TybudX wrote:
******** about the difficulty of content on a forum isn't going to make you win any more than you are now. Meanwhile, there's a bunch of players who went out and got it done.
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Just in case you were not aware, Seriha no longer plays FFXI, I believe.
xypin wrote:
TybudX wrote:
******** about the difficulty of content on a forum isn't going to make you win any more than you are now. Meanwhile, there's a bunch of players who went out and got it done.
Correct, though I'm sure they'd love to imply it disqualifies from commenting on the logistics of playing while still keeping up on information with the intent of whether or not I'd like to play again.
The only time the "you" tirade of his works is if it's a solo only affair. Can't beat Maat? All you. Can't beat alliance content? Well, there are 17 individuals that contribute their own weight, for better or worse. Yet I'm also mindful that part of the issue is actually being able to participate, meaning the ability to win or lose is still unknown. More bodies required always translates to more complications in arranging a run, be it a scheduled LS event or a shout PUG. So, sure, it's easy to say it's "you" when the stars don't align and you can't find 17 people with the right jobs in the hour or two you might get to play on a given day, but that's also no justification for "you" to have nothing meaningful to do to advance your character. Should XI's future endgame be a long string of alliance content, it's simply not going to play well with a good number of people. And it's better to be cautious of that now than it is a year later, wondering why the servers seem so empty.
Edit: Now, a lot of this could be alleviated if SE looked into better "Looking For..." tools and even implemented cross-server technology. It's not an outright fix for making content access too restricted, but it does improve the odds of getting people with more varied schedules together. Still, I'd prefer multiple paths to the same destination, even if it just meant more magian trials for the alternative.
Edited, Apr 25th 2013 1:07pm by Seriha
Violence good. Sexy bad. Yay America.
Abyssea is a <6 person event.
Voidwatch is an 18 person event (many fights can easily be done with less).
High Kindred Crest fights are 6 person events.
Legion is an 18 persion event.
NNI is a 6 persion event.
Neo-Salvage is a 6 person event.
Neo-Limbus (Apollyon) is a 6 person event. (can't comment on Tenemos)
Neo-Einherjar is a 18 person event.
Meebles is a 6 person event.
Skirmish is a <6 person event.
Most reives are solo/small group content.
Wildskeeper Reives are 18 person event
Long string of 18 person content we have going here. I know, you're saying "be cautious" with your claim, but even if you exclude Abyssea, as the years have gone forward, SE has given a good share of both 6-man and 18-man content. Your worries about this game being dominated by 18 player content is unfounded at this point.
Edited, Apr 25th 2013 12:21pm by xypin
Voidwatch is an 18 person event (many fights can easily be done with less).
High Kindred Crest fights are 6 person events.
Legion is an 18 persion event.
NNI is a 6 persion event.
Neo-Salvage is a 6 person event.
Neo-Limbus (Apollyon) is a 6 person event. (can't comment on Tenemos)
Neo-Einherjar is a 18 person event.
Meebles is a 6 person event.
Skirmish is a <6 person event.
Most reives are solo/small group content.
Wildskeeper Reives are 18 person event
Long string of 18 person content we have going here. I know, you're saying "be cautious" with your claim, but even if you exclude Abyssea, as the years have gone forward, SE has given a good share of both 6-man and 18-man content. Your worries about this game being dominated by 18 player content is unfounded at this point.
Edited, Apr 25th 2013 12:21pm by xypin
Telaki wrote:
ChaChaJaJa wrote:
I, the "elitist douchebag" fall into category [a]. I also have a 60+ hour a week job and friends and a full life outside of FFXI. My playtime during weekdays is almost nonexistant (I might farm for an hour or two here of there).
And throwing out that you work 60+ hours a week, having accomplished what you have. While maintaining a life outside ffxi. You might as well have said I'm better than you (rhetorical you). Why would you say this other than epeen?
If you can't figure it out still maybe you should reread this post.
You missed my point entirely and decided to interpret it how you wanted, but GG on assuming, it's always the best and most accurate way to go about things.
My point was this. Seriha's argument is that progression takes too long and creates a divide between players who have different amounts of playtime. And I am countering with the idea that progression doesn't take as awfully long as you guys make it out to seem. I threw out my playtime because I took a five year break and got caught up in a few months. And I don't live in my mom's basement, nor do I play 30-40 hours a week. I have a normal person's life. I wasn't trying to make myself out to be better than anyone else. Quite the opposite. I don't think of myself as some elite player at all. I know my main job pretty well and have a ways to go on relearning the game based on all that's changed since 2008. I'm average on all counts. Realistically, the only "hard to obtain" piece of gear I had when I started NNI was an Empy Gaxe. I didn't have any big name expensive AH gear either. I had Abyssea gear. Noone else in my static was rocking any crazy gear either. Our gear isn't what allowed us to win. There is no magic secret or uberleetz gear that prevents "casuals" from winning. Make a static and run it until you get good. Why is it such a travesty to suggest that people try something a few times to get better at it?
So, for those of you who need it spelled out- my argument is that progression isn't the Mount Everest you make it out to be. It takes some time, yes, but it's not UNREASONABLE in size. SE already nerfs there content. They nerf it over time just like they have done for the entire past decade. They nerf anything that becomes a roadblock for people. The first major example I can think of was CoP battles getting nerfed, and the most recent was NNI (although, as was pointed out, this was linked largely to the Embrava nerf. But it made the content infinitely more viable for group combos that didn't have 2x SCH available). Based on past precedent I'm sure they will continue to do so. The main issue isn't time of progression its the fact that the game is a decade old. This is what creates the gaps, not difficulty of content, time sinks, or "hardcore/elitists" being unwilling to play with or help out "casuals" and new players. It's so ironic how you guys keep attacking us over and over about being judgemental when you guys are the one forming opinions based solely on stereotyping people with whom you've never played one minute of the game with. It's certainly ironic.
Emphasis on the "future endgame" portion as prior seemed more interested in sidegrades once the 99 cap had settled in a bit.
Eventually, progression should hit a point where where you exclude everything before Skirmish, except maybe Abyssea since Emp gear has job-specific buffs. What comes after WRs and Delve? If it's 6-man, will you need gear from Delve? That still leaves the alliance requirement problematic for certain individuals. More alliance-only affairs? Same problem x2.
Do we trust SE to add readily available gear so players behind the times don't have to Delve? I'm skeptical. I've also been burnt on numerous other games where the devs expect people to slog through dated content just to play catch up and never really make it. Some may readily recognize that as the gear treadmill. Lots of running, never catching up. So, you could say I don't want to see that happen to XI. I'm basically challenging SE to do a better job of keeping people closer together and not spreading them out. Expansions are a good time to do this. Level cap increases, too, but I wouldn't expect that anytime soon.
Eventually, progression should hit a point where where you exclude everything before Skirmish, except maybe Abyssea since Emp gear has job-specific buffs. What comes after WRs and Delve? If it's 6-man, will you need gear from Delve? That still leaves the alliance requirement problematic for certain individuals. More alliance-only affairs? Same problem x2.
Do we trust SE to add readily available gear so players behind the times don't have to Delve? I'm skeptical. I've also been burnt on numerous other games where the devs expect people to slog through dated content just to play catch up and never really make it. Some may readily recognize that as the gear treadmill. Lots of running, never catching up. So, you could say I don't want to see that happen to XI. I'm basically challenging SE to do a better job of keeping people closer together and not spreading them out. Expansions are a good time to do this. Level cap increases, too, but I wouldn't expect that anytime soon.
Violence good. Sexy bad. Yay America.
Akihiko Matsui wrote:
Matsui here.
I plan on giving a detailed explanation of the version update that's around the corner, but before that I would like to focus a bit on how you can participate in Delve.
I'll repeat what I said in my previous post, but the content level of Delve is higher than that of Skirmish and Wildskeeper Reives.
With that said, in order to be the person who initiates Delve, you will need the key items received by defeating Naakuals.
If you are just participating, you will not need the key item; however, the balance of this content has been set on the notion that you have already acquired Skirmish or Wildskeeper Reive class equipment. (Previously, I accidentally said Bayld equipment, I apologize.)
There are three types of Delve items:
• XXX Ygrette
• XXX Yggrete shard
• XXX Yggzi Beads
(The XXX part is different depending on the area.)
Ygrettes are the items you trade for the Yantric Planchette you need to enter the fracture.
Yggrete shards are the items needed to fight NMs above ground.
Yggzi Beads, when attached to the Yantric Planchette, will make it so up to 3 NMs will not spawn in the fracture.
These items can be obtained via Colonization Reives, Lair Reives, and from regular monsters in the following three areas, where there is an entrance to the Delve fracture.
• Ceizak Battlegrounds
• Morimar Basalt Fields
• Foret de Hennetiel
During Delve you will be able to obtain powerful equipment, materials to enhance the equipment you have obtained, and specialized points known as "Mweya Plasm."
Below is what we have envisioned strategy wise for Delve.
1. To start off, you'll have to prepare for the boss monster fight by fighting NMs in the field or in fractures and acquire Mweya Plasm, equipment, and enhancement materials.
2. Once you've enhanced your equipment, join forces with other players and challenge the boss.
Of course, if you feel confident that you have the right firepower, you don't necessarily need to follow the above steps.
While there will be items based on certain drop rates, by continuously taking on Delve, you'll be able to save up Mweya Plasm and exchange it for the item that you want. With that said, you might want to just go ahead and fight the boss with 18 people, or you could just take 6 people to gather Mweya Plasm and enhancement materials. This will vary depending on your objectives.
You can exchange the Mweya Plasm you've obtained for items via the NPC "Forri-Porri" located in West Adoulin (I-10). However, just collecting these points alone will not make it possible to exchange for all the gear on tap. In order to exchange for equipment from bosses you will have to defeat the respective boss once.
Spoilers!
If you have yet to get an emblem for the Inventors Coalition, I suggest voting on it.
The above is just a simple introduction to Delve and we'll be announcing all the specific information on the day of the version update. Also, we are also looking into introducing Delve using a video or such.
In closing, I'd like to mention this again.
Delve is being released with balancing for top players; however, after we release newer end-game content we plan on making adjustments for those players catching up.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/32736-Delve-Deeper-into-Seekers-of-Adoulin!?p=424112#post424112
Edited, Apr 25th 2013 3:18pm by Szabo
I made the decision when I started my master's program to quit my HNMs, and instead play FFXI on my terms, as a "casual." I managed to accomplish a great deal of stuff during my "casual" time - I leveled up 15 more jobs to 99 and geared all twenty of them decently, finished all my WSNM fights, finished low level AF for storyline, and many other things. I even knocked out half an Empyrean and finished my level 95 relic.
During the last year and a half, I never complained about the content I had to miss. I never regretted that I couldn't afford the very best gear, or that my friends were going too slowly with my Empyrean. (Okay, the week my tier II refused to convert to a tier III for four hours straight, I complained, but that was more about SE's unfair random number generator.) I just did different content and considered it a nice break from the HNM treadmill.
I'm lucky, and grateful, that SE had enough casual content for me to be able to continue enjoying and playing the game on my own terms.
During the last year and a half, I never complained about the content I had to miss. I never regretted that I couldn't afford the very best gear, or that my friends were going too slowly with my Empyrean. (Okay, the week my tier II refused to convert to a tier III for four hours straight, I complained, but that was more about SE's unfair random number generator.) I just did different content and considered it a nice break from the HNM treadmill.
I'm lucky, and grateful, that SE had enough casual content for me to be able to continue enjoying and playing the game on my own terms.
Quote:
Do we trust SE to add readily available gear so players behind the times don't have to Delve?
What? What could possibly come up with this limited game engine that could require gear that isn't already in game? We have available capped Haste, decent hit builds, capped PDT, MDT, have acceptable white damage pieces, appropriate WS gear, and most importantly every mage/support job can reach effective levels of skill in order to sufficiently buff/heal any other intelligently geared job in the game. The only things that make this game challenging are unfair mob behaviour (spamming AoE Deathga type stuff) and people not understanding that the reason they were so good in Abyssea is because SE gave them auto-supportga, not auto-win. Ten years in, how hard is it to find a BRD? A COR? A SMN? A healer? stack a few of them together, time your button presses correctly, viola, now all those 'casuals' can have all the gear the 'elites' do.
Why do I feel like I just had to explain a joke to somebody?
Dooom wrote:
BG elitists <3 haste.
Allatards/uber casuals hate elitists.
Allatards/uber casuals hate haste, as valuing it would acknowledge that elitists are right
Allatards/uber casuals hate elitists.
Allatards/uber casuals hate haste, as valuing it would acknowledge that elitists are right
kerberoz wrote:
People don't hate emo kids because they're "misunderstood." People hate emo kids because they're useless.
Realix wrote:
PUP is an average to above average DD... when not in a zerg situation... or on particularly hard targets... and when properly configured... on windsday... with a RDM...
Dirty casual reporting in.
I dink around on BST mostly these days. I haven't done any NNI, and only limited amounts of SoA. I do Voidwatch on occasion (on jobs other than BST, of course). I have a few friends who just came back to the game, and I'm slowly getting them up to speed on 99 caps and Empyrean armor. Mostly I make gil.
I don't feel like I need any NNI/delve equipment. Would it be nice? Sure, but I'm fully capable of playing the game without it. I don't feel particularly oppressed and angry that I don't get NNI equipment. Nobody's ever commented in the VW runs I've done that I'm incapable and incompetent without it. My friends aren't up to speed enough yet to start NNI, and I'm perfectly okay with that. It'll still be there when/if I get around to it. I don't really understand the Us vs. Them mentality on either side. Yeah, shiny equipment is awesome, but it shouldn't spark such hot feelings about content.
Edited, Apr 25th 2013 3:51pm by Altair
I dink around on BST mostly these days. I haven't done any NNI, and only limited amounts of SoA. I do Voidwatch on occasion (on jobs other than BST, of course). I have a few friends who just came back to the game, and I'm slowly getting them up to speed on 99 caps and Empyrean armor. Mostly I make gil.
I don't feel like I need any NNI/delve equipment. Would it be nice? Sure, but I'm fully capable of playing the game without it. I don't feel particularly oppressed and angry that I don't get NNI equipment. Nobody's ever commented in the VW runs I've done that I'm incapable and incompetent without it. My friends aren't up to speed enough yet to start NNI, and I'm perfectly okay with that. It'll still be there when/if I get around to it. I don't really understand the Us vs. Them mentality on either side. Yeah, shiny equipment is awesome, but it shouldn't spark such hot feelings about content.
Edited, Apr 25th 2013 3:51pm by Altair
Altair wrote:
I don't really understand the Us vs. Them mentality on either side.
That's because it is an incomprehensible argument from someone who doesn't play anymore and/or trolling us.
Only one side of the "us vs. Them" you refer to is making this divide.
The "other side" (What I referred to as A type before) is simply saying that it is nice to have the devs design one event to be progressive, meaning it is intended for people who already beat the 10+ years of other content, but especially the last 2 months of content.
The "other side" is surprised that this is an issue for the first since there is already a wealth of content, including brand new content, designed for the "Us" group and intended for a more casual audience.
The "other side" is particularly surprised that the main advocate for this argument appears to be someone who is not currently a customer, has not been for some time now, and did not necessarily plan to come back, with or without the significant changes they feel are necessary to transform FFXI into the mythical MMO they want it to be.
Carbuncle
Quote:
Ten years in, how hard is it to find a BRD? A COR? A SMN? A healer?
A lot harder then you think. 90% of your capability is based on the people you play with, if you play in a different time zone or your life has moved in a direction that prevents you from playing in the same circle of people that others play in you will find that getting support crew is indeed hard. I know this firsthand as I play in JST yet do not speak Japanese. If certain members of my circle are around then things seem easy as amongst them are capable support crew. Heck I have access to one of the best BRD's in FFXI yet he's rarely on at the same time so I am forced to do things with /sh people who may or may not have the appropriate jobs / experience.
Also what you posted is not selectable difficulty level. Selectable difficulty is when you go to initiate content (instanced in most games) you chose one of two to three difficulty levels.
EX: (Assuming contend can be done once per day)
Lowest has a 25% chance of a drop occurring and is designed for 3 or less people. The boss has less HP and most of it's devastating moves are locked. The drop is limited to one slot and there are four possible "wanted" drops with an assortment of crafting items thrown into the mix.
Middle: 50% chance of slot 1 dropping, 25% chance of slot 2. Slot 1 is guaranteed to be one of those four wanted drops, slot 2 is the same as the lowest difficulty. Boss has more HP and many of it's moves have been unlocked. Designed for a full party of decently geared players.
Hard: 100% chance of slot 1 dropping (guaranteed of the four wanted items), 50% chance of slot 2, 15% chance of slot 3 (identical to slot 2). Boss has high HP and all its devastating cheap moves have been unlocked. Designed for an alliance of well geared players.
Now people can play with the drop rates for balance but the general idea is that everyone can participate and acquire the same loot. Going in a skilled group on hard will guarantee you more drops and possibly earn you special titles or more points. Point based systems work the best for this but in order for them to work the exclusive gear from the boss's needs to be accessible for all difficulty levels. You can't have the "hard" boss drop a TA+5% DA+10% ring while the "easy" boss drops a TA+1% DA +2% one. That creates a schism of "haves" and "have nots" similar to what NNI did.
It doesn't occur to you to be the BRD (or whatever)?
Dooom wrote:
BG elitists <3 haste.
Allatards/uber casuals hate elitists.
Allatards/uber casuals hate haste, as valuing it would acknowledge that elitists are right
Allatards/uber casuals hate elitists.
Allatards/uber casuals hate haste, as valuing it would acknowledge that elitists are right
kerberoz wrote:
People don't hate emo kids because they're "misunderstood." People hate emo kids because they're useless.
Realix wrote:
PUP is an average to above average DD... when not in a zerg situation... or on particularly hard targets... and when properly configured... on windsday... with a RDM...
Quote:
(although, as was pointed out, this was linked largely to the Embrava nerf. But it made the content infinitely more viable for group combos that didn't have 2x SCH available)
Again, HQ Nyzul was barely touched this past update. The most significant "nerfs" they made to it was making floor jumps 2-11 instead of 2-9, and giving multilamps less of a delay.
This update didn't make it more viable for non-Embrava setups; they made people *default* to non-Embrava setups now because Embrava is now a piece of sh*t for anything other than a zerg fight. People now have to wait around at the start of more floors to receive their BRD/COR buffs instead, and even then the melees will likely be of inferior quality+survivability than what they had before with just a couple of Embrava casts for the entire run, which slows things down. The miniscule amount of extra time you might save with mobs being a few levels lower is eaten up just by having inferior Haste+whatever buff options that need to be recasted more frequently.
If you want to make the argument that HQ Nyzul is now "infinitely" more viable for the more standard groups out there, there's still a whole crapload more that needs to be done than what was done in this past update. People are not moving to those other setups because they suddenly work way better than before, they're doing it because the previous go-to setup was nerfed into oblivion and they don't really have any other choice.
Edited, Apr 25th 2013 8:57pm by Fynlar
TybudX wrote:
It doesn't occur to you to be the BRD (or whatever)?
shhh I got a monopoly here
Szabo wrote:
[quote=Akihiko Matsui]
Matsui here.
I plan on giving a detailed explanation of the version update that's around the corner, but before that I would like to focus a bit on how you can participate in Delve.
I'll repeat what I said in my previous post, but the content level of Delve is higher than that of Skirmish and Wildskeeper Reives.
With that said, in order to be the person who initiates Delve, you will need the key items received by defeating Naakuals.
If you are just participating, you will not need the key item; however, the balance of this content has been set on the notion that you have already acquired Skirmish or Wildskeeper Reive class equipment. (Previously, I accidentally said Bayld equipment, I apologize.)
Matsui here.
I plan on giving a detailed explanation of the version update that's around the corner, but before that I would like to focus a bit on how you can participate in Delve.
I'll repeat what I said in my previous post, but the content level of Delve is higher than that of Skirmish and Wildskeeper Reives.
With that said, in order to be the person who initiates Delve, you will need the key items received by defeating Naakuals.
If you are just participating, you will not need the key item; however, the balance of this content has been set on the notion that you have already acquired Skirmish or Wildskeeper Reive class equipment. (Previously, I accidentally said Bayld equipment, I apologize.)
So are we all going to be forced from point A to point B now, or are we going to be able to farm up gear that will be effective in Delve from different sources? What exactly constitutes "Skirmish or Wildskeeper Reive class equipment?"
I'm thinking 99 r/e/m weapons mostly since the other gear while nice it is not game breaking and not that much ahead of other gear where it would make a event harder not having it.
Fynlar wrote:
Quote:
(although, as was pointed out, this was linked largely to the Embrava nerf. But it made the content infinitely more viable for group combos that didn't have 2x SCH available)
Again, HQ Nyzul was barely touched this past update. The most significant "nerfs" they made to it was making floor jumps 2-11 instead of 2-9, and giving multilamps less of a delay.
This update didn't make it more viable for non-Embrava setups; they made people *default* to non-Embrava setups now because Embrava is now a piece of sh*t for anything other than a zerg fight. People now have to wait around at the start of more floors to receive their BRD/COR buffs instead, and even then the melees will likely be of inferior quality+survivability than what they had before with just a couple of Embrava casts for the entire run, which slows things down. The miniscule amount of extra time you might save with mobs being a few levels lower is eaten up just by having inferior Haste+whatever buff options that need to be recasted more frequently.
If you want to make the argument that HQ Nyzul is now "infinitely" more viable for the more standard groups out there, there's still a whole crapload more that needs to be done than what was done in this past update. People are not moving to those other setups because they suddenly work way better than before, they're doing it because the previous go-to setup was nerfed into oblivion and they don't really have any other choice.
Edited, Apr 25th 2013 8:57pm by Fynlar
Ok, let me clarify my point a bit- I'm not saying it clearly perhaps. Your statement is true for any group that is well-geared and has R/M/E weapons because you one shot mobs from floor 1 all the way up with a single ws. However, not everyone is geared like that. My group wasn't geared to the teeth and most did not have R/M/E weapons (I believe I was the only one with an empy when we started). And we had Abyssea gear. The drop in mob levels was significant for my group. The first 40-60 floors were noticeably easier.
Many players don't have R/M/E weapons. This nerf is significant for them. I 100% agree with you that SE took away the easiest option for completing the content (Embrava), but they ALSO (likely as a response) lowered the difficulty of the content. While not a considerable nerf for people who are geared to the teeth and were killing everything with one ws before, it is a considerable nerf for those who weren't.
I get the idea that Embrava allowed you to basically weaponskill nonstop all the way through. I get that. But before you basically had to run with 2 x SCH to get a win. Now, SCH is unnecessary. And even though you can't WS nonstop all the way through, you really don't need to now because the mobs on lower floors are so much squishier (7 - 10 levels squisher). I agree that the net change for people with top notch gear and 2 x SCH was negative. But for other groups (like my group) it was positive. I can't speak for others, but before the update I had one win and since then I have four wins in nine attempts. Small sample size and there may be other factors involved (such as wins = more gear = easier wins etc.), but I'm having a hard time accepting your stance of "dropping mob levels on 80% of event" doesn't make the event easier.
Edited, Apr 26th 2013 10:06am by ChaChaJaJa
I suppose it's more that people are slightly upset over having the value of their things depreciated. Yes, they give out very decent armor and weapons to those "dirty casuals", and yes, regardless of you having 2-3 completed relics and full NNI/Salvage.v2 armor you need to obtain a large amount of the new items as well.
But arent you guys looking at it in the wrong way?
Would you rather have had the game to be a stagnant cesspool of endgamers slowly piling up against a wall at the end of the line, or would you like to see some progress and upgrades being made, as well as things you can work towards again?
I'm not saying they didn't go completely overboard and made easily obtainable items rival, or at the very least come close, to what you have been struggling towards for the past 10 years. I'm not saying that at all. I agree with you. But in a game like this, progress is always preferable to hard set limits that most of the people have already reached.
And this "Delve" is EG content that is probably not suited towards casuals. It almost screams needing to build points, upgrades and repeatedly kill Nakuaals for entry items. I dont see what the fuss is about right now. Wait for it to be released, we'll see then. There's no need to start bashing this.
But arent you guys looking at it in the wrong way?
Would you rather have had the game to be a stagnant cesspool of endgamers slowly piling up against a wall at the end of the line, or would you like to see some progress and upgrades being made, as well as things you can work towards again?
I'm not saying they didn't go completely overboard and made easily obtainable items rival, or at the very least come close, to what you have been struggling towards for the past 10 years. I'm not saying that at all. I agree with you. But in a game like this, progress is always preferable to hard set limits that most of the people have already reached.
And this "Delve" is EG content that is probably not suited towards casuals. It almost screams needing to build points, upgrades and repeatedly kill Nakuaals for entry items. I dont see what the fuss is about right now. Wait for it to be released, we'll see then. There's no need to start bashing this.
[XI] Surivere of Valefor
[XIV] Sir Surian Bedivere of Behemoth
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/2401553/
[XIV] Sir Surian Bedivere of Behemoth
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/2401553/
Camiie wrote:
Szabo wrote:
[quote=Akihiko Matsui]
Matsui here.
I plan on giving a detailed explanation of the version update that's around the corner, but before that I would like to focus a bit on how you can participate in Delve.
I'll repeat what I said in my previous post, but the content level of Delve is higher than that of Skirmish and Wildskeeper Reives.
With that said, in order to be the person who initiates Delve, you will need the key items received by defeating Naakuals.
If you are just participating, you will not need the key item; however, the balance of this content has been set on the notion that you have already acquired Skirmish or Wildskeeper Reive class equipment. (Previously, I accidentally said Bayld equipment, I apologize.)
Matsui here.
I plan on giving a detailed explanation of the version update that's around the corner, but before that I would like to focus a bit on how you can participate in Delve.
I'll repeat what I said in my previous post, but the content level of Delve is higher than that of Skirmish and Wildskeeper Reives.
With that said, in order to be the person who initiates Delve, you will need the key items received by defeating Naakuals.
If you are just participating, you will not need the key item; however, the balance of this content has been set on the notion that you have already acquired Skirmish or Wildskeeper Reive class equipment. (Previously, I accidentally said Bayld equipment, I apologize.)
So are we all going to be forced from point A to point B now, or are we going to be able to farm up gear that will be effective in Delve from different sources? What exactly constitutes "Skirmish or Wildskeeper Reive class equipment?"
Meh. Matsui may SAY that in his dev post, but based on the stats of the Skirmish/Wildskeeper Reive class equipment, I don't think groups who have access to R/M/E melee and good support/mages will have difficulties. I can't imagine that people are going to wipe in Delve and then say to themselves "oh if only I had those Xux Trousers." i think he is overstating the Skirmish/Wildskeeper gear. Sure, there are some nice pieces, but as someone above stated, we already have capped Haste, -pdt, etc. builds, and that gear is not a dealbreaker.
ChaChaJaJa wrote:
Fynlar wrote:
Quote:
(although, as was pointed out, this was linked largely to the Embrava nerf. But it made the content infinitely more viable for group combos that didn't have 2x SCH available)
Again, HQ Nyzul was barely touched this past update. The most significant "nerfs" they made to it was making floor jumps 2-11 instead of 2-9, and giving multilamps less of a delay.
This update didn't make it more viable for non-Embrava setups; they made people *default* to non-Embrava setups now because Embrava is now a piece of sh*t for anything other than a zerg fight. People now have to wait around at the start of more floors to receive their BRD/COR buffs instead, and even then the melees will likely be of inferior quality+survivability than what they had before with just a couple of Embrava casts for the entire run, which slows things down. The miniscule amount of extra time you might save with mobs being a few levels lower is eaten up just by having inferior Haste+whatever buff options that need to be recasted more frequently.
If you want to make the argument that HQ Nyzul is now "infinitely" more viable for the more standard groups out there, there's still a whole crapload more that needs to be done than what was done in this past update. People are not moving to those other setups because they suddenly work way better than before, they're doing it because the previous go-to setup was nerfed into oblivion and they don't really have any other choice.
Edited, Apr 25th 2013 8:57pm by Fynlar
Ok, let me clarify my point a bit- I'm not saying it clearly perhaps. Your statement is true for any group that is well-geared and has R/M/E weapons because you one shot mobs from floor 1 all the way up with a single ws. However, not everyone is geared like that. My group wasn't geared to the teeth and most did not have R/M/E weapons (I believe I was the only one with an empy when we started). And we had Abyssea gear. The drop in mob levels was significant for my group. The first 40-60 floors were noticeably easier.
Many players don't have R/M/E weapons. This nerf is significant for them. I 100% agree with you that SE took away the easiest option for completing the content (Embrava), but they ALSO (likely as a response) lowered the difficulty of the content. While not a considerable nerf for people who are geared to the teeth and were killing everything with one ws before, it is a considerable nerf for those who weren't.
I get the idea that Embrava allowed you to basically weaponskill nonstop all the way through. I get that. But before you basically had to run with 2 x SCH to get a win. Now, SCH is unnecessary. And even though you can't WS nonstop all the way through, you really don't need to now because the mobs on lower floors are so much squishier (7 - 10 levels squisher). I agree that the net change for people with top notch gear and 2 x SCH was negative. But for other groups (like my group) it was positive. I can't speak for others, but before the update I had one win and since then I have four wins in nine attempts. Small sample size and there may be other factors involved (such as wins = more gear = easier wins etc.), but I'm having a hard time accepting your stance of "dropping mob levels on 80% of event" doesn't make the event easier.
Edited, Apr 26th 2013 10:06am by ChaChaJaJa
As someone who had an 85 Ukon for 50% of my NNI wins and a 90 50% Ukon for 50% of my NNI wins pre-nerf it was a lot easier for me as a DD with 2x SCH compared to what I have now, which is a 99 Ukon. I'm finding that the blitz speed is about the same without SCH. (Embrava was nice, but what was really nice was the Regen!!!) Now I'm helping out some friends that are interested in the content and it is a lot easier on early floors but not easier for me. It's a net negative change, as you say, for players very well geared. It is a big net positive change for all the rest. NNI post-nerf is much more widely accessible, and winnable. (By the way it took me about 5 weeks to get my first 100 floor - so yes I do think that it should not just be silver platter fodder. This persistence helped me become a better player and a better teammate, and every single one of my 5 man alliance feels that way. In fact, we're communicating it to the new friends we are helping get through this content - and you know what, they like the challenge.)
Carbuncle
Quote:
they give out very decent armor and weapons to those "dirty casuals"
Nobody gives a **** about this. Nobody. The players being accused of it want challenging content that can't be steamrolled in a couple weeks.
Dooom wrote:
BG elitists <3 haste.
Allatards/uber casuals hate elitists.
Allatards/uber casuals hate haste, as valuing it would acknowledge that elitists are right
Allatards/uber casuals hate elitists.
Allatards/uber casuals hate haste, as valuing it would acknowledge that elitists are right
kerberoz wrote:
People don't hate emo kids because they're "misunderstood." People hate emo kids because they're useless.
Realix wrote:
PUP is an average to above average DD... when not in a zerg situation... or on particularly hard targets... and when properly configured... on windsday... with a RDM...
Poltergeist27 wrote:
Meh. Matsui may SAY that in his dev post, but based on the stats of the Skirmish/Wildskeeper Reive class equipment, I don't think groups who have access to R/M/E melee and good support/mages will have difficulties. I can't imagine that people are going to wipe in Delve and then say to themselves "oh if only I had those Xux Trousers." i think he is overstating the Skirmish/Wildskeeper gear. Sure, there are some nice pieces, but as someone above stated, we already have capped Haste, -pdt, etc. builds, and that gear is not a dealbreaker.
EVERYONE should know that competence, focus, and communication are what beat events, not a few pieces of gear.
I'd like to throw experience in there as well. Many times, this really falls into the other groups, but on occasion, you have events such as NNI where you really need to hammer it out to gain such experience.
Edited, Apr 26th 2013 12:40pm by xypin
#99Viertel,
Posted: Apr 26 2013 at 9:45 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) HINT: If you don't have a R/M/E you shouldn't even be in NNI to begin with. So no, the changes haven't really mattered to people that are appropriately geared to start their journey through NNI, and if you don't have at bare minimum an Empyrean weapon (or OAT/TP Bonus depending on class) you aren't appropriately geared.
Viertel wrote:
HINT: If you don't have a R/M/E you shouldn't even be in NNI to begin with.
Viertel wrote:
ChaChaJaJa wrote:
Ok, let me clarify my point a bit- I'm not saying it clearly perhaps. Your statement is true for any group that is well-geared and has R/M/E weapons because you one shot mobs from floor 1 all the way up with a single ws. However, not everyone is geared like that. My group wasn't geared to the teeth and most did not have R/M/E weapons (I believe I was the only one with an empy when we started). And we had Abyssea gear. The drop in mob levels was significant for my group. The first 40-60 floors were noticeably easier.
Many players don't have R/M/E weapons. This nerf is significant for them.
Many players don't have R/M/E weapons. This nerf is significant for them.
HINT: If you don't have a R/M/E you shouldn't even be in NNI to begin with. So no, the changes haven't really mattered to people that are appropriately geared to start their journey through NNI, and if you don't have at bare minimum an Empyrean weapon (or OAT/TP Bonus depending on class) you aren't appropriately geared.
And no, this isn't some "elitist" jackass commenting. This is the pure truth in that NNI came after Abyssea (and was designed with having that gear in mind), and when you aren't finish with those areas you flat out weren't ready for NNI. It's as moronic as saying a group using full AF or Relic gear suddenly has an easier time when they're using gear that's nowhere appropriate for the event they're entering.
Use common sense.
Fynlar is 100%: the level adjustment has done nothing to alter the difficulty if you were at the right gear level to begin doing NNI in the first place.
NNI is over a year old, so SE is doing the same thing they do to all difficult content as it ages: they nerf it to make it easier for people to get caught up.
Noone was arguing with Fynlar's assessment of NNI for people with R/M/E. I was simply stating that the content has been opened up to more of the game's population. Remember- the discussion started in the context of Seriha wanting SE to make it easier for people to get caught up and I said they already do that. By nerfing old content. The context is kind of important. It morphed out of that discussion.
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