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Petition to Free the ChickensFollow

#1 Oct 01 2008 at 1:10 PM Rating: Default
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Just checkin' the climate to see what others think of the fact that you can't go into lower level areas on PVP servers, well you can but turn into a chicken...

I think this idea is pretty lame and higher lvl toons should be able to not only access lower level areas, but kill the newbies as well :)

My thoughts:

If you don't like getting ganked by higher level bored/twisted folk, people should just play on a carebear PVE server, that's what they are there for.

Chicken factor means you can't go back and unlock tome tactics, help lower lvl friends etc... (sure power leveling is frowned upon, but they can do this on PVE servers :S)

It's actually fun to have zones of strife..in WoW I'm thinking of redridge mountains, stranglethorn vale, hillsbrad/southshore. These zones are gank central where higher lvl players continually prey on lower lvl ones.

I've been on both the sending and receiving end of unfair ganking and for all my swearing, being forced to quest elsewhere or logging out, I still love those aspects of the game.

Leveling becomes strategic (what times are good to quest there, what open areas to avoid, etc.. paranoia ftw). Those days where I would escape getting hunted down or run a higher lvl player into a group of high lvls in my faction were exciting and fun.

Furthermore, often enough when it gets pretty hairy, higher lvl players from the opposing faction jump in to protect the newbies. This kind of stuff is fun and an essential element of the PVP lifestyle.

Sure, the best PVP is not cheap ganking with easy to kill targets or vice-versa having no chance against an indomitable foe. The best PVP will always be against those with similar gear and lvl with an effort at striving for class balancing.

But, I still feel that the excitement and rush you get from these unfair scenarios is something I miss and would like to see implemented. ****, even the frustration of leveling under harsh conditions gives you that bragging right to "yeah, I leveled on a PVP server". PVP servers are supposed to be rough, that's the idea, that's often why they don't let you xfer from PVE to PVP but will allow the opposite...

What do you think?

Edited, Oct 1st 2008 5:07pm by Hegemonik
#2 Oct 01 2008 at 1:12 PM Rating: Good
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Hegemonik wrote:
Just checkin' the climate to see what others think of the fact that you can't go into lower level areas on PVP servers, well you can but turn into a chicken...

I think this idea is pretty lame and higher lvl toons should be able to not only access lower level areas, but kill the newbies as well :)

and this is exactly why the rule exists, to stop people like you from farming the new players.

Quote:
If you don't like getting ganked by higher level bored/twisted folk, people should just play on a carebear PVE server, that's what they are there for.

sorry, no such thing as a PVE server in WAR, there all based around RvR.

and if cores are carebears, then opens are posers, as it seems to make people think there hardcore.

and yes, currently im playing on an open server.

Edited, Oct 1st 2008 5:09pm by MasterOfWar
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#3 Oct 01 2008 at 1:15 PM Rating: Default
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lol if you read my post, I am not just speaking about myself as the one preying on lower players, but one who enjoys being preyed upon...

Edited, Oct 1st 2008 5:09pm by Hegemonik
#4 Oct 01 2008 at 1:18 PM Rating: Good
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Hegemonik wrote:
lol if you read my post, I am not just speaking about myself as the one preying on lower players, but one who enjoys being preyed upon...

Edited, Oct 1st 2008 5:09pm by Hegemonik

if they want to be owned by people who can one shot them, you can pretty much do that now, or they could go to a higher tier and get owned.
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#5 Oct 01 2008 at 1:23 PM Rating: Default
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It's not about killing yourself by finding higher lvl players of the opposing faction who will one shot you, but about the danger of having local "dragons" nearby that you have to watch out for...

Similar even to the PvE idea of a very high lvl mob in a lower lvl area that wanders the zone and has a high aggro radius (anyone from EQ remember Oasis' sand giant Cazel? /shudder)
#6 Oct 01 2008 at 1:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Hegemonik wrote:
It's not about killing yourself by finding higher lvl players of the opposing faction who will one shot you, but about the danger of having local "dragons" nearby that you have to watch out for...

Similar even to the PvE idea of a very high lvl mob in a lower lvl area that wanders the zone and has a high aggro radius (anyone from EQ remember Oasis' sand giant Cazel? /shudder)

theres already that danger, lvl 21 guys can wander the tier 1 zones all they want, and they can pretty much one shot the lower lvls.

then when you hit tier 2 32 guys can wander around.

and nothing beats the unicorn in in the one faydark, or whatever the zone was.
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#7 Oct 01 2008 at 1:27 PM Rating: Default
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yesh, but more danger plz!! <---*********
#8 Oct 01 2008 at 1:34 PM Rating: Good
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The game is already full of pvp. I don't see a need for this. Ganking discourages players more than anything.

And core servers are fine imho. This game is about pvp so I'm not missing out.
#9 Oct 01 2008 at 1:47 PM Rating: Good
Yesterday on an open/RvR server a group of 6-12 (it varied over the duration) Destruction locked down the entire Empire tier 1 objective area and surrounding PQs on my server. Several of these players were level 20ish. The irony was that there was less than a handful of Order players on in that area over the 3 hours I know they did it, and the majority of those were barely level 10.

So in effect, they succeeded in holding objectives that weren't contested and prevented a couple of people doing their PVE quests. How this was amusing for more than 20 minutes evades me... however it's an open server so they are entitled to spend their time such.

6-12 level 40s with that mindset could effectively prevent all lowbies of the opposite realm from levelling/questing with anything approaching efficiency or fun if there was no chicken rule.

I took my chickened Archmage into the Chaos starting area, finally getting one-shotted by a nasty level 4 npc. If a person waits till level 40 to try and get thier tome unlocks I have no sympathy that zones are locked-out to them.

The chicken rule as-is works alright. I would prefer a chicken rule that activates for killing lowbies (ideally only if you instigated combat as an uber) in their appropriate zones, but I imagine that would be alot of coding for how much benefit?
#10 Oct 01 2008 at 2:13 PM Rating: Good
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Webjunky wrote:
The game is already full of pvp. I don't see a need for this. Ganking discourages players more than anything.

And core servers are fine imho. This game is about pvp so I'm not missing out.


Agreed, I'm PvPing as much as someone on an open server if not more. I queue up all the time while questing or even in keep raids depending how things are going. Only thing open offers is the ability to get attscked by some *****(s) only there to kill lower Ranking people because they are to chicken to fight people their own level.

You wanna PvP then go attack a keep you can enter without being shown your true colors (chicken). When you hit Rank 40 all you will be doing is PvPing.

When I get flagged from doing a quest that throws me into a RvR lake and then I have to travel back out of the RvR lake to turn it in while flagged then ok I'm ready bring it. atleast I'll have a chance to servive because the ones comming at me are in my level range and aren't being cowards.

If my flag isn't down after I turn the quest in, so what I'll go onto the next one while waiting for the flag to go down. Once again I'm ready bring it.

If anyone feels core really is stupid and open is the only way to go then please tell us carebears as you say, other then what I have stated above in my first paragraph what does all out PvP have to offer that core doesn't have? Please enlighten us.

#11 Oct 01 2008 at 2:41 PM Rating: Default
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really? no sympathy for those that don't get all their tome tactic unlocks? I don't even have one yet at lvl 20 and have only just started to see sites that describe ways to get them. Many require killing champion or tougher named mobs (thus would require help) and you may just be happy questing/scenarios at that particular time, be unable to find help or just not know what you need to do.

As a compromise, I agree that it'd be nice if at least you could enter those areas and only turn chicken if you attacked a lower lvl player.

Edited, Oct 1st 2008 6:46pm by Hegemonik
#12 Oct 01 2008 at 2:44 PM Rating: Default
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I actually would like to see the chicken removed because i'm the type of person that will miss content and want to see it on my main. I don't like rolling many alts, i play 1-2 characters in an entire duration of an mmo usually. But i'm also the kind of player that wants to be able to pvp in every zone. I'm open server and i want chicken gone
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#13 Oct 01 2008 at 3:02 PM Rating: Good
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No socks.

Open servers exist because enough of the player base wanted it. If enough players want a completely open server, it will exist too.
#14 Oct 01 2008 at 3:06 PM Rating: Default
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baelnic wrote:
No socks.

Open servers exist because enough of the player base wanted it. If enough players want a completely open server, it will exist too.

im pretty sure they have said time and time again the chicken is here to stay, so teh chances of them removing it are likely in the .1% range.
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#15 Oct 01 2008 at 3:41 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
im pretty sure they have said time and time again the chicken is here to stay, so teh chances of them removing it are likely in the .1% range.


Never say never. If you said we'd never have Open servers 1.5 years ago it would have been a good bet, things changed on that though.
#16 Oct 01 2008 at 4:11 PM Rating: Excellent
Mythic first said they'd be no open server.

Then they said Chicken would go as soon as you left your tier (And now, it's 2 tier below).

Only thing Mythic has shown on this side of things, is that they're up for changes.


I'm personally all for the removal of the chicken.
#17 Oct 01 2008 at 4:14 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
As a compromise, I agree that it'd be nice if at least you could enter those areas and only turn chicken if you attacked a lower lvl player


That is the best suggestion yet that seems comepletely fair. If you want it to go and you don't agree with that statement then it's obvious you have one goal, and that's to be an ***** to lower ranking players..

Edited, Oct 1st 2008 8:13pm by liljman
#18 Oct 01 2008 at 4:19 PM Rating: Excellent
The smartest solution imo, would be to simply apply a reverse bolster effect.

#19 Oct 01 2008 at 4:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Warchief Tyrandor wrote:
The smartest solution imo, would be to simply apply a reverse bolster effect.

this i agree with, but it would end up as worthless as bolster is, or i think it would end up being difficult to put into the game.

now if they could get it so you scaled down to say 11 for tier 1, and be the same power as say, another decently equipped lvl 11, it would be great.
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#20 Oct 01 2008 at 5:21 PM Rating: Good
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Warchief Tyrandor wrote:
The smartest solution imo, would be to simply apply a reverse bolster effect.



How is that the smartest? why go out of the way to lower levels just to do a reverse bolster? When you can just stay in your current area and kill people in your own level range. lemme guess you need a change of suroundings?? I think what we got here is that people that do these retarted things don't wanna be turned into a chicken because its telling them what they truly are.

once again I need to qoute Hegemonik, this is the smartest solution.

Quote:
As a compromise, I agree that it'd be nice if at least you could enter those areas and only turn chicken if you attacked a lower lvl player
#21 Oct 01 2008 at 6:13 PM Rating: Good
Hegemonik wrote:
really? no sympathy for those that don't get all their tome tactic unlocks? I don't even have one yet at lvl 20 and have only just started to see sites that describe ways to get them. Many require killing champion or tougher named mobs (thus would require help) and you may just be happy questing/scenarios at that particular time, be unable to find help or just not know what you need to do.

As a compromise, I agree that it'd be nice if at least you could enter those areas and only turn chicken if you attacked a lower lvl player.

Edited, Oct 1st 2008 6:46pm by Hegemonik


At this point I have no sympathy because it isn't hard to spend an evening running around the other race areas at some point in the nearly 20 levels they are open to you to travel in with the current chicken rule. It's taken me 3 casual evenings to do Empire Tier one so far (into ch. 4), but I have been queing for scenarios with friends and getting mixed up in the tier 1 objective mess (quests all lead you into it).

A person that cares about tome unlocks (and Mythic hasn't been secretive that you need to quest and explore to get those... the loading screens beat it in your head) isn't going to power themselves up to 40 and then cry about missing out and have a credible case.

Hopefully they have been wise enough with things like tome tactics to ensure the average playerbase gets them (a low level tactic shouldn't be a low percentage of the player base accomplishment).
#22 Oct 01 2008 at 6:31 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
this i agree with, but it would end up as worthless as bolster is, or i think it would end up being difficult to put into the game.

now if they could get it so you scaled down to say 11 for tier 1, and be the same power as say, another decently equipped lvl 11, it would be great.


Not sure how it would be difficult - Mythic obviously know what stats a level 11 (And heck? Why 11? Why not 8? Or 7? or _1_?) of whatever class/race has, so it wouldn't be hard to just bring it back down.

Yes, the 'debolstered' level 40 would still have all his abilities and gear - He'd be much tougher then a real level 11... but he wouldn't be godlike either (especially if he got debolstered to the min level for the bracket (Tier 1 = level 1, Tier 2 = level 11, etc). A few real level 11 teaming up could beat him up and his advantage would greatly fade in T2 and T3.

Quote:

How is that the smartest? why go out of the way to lower levels just to do a reverse bolster? When you can just stay in your current area and kill people in your own level range. lemme guess you need a change of suroundings??


Because it might be a slow night in your tier that night?

Current Situation: You're level 40. There's nothing happening in T3-4. Everybody's at T2 keep. You're sitting there with a thumb up your *** (Note this is also an issue in Core server btw).

Reverse Bolster: You're level 40. There's nothing happening in T3-4. Everybody's at T2 keep. You go in and join the fight, while not totally dominating the field.

Seems like the best of both world.

Also allows you to go back and 'help' your friend... except instead of being the level 40 guys who's 'powerleveling' his buds, you're now reverse bolstered and you get to do the quest with them.

And lastly, it will prevent the 'Ghost Town' effect that happens in every mmorpg to low-mid level zone once the game is 6 months in and everybody is at level cap.

The whole point of the chicken system is to prevent higher level to bully lower level - This would do that. But unlike the current chicken system or the one you're proposing, the higher level still get full access to the game, rather than having part of it systematically cut off from him.

Quote:

I think what we got here is that people that do these retarted things don't wanna be turned into a chicken because its telling them what they truly are.


I think what's truely retarded here are people who don't play on open server and truly shouldn't even have a voice on the issue getting outraged at the idea >_>. What do you care that the chicken system is removed from open RVR server?

I'd also like to get why exactly you're calling me a 'chicken' because I'm asking for a system that allow higher level to go back and fight lower level on an 'even ground'.


I for one enjoyed getting ganked in WoW. It isn't just about being the bully, sometimes it's also about being bullied. I can go and try to explain it in greater detail if you want, suffice to say I don't expect carebears to understand, they never have.

And by the way - there's achievements and even trophy to be earned related to the chicken thing... so it's not like Mythic is all that vindicative with it.



Edited, Oct 1st 2008 10:47pm by Tyrandor
#23 Oct 01 2008 at 6:43 PM Rating: Good
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Debolster isn't bad. I don't mind the chicken either really. Not because of ganking. But if a lvl 40 was able to run around any zone without any type of debuff, then so much for WAR being all about RvR. It would become a game of get to 40 THEN do the RvR versus RvR through the levels.

Imo the whole chicken thing is good for tiered RvR. These lakes and keeps are for the lvl 20s to take. Especially when the keep lord is only lvl 20 himself.

No chicken at all reminds me of the towers in Hellfire on WoW. Rewards for lvl 60-62s and pretty much useless for 70s other than the +Rep thing. But good luck trying to take them at 60 when you are fighting 70s.
#24 Oct 01 2008 at 7:23 PM Rating: Default
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Warchief Tyrandor wrote:
Quote:
this i agree with, but it would end up as worthless as bolster is, or i think it would end up being difficult to put into the game.

now if they could get it so you scaled down to say 11 for tier 1, and be the same power as say, another decently equipped lvl 11, it would be great.


Not sure how it would be difficult - Mythic obviously know what stats a level 11 (And heck? Why 11? Why not 8? Or 7? or _1_?) of whatever class/race has, so it wouldn't be hard to just bring it back down.

Yes, the 'debolstered' level 40 would still have all his abilities and gear - He'd be much tougher then a real level 11... but he wouldn't be godlike either (especially if he got debolstered to the min level for the bracket (Tier 1 = level 1, Tier 2 = level 11, etc). A few real level 11 teaming up could beat him up and his advantage would greatly fade in T2 and T3.

[quote]

im merely thinking about how easily i could take out several lvl2-3s that are bolstered to 8, at say, 10, so if it makes that much of a difference when its only jumping you 7, i could imagine how strong it would keep a lvl 40 with a 30 lvl difference.

now if it could intelligently scale down equipments, and number of abilities, i think it could work better.
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#25 Oct 01 2008 at 10:08 PM Rating: Decent
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The only thing that threw me for a loop is the fact that at level 12 I was instantly turned into a chicken because I tossed hot on a guy who looked like he was in danger of death from a mob that was 2 levels over him outside of the tier 1 PVP area.. he had left the area but had yet to deflag completely or something.

And what really throws me for a loop is when you contrast the punishment of being chickened vs death.

Think about it...
If you turn into a chicken its CONSIDERABLY worse fate than DEATH LOL!!!!
Careful who @#%^ing toss heals too you might have to be a chicken for 15 minutes a fate far worse than death!

Edited, Oct 2nd 2008 2:03am by thorazinekizzez
#26 Oct 01 2008 at 11:32 PM Rating: Good
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I am quite .. entertained .. by the number of times I have seen people complain about the chicken mechanic on the forum. Agreed, the strict break point of the mechanic is harsh at times but until Mythic have the time available to smooth it out just treat it as one of those things you learn to work with.

I agree that going back to finish off tome unlocks when I hit R40 would be nice ... but I all ready know that if I want to wander around and explore I can do it now rather than rush headlong to R40 as if it was a race and then complain that there was nothig to do because I couldn't be bothered to do it on the journey. If exploring T1 & T2 content as a r40 rather than RvR is your bag then don't join an Open RvR server - go join a core server.

Ganking maybe be fun every so often .. but there are far too many players who view ganking as just part of the subset of play that is basically griefing. People need to be able to play on EVERY type of server knowing they will be able to level towards at least r24 (when, based on a thumbnail calculation, the t2 content ceases to give exp) without being molested by some a$$hat who gets their kicks molesting other players with no real chance at comeback.

All the chicken mechanic does, when looking at intent rather than the current slightly clumsy incarnation of it's implementation, is make sure that if you want to go hunting lowbies it isn't automatically a one sided battle. When I hit r40 I will probably hunt r32s across the zone for fun every so often, at least that's sport and I know that if I get cocky and plow into a group of a few of them they have a good chance of handing me my giblets.

When people say "I like being ganked" I auto-translate that in my head as "I like griefing but know I'd get rated down if I told everyone what I really wanted".

Maybe Mythic will create a chicken free server type - but they should probably label it "RvR, A$$hat type".

& grats to Hegemonik the troll. Good trolling.

:p
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#27 Oct 02 2008 at 2:18 AM Rating: Good
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Warchief Tyrandor wrote:


Liljman wrote:

I think what we got here is that people that do these retarted things don't wanna be turned into a chicken because its telling them what they truly are.


I think what's truely retarded here are people who don't play on open server and truly shouldn't even have a voice on the issue getting outraged at the idea >_>. What do you care that the chicken system is removed from open RVR server?

I'd also like to get why exactly you're calling me a 'chicken' because I'm asking for a system that allow higher level to go back and fight lower level on an 'even ground'.


I for one enjoyed getting ganked in WoW. It isn't just about being the bully, sometimes it's also about being bullied. I can go and try to explain it in greater detail if you want, suffice to say I don't expect carebears to understand, they never have.

Liljman wrote:

How is that the smartest? why go out of the way to lower levels just to do a reverse bolster? When you can just stay in your current area and kill people in your own level range. lemme guess you need a change of suroundings??


Because it might be a slow night in your tier that night?

Current Situation: You're level 40. There's nothing happening in T3-4. Everybody's at T2 keep. You're sitting there with a thumb up your *** (Note this is also an issue in Core server btw).

Reverse Bolster: You're level 40. There's nothing happening in T3-4. Everybody's at T2 keep. You go in and join the fight, while not totally dominating the field.

Seems like the best of both world.

Also allows you to go back and 'help' your friend... except instead of being the level 40 guys who's 'powerleveling' his buds, you're now reverse bolstered and you get to do the quest with them.

And lastly, it will prevent the 'Ghost Town' effect that happens in every mmorpg to low-mid level zone once the game is 6 months in and everybody is at level cap.

The whole point of the chicken system is to prevent higher level to bully lower level - This would do that. But unlike the current chicken system or the one you're proposing, the higher level still get full access to the game, rather than having part of it systematically cut off from him.





You are right I don't play on an open server it doesn't mean I would not have mind trying but considering all the bullying why bother? You guys use this term carebears for core players insulting people who don't play on an open server why do you care?

This isn't WoW this is WAR and the whole point is RvR not lowbie ganking and thats the only thing open servers add to the mix if you remove the chicken. I'm not saying turn into a chicken once you enter the area just when you hit a lowbie

Was I calling you a chicken or the people who like to bully lowbies? I don't recall saying your a chicken because you want to beable to reverse bolster maybe I should have been more clearer on that. I was reffering to the bullies.

You enjoy being ganked? Thats like saying you enjoy being somebodies nvm I'm not gonna say anything further on this. No thanx you don't need to explain further..

In one area your saying maybe its a slow night in your tier then your saying it will prevent ghost towns that occur when everyone is capped. Well what one is it gonna be? You can't say your tier is slow that night and go ahead and say it would prevent ghost towns when everyone is capped. Btw if there are ghost towns why worry about the chicken anyways if everybody is at cap?

you wanna go back and mess around in a T2 keep, once again how is this gonna happen if everyone is at cap? I mean remember the ghost town point you were trying to make?

One thing I can understand is wanting to help lower friends I'm sure they can come up with something rather then taking the chicken out completely. Make alts together this would prevent the ghost town effect.

Only option I agreed with was make it so once you try to attack a lowbie you turn into a chicken. This does prevent bullying.

So the only valid point you made was because you wanna go back and help friends. So take the chicken out completely for this one thing eh?

With reverse bolstering would you gain xp from it? or renown xp? would that be right? If so why bother having any Ranks in the game. Why not just make it so people stay at rank one and only learn abilities as they go forward.

If you reverse bolster could you enter lower tier scenarios? If so wouldn't that mess up the queues even more?

#28 Oct 02 2008 at 6:03 AM Rating: Decent
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liljman wrote:

Agreed, I'm PvPing as much as someone on an open server if not more. I queue up all the time while questing or even in keep raids depending how things are going. Only thing open offers is the ability to get attscked by some *****(s) only there to kill lower Ranking people because they are to chicken to fight people their own level.


I can't agree with some of you more. I began on an Open RvR realm only to find less intense PvP because people weren't as focused on the core objective areas and scenarios, and despite the high (often full) populations, I saw less action. That wasn't what I was expecting. My impression thus far has been that the people who rolled Open RvR don't actually understand what the core set involves: just as with this guy who equates it with a PvE server, as though WAR even offered such a thing. It shows ignorance and naive assumption (which I was also guilty of). The players I met on the open realms felt like they were practically all childish teens or adults-acting-like-teens, fresh off the Blizzard boat. There were definitely exceptions, but the atmosphere was WoW trade-channel immature. The standard of play was also quite bad: there was less of the teamwork/WAR mentality that I now experience on the Core realms. People really looking for good PvP should head there in my opinion, or strongly consider it. Just my two pence/cents.
#29 Oct 02 2008 at 6:36 AM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
You are right I don't play on an open server it doesn't mean I would not have mind trying but considering all the bullying why bother? You guys use this term carebears for core players insulting people who don't play on an open server why do you care?


First, a HUGE correction - I do not use the term carebears as an insult for core players.

There is nothing wrong with playing on a core server. There is nothing wrong with understanding what you like and don't like and making the right choice. It's a game, so ultimately, pick the option that is the most fun for you.

****, I don't even think everybody should 'try' an open server. Why would they? If they know themselves enough? If they know they don't like having the risk of their careful lead out plan being trashed because of a random pvp encounter? If they know they want a controlled and safe atmosphere to play in? There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, and in fact I applaud them for picking the right server type and having fun, instead of picking the wrong one and ******** and moaning about it.

I reserve the word carebear for a certain type of people - people who seems to have made it some kind of mission to be judgmental on pvper. People who cheers and parade in the streets (forums) every times an anti-pvp solution is designed, even thought they don't even play on the **** pvp server. People who seems to have an almost unhealthy dislike of both the servers and players who in reality have no impact on them whatsoever. In short, people who care entirely to much. People like you.

Quote:
You enjoy being ganked? Thats like saying you enjoy being somebodies nvm I'm not gonna say anything further on this. No thanx you don't need to explain further..


No, the difference here is that I see this as a game and my character as nothing more then a part of the game. I also I'm not so hung up on my time that when I lose some of it, I feel a deep feeling of depression.

When I get ganked, I usually laugh. And then I swear revenge. I get some friends and we hunt the other guy down. Some of my most memorable night in mmorpg started off because I or a friend were ganked.

When a carebear get ganked, he feels all hurt and violated and rush over to the forum to complain about the big mean evil person and where he touched them. ****, there's people who haven't played on any type of 'open' server in any game for years now who still go on and on about how terrible and evil their experience on a pvp server was... get over it won't you?

Yet pvper are the one who aren't well balanced... uh uh.

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In one area your saying maybe its a slow night in your tier then your saying it will prevent ghost towns that occur when everyone is capped. Well what one is it gonna be? You can't say your tier is slow that night and go ahead and say it would prevent ghost towns when everyone is capped. Btw if there are ghost towns why worry about the chicken anyways if everybody is at cap?


The level 40 won't care no.

But the guy still leveling will. And then there's going to be some morons on the forum going 'Nobody ever runs gunbad anymore!' 'Nobody ever takes T2 keep anymore!'. ****, you can't go a week on the wow boards without someone bemoaning the fact that nobody cares about Azeroth anymore and they're just powerleveling through and how it'll only get worse with WotLK.

"I wish people still ran Scholomance!" /rolleye

And Blizzard has even been revamping the old world to try and make it more attractive, more fun and faster.

This is called being smart enough to nip the problem in the bud.

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you wanna go back and mess around in a T2 keep, once again how is this gonna happen if everyone is at cap? I mean remember the ghost town point you were trying to make?


People go where the action is. You open your map and you look for a fight. You ask your allies and friends where the action is. If a bunch of guy decided to go take a T2 keep, you can bet people will be going over to stop it.

It makes the game world bigger.

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Only option I agreed with was make it so once you try to attack a lowbie you turn into a chicken. This does prevent bullying.


It does, and yeah, it would be a better situation then the one we have right now. Except it's so flawed it isn't even funny. A level 4 can now walk over to a level 40 who's doing tome unlock in norca and attack him. If the level 40 defend himself, he gets chickened and killed. If he doesn't, he can't mount because he's in combat, and no matter how long it takes, it'll eventually kill him... unless he runs back to town.

Ironic uh? Now we have a scenario where the low level is 'griefing' the high level. Has humorous as it is, it's not a really good solution.

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So the only valid point you made was because you wanna go back and help friends. So take the chicken out completely for this one thing eh?


Eh why not? The chicken is a terrible idea, terribly implemented. To be blunt - it's a mmorpg, anything that arbitrary limit what players can do is a bad idea.

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With reverse bolstering would you gain xp from it? or renown xp? would that be right? If so why bother having any Ranks in the game. Why not just make it so people stay at rank one and only learn abilities as they go forward.


Yes, no, maybe? Does it really matter?

XP's meaningless once you're at level cap. Renown could be either way - I can see pro and con to both side, and honestly it wouldn't really matter. The idea here is just to prevent the world from shrinking to half it's size once you reach level 40.

I'd personally say reverse bolster people could not Q up for lower level scenario... both again, I can see argument for it. It does kinda suck that you get pushed out of a Scenario's range. I still greatly enjoy Nordenwatch (more then the T2 scenario that's for sure...) yet you only get to do that one for a very short period of time.

Funny thing is, for someone who's so vehemently against the idea of a reverse bolster, you have yet to give one reason why it's a bad idea in the first place. It prevents bullying, but it opens up the possibility for more pvp.

The chicken inhibit actions and RVR. Reverse Bolster would promote it.

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I can't agree with some of you more. I began on an Open RvR realm only to find less intense PvP because people weren't as focused on the core objective areas and scenarios, and despite the high (often full) populations, I saw less action


Please Smiley: lol

Last night I played Scenarios, help push back a Keep Assault and then went to do PQ... in the Badland. One of the many shared by Dwarfs/Greenskins. Didn't take long for order to show up there and we had fights there as well.

We had a level 30 Swordmasters attack me and my shaman (both of us level 23), we kicked his *** twice until he called some friends. Then we ran over to another PQ where there was more Destruction and a light skirmish broke out.

All the while, Scenario were still popping and in the distance, Keep and Objectives were still being attacked.

Less action? Right. The one difference between both server is that one Open, you're never safe, and even a desolated road leading to nowhere or a PQ can be turned into a field of strife in a moment's notice.


Edited, Oct 2nd 2008 10:42am by Tyrandor
#30 Oct 02 2008 at 6:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Warchief Tyrandor wrote:
Less action? Right.


Which server was that? I was online last night and saw nothing like that going on on my Open one. I logged in boredom after 30 minutes. Maybe you got lucky. All I can figure, unless your server is a lot more full than my 'full' server. As I said, the quality of play and general attitude has also been a let-down on the Open realms. There were exceptions, but not many. It felt like the kiddies gathered there (I'm sure you're one of those exceptions though).
#31 Oct 02 2008 at 6:47 AM Rating: Decent
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Warchief Tyrandor wrote:
The one difference between both server is that one Open, you're never safe, and even a desolated road leading to nowhere or a PQ can be turned into a field of strie in a moment's notice.


Meh. I personally believe that is a myth of our own making. In theory, sure, it sounds like that would be the case, but it rarely was. The only thing I miss now about the WoW-style PvP is the ability to chase and harass the newbs that polluted the place. Even on QD, there was never any great 'rush' as I waited in nail-biting suspense for fear of attack.... Very ho-hum.
#32 Oct 02 2008 at 6:50 AM Rating: Excellent
Becafen... which ironically, has a pretty poor population. >_>

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Even on QD, there was never any great 'rush' as I waited in nail-biting suspense for fear of attack.... Very ho-hum.


Can't say I spend much time worrying about when the big order will come over and kick my *** - if I did, I probably wouldn't enjoy it right? :P

However, the threat of a red name walking over the hill and wrecking you or your pq is very real and happens almost consistently.

I had a good 20 kills outside of Scenario/RVR lake yesterday night alone.
#33 Oct 02 2008 at 6:57 AM Rating: Decent
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Warchief Tyrandor wrote:
Becafen... which ironically, has a pretty poor population. >_>


Well there we go then! Maybe low population is the key!

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However, the threat of a red name walking over the hill and wrecking you or your pq is very real and happens almost consistently.

I had a good 20 kills outside of Scenario/RVR lake yesterday night alone.


Oh yes, I know. I know too well. I am just saying I never found it exciting in WoW (despite feeling sure I would), and I haven't found it any more exciting here. I just love going to the RvR objectives and getting lagged by the number of people gathered inside them. I simply have yet to see that on my (full, **** it!) Open one at prime time, which is one reason I'm probably going to give up on it.
#34 Oct 02 2008 at 8:37 AM Rating: Decent
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I very rarely find open pvp on my open server (chaos wastes), most of it happens in scenerios, or in RvR lakes.

I did have some the other day, but thats only because of how close the Orc/Dwarf areas put you to your enemy, if it was say the DE area, if i wanted open pvp i would have to run and wander there quest zone.
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#35 Oct 02 2008 at 9:28 AM Rating: Good
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First, a HUGE correction - I do not use the term carebears as an insult for core players.


Maybe you don't but people use it to say people on Core are not as hardcore. Ok make the case in WoW fine. But WAR is RvR the game throws you into the whole PvP experience. I'm PvPing most of the time. Most of the time I'm q'd up. When ever I see action I go to it.

If my flag is down and someone from the oposite side is in sight with thiers up do I attack them, no if I'm in the mood I'll flag up and let them come to me. If I'm busy questing and I just feel like questing that's what I'm gonna do and leave my flag down. Not you but I remember somebody made a post pretty much about how Open server was the only way to go and if they had a say about it Core wouldn't exist.

Once again maybe that's not how you feel but that is just BS. Sure give me an open server that only people my level range come after me and all would be almost well. Almost well I say because here is the kicker you want the people that love to mess with lowbies to beable to scale down, who says these people won't just group together and just mess with someone questing that is trying to take the lore of the game in, ecspecially in the lower levels people wanna learn the game not be attacked all the time by people who are comfortable and settled into the game.

Reverse ganking ok change that lowbie into a chicken too. If he knows the higher level can't attack then obviously they are being a chicken. maybe we can have a chicken fight Lol.

Yes it is just a game and my toon is part of it but my friend I'm spending money every month to play it and that is real! I don't wanna spend that time not achieving things because of people who go out of thier way to mess with me.

I have nothing against people who play open maybe I'll try it when I feel my core toon is finished. Only thing is if there is no mechinism to deal with the problematic people I feel I wouldn't get my moneys worth.

In conclusion with reverse bolster you will still have a group of people going out of their way to be jerks.
Yes maybe core players don't understand but can you blame them? The ones who are the enemies are the ones who go out of thier way to grief someone they are the ones who made the chicken exist.

#36 Oct 02 2008 at 12:29 PM Rating: Good
A tag-up chicken rule would only be an improvement if it allowed the higher level character to then blamelessly (not chickened) defend themselves against any lowbie(s) that had tagged them.

A chicken rule with that mechanic stops the true ganking. It doesn't prevent quest griefing, taunting etc.. So it depends (I suppose) on what the goals of such a rule really are, and what Mythic's priorities are.
#37 Oct 02 2008 at 12:51 PM Rating: Default
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Thanks for all the responses :)

And, Tyrandor thanks for understanding. Believe it or not Kalligrapher and liljman, some of us like being ganked as much as ganking and this is not just an excuse to hide our malicious nature.

When I started on WoW, I went to a friends PvE server, life was grand, had a 51 hunter and 50 lock. Then a group of my friends convinced me to play on a PvP server and I never looked back.

I still remember some of my first experiences in PvP lowbie areas, spinning my view around to constantly keep a lookout for threats, being camped, narrow escapes etc... it's THRILLING, period.

As for getting griefed/ganked, I was never in a situation I could not get out of...sure this meant, maybe I would have to die several times in the process or move to a different area, but that was life, and yes, I enjoyed it.

Also, I enjoyed learning survival strategies e.g. go to highly contested zones late at night or early in the morning with lower pop., stay off paths/trails, avoid certain areas, quest in or near groups of the same faction, or the old keep my 70 rogue logged nearby etc... This was just part of the conditions of the PvP environment.

As you can see, my perspective is framed with expectations set from my experiences in WoW. Maybe in the OP I shouldn't have put "PvE" but "Core", but WoW PvE is very similar - there are PvP objectives which you can engage in or flag yourself to engage (i.e. safe zones). Perhaps I shouldn't have said "carebears" as sensitive parties take insult and it closes dialogue.

I guess I just feel "open" isn't open enough. It's like Core+ where you have more skirmishes but ironically more "closed" access to the areas.
#38 Oct 02 2008 at 1:19 PM Rating: Good
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snailish, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
A tag-up chicken rule would only be an improvement if it allowed the higher level character to then blamelessly (not chickened) defend themselves against any lowbie(s) that had tagged them.

A chicken rule with that mechanic stops the true ganking. It doesn't prevent quest griefing, taunting etc.. So it depends (I suppose) on what the goals of such a rule really are, and what Mythic's priorities are.


Think of it this way, if you are high rank your in the area for a few things 1 being helping friends, 2 tome unlocks and 3 your showing off your cool high level stuff.

The first one if your with a friend or friends and some lowbie comes by and hits you they turn into a chicken. If the high rank swings back he turns into a chicken, either way the lowbie that was trying to be a ganker can now be swung upon by the higher ranking guys' friend(s) that he was helping to quest because his friends would be in the same rank range as the lowbie wannabe ganker.

As for tome unlocks no need to worry because all lowbies will turn into a chicken if they swing on you. just don't swing back.

As for quest griefing no need for the high level to worry because he is doing quest in higher areas. The lowbie wanna be ganker can't mess with the high ranking guy from taking in the lore of the game.

lastly showing off your nice gear. Your in a camp or something where lowbie gankers can't touch you therefor you don't need to woory if your friends are around or not to kill the lowbie chicken for you.
#39 Oct 02 2008 at 1:35 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Meh. I personally believe that is a myth of our own making. In theory, sure, it sounds like that would be the case, but it rarely was. The only thing I miss now about the WoW-style PvP is the ability to chase and harass the newbs that polluted the place. Even on QD, there was never any great 'rush' as I waited in nail-biting suspense for fear of attack.... Very ho-hum.


Heh, it's not a myth. I said at least 5 times on vent last night "Oh sh*&, I'm getting wrecked" followed by a furious skirmish in a PQ where I was minding my own business. In, short, it was fantastic. It is the singular reason why I play open and can never play core. Again, the Greenskin/Dwarf area's cross over SO much it would be ashame to see an Orange player.

All that said, I really don't care what anyone plays. I play what I want to play and I hope everyone else does too. This isn't politics, what everyone does on X server doesn't have any bearing on you. They aren't having more fun than I am, and I'm not having more fun then they are.

So get back in the game and quit getting in this silly grass is greener arguments.
#40 Oct 02 2008 at 1:43 PM Rating: Good
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Hegemonik wrote:


Believe it or not Kalligrapher and liljman, some of us like being ganked as much as ganking and this is not just an excuse to hide our malicious nature.



If you like being ganked that's fine as long as your having fun I guess but you just proved the point that open is about being ganked or doing the ganking. It adds nothing to WAR for people who like core so they should not be dubbed as a softy or should I say carebear.

Should I be dubbed as a carebear because I don't like to be ganked or to gank others in a game? Maybe I'm miss understanding what the meaning of carebear is but I know I'm not one. If you knew me you would know from experiencing some of the brawls I've been in my life time and you would realize being on a core or open server doesn't define what a person truely is.
#41 Oct 02 2008 at 1:58 PM Rating: Good
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Should I be dubbed as a carebear because I don't like to be ganked or to gank others in a game? Maybe I'm miss understanding what the meaning of carebear is but I know I'm not one. If you knew me you would know from experiencing some of the brawls I've been in my life time and you would realize being on a core or open server doesn't define what a person truely is.


I really can't believe you care that much about what people on the interweb call you. No, you're not a Carebear, you don't deserve to be a carebear, you're a Snork.

I'm just joking btw

Edited, Oct 2nd 2008 3:53pm by baelnic
#42 Oct 02 2008 at 3:06 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:

I really can't believe you care that much about what people on the interweb call you. No, you're not a Carebear, you don't deserve to be a carebear, you're a Snork.

I'm just joking btw



Can I be a smurf? :)

Edited, Oct 2nd 2008 7:21pm by liljman
#43 Oct 02 2008 at 3:22 PM Rating: Good
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Smurf you!
#44 Oct 02 2008 at 6:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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yesh, but more danger plz!! <---*********

Go in the other half of your zone. You mentioned tome unlocks, I have several from Tier 1 zones, including not just title unlocks but item unlocks as well, that involved going to the "enemy" half of the zone. On an open server this not only involves avoiding SIGNIFICANTLY greater numbers of other players who will happily kill you solo or in a group, but NPCs that will very happily one shot you with their 30,000 DPS attacks.

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I think this idea is pretty lame and higher lvl toons should be able to not only access lower level areas, but kill the newbies as well :)

A) You gain nothing from this other than feeling better after getting beat up at school.

B) To most people, (yes, I said most, not many, not some, but most. I meant it too. MOST PEOPLE.) this happening on a regular basis is a reason to quit the game. There are more "carebear" servers than "hardcore" servers for an extremely good reason.
#46 Oct 04 2008 at 3:06 PM Rating: Decent
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The chicken rule is very silly..I was on my alt being camped by a level 20 i was lvl 5 at the time..so after 10mins of "fun". i went to go get my main a level 30.. i zone in and bam im a chicken and i can not defend my self from a level 20 camping a level 5 toon..Seems fair imO... NOT.
#47 Oct 04 2008 at 3:43 PM Rating: Good
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Ofock wrote:
The chicken rule is very silly..I was on my alt being camped by a level 20 i was lvl 5 at the time..so after 10mins of "fun". i went to go get my main a level 30.. i zone in and bam im a chicken and i can not defend my self from a level 20 camping a level 5 toon..Seems fair imO... NOT.

and that supposed to be agaisnt the rule? if the rule was in full effect that couldnt have happened either.
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#48 Oct 04 2008 at 7:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Well masterofwar since its not in full effect as you say it it the fact that 20's can camp lowbies and said lowbies can not get help from say the only person on atm in his guild is 25, then that said lowbie is SoL. The rule as it is, is just silly making the level cap lower doesnt change anything,
might as well make make the cap be level 1 so its fair for all people.
#49 Oct 04 2008 at 8:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Ofock wrote:
Well masterofwar since its not in full effect as you say it it the fact that 20's can camp lowbies and said lowbies can not get help from say the only person on atm in his guild is 25, then that said lowbie is SoL. The rule as it is, is just silly making the level cap lower doesnt change anything,
might as well make make the cap be level 1 so its fair for all people.

lowering the lvl cap would make it so high lvls cant camp the low levels, so saying that it wont change anything is whats silly.
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#50 Oct 04 2008 at 8:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Well im playing on an open server and all your bragging about killing lowbies will ruin the game for some people. Dont forget we welcome new players to join and want them to stay,. killing them off and camping them questing is just annoying .
Its diffficult allreaqy to play an quest as it is and if you need to justify you ego and kill low level players then take the chicken or join a que.


If you want excitement join the good guys and level a toon , it seems to be heavy on destruct players at the moment. So far i have had many a band of players ravaging camps and quest areas. All keeps are destruction owned. You want that thrill of a challenge then join a low pop side and try to gank lowbies ....
#51 Oct 04 2008 at 10:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Tyrandor wrote:
Less action? Right. The one difference between both server is that one Open, you're never safe, and even a desolated road leading to nowhere or a PQ can be turned into a field of strife in a moment's notice.


After reading this I started to long for that very same thing. I loved the danger aspect of pvp servers on wow. You almost made me regret not going open server Tyr! (I don't have anything against it, for some reason I just didn't pick one)


But the truth is, I craved that danger feeling in WoW because leveling was such a bore that anything that would shake things up a bit was desirable.

There's been a few times that I was doing some PQs and saw some orange colored order run by and just wishing I could blast them. I've ran into a few with their flag on though.

But those moments are actually rare, because I'm usually so caught up in doing scenarios or keep sieges with my guild that I don't mind not getting that 1 little more bit of pvp out in the open. In fact, I PVP so much I have to FORCE myself to stop, and catch up on those quests, and I guess for now, I'm slightly enjoying being able to relax and do some PQs or something. Though I do tend to turn my flag on anyway... I guess I can't always stay away.

Edited, Oct 5th 2008 2:27am by Webjunky
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