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#27 Jul 15 2012 at 7:12 AM Rating: Good
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ItsAMyri wrote:
As an important addendum, how 'easy' an empy is to make is directly proportional to the amount of helpers you have.

The difficulty of making Kannagi goes like this:
Solo: Semi difficult.
Duo: Very easy.
Trio+: Like duo, just faster.

Picking a Kannagi over a mythic is like winning the lottery IRL, and just saying "no thanks" to the money, instead choosing to win a free hotdog from the convenience store instead.
#28 Jul 15 2012 at 10:23 AM Rating: Good
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That may be true, Reiter, if you do not have things to do in your life and do not value your time.

I could have easily solo'd my Almace, but I could not have quickly solo'd my Almace. The NMs are not all that hard, I solo'd plenty of them during quiet hours when no one was around.

The drop rates without TH suck, the KI rates without 13/13 red procs suck, spawning the NM once rather than several times sucks. Tanking Pantagruel backwards for a minute because Violent Flourish missed and you can't afford to be para'd and miss Moribund Hack sucks. You're looking at a marginal increase in difficulty and an exponential increase in time spent.

If you don't factor in time or efficiency, every single thing in abyssea is easy because you could just farm cruor solo for a few hours and then brew it, eventually getting the drop you need... it's not difficult. ****, it's 'easier' than forming a party and fighting it the normal way! And yet, if you form the party, you'll get procs and TH and some actual drops, and forego the hours of cruor farming...

Y'know, if you have something to do outside within the next month, rather than soloing abyssea NMs from sunup to sundown in a pit of empty cheetos bags.

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In games/cases where your reward often comes at the expense of the effort of other people, it usually should be prioritized.


Implying any of the people who picked a mythic are actually going to make a mythic if they don't win. The kannagi, on the other hand, is something that very likely would be been done eventually, so if you want to boil this down to work saved...

It's not like a mythic can be sold. If you don't want one, what sense does it make to win one just because it's expensive? I imagine a 50 pound ball of guano from an endangered species of bat is quite rare and valuable, but if I didn't have the option of selling it or giving it to someone who needed it, I wouldn't even take it over a quesadilla.

#29 Jul 15 2012 at 12:27 PM Rating: Good
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The effort it takes to get a Mythic to 99 (3 Scoria = ~20mil and 3 Salvage runs) is pretty insignificant compared to the effort it takes to get an Empyrean or Relic to 99. If you are a casual player looking to get a good weapon out of the Bonanza because you don't have time to play, picking anything other than a mythic is just a bad choice. You can get the 95 in two or three days (or within a ~5 hour period with the right preparation and timezone) and plink gil away to get it to 99 on your own time schedule. Gil is not hard to get these days. Your three Salvage runs to get it to 95 will, depending on your zone, server, and luck with pouches, potentially already fund one of your Scoria.

If you look at these weapons as a path to the 99 version, then you're comparing:
Mythic - Costs ~20 mil.
Relic - Costs 2-3 times as much
Empyrean - Costs ten times as much

So a 90 Kannagi is going to stay a 90 Kannagi forever for casual players, especially those too casual to seriously consider making it. Regardless how casual you are, anyone with a bare minimum of competence, a modicum of effort, and two friends can get their Mythic to 95. Given a slightly sustained effort, farming gil for the Scorias really isn't that hard either. If you compare a 99 Mythic to a 90 Empyrean, the 90 Empyrean is rarely (if ever?) better... even when that Mythic is Nagi, which is arguably one of the worst mythics. Choosing Kannagi is not a rational decision unless you are going to play so little with it that you might as well not have entered the drawing in the first place and could have just left it for someone that might actually use it.

I have no doubt that someone like the Kannagi guy will win the Rank 1 prize. I'm really hoping that I can win a Rank 3 prize, but I doubt I will. Best of luck to everyone!

Edited, Jul 15th 2012 2:28pm by Byrthnoth
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#30 Jul 15 2012 at 1:33 PM Rating: Decent
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So ****** I missed this, you have no idea... but then that's what you get when you go into semi-almost-permanent retirement, then find a new playmate.
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#31 Jul 15 2012 at 2:23 PM Rating: Default
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Just to add additional details the Kannagi and the Mythic would both be staying at there 90 version and I'd not be upgrading them unless it was handed to me and I am a mostly solo only kind of guy with no strong ls affiliation making pick up groups for +2 I want/wanted got most 5/5 now for my jobs so I'm not going to get a Kannagi ever, other than through this event or others like it.

ItsAMyri is on to a winner with what they said they get it, also the Nagi would not be used if I won it so would be even more of a waste as I'd not play the job over others by choice and would rather continue my usual spot as Blm, Blu, Whm or Thf.
#33 Jul 15 2012 at 3:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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If you usually don't even play nin, why wouldn't you pick a mandau, tizona or a yagrush, based on those jobs you listed? Just curious.
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#34 Jul 15 2012 at 4:05 PM Rating: Excellent
Okay, despite the feeling that I, too, disagree with choosing something other than a Mythic for Rank 1, I want you guys to stop insulting redpheonix for his choice on the matter. I don't care how stupid or idiotic you may feel it is, I want you to stop. It's not like he could go back and change his choice, so bashing him about it isn't going to change anything this time around anyway. Most of you are capable of approaching a subject in a logical, reasonable fashion, so just do that. I've always asked that if you're going to argue a subject with someone on here, just lay out the information you have available as to why you believe it's better. If they still don't believe or understand your point, just leave it alone. Berating them and insulting them is only going to cause more problems for you, not for them.

Edited, Jul 15th 2012 6:20pm by Vlorsutes
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#35 Jul 15 2012 at 4:33 PM Rating: Good
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zellbaca wrote:
If you usually don't even play nin, why wouldn't you pick a mandau, tizona or a yagrush, based on those jobs you listed? Just curious.


Well Ninja was and still is one of my favourite jobs and 2nd 75 so I've always geared that first and foremost it will also be the job I leave on to have immortalised forever on ffxiah.com so would be nice to have it looking good etc. The reason I tended to not play it these days was because it was normally Blm, Whm, Blu needed for procs and then Thf obviously for treasure hunter is good to have, also it was all maxed out except parrying so made sense to use my time as the other jobs skilling them up and gearing etc.

Ninja is my go to job for getting something killed solo when I don't need or benefit from having Thf for Treasure Hunter and its just an awesome job that I have many fond memories of tanking to 75, it would be nice to have the items you listed for my other jobs but they won't make or break me enough to choose differently.

I don't mind you guys questioning my choice its fine, ordinarily you would be correct in fact you are absolutely right with what you say and I would have acted accordingly and agreed this is just a time where I need to break the mould for my own enjoyment and benefit. Its not something you can calculate, ratify or explain thats probably why it sets off so many alarms and errors in logic and judgement.
#36 Jul 15 2012 at 5:05 PM Rating: Default
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The drop rates without TH suck, the KI rates without 13/13 red procs suck, spawning the NM once rather than several times sucks. Tanking Pantagruel backwards for a minute because Violent Flourish missed and you can't afford to be para'd and miss Moribund Hack sucks. You're looking at a marginal increase in difficulty and an exponential increase in time spent.


And yet, I still see tons of solo NINs on Briareus NMs, and tons of Kannagis out there. Somehow these people are getting it done instead of finding excuses.

Good way to avoid the spikes btw is to just TP on other things and WS the NM. Nobody's gonna bother stealing your NM unless you die, since the KI will go to you anyway if it drops.
#37 Jul 15 2012 at 9:26 PM Rating: Decent
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And yet, I still see tons of solo NINs on Briareus NMs, and tons of Kannagis out there. Somehow these people are getting it done instead of finding excuses.


Either unemployment, high school/college students on summer break, or a slow grind over several months, one or two kills a day.

For someone who isn't lacking either school/a job or a non-digital social-life, soloing an empy is about like soloing a relic: A couple hours a day, you'll get your reward sometime a few months from now, if you still play and keep at it. Some people don't like that, so, they want the lazy route.

I probably could have done better choosing a gil drop in rank 2 than an Ephemeron, but I really don't care to kill Aello seven hundred times to obtain one. (The pulse cell for it has never even touched the AH on my server.)

Quote:
Given a slightly sustained effort, farming gil for the Scorias really isn't that hard either. If you compare a 99 Mythic to a 90 Empyrean, the 90 Empyrean is rarely (if ever?) better... even when that Mythic is Nagi, which is arguably one of the worst mythics.


Could be mistaken, but I feel like Kikoku would be my choice if I was trying to get a ninja weapon out of this.

As an aside, I did choose Tizona for rank one, but I am curious as to whether a 99 Tizona even beats a 90 Almace. Even with the +25% (or more?) boost to Expiacion, I can't see it beating Chant du Cygne, so I feel like the weapon would hinge entirely on the MP proc.

I'd put my money on Almace winning in abyssea and Tizona winning everywhere else, but I do not think mythics are common enough to say with any certainty.
#38 Jul 15 2012 at 10:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't see what the big deal is. You're both as unlikely as each other to actually WIN the thing, so the entire argument is pretty moot. Just pick whichever weapon you happen to like the stats of best, regardless of how 'easy' it is to obtain. After all, at the end of the day its all about doing your job that tiny bit better, not about who's toy glows the most.

Most of my jobs are mages, so I really don't care much for the melee side of things much. That said, I went for a Yagrush for my rank 1 choice simply because of the bonus to Divine Veil. It's a great macro piece for ~na spells even if I rarely use it in melee. Still, I've got so little chance of actually winning it, that I'm not all too bothered by the choices I've made, for better or for worse.

It's all about having fun when all's said and done.
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#39 Jul 16 2012 at 4:58 AM Rating: Default
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Either unemployment, high school/college students on summer break, or a slow grind over several months, one or two kills a day.


Yeah, they must all be total losers irl since you can't get it done that easily, right? Smiley: rolleyes

Edited, Jul 16th 2012 6:58am by Fynlar
#40 Jul 16 2012 at 10:47 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah, they must all be total losers irl since you can't get it done that easily, right?


1) I have an Almace. Just because I recognize that it's hard for people busier than I am to solo doesn't mean I cannot or did not obtain one.

2) Since when are students on break losers?

3) Since when areunemployed people losers, especially when qualified people looking like mad can't even find work?

I'm not calling anyone losers, I'm saying they have more free time to spend on FF. If you only have a couple hours a day and no help, you will spend months making an empy. If you've got nothing going on until August (like me, summer break) and a few friends willing to help, you can get it done in under a week. For me, it took five days, three short sessions and two long (8+ hour) ones.

Your average worker or even student (during the school year) can't spend an entire Thursday monopolizing Gukumatz while the JP are asleep and the NA aren't home yet.

It's important to note that just because it's easy for you and me, that doesn't mean it's easy for the guy working two jobs, the guy whose friends drag him out into the light of day after work, or the girl drowning in her studies.

It's not a difficult concept to understand, but perhaps it is when you want to pretend your virtual accomplishments to be symbols of skill and status rather than time invested.
#41 Jul 16 2012 at 1:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Except you're only playing that thinking one way. It would take that same person years to complete a mythic, so your argument has no relevance to the value in time invested because it is relative.
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#42 Jul 16 2012 at 6:02 PM Rating: Decent
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2) Since when are students on break losers?

3) Since when areunemployed people losers, especially when qualified people looking like mad can't even find work?


You misunderstand me. You were saying that these people can only get their emps done because they don't go to school/work (in other words, insinuating that only no-lifers can get their emps done). I'm telling you that's a load of **** and you should probably just speak for yourself only.
#43 Jul 16 2012 at 7:02 PM Rating: Good
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Meh, someone has to be the loser, and it's not the person with a full time job, I'm telling ya that right now.
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#44 Jul 16 2012 at 8:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's all about having fun when all's said and done.


This is the correct answer. Any other line of thinking just shows a rather skewed perspective imo. Have fun, pick the prize you want, and if anyone has a problem with it tell them they can pay for your sub if they want to decide how you do things.
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#45 Jul 16 2012 at 9:00 PM Rating: Good
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Any other line of thinking just shows a rather skewed perspective imo.
If you have a problem with it then you can pay their subscription fees if you want to decide how they do things.
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#46 Jul 16 2012 at 9:30 PM Rating: Good
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I can't say I approve of this lack of pony avatar.
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#47 Jul 17 2012 at 12:49 AM Rating: Good
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You misunderstand me. You were saying that these people can only get their emps done because they don't go to school/work (in other words, insinuating that only no-lifers can get their emps done). I'm telling you that's a load of sh*t and you should probably just speak for yourself only.


No, you'll have to finish reading before you get your jimmies rustled.

You either have 'no life' (as you put it, not me) OR you have help OR you spend weeks/months grinding 1-2 drops per day.

Some people have things to do, so they can't spend every waking hour for a week soloing pops. Some of these people also don't have helpers who can get them 10+ helms or skins in a two hour stretch.

So what's left for those people? Long-term dedication and a couple helms a day, like a daily dynamis run. Some people don't like that, whatever, they're allowed to not like it. If they want to get their Kannagi next week on a rank one rather than getting it sometime in October doing 1-2 helms/skins/horns a day, why should I be all buttmad about it?

If I spoke 'for myself', I could be another neckbeard mocking people for not having empys because my empy trials were easy as pie. However, I'm capable of realizing that just because I personally had an easy time with something, it does not mean that everyone else will have an easy time with it. It would have easily taken me ten times as long if I did not have help.
#48 Jul 17 2012 at 4:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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so I am seeing people with the costume items out and about... are they staggering when they send through the prizes, or can we assume if there is nothing in our inbox we're big losers?
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#49 Jul 17 2012 at 4:35 AM Rating: Default
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You either have 'no life' (as you put it, not me) OR you have help OR you spend weeks/months grinding 1-2 drops per day.


Hmm, nope, these are not the only options. Try again
#50 Jul 18 2012 at 4:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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If not solo or group then that leaves one other option.
Both. SE have obviously cracked the Heisenberg principle and allow you to play with players who are at the same time both there and not there thus you're technically not playing solo but your not in a group either, but in a quantum superposition.
#51 Jul 18 2012 at 6:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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Olorinus wrote:
so I am seeing people with the costume items out and about... are they staggering when they send through the prizes, or can we assume if there is nothing in our inbox we're big losers?


The Japanese contest is over I believe, which is what you're seeing. They only said that our contest would be over and prizes handed out "sometime in July".
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