Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

Nyzul Uncharted: nice gear, cheater!Follow

#252 Jul 02 2012 at 6:02 PM Rating: Excellent
****
5,745 posts
Melphina wrote:
No matter what you do you lose. S-E holds all the cards, and the player can never win no matter what. That itself is the real problem in my book.

They would never do something like that, would they?

Absolute Virtue hides behind the furniture.
____________________________
Lyonheart, like Eorzia, will be reborn in FFXIV!

FFXI veteran (Lyonheart and Lakiskline of Lakshmi)
1/467 on signed HQ Weskit!!!
#253 Jul 02 2012 at 7:53 PM Rating: Good
Sage
***
3,638 posts
Reiterpallasch wrote:
jtftaru wrote:
This thread was better when it was about cats and dogs.

If you die, your dog will likely lie beside you, ever faithful, possibly until it dies as well.
However, your cat will just eat you. /truestory.jpg

I'm too dead to care either way, and I'd rather my pet survive than die like an idiot.

Incidentally, my current cat is a rescue animal. He, his sister, at least 4 of their siblings, and their mother were locked in a garage in an inner city abandoned house until discovered by people that came to condemn the place. Only he and his sister survived. He was nursed back to health and given away to our family, and is by far and large the sweetest, most loving cat I have ever seen. Whenever I come home to visit, he follows me around and sleeps on my feet when I'm on the computer.
____________________________
http://ereblog.livejournal.com/
Erecia and Ereblog are BACK, baby!
#254 Jul 02 2012 at 8:48 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
****
4,864 posts
Banalaty wrote:
Easy fix. Get SE to ban everyone with windower. Then the 3 people that dont use it can live in happy hippie land with no cheaters and still ***** about ps2 limitations because ps2s are all thats left. You can have the imaginary tight knit community because only cheaters are pricks and those that remain after The Windower Rapture would be wonderful people to share your time with.


Priceless. I think this about summarizes one sides arguments.
____________________________
Carbuncle


#255 Jul 02 2012 at 10:12 PM Rating: Default
I should of gone and re-read that post before trying to quote it by memory. That was very poor of me and my mistake. But since you so helpfully did the math of ratio I'll get to the point. The reason I replied to no other part of your post was becuase you pretty much proved the point I was trying to make. That even if there was a 1% chance of winning it will still have a better return rate then other events in this game. Even at a 1% chance of success your guarantee 6 items(since at this point there's no way you win with less than 6) of your choice no other event allows such a reward, besides missions. So purely looking at the achieving armor. You have a better chance at gear in this then some of the biggest offenders like salvage(Which looses out considering the fact you need 3 pieces 1 piece from a 5-10% depending, and another piece from one of the biggest ***** over from bosses.) or voidwatch.

So willing to put up with so many other bad events with %s stack against you. How is this any different? Is the point I am trying to make. Or is it simply becuase there is no other way to cheat in those events to increase the drop rates?
____________________________
If cookies were milk and milk was cookies. Would Oreo's still be america's favorite brand of milk?
#256 Jul 02 2012 at 10:23 PM Rating: Decent
**
342 posts
TheBarrister wrote:
Banalaty wrote:
Easy fix. Get SE to ban everyone with windower. Then the 3 people that dont use it can live in happy hippie land with no cheaters and still ***** about ps2 limitations because ps2s are all thats left. You can have the imaginary tight knit community because only cheaters are pricks and those that remain after The Windower Rapture would be wonderful people to share your time with.


Priceless. I think this about summarizes one sides arguments.

Hush. It's a Straw man. This has already been pointed out.
#257 Jul 02 2012 at 11:03 PM Rating: Good
**
983 posts
Laxedrane the Irrelevant wrote:
I should of gone and re-read that post before trying to quote it by memory. That was very poor of me and my mistake. But since you so helpfully did the math of ratio I'll get to the point. The reason I replied to no other part of your post was because you pretty much proved the point I was trying to make. That even if there was a 1% chance of winning it will still have a better return rate then other events in this game. Even at a 1% chance of success your guarantee 6 items(since at this point there's no way you win with less than 6) of your choice no other event allows such a reward, besides missions. So purely looking at the achieving armor. You have a better chance at gear in this then some of the biggest offenders like salvage(Which looses out considering the fact you need 3 pieces 1 piece from a 5-10% depending, and another piece from one of the biggest @#%^s over from bosses.) or voidwatch.

So willing to put up with so many other bad events with %s stack against you. How is this any different? Is the point I am trying to make. Or is it simply because there is no other way to cheat in those events to increase the drop rates?


Nyzul:
How often? Once per day hard limit.
How long? It takes half an hour.
Requirements? You need a very specific 6-man setup with 2-hours available.
Additional benefits: If you don't hit 100 on a 100-run, you probably get nothing worth having. You may score a paltry amount of Alexandrite if you hit another floor boss on the way up.

Voidwatch
How often? Three times per day (and then as many dusts as you want to use).
How long? With a good group, it takes about half an hour to form and another half hour per 6 stones.
Requirements? You need a really fairly variable 18-man setup. If you have multiple jobs, there's plenty of leeway for you to move around.
Additional benefits: Less amazing gear (Fajin Boots vs. Coruscanti, for instance), gil items (Heavy Metal Plates, Silver Mirrors, random crafting mats), XP, and Cruor (which is also gil).

So Nyzul might have a marginally higher drop rate (1% for floor 100 gear vs. 1% for a Voidwatch Body or probably 0.5% for a Voidwatch weapon), but it totally lacks additional benefits, has inflexible job requirements, requires 2-hours, and isn't spammable. If you ignore how frequently you can do the event, by your math Nyzul Isle floor 100 with a vanilla client is comparable to getting a Voidwatch body, except that you can do Voidwatch a minimum of 3x as often (effectively 3x drop rate) with a shout group of scrubs in less time and using more of your jobs while you make gil in various ways.
____________________________
Yay for Jhereg!
http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Lakshmi/Byrth
#258 Jul 03 2012 at 12:51 AM Rating: Excellent
Guru
Avatar
*****
11,147 posts
And some wonder why I've wanted time-based entry limits abolished on such content. :(
____________________________
Violence good. **** bad. Yay America.
#259 Jul 03 2012 at 4:31 AM Rating: Decent
Guru
Avatar
**
701 posts
TheBarrister wrote:
Banalaty wrote:
Easy fix. Get SE to ban everyone with windower. Then the 3 people that dont use it can live in happy hippie land with no cheaters and still ***** about ps2 limitations because ps2s are all thats left. You can have the imaginary tight knit community because only cheaters are pricks and those that remain after The Windower Rapture would be wonderful people to share your time with.


Priceless. I think this about summarizes one sides arguments.


Not at all. I want to see NEO Nyzul fixed officially so that everyone has a reasonable shot at winning and no one feels any need to cheat at all. I don't feel that having some of the best and brightest of the community skewing the results by cheating helps lead to that result. I think it's more likely to lead to results none of us want. As I said, if we act like we are now they'll never fix the broken event. If we play fair they may. The chances are between slim and none, so yeah I'll take slim. The only drawback to my strategy is, I don't get loot from it.

I kind of wonder if those who are cheating their way through Neo Nyzul really want the event officially fixed at all. They have their fix in place to get what they want, and despite what some say, there really is no effort on their part to goad/persuade/bully SE into making changes.
____________________________
Character: Camiie
Elvaan Female
Bastok Rank 10
MNK 99 / BST 99 / SMN 99 / DNC 99 / SAM 99 / WAR 99 / THF 99
#260 Jul 03 2012 at 4:49 AM Rating: Excellent
**
478 posts
Seriha wrote:
And some wonder why I've wanted time-based entry limits abolished on such content. :(

Doesn't matter much if you need to pop a 2hr to do the content.

Camiie wrote:
Not at all. I want to see NEO Nyzul fixed officially so that everyone has a reasonable shot at winning even reaching the desired boss fight and no one feels any need to cheat at all.

Fixed.
#261 Jul 03 2012 at 4:59 AM Rating: Excellent
Guru
Avatar
*****
11,147 posts
Elwynbelwyn wrote:
Seriha wrote:
And some wonder why I've wanted time-based entry limits abolished on such content. :(

Doesn't matter much if you need to pop a 2hr to do the content.


There are ways of replenishing them, but even NNI in its current incarnation would seem less daunting if you knew that in a week, you could basically try running it as much as you (or your group) would like. Luck elements aside, the more concentrated repetitions should also ideally build on what "skill" sets are required (if not taking short cuts). And since Assault tags wouldn't be a limited resource, losing wouldn't be as much of a blow, either.

But yeah, if someone wanted to Nyzul, Assault, Salvage, Dynamis, Einherjar, Limbus, or whatever for all time: Let them. If the concern lies in keeping people interested, that's when you start taking advantage of in-game point systems giving people more gear to buy or things they could sell off like all these abysmally rare new crafting materials. Maybe then SE would be left to create meaningful content and more often instead of hoping they can string people along with time sinks and fake difficulty.

Sadly, server code probably kills this dead because they haven't wrapped their brains around true instancing yet.
____________________________
Violence good. **** bad. Yay America.
#262 Jul 03 2012 at 5:38 AM Rating: Good
**
983 posts
To look at the "1% and once per day" number in another way, spending an entire year without wasting any tags would net you 3 or 4 pieces of armor.

I've gotten 2 Anhur Robes, Heka's Kalasiris, Toci's Harness, probably a dozen Heavy Metal Pouches (and Fajin Boots but no Coruscanti), lots of HMP singles, and I still have something like 200 stones left.
____________________________
Yay for Jhereg!
http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Lakshmi/Byrth
#263 Jul 03 2012 at 5:49 AM Rating: Good
Jack of All Trades
******
29,628 posts
Quote:
As I said, if we act like we are now they'll never fix the broken event. If we play fair they may.


I can't be the only one here that still doesn't see how "playing fair" -> "event possibly getting fixed", here.

To me the only connection to be made is "do whatever the **** you want" -> "SE does whatever the **** they want, which is often nothing at all"


Quote:
I kind of wonder if those who are cheating their way through Neo Nyzul really want the event officially fixed at all.


I think most of them believe that what they "want" to happen is meaningless because they are not the game designers, and that many of them have tried to be vocal about things that should be changed in the past, but their feedback was seemingly ignored.

Edited, Jul 3rd 2012 7:49am by Fynlar
#264 Jul 03 2012 at 7:31 AM Rating: Decent
Guru
Avatar
**
701 posts
Fynlar wrote:
Quote:
As I said, if we act like we are now they'll never fix the broken event. If we play fair they may.


I can't be the only one here that still doesn't see how "playing fair" -> "event possibly getting fixed", here.

To me the only connection to be made is "do whatever the **** you want" -> "SE does whatever the **** they want, which is often nothing at all"


"Do whatever the **** you want" would at least be a consistent standard for the players to take.

Quote:
I kind of wonder if those who are cheating their way through Neo Nyzul really want the event officially fixed at all.


Quote:
I think most of them believe that what they "want" to happen is meaningless because they are not the game designers, and that many of them have tried to be vocal about things that should be changed in the past, but their feedback was seemingly ignored.


I have a hard time believing that most of the people cheating have offered any sort of feedback on this topic to SE. If they have, I'm not seeing it.

Edited, Jul 3rd 2012 9:32am by Camiie
____________________________
Character: Camiie
Elvaan Female
Bastok Rank 10
MNK 99 / BST 99 / SMN 99 / DNC 99 / SAM 99 / WAR 99 / THF 99
#265 Jul 03 2012 at 7:57 AM Rating: Decent
Avatar
****
4,864 posts
Camiie wrote:

I have a hard time believing that most of the people cheating have offered any sort of feedback on this topic to SE. If they have, I'm not seeing it.


I have a hard time believing you've done your research into whether or not those people have offered the feedback you say they have. There is plenty of it. Including in this thread.

I think it's time you stepped off your high horse, because to me it looks like a miniature pony.
____________________________
Carbuncle


#266 Jul 03 2012 at 8:09 AM Rating: Decent
Guru
Avatar
**
701 posts
TheBarrister wrote:
Camiie wrote:

I have a hard time believing that most of the people cheating have offered any sort of feedback on this topic to SE. If they have, I'm not seeing it.


I have a hard time believing you've done your research into whether or not those people have offered the feedback you say they have. There is plenty of it. Including in this thread.

I think it's time you stepped off your high horse, because to me it looks like a miniature pony.


It'd be nice if SE was paying attention to this thread for multiple reasons. I kinda doubt they are though. They have their own forums now. I've hardly noticed any of you guys there especially on this topic.
____________________________
Character: Camiie
Elvaan Female
Bastok Rank 10
MNK 99 / BST 99 / SMN 99 / DNC 99 / SAM 99 / WAR 99 / THF 99
#267 Jul 03 2012 at 8:34 AM Rating: Good
**
255 posts
Camiie wrote:


Not at all. I want to see NEO Nyzul fixed officially so that everyone has a reasonable shot at winning and no one feels any need to cheat at all. I don't feel that having some of the best and brightest of the community skewing the results by cheating helps lead to that result. I think it's more likely to lead to results none of us want. As I said, if we act like we are now they'll never fix the broken event. If we play fair they may. The chances are between slim and none, so yeah I'll take slim. The only drawback to my strategy is, I don't get loot from it.

I kind of wonder if those who are cheating their way through Neo Nyzul really want the event officially fixed at all. They have their fix in place to get what they want, and despite what some say, there really is no effort on their part to goad/persuade/bully SE into making changes.


At this point, I highly doubt Nyzul will be "fixed" again. They've already made their pass-through and put in the stopper and the progression Astrariums. As seen by where Nyzul gear is placed in Gobbiebag reward tiers, they view these pieces as rarer than most things. They obviously want most groups reaching Floor 80 25 times for that one rare piece, and only occasionally getting lucky with Floor 100. With as many hundreds of times as people spam each Voidwatch monster for glowy bodies (which are generally inferior to Nyzul gear), I actually don't think it's wholly unrealistic to win Floor 80 25 times for something as clearly superior as a Thaumas body. Also, recall how many hundreds of times people spammed that Abyssea quest for the Refresh subligar? Well, you've got the Nares Trews in Nyzul which might take as many or fewer manhours clearing Floor 80. Sure, it would have been nice if they changed the requirement to 10 times instead of 25 times, but people have certainly expended more effort for much less. I realize that may be a controversial stance, but it seems to be SE's stance for better or for worse.



Edited, Jul 3rd 2012 10:38am by Poltergeist27
#268 Jul 03 2012 at 8:44 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
****
4,864 posts
Camiie wrote:
TheBarrister wrote:
Camiie wrote:

I have a hard time believing that most of the people cheating have offered any sort of feedback on this topic to SE. If they have, I'm not seeing it.


I have a hard time believing you've done your research into whether or not those people have offered the feedback you say they have. There is plenty of it. Including in this thread.

I think it's time you stepped off your high horse, because to me it looks like a miniature pony.


It'd be nice if SE was paying attention to this thread for multiple reasons. I kinda doubt they are though. They have their own forums now. I've hardly noticed any of you guys there especially on this topic.


There are nearly 100 pages worth of posts complaining about this on other forums though...

Smiley: oyvey


____________________________
Carbuncle


#269 Jul 03 2012 at 9:25 AM Rating: Good
**
983 posts
...and that's not even the only thread about it. There have been several other threads (and several deleted threads) also complaining about it.

One of the earliest threads on the subject ended up being deleted because people were discussing 3P alternatives too freely. That's where I posted my suggestions on how to fix it and asked SE to do it. By the time the current Neo-NI thread on the official forums came around, it was already pretty apparent that SE wasn't going to change the event and many people had given up trying to change their minds (myself included). I think I posted in the newest one ~twice mostly refereeing arguments between tards. Keep in mind that on release, there was no astarium system. This alleged 1% drop rate (as laughable as it is) represents a dramatic improvement over their initial system. That WAS the adjustment.

I also made this thread ( http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/109245-Neo-Nyzul-Isle-%28CAUTION-GMs-have-been-banning-for-flee-tools%29 ) which has had plenty of back and forth about the problems with and solutions to Neo-NI.
____________________________
Yay for Jhereg!
http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Lakshmi/Byrth
#270 Jul 03 2012 at 9:42 AM Rating: Decent
Byrthnoth wrote:
Laxedrane the Irrelevant wrote:
I should of gone and re-read that post before trying to quote it by memory. That was very poor of me and my mistake. But since you so helpfully did the math of ratio I'll get to the point. The reason I replied to no other part of your post was because you pretty much proved the point I was trying to make. That even if there was a 1% chance of winning it will still have a better return rate then other events in this game. Even at a 1% chance of success your guarantee 6 items(since at this point there's no way you win with less than 6) of your choice no other event allows such a reward, besides missions. So purely looking at the achieving armor. You have a better chance at gear in this then some of the biggest offenders like salvage(Which looses out considering the fact you need 3 pieces 1 piece from a 5-10% depending, and another piece from one of the biggest @#%^s over from bosses.) or voidwatch.

So willing to put up with so many other bad events with %s stack against you. How is this any different? Is the point I am trying to make. Or is it simply because there is no other way to cheat in those events to increase the drop rates?


Nyzul:
How often? Once per day hard limit.
How long? It takes half an hour.
Requirements? You need a very specific 6-man setup with 2-hours available.
Additional benefits: If you don't hit 100 on a 100-run, you probably get nothing worth having. You may score a paltry amount of Alexandrite if you hit another floor boss on the way up.

Voidwatch
How often? Three times per day (and then as many dusts as you want to use).
How long? With a good group, it takes about half an hour to form and another half hour per 6 stones.
Requirements? You need a really fairly variable 18-man setup. If you have multiple jobs, there's plenty of leeway for you to move around.
Additional benefits: Less amazing gear (Fajin Boots vs. Coruscanti, for instance), gil items (Heavy Metal Plates, Silver Mirrors, random crafting mats), XP, and Cruor (which is also gil).

So Nyzul might have a marginally higher drop rate (1% for floor 100 gear vs. 1% for a Voidwatch Body or probably 0.5% for a Voidwatch weapon), but it totally lacks additional benefits, has inflexible job requirements, requires 2-hours, and isn't spammable. If you ignore how frequently you can do the event, by your math Nyzul Isle floor 100 with a vanilla client is comparable to getting a Voidwatch body, except that you can do Voidwatch a minimum of 3x as often (effectively 3x drop rate) with a shout group of scrubs in less time and using more of your jobs while you make gil in various ways.


You do realize that most bodies have less then a 1% chance of dropping(Although who knows if that's with or without capped lights). On top of which using the data we are basing this on it's still a 4% probably 3% for a good group of people without relics(Just empy and other strong weapons). The other points you made besides 1.. I don't get why you made them. Are you saying you prefer the grind of voidwatch for those reasons? Cool. Are you saying nyzul a bad event for those reasons? Awesome, we agree on that, said it multiple times that this is a bad event.

The point you made of the fact you can spam Voidwatch is a tough one to counter, it's really just how you look at what you want to do in this game in general. Personally I get bored of constantly spamming the same nm over and over again probably only start doing it once very few days. However I can imagine other people being more committed. So your right you can change those numbers into voids favor if you spam the ever living **** out of it.

The point I was trying to make here was that you get screwed over by %s anyways so your saying that if nzyul isle was spammable you be less likely to cheat? The 2 hour thing neither here or there since there been plenty of events where people have decided to 2 hour zerg their way through it. I am actually on your side of the fence when it comes to liking how voidwatch forces a varied group but many people taking your stance on nyzul do not. it was seen in the voidwatch discussion where the event was being demonized just like this one. Not that this one doesn't have it coming.

What I am trying to say is if it's such a ****** event, why don't you simply not do it? What is there to gain by forcing your way through an event you hate, in set ups you hate?

The point other people and I are trying to make by not doing the event is that, it sends HUGE message to square that something has gone wrong. And they have responded to it. Case and point Walk of echoes. The event was probably less liked, less attempted, then SCNMs(remember those?). Square spent over a year constantly adjusting the event with almost every single Version update. Still didn't manage to catch the player base attention. That's a HUGE testament to simply, not doing the event.
____________________________
If cookies were milk and milk was cookies. Would Oreo's still be america's favorite brand of milk?
#271 Jul 03 2012 at 10:07 AM Rating: Excellent
****
5,745 posts
Laxedrane the Irrelevant wrote:
So willing to put up with so many other bad events with %s stack against you. How is this any different? Is the point I am trying to make.

And I keep saying the expected payout rate alone doesn't balance content. You say 1% expected outcome is pretty good. Want to know what else had a 1% expected outcome? Tier 0 HQ synths. And yet, it took me 467 attempts to make myself a Genie Weskit.

Did I feel accomplished when it finally happened? No, actually. After the first 100 attempts, it simply became an obsession. I just needed to see exactly how far the random number generator could ***** me at that point.

Being at the mercy of the random number generator is not compelling game play. Doing old Nyzul has shown me just how frustrating it is to participate in an event where you are constantly in that situation. But at least with old Nyzul, you could feel like you were making progress over time. With new Nyzul, there is no progress. You get lucky or you don't.
____________________________
Lyonheart, like Eorzia, will be reborn in FFXIV!

FFXI veteran (Lyonheart and Lakiskline of Lakshmi)
1/467 on signed HQ Weskit!!!
#272 Jul 03 2012 at 11:04 AM Rating: Default
svlyons wrote:
Laxedrane the Irrelevant wrote:
So willing to put up with so many other bad events with %s stack against you. How is this any different? Is the point I am trying to make.

And I keep saying the expected payout rate alone doesn't balance content. You say 1% expected outcome is pretty good. Want to know what else had a 1% expected outcome? Tier 0 HQ synths. And yet, it took me 467 attempts to make myself a Genie Weskit.

Did I feel accomplished when it finally happened? No, actually. After the first 100 attempts, it simply became an obsession. I just needed to see exactly how far the random number generator could ***** me at that point.

Being at the mercy of the random number generator is not compelling game play. Doing old Nyzul has shown me just how frustrating it is to participate in an event where you are constantly in that situation. But at least with old Nyzul, you could feel like you were making progress over time. With new Nyzul, there is no progress. You get lucky or you don't.


And I agree, the point I am trying to make is that you put up with it in almost every other aspect of the game. You continue to pay a monthly fee, you continue to buy content from square. With the pure exception of Abyssea which even then had some pretty good **** you moments at the hands of the RNG. ALL events use the RNG some shape, way, or form. Nyzul just applies it to a different aspect. So if that's the case why do you continue to play the game at all? We both have our reasons,(Mines long since diminished, however I am sure we can guess why each other still plays this game.) we both agree on this issue. I am simply putting forth the notion that A, if you are willing to put up with it in so many other aspects of the game why is it suddenly a HUGE issue here? Why does it suddenly justify cheating? and B. If you bothers you that much why do it at all?
____________________________
If cookies were milk and milk was cookies. Would Oreo's still be america's favorite brand of milk?
#273 Jul 03 2012 at 12:11 PM Rating: Good
Sage
****
4,281 posts
Check the Nyzul threads on SE and search for my name. I've offered my feedback on how to make the event more user-friendly. Even if I'm 15/15 I still go back as often as I can to help my LS members get their gear so I still have a personal stake in how "balanced" this event is.
____________________________
Philemon on Valefor
Gjallarhorn 4/17/08
Daurdabla 5/9/11
Carnwenhan 5/4/12
Ryunohige 10/29/12
#274 Jul 03 2012 at 12:18 PM Rating: Excellent
****
5,745 posts
Laxedrane the Irrelevant wrote:
And I agree, the point I am trying to make is that you put up with it in almost every other aspect of the game. You continue to pay a monthly fee, you continue to buy content from square. With the pure exception of Abyssea which even then had some pretty good @#%^ you moments at the hands of the RNG. ALL events use the RNG some shape, way, or form. Nyzul just applies it to a different aspect. So if that's the case why do you continue to play the game at all? We both have our reasons,(Mines long since diminished, however I am sure we can guess why each other still plays this game.) we both agree on this issue. I am simply putting forth the notion that A, if you are willing to put up with it in so many other aspects of the game why is it suddenly a HUGE issue here? Why does it suddenly justify cheating? and B. If you bothers you that much why do it at all?

I put up with it in almost every other aspect of the game because random outcomes play a much less prominent role in every other aspect of the game. Old Nyzul takes all of the randomness found through out the rest of the game and adds even more randomness on top of it. Neo Nyzul then kicks it up a notch.
____________________________
Lyonheart, like Eorzia, will be reborn in FFXIV!

FFXI veteran (Lyonheart and Lakiskline of Lakshmi)
1/467 on signed HQ Weskit!!!
#275 Jul 03 2012 at 12:30 PM Rating: Good
**
983 posts
Laxedrane the Irrelevant wrote:
You do realize that most bodies have less then a 1% chance of dropping(Although who knows if that's with or without capped lights). On top of which using the data we are basing this on it's still a 4% probably 3% for a good group of people without relics(Just empy and other strong weapons). The other points you made besides 1.. I don't get why you made them. Are you saying you prefer the grind of voidwatch for those reasons? Cool. Are you saying nyzul a bad event for those reasons? Awesome, we agree on that, said it multiple times that this is a bad event.


I just used 1% because it's the number you used. Also, Voidwatch bodies are probably around 1% or perhaps even a little higher with capped lights. Weapons are likely less. As pointed out by Svlyons, being 1% doesn't mean that you will get it in any reasonable amount of time (or you may get two Anhur Robes in 3 kills, like I did). People tend to claim drop rates of rare items are lower than they actually are because they overestimate their sample size. My four pulse drops have been a result of ~650 chests, many of which were weapon NMs or couldn't drop pulse items (Qilin, Botulus, Ig Alima, Provenance BCs, etc.) I have personally been in the party for many Toci's/Anhur/Heka's/etc. drops, but I have been in the party for only one pulse weapon (Coruscanti) drop. Those are exceptionally rare.

Sorting by "defeats the ____" messages:
1/81 on Toci's Harness.
0/43 on Mekira body.
1/13 on Heka's Kalasiris
2/120 on Anhur Robe
0/8 on Voidwrought's body
0/5 on Hahava's body
0/148 on Coruscanti
0/7 on Ephemeron
0/1 on Uptala's weapon

4/270 total on bodies (~1.5%) <--- I feel I'm lucky here, so I've been saying 1%. Still, these are obviously more common than...
1/2664 total for Coruscanti assuming 18 people with cells that say something when the get Coruscanti. Even assuming a few have slipped past, we're nowhere near the 26 we'd need for 1% here.

Laxedrane the Irrelevant wrote:
The point you made of the fact you can spam Voidwatch is a tough one to counter, it's really just how you look at what you want to do in this game in general. Personally I get bored of constantly spamming the same nm over and over again probably only start doing it once very few days. However I can imagine other people being more committed. So your right you can change those numbers into voids favor if you spam the ever living @#%^ out of it.

The point I was trying to make here was that you get screwed over by %s anyways so your saying that if Nyzul isle was spammable you be less likely to cheat? The 2 hour thing neither here or there since there been plenty of events where people have decided to 2 hour zerg their way through it. I am actually on your side of the fence when it comes to liking how voidwatch forces a varied group but many people taking your stance on nyzul do not. it was seen in the voidwatch discussion where the event was being demonized just like this one. Not that this one doesn't have it coming


If Nyzul was spammable, there would be less cheating. Making it spammable would ultimately require:
* A shorter event
* Infinite tags
* No reliance on 2-hours (add an NI-specific buff like Embrava with 25% movement speed)
* Removing Order lamps

I don't think it can actually be made spammable because the shorter you go the less you can rely on the law of large numbers, but it would be less of a downer to make your party and blow your 2-hour only to time out to a Floor 90 Genbu with WS restrictions if you knew you could enter again immediately. As it is, a vanilla party would basically face 4 consecutive high-performance-demanding runs (>2 hours) and at the end of the night they'd walk away with nothing the vast majority of the time.

Even with a 4% effective "drop rate" of floor 100 bodies, NI is not competitive with spending the same time in Voidwatch (assuming you value a single piece of NI armor as equal to a single piece of Voidwatch armor and ignoring the peripheral benefits). By the way, there are peripheral benefits to doing Voidwatch. I did some Celaenos last night on a mule that didn't have any stones just for XP/Cruor. If he'd had stones, he might have gotten a Laneglik for his Bard or Anhur Robe while xping/cruoring up.

Laxedrane the Irrelevant wrote:
What I am trying to say is if it's such a sh*tty event, why don't you simply not do it? What is there to gain by forcing your way through an event you hate, in set ups you hate?

The point other people and I are trying to make by not doing the event is that, it sends HUGE message to square that something has gone wrong. And they have responded to it. Case and point Walk of echoes. The event was probably less liked, less attempted, then SCNMs(remember those?). Square spent over a year constantly adjusting the event with almost every single Version update. Still didn't manage to catch the player base attention. That's a HUGE testament to simply, not doing the event.


Lets see if I follow this. You think not doing the event will make SE patch it so it's reasonable, but provide examples of two events that either received insufficient/no attention from SE (you said SCNMs, but I think you meant ANNMs maybe because people did SCNMs) or an event that by your own admission no one does still (WoE). So you're saying we should not do the event in protest so that SE can incompetently adjust it and it can never be reasonable (WoE), or so that they can ignore it just like us (ANNMs + a laundry list of crap events that were abandoned on release)?

I don't get it. Can you give an example of a single event that was unpopular on release and ignored, only to have SE later patch it and successfully revive the event? I can't think of one at the moment. Their patches are generally too little too late.

~~~~ Insert visions of FFXIV's future here ~~~~

Edited, Jul 3rd 2012 2:30pm by Byrthnoth
____________________________
Yay for Jhereg!
http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Lakshmi/Byrth
#276 Jul 03 2012 at 12:45 PM Rating: Default
svlyons wrote:
Laxedrane the Irrelevant wrote:
And I agree, the point I am trying to make is that you put up with it in almost every other aspect of the game. You continue to pay a monthly fee, you continue to buy content from square. With the pure exception of Abyssea which even then had some pretty good @#%^ you moments at the hands of the RNG. ALL events use the RNG some shape, way, or form. Nyzul just applies it to a different aspect. So if that's the case why do you continue to play the game at all? We both have our reasons,(Mines long since diminished, however I am sure we can guess why each other still plays this game.) we both agree on this issue. I am simply putting forth the notion that A, if you are willing to put up with it in so many other aspects of the game why is it suddenly a HUGE issue here? Why does it suddenly justify cheating? and B. If you bothers you that much why do it at all?

I put up with it in almost every other aspect of the game because random outcomes play a much less prominent role in every other aspect of the game. Old Nyzul takes all of the randomness found through out the rest of the game and adds even more randomness on top of it. Neo Nyzul then kicks it up a notch.



Even though how we already gone over the fact it's statistically on par with every other event, no more luck based then most of the events we are still playing?
____________________________
If cookies were milk and milk was cookies. Would Oreo's still be america's favorite brand of milk?
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 98 All times are in CDT
Anonymous Guests (98)