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#1 Oct 04 2008 at 10:03 AM Rating: Decent
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I have played a decent amount of MMOs and I know they are not all perfect...

For some reason though I am getting really bothered about something with war. In WOW, FFXI, and AOC I always felt like I was traversing a continent and exploring a world around me. In WOW I think they got this most correct out of any other mmo available.

I never felt more disjointed than when I play Warhammer right now. I feel like I am warping back and forth between giant slabs of land with the least amount of purpose I have ever felt in any MMO.. They are not afraid to give you random quests that send you all over the world to talk to someone. And the quests, they feel so random to me.. Is it just because I am doing things in the dark elf lands are all the quests this random chaos region the greenskins?

I am not going to leave the just because of this .. but even with the PVP its a lot to take in. they forced me away from the game mode I liked the most in Khains embrace and now I can pick any one of the new game modes but one of them would be forcing me to deal with some crazy place that has trees that murder your frame rate to death.

Ok what am I doing wrong?
How come my experience is more "WTF" than it should be right now.. it feels disjointed, random, nothing grounded about my experience. I always feel like I have zero clue what the heck is going on at any given time more so than any other mmo I have ever played....

Edited, Oct 4th 2008 1:58pm by thorazinekizzez
#2 Oct 04 2008 at 10:20 AM Rating: Decent
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Sorry to hear you feel the way you do. I just started myself and have noticed that a small amount of quests did send you to the different races lands.

In my experience of the system after you speak to a npc who is giving out quests they usually have a nice little story that tells you some background. In the background and from the task they are asking you to do it does give you a sort of reason for actually doing the quest.

The quests that have had you go to different lands where just a quick flight to that land. You simply speak to the npc character the quest asks you to and then head back to the land you were at before.

I have so far only been asked in a quest to fly to a different land twice but i believe the reason behind this is to show the player that there is more out there in the form of quests than what you see in the land you start out in.

I myself started out with a chaos character and in my experience all of the quests have felt like there was a small purpose behind them and were fairly close to the npc you accepted the quest from.

possibly you might want to try slowing down and read the brief message that npc's give you about the quests.

Also i am having a blast playing this game.



#3 Oct 04 2008 at 11:03 AM Rating: Good
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There is a trade off for convenience.

I would prefer queuing from anywhere and instant flight paths rather than what I had in WoW or FFXi.

Another reason might be the abstract control maps.

I personally don't feel what you do but that might be because I know exactly where I am in the world without having to look at the map and am immersed in 20 years of "lore" that I've been collecting over the years.
#4 Oct 04 2008 at 11:43 AM Rating: Decent
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One thing I've noticed is that the lore REALLY ties things together. I'm not a lore-oriented player, and probably read less than 10% of quests when I play WoW ... but WAR quests are really good, well-written, and set the tone nicely. For me, anyway, it ties everything together.

As for framerate issues with "trees" (etc), I'm not sure what to suggest. I have an average system and I mange to play the game on full settings at 1920x1200 and never dip below 30 FPS (with 50-60 being most common). Is your computer somewhat decent? Is it running nice and clean?
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#5 Oct 04 2008 at 1:09 PM Rating: Excellent
Never Jord?

Not even in those 100v100 RVR keep fight?

You sure your computer is 'average'? Or by 'average' do you mean it makes the entire Los Angeles area lose power for 1 minute everytime you boot it? :P
#6 Oct 04 2008 at 1:11 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
As for framerate issues with "trees" (etc), I'm not sure what to suggest. I have an average system and I mange to play the game on full settings at 1920x1200 and never dip below 30 FPS (with 50-60 being most common). Is your computer somewhat decent? Is it running nice and clean?


yeah the machine is fine

I know whats causing the frame rate to dip so much.
Its incredible amounts of overdraw caused by all alpha blended materials on the trees overlapping like mad because its supposed to be a forest.
Its eating my fill rate like a bastard..

They just need to automatically reduce your draw distance when in a forest setting like that. its not like you can see terribly far anyway with all the obstructions. Besides a bit of fog hiding a clipping plain would possibly make the environment more moody.

A quick fix for me will to simply be to reduce my draw distance manually. a long term fix for them will be to either reduce the large amounts of overdraw by reducing the alpha blending or introduce an automatic occlusion culling technique of some sort either it be a designer mandated distance plain volume to automatically adjust the draw distance for anyone in the area or improved LODs on the trees to accommodate lower spec machines.

Also another thing I am running into.
Every single time I get a quest that sends me to an area where there is a PQ happening that quest ends up being impossible to finish. Right now they have me looking for some commander so I can chop his head off and its in a chapter 7 PQ.. I looked EVERYWHERE for this guy for about 45 minutes he is not there.. ><...

Edited, Oct 4th 2008 5:12pm by thorazinekizzez

Edited, Oct 4th 2008 5:12pm by thorazinekizzez
#7 Oct 04 2008 at 2:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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Aside from trees and frame rates...

What exactly is confusing you about traveling around the land on the quests?

I've got an Empire and a Greenskin character and so far I've loved every second of it.
#8 Oct 04 2008 at 7:00 PM Rating: Decent
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GrumpyWookie wrote:
Aside from trees and frame rates...

What exactly is confusing you about traveling around the land on the quests?


I love this..
So the mobs I needed to fight only show up during the phase 3 portion of the PQ. If you are not in a group doing the PQ you wont find them. hell you will be lucky to see them.

ok so then on top of that I get all of the heads from the commanders and I get a red blotch. A small red blotch that specifically says I need to give them to a dude in the red dot.

Hes not there..
Its a small area and nothing but friendly soldiers. I speak to all of them in the area nothing. The Named NPC I am supposed to give the heads to is not in the red blotch.

I checked all of the dead bodies and everything..
AGAIN this sh*t is @#%^ing annoying.. its always @#%^ed up quests like this aarrggghh..

THIS IS NOT a problem I had in WOW or AOC.. maybe like one or two slightly confusing quests here and there.. but the quests in this game never fail... its getting really god damn annoying ><..

oh wait maybe I need to check for a magic inv item.. I got a bunch of random quest items maybe that's the ticket..

edit:

ok someone told me this...

It turns out apparently that the red blotch has a tiny little corner that's actually on top of a huge super tall mountain.

So they made this fairly small red marker on the map and the lower right corner of the blotch is a really long walk all the way around the other side of this mountain. The rest of the blotch is at the foot of the mountain.

>.>d
yeah That great thanks for the map marker guys no really..

Edited, Oct 5th 2008 12:04am by thorazinekizzez

Edited, Oct 5th 2008 12:05am by thorazinekizzez
#9 Oct 04 2008 at 10:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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I love this..
So the mobs I needed to fight only show up during the phase 3 portion of the PQ. If you are not in a group doing the PQ you wont find them. hell you will be lucky to see them.


There's no such quest requirement in the entirety of Tier 1 and 2 to the best of my knowledge.

Please name the quest?

Several quest require you to kill Stage 1 Mob... or mobs that are in the pq area but not actually related to the pq (extremely common)... so yes, if the mob is dead and hasn't respawned yet, you have to wait. And it might be hard to find/claim it seeing how many people are just running around killing stuff.
#10 Oct 04 2008 at 11:04 PM Rating: Decent
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name of the quest was something "heads rolling" or some such cant remember the exact name.

I am thinking that until I joined the warband trying to do the PQ at griffon gate I was unable to find the commanders.

It might have been that they are on a 5-10 minute respawn possibly longer so it just so happened that I got the heads when I joined the warband. 1 of them I saw and killed the other 2 just sort of happened >.>..

I scanned the area before anyone else was around for a decent amount of time too. I saw no named mobs before it went into phase two on the PQ...

*shrugs*...
#11 Oct 04 2008 at 11:42 PM Rating: Decent
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thorazinekizzez wrote:
name of the quest was something "heads rolling" or some such cant remember the exact name.

I am thinking that until I joined the warband trying to do the PQ at griffon gate I was unable to find the commanders.

It might have been that they are on a 5-10 minute respawn possibly longer so it just so happened that I got the heads when I joined the warband. 1 of them I saw and killed the other 2 just sort of happened >.>..

I scanned the area before anyone else was around for a decent amount of time too. I saw no named mobs before it went into phase two on the PQ...

*shrugs*...

in the DE place? i did that, had trouble finding one of the commanders, but there not part of the PQ at all, most likely just get killed in the chaos of it, and then everytime they respawn if you dont knw exactly where he is, he would get killed and you would never see him.
#12 Oct 05 2008 at 12:34 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah, it's the dark elf one in the shadowlands where you kill 4 commanders and then give the heads to an NPC to shoot out with the lobbers. And yeah, it's a bit hard to find the NPC to turn them in to, but it's not -that- bad. All you have to do is look up and you'll see all the NPCs lining the cliff up there.
#13 Oct 05 2008 at 9:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Hripthe wrote:
Yeah, it's the dark elf one in the shadowlands where you kill 4 commanders and then give the heads to an NPC to shoot out with the lobbers. And yeah, it's a bit hard to find the NPC to turn them in to, but it's not -that- bad. All you have to do is look up and you'll see all the NPCs lining the cliff up there.


You think this one quest I am talking about?

This is one example..

The quests in this game should be 30% less confusing.

I think one thing I would do differently is not make it so every quest uses the red radius marker on the map.

example:
If the point of the quest is to talk to some dude it should simply show the location of the dude.

If the point of the quest is to find someone who has been in hiding for a few years and nobody knows if he is even still alive. Use the red radius.

example:
If I am being asked to find an ancient artifact use the red radius.

If I am being told to go and get the ancient artifact just show where the damn things is why this extra mystery.

All they did was make every single quest into finding an ancient artifact even if its a person who is well known alive and standing in a god damn city waiting for you to talk to him.

That's one thing I think would help a lot ..
Its really sad when I actually think questing was easier in WOW when it didn't even have the red map markers and such.. Its like they used the fact that you show the player the general area as an excuse to make the quests more confusing..

I sure as hell am not talking about 1 quest..
#14 Oct 05 2008 at 10:30 AM Rating: Decent
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Yea I know what you mean. There's been a couple of quests where I just could not find whatever was supposed to be in the red mark. But I chalked it up to just not being used to the language of the game, because every time I finally found the item or person, I was like, oh, well that's it? One of those, duh moments, it feels like.
#15 Oct 05 2008 at 1:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Webjunky wrote:
Yea I know what you mean. There's been a couple of quests where I just could not find whatever was supposed to be in the red mark. But I chalked it up to just not being used to the language of the game, because every time I finally found the item or person, I was like, oh, well that's it? One of those, duh moments, it feels like.


well guess what..
I found something out about the game that has me feeling way better.

I don't want to disclose this info just yet.
Im going to see if this works out for a little while.

If what I found is true then my complaints about the quests are 100% eliminated.

so far it seems as though it is in fact the case XD.. I just got a big warm cup of STFU it seems lol..



#16 Oct 05 2008 at 8:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Well now I'm curious.
#17 Oct 05 2008 at 8:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Webjunky wrote:
Well now I'm curious.


Ok This isn't some kind of crazy exploit or super secret so ill go ahead and explain now that I have had a chance to mess with it.

I did a little bit of testing and some digging

I didn't realize that there are these dudes called kill collectors in every camp in the game. Well I knew they existed but I never bothered to take advantage of them.

until today
I tried to do one in a town and I got a lot of good loot.. these wolves apparently carry green armor around >.>..

I go back to the guy and turn in my kills that took me about 30 minutes. I get 4565 xp.

So I realize doing the math I am matching the XP and loot I get from doing the quests. but its zero frustration. I can flag for RVR kill some mobs do a scenario then jump right back in kill some mobs flag for a scenario. I blew through most level 17 doing this and made a good 5-8 gold possibly more. imho that's better bang for the buck doing actual quests >.>...

but here is the catch.
It appears that every one of these guys has a limit. the second time I tried to do a run with the same dude he only gave me 1400 xp or so the second time..

If its possible for me to go around and hit the kill collectors up and gain my xp while flagged for a scenario I will find myself enjoying the game a lot more.

Question is...
Do all of the kill collectors in the same zone have the same limit?
And if I wait awhile will they reset so I can do them again?

If so I wont be doing normal quests unless I find its got something specific for me like an item or gear or something that I want. Otherwise the only quests ill do are the ones that give more xp for killing X number of players in PVP ect and I will just bounce around kill collectors.

I will be happy if this is possible. The game instantly turned from almost being a chore with these badly made quests into being quite fun and fast paced. I like just going to an area and killing sh*t for awhile between PVP/RVR matches. It takes all of that WTF problem away.. I hope that I can level this way reliably.

Edited, Oct 6th 2008 12:47am by thorazinekizzez

Edited, Oct 6th 2008 12:51am by thorazinekizzez
#18 Oct 06 2008 at 1:11 AM Rating: Decent
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Did you kill exactly the same amount of the specific things the second time around? When you hand in the quest, if you mouse over the XP icon for the quest it will tell you how much you get per kill. For example, it might say 70xp. So if I've killed 10 of them since my last visit to that Kill Collector I'd get 700xp. Maybe that was the reason you got less the second time around?
#19 Oct 06 2008 at 1:19 AM Rating: Good
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Every chapter hub has kill collectors, they aren't exactly a secret.

They each have a quest, but it doesn't show up in your quest log. The quest is to kill what ever mobs they ask for, and you get a set amount of xp for each one you kill.

There is a limit to how many mobs they will "pay" for, I'm not sure what it is, but its somewhere between 20 and 50. It may vary, increasing as you journey to higher chapters?

It does not reset, you can only complete the kill collectors quest once.

They are a good source of exp, I've recieved over 20k from one in the High Elf chapter 19 hub. They will never net you enough xp to replace questing though. They just supplement your xp.
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#20 Oct 06 2008 at 8:20 AM Rating: Decent
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Loaar wrote:
Every chapter hub has kill collectors, they aren't exactly a secret.

They each have a quest, but it doesn't show up in your quest log. The quest is to kill what ever mobs they ask for, and you get a set amount of xp for each one you kill.

There is a limit to how many mobs they will "pay" for, I'm not sure what it is, but its somewhere between 20 and 50. It may vary, increasing as you journey to higher chapters?

It does not reset, you can only complete the kill collectors quest once.

They are a good source of exp, I've recieved over 20k from one in the High Elf chapter 19 hub. They will never net you enough xp to replace questing though. They just supplement your xp.


Darn
they don't reset eh.. would be cool if they did every couple of days or something.

You see whats really cool about these is that they are a solo activity so I can do them at the same time as enjoying my PVP activity. Otherwise I would spam PQs allot more. However because of the nature of doing PQs I have to group to do them, and I need to stay for the duration of the event thus flagging for PVP is not something you can do when trying to do some PQs.

Also because of the nature of the quest your rested xp can make a really huge difference with them also.

If it were possible to keep doing these over and over I would have the perfect task between running scenarios. It also seems to make considerably more gold than questing too..

Quote:
Did you kill exactly the same amount of the specific things the second time around? When you hand in the quest, if you mouse over the XP icon for the quest it will tell you how much you get per kill. For example, it might say 70xp. So if I've killed 10 of them since my last visit to that Kill Collector I'd get 700xp. Maybe that was the reason you got less the second time around?


I killed more the second time around than I did the first time.
#21 Oct 06 2008 at 8:55 AM Rating: Excellent
Quite a few kill collectors (but not all) also gives you achievement/tome unlock if you max them out.

And I have to say I find it comical that a former FFXI player is having such a hard time with (what I consider to be fairly simple) quests, but is all excited at learning of a new way to grind Smiley: lol
#22 Oct 06 2008 at 9:05 AM Rating: Decent
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@ being sent to other lands. The quests that have me go to the other lands for the flight path... i just skip 'em and save them for when i actually get around to going over there. The quests aren't that random and yes they do send you here and there on occasion but ... wow did too forcing you to explore. For me it is not that big of an issue because I enjoy taking my time and doing everything there is to do in an area before moving on. But yea, you dont necessarily HAVE to do the flight quests they are nice to just have lying around for when you do manage to make it that way. Hope this helps
#23 Oct 06 2008 at 10:14 AM Rating: Decent
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Warchief Tyrandor wrote:
Quite a few kill collectors (but not all) also gives you achievement/tome unlock if you max them out.

And I have to say I find it comical that a former FFXI player is having such a hard time with (what I consider to be fairly simple) quests, but is all excited at learning of a new way to grind Smiley: lol


Quote:
fairly simple


They are not complicated quests they are needlessly confusing and arbitrary.

I had zero problems with the Quests in WOW or AOC but for some reason 3/5 quests in War piss me the hell off.. To a point where grinding mobs is better lol..

Maybe its because my playing style is very impatient.
If I am not progressing at a certain rate I get bored. Its most likely just me.. Yet in WOW .. ( all this talking about WOW has me wanting to play it again lol) This was not a problem for me in wow at all and even in AOC when I got a quest I knew where to go and what to do 100% of the time.

Seriously though

/end thread because my bitching has to end at some point. I am a very impatient person when it comes to getting xp and if a map marker lies to me or they don't explain things perfectly it flusters me. War happens to do this a lot in its quests. I would be a good play tester for this kind of stuff, as a designer myself some things most people might see as normal stick out to me as giant sore thumbs...

You know sometimes when a quest has multiple task markers on the map some of them will tell you what specific is located in that marker while some quests just give you the whole quest run down? You can tell different people made the different quests..

anyway I am going to shut up now.

Edited, Oct 6th 2008 2:11pm by thorazinekizzez
#24 Oct 06 2008 at 10:24 AM Rating: Good
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I just wanted to say that I had a LOT harder time finding the quests in WoW without an addon than I do with WAR. Yea, sometimes the red blobs can be confusing, but it is a heck of a lot better than a vague description in the text of a quest.

Then again, I play mostly Order, so I have never encountered the quests of which you speak.

Good luck, though. I hope you find something that works for you.
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#25 Oct 06 2008 at 11:01 AM Rating: Decent
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I am a very impatient person when it comes to getting xp and if a map marker lies to me or they don't explain things perfectly it flusters me.


lol dude, how in the hell did you handle final fantasy then? 95% of the quests i've had in WAR were simple and direct. there have been one or two head scratcher, but only 1 i haven't been able to complete for lack of being able to find the NPC, i'm STILL not sure where that bastard is. but it's not like it's a game stopper.
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#26 Oct 06 2008 at 11:41 AM Rating: Decent
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lol dude, how in the hell did you handle final fantasy then?


ah that's kind of a catch 22 question.

You don't quest in FFXI and when you do you read a walk through with extremely straight forward info with a handful of NPCs that you already know about because you have used them before and they tell you to go to locations that you have already been. Its completely different situation. Most of all though.. You just don't quest in that game.

Quote:
I just wanted to say that I had a LOT harder time finding the quests in WoW without an addon than I do with WAR. Yea, sometimes the red blobs can be confusing, but it is a heck of a lot better than a vague description in the text of a quest.


Its like this.
In WOW they knew people didn't have the quest markers so they knew to make sure it was possible to figure them out with out the markers. WOW with no quest markers is very much possible to play.

Warhammer though.
If you took out the quest markers in War nearly all of the quests would become pretty much impossible. It would be a freaking joke even.

Go ahead and turn off the quest markers on all quests and try to play just like you did in WOW back in the day. Good luck completing nearly any of the quests. Now why is that?

WOW with quest markers is way easier than War with Quest markers.
They took a good feature and drug it through the mud a bit... Its not unforgivable but its not exactly fun for me..

Edit: really should stop bumping this thread. At this point I am just bitching for no real reason. I finished venting about this awhile back and its pretty clear why I like War has nothing to do with its questing. PVP/RVR PQs and kill collectors and I am happy you don't really need to quest in the game so its not really an issue! I am actually happy with the game!

Edited, Oct 6th 2008 3:45pm by thorazinekizzez
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