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Level 99 R/M/E and WoE Weapons Follow

#152 May 22 2013 at 3:54 PM Rating: Good
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UNCTGTG wrote:
If I am reading into it, the revamp will be straight up damage increase no trial needed for 99 and above.
I can't imagine that it would just be a free upgrade. It will probably be another fetch quest involving Adoulin content in some way. It's hard to say what it'll be but if it's too easy or too hard, people will complain about it passionately.
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#153 May 22 2013 at 4:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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I understood the adjust to mean that there would be no additional trials. This is what I expected since their original announcement did not mention any extra trials.

If you went through the pain to obtain a lv99 relic, then your lv99 relic will once again be relevant.

Edited, May 22nd 2013 5:08pm by xypin
#154 May 22 2013 at 4:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Delve weapons are a piece of cake to get. I spent a good 6 hrs joining various parties to get my clears from NMs then I spent a few more hrs joining fracture farming and got my 30k plasma. Really not hard. So for the revamp with 0 trials at 99 is fair enough.

Edited, May 22nd 2013 6:35pm by UNCTGTG
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#155 May 22 2013 at 6:05 PM Rating: Good
There will probably some quest or requirement, but it won't be a long drawn out one like collecting two hundred Nakuul toenails.
#156 May 22 2013 at 7:48 PM Rating: Default
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There is no trial, just if you have a 99 u will have a new shiney
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#157 May 22 2013 at 9:34 PM Rating: Good
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Is it weird that I'm starting to like the director a lot more than I like the playerbase itself? I'm not really comfortable with this, yet I find myself sympathizing with him and having to deal with a decade of badly designed legacy events and items and trying to find a balance that lets him introduce new content without making people that refuse to let the status quo change ragequit.
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#158 May 22 2013 at 10:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Erecia wrote:
Is it weird that I'm starting to like the director a lot more than I like the playerbase itself? I'm not really comfortable with this, yet I find myself sympathizing with him and having to deal with a decade of badly designed legacy events and items and trying to find a balance that lets him introduce new content without making people that refuse to let the status quo change ragequit.


It's not weird if you accept that 99 R/E/M is not a decade of content. These levels of weapons are actually pretty new. But then again so was Skirmish and it took all of 3 weeks for that to become obsolete.
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#159 May 22 2013 at 11:14 PM Rating: Good
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I honestly think they should boost the 85, 90 and 95 versions as well. People still put more work in than what delve apparently required (as long as you got in before 20 minute NM) - obviously the boost should not be as much, but it would be silly to MASSIVELY upgrade 99 and not scale up other "complete" stages as well.
#160 May 23 2013 at 7:14 AM Rating: Decent
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So all the people who collected several 85/90 empyreans are stuck with the prospect of spending hundreds of millions of gil to make them worth more than something to decorate your mannequin with? Seems legit Smiley: nod

Using empyrean weaponskills on any weapon of the same type? That won't break anything Smiley: rolleyes

I like this Matsui guy though. It takes balls to release an expansion and obsolete 75% of the content in an update a month laterSmiley: laugh
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#161 May 23 2013 at 10:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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They are gonna need to do something else with regard to empyreans, because in the current state of vastly diminished interest in Voidwatch, finishing the HMPs and dross/cinders is going to prove too difficult.
#162 May 23 2013 at 11:21 AM Rating: Excellent
Well, one of the biggest draws of the Empyrean weapon/weaponskills was the aftermath. Without the aftermath, they were still good weaponskills, but not insanely powerful by any means. Look at things like Tachi: Fudo vs. Tachi: Shoha, Victory Smite vs. Shijin Spiral/Stringing Pummel, etc, and you'll see that giving other weapons the Empyrean weaponskills won't be that huge of a power shift.
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#163 May 23 2013 at 2:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Professor Shock Vlorsutes wrote:
Well, one of the biggest draws of the Empyrean weapon/weaponskills was the aftermath. Without the aftermath, they were still good weaponskills, but not insanely powerful by any means. Look at things like Tachi: Fudo vs. Tachi: Shoha, Victory Smite vs. Shijin Spiral/Stringing Pummel, etc, and you'll see that giving other weapons the Empyrean weaponskills won't be that huge of a power shift.


I'd be inclined to agree that the aftermath are what makes empyrean weapons unique, but you now have to factor in that these weapons will have to be at level 99 to compete.

Masamune (90): 114 DMG +15 STR Aftermath: ODD

Tsurumaru: 243 DMG ACC+ 35 ATK+25 "Save TP"+ 25%

The latter might as well have "Aftermath: Always deals double damage".

There are a few R/M/E that are more for utility than damage, but for the most part the new weapons blow the empyreans away. Speculating here, but if the pattern of the Delve weapons being slightly stronger than R/M/E even after adjustments holds up; unlocking empyrean weaponskills for all weapons of a specific weapon type will only widen the gap. Out of the total number of empyrean weapons that are 85 or higher, the total number that are 99 is incredibly small.

Oh well, I guess on the bright side nobody took issue with any aspect of WoE or VW and they are still wildly popular Smiley: sly

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#164 May 24 2013 at 9:07 PM Rating: Good
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What happens to 85/90 empy holders is certainly a matter of concern. A 90 Ukon was good enough to get a WAR into almost any content pre-SoA. I was never turned away from VW shouts, NNI groups, Salvage II groups, etc. Legion groups shunned me, but everybody else was glad to have me. I sit on about 2M gil most of the time. I'm not rich. I don't have the means to 95 my Ukon. 110M for HMP is just out of the question, especially with VW dieing and HMP becoming harder to come by. So when 99 empys get brought up to par, I'll be left behind. I'll go from being welcome into almost any group to being an undesirable. That sucks. The obvious responce is "well get a Bloodbath then", but the Delve groups don't want a 90 Ukon WAR. I feel like I'm being pushed out...being made irrelevant.
#165 May 25 2013 at 8:22 AM Rating: Good
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CorncobWilly wrote:
What happens to 85/90 empy holders is certainly a matter of concern. A 90 Ukon was good enough to get a WAR into almost any content pre-SoA. I was never turned away from VW shouts, NNI groups, Salvage II groups, etc. Legion groups shunned me, but everybody else was glad to have me. I sit on about 2M gil most of the time. I'm not rich. I don't have the means to 95 my Ukon. 110M for HMP is just out of the question, especially with VW dieing and HMP becoming harder to come by. So when 99 empys get brought up to par, I'll be left behind. I'll go from being welcome into almost any group to being an undesirable. That sucks. The obvious responce is "well get a Bloodbath then", but the Delve groups don't want a 90 Ukon WAR. I feel like I'm being pushed out...being made irrelevant.


Add to that, Skirmish is simply not done and even if you got a well augmented GA out of it the people who don't want your 90 Ukon don't want your Skirmish weapon either. Instead of coming on a DD job that would be perfectly fine for farming plasm and that you've treated with care, you need to go out and half-*** a support job so you can get in. Sure you'll drag down the plasm rate more than if you came on your 90-emp WAR, but the shouters probably won't care. They're far too "smart" to see how stupid they really are.

Edited, May 25th 2013 10:23am by Camiie
#166 May 25 2013 at 10:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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Fynlar wrote:
They are gonna need to do something else with regard to empyreans, because in the current state of vastly diminished interest in Voidwatch, finishing the HMPs and dross/cinders is going to prove too difficult.


They want to keep Reives relevant? 1 HMP = 5~10K Bayld. If they're truly honest about altering Colonization Reives so that they're going to be truly low-mannable without say an OChain to hold all of the adds off to the side it'll make an incentive to continue to do them. That and it'll also generate a way to continue to get HMP without having to deal with Voidwatch (that's all but dead for most servers outside of the rare shouts nowadays).

10K bayld per plate? Seems more than reasonable, and the occasional AH item you get from the reives would allow you to slowly purchase more over time.

Of course, this could just be the pain meds talking but this method seems to make the most sense to me at attempting to appease both Empy holders as well as keeping SoA launch content relevant.

Edited, May 25th 2013 12:59pm by Viertel
#167 May 25 2013 at 11:16 AM Rating: Good
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Viertel wrote:
They want to keep Reives relevant? 1 HMP = 5~10K Bayld.


I don't think you're wrong, but tying old content to new content always seems to end badly. It wasn't much fun farming pictures to do ZNM, after all.
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#168 May 25 2013 at 11:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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Camiie wrote:

Add to that, Skirmish is simply not done and even if you got a well augmented GA out of it the people who don't want your 90 Ukon don't want your Skirmish weapon either. Instead of coming on a DD job that would be perfectly fine for farming plasm and that you've treated with care, you need to go out and half-*** a support job so you can get in. Sure you'll drag down the plasm rate more than if you came on your 90-emp WAR, but the shouters probably won't care. They're far too "smart" to see how stupid they really are.

Edited, May 25th 2013 10:23am by Camiie


I found it funny that I couldn't for the life of me enter events on the jobs I've spent the most time gearing up like RDM or DNC, but jobs that I haven't bothered gearing up like WHM seems to get a free ticket.
#169 May 26 2013 at 8:45 AM Rating: Good
Solonuke wrote:
Camiie wrote:

Add to that, Skirmish is simply not done and even if you got a well augmented GA out of it the people who don't want your 90 Ukon don't want your Skirmish weapon either. Instead of coming on a DD job that would be perfectly fine for farming plasm and that you've treated with care, you need to go out and half-*** a support job so you can get in. Sure you'll drag down the plasm rate more than if you came on your 90-emp WAR, but the shouters probably won't care. They're far too "smart" to see how stupid they really are.

Edited, May 25th 2013 10:23am by Camiie


I found it funny that I couldn't for the life of me enter events on the jobs I've spent the most time gearing up like RDM or DNC, but jobs that I haven't bothered gearing up like WHM seems to get a free ticket.



It's silly really but basicly it comes down to. If you have an average dancer verse an average gear war. The war wins. Most people don't want to take the chance that you might happen to have a amazingly geared harder to spec out/have to work harder to perform jobs.

I had a top tier pup at 75. Didn't stop people passing it up for a warrior that tp'd in str rings and mained a great axe you got form one of the first 3 ranks of campaign.
#170 May 26 2013 at 12:07 PM Rating: Decent
What I don't like is I now have 4 90 empyrean weapons(that will be totally useless once I get delve weapons) that are just going to be taking up inventory space because getting them to 99 is just not realistic for me. I can get all the delve weapons faster and at a much cheaper price.(free)
#171 May 26 2013 at 12:36 PM Rating: Decent
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jakarai wrote:
What I don't like is I now have 4 90 empyrean weapons(that will be totally useless once I get delve weapons) that are just going to be taking up inventory space because getting them to 99 is just not realistic for me. I can get all the delve weapons faster and at a much cheaper price.(free)
What don't you like about your situation? If you don't have the means to 99 your weapons, then there is a viable alternative that also happens to be less effort overall.

I happen to think that any upgrade to 99 weapons will not be free. Just because it won't involve the magian system doesn't mean the upgrade won't require some work. If people with 99's had to fetch or defeat something difficult in order to upgrade their weapon, would you feel better?
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#172 May 26 2013 at 2:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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detlef wrote:
jakarai wrote:
What I don't like is I now have 4 90 empyrean weapons(that will be totally useless once I get delve weapons) that are just going to be taking up inventory space because getting them to 99 is just not realistic for me. I can get all the delve weapons faster and at a much cheaper price.(free)
What don't you like about your situation? If you don't have the means to 99 your weapons, then there is a viable alternative that also happens to be less effort overall.

I happen to think that any upgrade to 99 weapons will not be free. Just because it won't involve the magian system doesn't mean the upgrade won't require some work. If people with 99's had to fetch or defeat something difficult in order to upgrade their weapon, would you feel better?


I think the problem that most people have is that they went into the magian trial system knowing where they would be when they came out. It was a nice option to get an 85 or 90 empyrean even if you didn't have the means to get a fully upgraded weapon. Oddly, Delve is still a better option at a much smaller investment in terms of time and money even if you did have the means to upgrade R/M/E. It doesn't bother me personally, but it does strike me as a little odd.

When people were upset by the discrepancy between the effort necessary to upgrade emypreans beyond 90, the sentiment from SE was "That's the price you pay for ultimate power". Fair enough. Can't really argue with that. Now that Delve outclasses R/M/E on every level (and while still speculative, probably even after the adjustments to 99 R/M/E), that pretty much went out the window(along with everyone's weapons).
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
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