. What's your excuse?

Edited, Jul 27th 2012 11:05pm by FilthMcNasty

So one more time Filth: what made SE decide to change FFXIV:

- bad sales
- bad reviews
- departure of players because of upcoming supscription payments
- people becoming bored
- departure of players because of actual charging

or, what you said:

- The complaints on the internet

What contributed more, you think?