TheBarrister wrote:
Reiterpallasch wrote:
GMing a person for selling an in game service for in game money? You must be so cool.
It wasn't even against the EULA! (Then neither was what was happening in Salvage...)
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Nyzul Uncharted: nice gear, cheater!Follow
It wasn't even against the EULA! (Then neither was what was happening in Salvage...)
Philemon on Valefor
Gjallarhorn 4/17/08
Daurdabla 5/9/11
Carnwenhan 5/4/12
Ryunohige 10/29/12
Gjallarhorn 4/17/08
Daurdabla 5/9/11
Carnwenhan 5/4/12
Ryunohige 10/29/12
detlef wrote:
TheBarrister wrote:
Reiterpallasch wrote:
GMing a person for selling an in game service for in game money? You must be so cool.
It wasn't even against the EULA! (Then neither was what was happening in Salvage...)
I would have thought that the EULA would have a provision against taking advantage of an unintentional game mechanic (i.e. a bug). Most games do. People who make use of the Salvage dupe bug tried to make the argument, "Well we thought that this was intentional behavior, and that we had discovered some secret game mechanic that SE wanted us to find out on our own." However, the fact that the linkshells which regularly took full advantage of this behavior were clearly doing everything they could to keep all of this information hush hush would indicate that they knew they were taking advantage of a bug, and that they didn't want SE to fix it.
svlyons wrote:
I would have thought that the EULA would have a provision against taking advantage of an unintentional game mechanic (i.e. a bug).
It's actually under GM Policies: "Players who take advantage of in-game mechanics not intended as normal means of game play".
If you all are curious: 26 Nov 2008 Thread
Jophiel wrote:
Pack your own lunch and bring nothing but Pixie Stix and Pop Rocks and get your liberty on.
Ok, i've been following this thread, usually coming to check it when i was bored. I've refrained from posting in it until now.
...
I am just stating the laws as they are. Plain and dry. I don't agree with every law but I'd expect them to be enforced.
...
Geez, how many Jews, gypsies, and gays were turned over to the authorities because of this mentality - after all, they broke Germany's EULA by being jewish / gay / a gypsie.
EDIT: I know I know I know, the **** references are cliche. I just get so irritated by people when they play the "I dont agree to this" then offer their backsides to their "superiors", actually applauding them when they enforce the same actions "they dont agree with." Yech. How mindlessly apathetic.
Edited, Jul 5th 2012 3:12pm by ManifestOfKujata
That was it for me.
Forum users in general, FFXI in particular, can get too full of themselves. I think everyone can agree that is practically an axiom. But when this laughable issue starts drawing Holocaust parallels by someone, i think the whole lot of you need to just step the hell back and look at yourselves for a tick.
People are going to do what they want. Period. And ppl will twist common sense beyond all reason to justify their actions. Gonna quickly list what i've taken from this thread then give my opinion on the action both groups should take.
*NIUAS sucks(i can attest to to this as i did it quite a bit when it was released) for many and sundrey reasons.
*NIUAS boasts some nice gear.
*Some ppl(group 1) are doing w/e they deem necessary to obtain said gear.
*Other ppl(group 2) are upset at the lengths group 1 are willing to resort to.
*Pointlessdebate arguing ensues ad nausea.
That about right so far? Now my opinion.
Group 1, more power to you fellows/gals! Godspeed! I wouldn't mind some of that gear, but for me, my own risk/gain assessment of the situation puts me on the 'never gonna get any' pile. Keep doing what you are doing and enjoy your results. I've opted out of doing events in the past when they seemed pointless(for w/e reasons) to me, this is just another one i'll continue to avoid.
Group 2, leave off ppl. You can only control yourself ultimately. If group 1 wants to play with fire, let them. No amount of finger-waggin' can change minds once folks lock into the stance that they are right. Either they will get the sweet gear and make out like bandits. OR they can enjoy what gains they can from their behavior and have to deal with a penalty later on. Group 2 folks can A) participate in this crap event in a way they feel is proper, B) say ***** it and jump to group 1, or C) opt out of NIUASuntil SE adjusts the content and leave group 1 to their ultimate fate.
I mean both groups make good points and neither looks to be backing down anytime soon. SE will eventually do something, it may take yrs as usual, but they will. And until that time, the best policy imho it to worry more about 'self' and not what the other guy is doing.
All that said, i'm gonna step right back and let you all get back to what you were doing. Just felt the need to put that out there.
Carry on.
PS-Still can't shake it, comparing collaborators in the gods'damned Holocaust to this smemy issue?
ManifestOfKujata wrote:
Prrsha wrote:
...
I am just stating the laws as they are. Plain and dry. I don't agree with every law but I'd expect them to be enforced.
...
Geez, how many Jews, gypsies, and gays were turned over to the authorities because of this mentality - after all, they broke Germany's EULA by being jewish / gay / a gypsie.
EDIT: I know I know I know, the **** references are cliche. I just get so irritated by people when they play the "I dont agree to this" then offer their backsides to their "superiors", actually applauding them when they enforce the same actions "they dont agree with." Yech. How mindlessly apathetic.
Edited, Jul 5th 2012 3:12pm by ManifestOfKujata
That was it for me.
Forum users in general, FFXI in particular, can get too full of themselves. I think everyone can agree that is practically an axiom. But when this laughable issue starts drawing Holocaust parallels by someone, i think the whole lot of you need to just step the hell back and look at yourselves for a tick.
People are going to do what they want. Period. And ppl will twist common sense beyond all reason to justify their actions. Gonna quickly list what i've taken from this thread then give my opinion on the action both groups should take.
*NIUAS sucks(i can attest to to this as i did it quite a bit when it was released) for many and sundrey reasons.
*NIUAS boasts some nice gear.
*Some ppl(group 1) are doing w/e they deem necessary to obtain said gear.
*Other ppl(group 2) are upset at the lengths group 1 are willing to resort to.
*Pointless
That about right so far? Now my opinion.
Group 1, more power to you fellows/gals! Godspeed! I wouldn't mind some of that gear, but for me, my own risk/gain assessment of the situation puts me on the 'never gonna get any' pile. Keep doing what you are doing and enjoy your results. I've opted out of doing events in the past when they seemed pointless(for w/e reasons) to me, this is just another one i'll continue to avoid.
Group 2, leave off ppl. You can only control yourself ultimately. If group 1 wants to play with fire, let them. No amount of finger-waggin' can change minds once folks lock into the stance that they are right. Either they will get the sweet gear and make out like bandits. OR they can enjoy what gains they can from their behavior and have to deal with a penalty later on. Group 2 folks can A) participate in this crap event in a way they feel is proper, B) say ***** it and jump to group 1, or C) opt out of NIUASuntil SE adjusts the content and leave group 1 to their ultimate fate.
I mean both groups make good points and neither looks to be backing down anytime soon. SE will eventually do something, it may take yrs as usual, but they will. And until that time, the best policy imho it to worry more about 'self' and not what the other guy is doing.
All that said, i'm gonna step right back and let you all get back to what you were doing. Just felt the need to put that out there.
Carry on.
PS-Still can't shake it, comparing collaborators in the gods'damned Holocaust to this smemy issue?
[ffxisig]10000[/ffxisig]
----------------------------------
Quite possibly the DUMBEST thing i've ever read.
----------------------------------
One of my server's brightest minds... wrote:
Not to make too extreme a comparison, but Rog is like Nelson Mandella...
Quite possibly the DUMBEST thing i've ever read.
The whole "not intended as normal" thing is a sad joke, given how little communication from SE we hear on things like this. I dunno about you guys, but my psychic abilities only work at short-range, and I can't read the minds of game developers a continent away very well to know what was intended or not.
http://ereblog.livejournal.com/
Erecia and Ereblog are BACK, baby!
Erecia and Ereblog are BACK, baby!
Erecia wrote:
The whole "not intended as normal" thing is a sad joke, given how little communication from SE we hear on things like this. I dunno about you guys, but my psychic abilities only work at short-range, and I can't read the minds of game developers a continent away very well to know what was intended or not.
I'm glad someone else brought up this fact, e.g., that violating the EULA on "not intended to be a game mechanic" requires the impossible ability of reading the minds of whoever decides to interpret eventual, future actions in whichever way suits them.
Carbuncle
TheBarrister wrote:
Erecia wrote:
The whole "not intended as normal" thing is a sad joke, given how little communication from SE we hear on things like this. I dunno about you guys, but my psychic abilities only work at short-range, and I can't read the minds of game developers a continent away very well to know what was intended or not.
I'm glad someone else brought up this fact, e.g., that violating the EULA on "not intended to be a game mechanic" requires the impossible ability of reading the minds of whoever decides to interpret eventual, future actions in whichever way suits them.
[GM]Aliekber>> Thinking about the EULA is not intended to be a game mechanic. Please report to your nearest LM-17 center for bannination.
Aliekber
RDM BLU SCH DRG PLD BLM NIN WHM
Linkshell: CrimsonMercenaries Server: Carbamesh
Post in /K/ where the orbital laser system is now online.
RDM BLU SCH DRG PLD BLM NIN WHM
Linkshell: CrimsonMercenaries Server: Carbamesh
Sandinmygum the Stupendous wrote:
Human (?) females look ugly.
spiritreaverdiablos the Hand wrote:
Stuff
Just being honest, are you really so young and naive to not know what Godwin's Law is?
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Airships on fire off the shoulder of Bahamut. I watched Scapula Beams glitter in the dark near the Three Mage Gate...
You're new here, aren't you?
Nilatai wrote:
Vlorsutes wrote:
There's always...not trolling him?
You're new here, aren't you?
Raelix wrote:
spiritreaverdiablos the Hand wrote:
Stuff
Just being honest, are you really so young and naive to not know what Godwin's Law is?
I'm not sure what your point is, or why you have to be not-s-subtly insulting about it.
They described Godwin's Law without naming it because that's what took place in here. The fact that they didn't name it doesn't mean that the conversation HASN'T gotten to that stupid of a level.
The point still stands. If you're comparing the Holocaust to cheating in Nyzul Isle because SE is slow on updates, then you need to snap yourself out of your line of thinking before you say more stupid things.
Just let it be. Someone brought up the holocaust? Well whatever, people don't need to be told that it's ridiculous. It's the internet. There are plenty of other things to get mad about. LIKE CHEATERS.
By the by, are the GM policies listed somewhere? I read through the FFXI rules and policies and unless I'm blind or only semi-literate I don't see anything regarding "Players who take advantage of in-game mechanics not intended as normal means of game play." If it's not on the website, how are people supposed to know that what they are doing is bannable? I'm sure salvage dupers and whatnot knew they were doing something wrong, but I doubt many would have continued doing so if they knew it was bannable. As much fun as it is to punish other people, it surely would have been fairer if a warning had been issued.
By the by, are the GM policies listed somewhere? I read through the FFXI rules and policies and unless I'm blind or only semi-literate I don't see anything regarding "Players who take advantage of in-game mechanics not intended as normal means of game play." If it's not on the website, how are people supposed to know that what they are doing is bannable? I'm sure salvage dupers and whatnot knew they were doing something wrong, but I doubt many would have continued doing so if they knew it was bannable. As much fun as it is to punish other people, it surely would have been fairer if a warning had been issued.
Philemon on Valefor
Gjallarhorn 4/17/08
Daurdabla 5/9/11
Carnwenhan 5/4/12
Ryunohige 10/29/12
Gjallarhorn 4/17/08
Daurdabla 5/9/11
Carnwenhan 5/4/12
Ryunohige 10/29/12
I'm saying it was already brought up, so why is he starting such a tirade when by definition the comparison is laughable?
That's the point of Godwin's Law and the procedures associated with it: The comparison is almost always stupid, but almost always comes up. Getting worked up about it is akin to complaining that the tide washed your sandcastle away.
It is flat out one of the oldest observations of the internet. Hell the basic form predates the 'true' internet by a few years even (when excluding the relations to having 'automatically lost the argment' and such).
If you're gonna take 'young and naive' as an insult by proxy I have a few choice real insults relating to your thin-*** skin.
Edited, Jul 7th 2012 2:27pm by Raelix
That's the point of Godwin's Law and the procedures associated with it: The comparison is almost always stupid, but almost always comes up. Getting worked up about it is akin to complaining that the tide washed your sandcastle away.
It is flat out one of the oldest observations of the internet. Hell the basic form predates the 'true' internet by a few years even (when excluding the relations to having 'automatically lost the argment' and such).
If you're gonna take 'young and naive' as an insult by proxy I have a few choice real insults relating to your thin-*** skin.
Edited, Jul 7th 2012 2:27pm by Raelix
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Airships on fire off the shoulder of Bahamut. I watched Scapula Beams glitter in the dark near the Three Mage Gate...
You're new here, aren't you?
Nilatai wrote:
Vlorsutes wrote:
There's always...not trolling him?
You're new here, aren't you?
Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing? I just said that anybody who is offended by a holocaust reference on an internet gaming forum is probably taking things too seriously.
Philemon on Valefor
Gjallarhorn 4/17/08
Daurdabla 5/9/11
Carnwenhan 5/4/12
Ryunohige 10/29/12
Gjallarhorn 4/17/08
Daurdabla 5/9/11
Carnwenhan 5/4/12
Ryunohige 10/29/12
detlef wrote:
By the by, are the GM policies listed somewhere?
Sorry, I should have done bit more digging. Since SE moved over to the SE Account Management site, they changed the policy/rules outline.
Here's the latest:
2.1 Cheating and Botting. You may not create or use any cheats, bots, automation software, hacks, mods or any other unauthorized software designed to modify the Game and gameplay. In addition, you may not take advantage of game system bugs and exploits during gameplay.
Linky for Great Justice
Jophiel wrote:
Pack your own lunch and bring nothing but Pixie Stix and Pop Rocks and get your liberty on.
Ah it was in there and I am blind.
Philemon on Valefor
Gjallarhorn 4/17/08
Daurdabla 5/9/11
Carnwenhan 5/4/12
Ryunohige 10/29/12
Gjallarhorn 4/17/08
Daurdabla 5/9/11
Carnwenhan 5/4/12
Ryunohige 10/29/12
You can never really tell what is intended to be a game mechanic or not though until they just come out and say it. People may have really thought that fighting in an alliance in salvage was what you were supposed to do, given the abysmal drop rate and other weird sh*t that went on in there.
The game has weirder stuff that IS a game mechanic, such as using /fume on a VW NM to reset the current procs. Linky.
Edited, Jul 7th 2012 7:11pm by Reiterpallasch
The game has weirder stuff that IS a game mechanic, such as using /fume on a VW NM to reset the current procs. Linky.
Edited, Jul 7th 2012 7:11pm by Reiterpallasch
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/stormrage/Yoichinoyumi/advanced
http://www.opponent-guild.com/
http://www.opponent-guild.com/
Quote:
The game has weirder stuff that IS a game mechanic, such as using /fume on a VW NM to reset the current procs.
Holy crap, that is hella obscure.
By the way, BG wiki expands on this a bit for those who can't read moonspeak:
Quote:
If a set of weaknesses is particularly difficult to hit and the monster has been alive for five minutes or longer, the current hate target of the monster may disengage and use the "/fume" emote on the monster. This will cause the "aura" of the monster to change, and choose an entirely new set of weaknesses. This will not create a new extreme weakness if it has already been hit. For every five minutes the monster is alive, this can be used once (for example, after 10 minutes of fighting, the weaknesses can be changed twice in a row).
That was my thought.
Violence good. Sexy bad. Yay America.
@ ManifestOfKujata
Yeah, that is a pretty strong label and I am sure you are going to say I eat kittens too and have cookouts with *****. I stand behind my above comments and if you see that as lying, so be it. I told you step by step what happened. You took one sentence and inferred a lot about it. "I just report them and they appear in Gooul". I reported the selling and asked the GM if it was ok. I asked about the action not the person. The GM then banned the people... I assume but am not sure, because they kept shouting and GMs can see the constant chat. It was causing a major argument among players in Jeuno at the time. This is when the concept of selling FCs were new. I did send personal tells to people later warning them what was going on but I never called a GM on them. I should have written back then: "I reported and questioned the FC actions and then they (players that were shouting) appeared in Gooul." After all, I am not a GM in FFXI, I can't ban people. If you have anger about them vanishing, I guess they did something wrong in the eyes of the GM. They made the call to temp ban them.
I didn't wish my comment to be construed as such and it was not my intention. I am not a head hunter that actively hunts out and reports people, however, if I see people cheating in front of me, I report them. I am sure you are going to say "mind your own business" but cheating does effect the community and the game as a whole. Everyone makes errors in grammar and communication (heck even people have posted here drunk) and to label someone so harshly as a sociopath crosses a line. If you met me in real life I'd hope you'd disagree. I just feel strongly against cheating in a game I love and if it comes off as strong, I'm sorry and I apologize.
It's actually under GM Policies: "Players who take advantage of in-game mechanics not intended as normal means of game play".
If you all are curious: 26 Nov 2008 Thread
If history repeats itself, that link is very relevant. After reading the entire thread I wonder if the same thing will happen to those players who are messing around in Nyzul. It also seems that people back then seemed to have more of a dour view of cheating (and they weren't even altering the game to do so).
True.
Some note worthy quotes from 2008:
If SE is worried about the loss of income from banned players, they need to sit down and think about what would happen when their game gets no new players and loses a significant chunk of current players because it has the label of being too full of bots/cheaters/exploiters.
Edited, Nov 26th 2008 11:02pm by luxv
I'd say that war's caused a good number of casualties already.
Regardless, those implying that none of this can be tracked are silly. Something needs to happen, both to punish and alleviate why people were tempted to begin with.
I haven't laughed as something so hard in a very very long time. XD Thanks. :3
Edited, Jul 8th 2012 3:18am by Prrsha
Yeah, that is a pretty strong label and I am sure you are going to say I eat kittens too and have cookouts with *****. I stand behind my above comments and if you see that as lying, so be it. I told you step by step what happened. You took one sentence and inferred a lot about it. "I just report them and they appear in Gooul". I reported the selling and asked the GM if it was ok. I asked about the action not the person. The GM then banned the people... I assume but am not sure, because they kept shouting and GMs can see the constant chat. It was causing a major argument among players in Jeuno at the time. This is when the concept of selling FCs were new. I did send personal tells to people later warning them what was going on but I never called a GM on them. I should have written back then: "I reported and questioned the FC actions and then they (players that were shouting) appeared in Gooul." After all, I am not a GM in FFXI, I can't ban people. If you have anger about them vanishing, I guess they did something wrong in the eyes of the GM. They made the call to temp ban them.
I didn't wish my comment to be construed as such and it was not my intention. I am not a head hunter that actively hunts out and reports people, however, if I see people cheating in front of me, I report them. I am sure you are going to say "mind your own business" but cheating does effect the community and the game as a whole. Everyone makes errors in grammar and communication (heck even people have posted here drunk) and to label someone so harshly as a sociopath crosses a line. If you met me in real life I'd hope you'd disagree. I just feel strongly against cheating in a game I love and if it comes off as strong, I'm sorry and I apologize.
klausneck wrote:
svlyons wrote:
I would have thought that the EULA would have a provision against taking advantage of an unintentional game mechanic (i.e. a bug).
It's actually under GM Policies: "Players who take advantage of in-game mechanics not intended as normal means of game play".
If you all are curious: 26 Nov 2008 Thread
If history repeats itself, that link is very relevant. After reading the entire thread I wonder if the same thing will happen to those players who are messing around in Nyzul. It also seems that people back then seemed to have more of a dour view of cheating (and they weren't even altering the game to do so).
svlyons wrote:
If nothing else, Prrsha is a good demonstration of how cheating and degrees of cheating are fairly subjective concepts.
True.
Some note worthy quotes from 2008:
Seriha wrote:
I can easily see why people cheat, RMT, or keep secrets to themselves in this game. It's something SE indirectly promotes with a lot of their design choices. It sucks the temptation is even there, no matter how strong a person's individual moral compass may be. It sucks even more when we're confronted with the choice of turning a blind eye to it all or throwing friendships away due a possible moment of weakness. It was something I was implying when I said this isn't just a game, but somewhere the distinction between game and one-upsmanship got lost, too.(
Catwho wrote:
Therefore, if I'm butt-hurt about anything, it's that my friends who did Salvage the way SE intended are nowhere near finished with even one set of gear, and a bunch of exploiters are selling extras to the highest bidder. No QQing here, just a loss of respect for anyone involved in this. This wasn't working harder; it wasn't even working smarter. It was taking advantage of a bug.
The closest real life analogy would be cooking the books because of a loop in the tax code. Your tax adviser assures you it's fine, although he warns you to keep it your little secret as he hands you a triple sized tax refund. When you're caught, it's enough to land you in jail for a few years.
The closest real life analogy would be cooking the books because of a loop in the tax code. Your tax adviser assures you it's fine, although he warns you to keep it your little secret as he hands you a triple sized tax refund. When you're caught, it's enough to land you in jail for a few years.
Seriha wrote:
luxv wrote:
BarberofSeville wrote:
Everything in this game takes me about 4x as long as anyone else it seems. I'm in the middle of paying 140M for a relic that those with sponsorship rights are paying 40M for. 211 salvages with one finished piece to show for it. 1020 ancient beastcoins earned in limbus with NO homam or nashira. Etc etc etc.
I'm not going to lie. If there aren't some rollbacks, bans, or some sort of penalties its going to be very difficult to continue playing fair and not cheating. Heck, I have 2 alt accounts at 75 that are totally disposable. If SE let's this go unpunished it will be a clear message that all they care about is how many subscribers they have. I really hope it doesn't come to that, but when a linkshell walks out of a sandworm fight with 60M worth of drops due to cheating......I don't even want to think about how many noble beds or demon quiver stacks it would take me to match that.
I'm not going to lie. If there aren't some rollbacks, bans, or some sort of penalties its going to be very difficult to continue playing fair and not cheating. Heck, I have 2 alt accounts at 75 that are totally disposable. If SE let's this go unpunished it will be a clear message that all they care about is how many subscribers they have. I really hope it doesn't come to that, but when a linkshell walks out of a sandworm fight with 60M worth of drops due to cheating......I don't even want to think about how many noble beds or demon quiver stacks it would take me to match that.
If SE is worried about the loss of income from banned players, they need to sit down and think about what would happen when their game gets no new players and loses a significant chunk of current players because it has the label of being too full of bots/cheaters/exploiters.
Edited, Nov 26th 2008 11:02pm by luxv
I'd say that war's caused a good number of casualties already.
Regardless, those implying that none of this can be tracked are silly. Something needs to happen, both to punish and alleviate why people were tempted to begin with.
detlef wrote:
Relevant:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/gangstakago/WoW/20090928.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/gangstakago/WoW/20090928.jpg
I haven't laughed as something so hard in a very very long time. XD Thanks. :3
Edited, Jul 8th 2012 3:18am by Prrsha
ManifestOfKujata wrote:
First mention:
Prrsha wrote:
Oh, yes. I do own up to reporting people SELLING FC per hour for gil. According to the GMs I have spoken with, this is bannable. It's bannable in the same way as you can claim a NM and SELL the claim for GIL. As for FC parties for free? Nah, they don't care. Nor do they seem to care about those buy FCs.
I don't intend to know their logic in this, only that they do ban people that shout "FC in xxx for xxx gil for 7 hrs."
It's a good sign to see people offering others help to accomplish a similar goal or even help another. It's crosses the line when people SELL leveling parties to the desprate.
If you don't believe me, read the post you linked to.
To sum it up again. You SELL spots in jeuno via shouts you get banned. You OFFER spots in jeuno via shouts you don't.
On one occasion I had a player come back to me in a /tell a few days later saying he got a temp ban and was asked to please desist by a GM.
Edited, Jul 5th 2012 6:02pm by ManifestOfKujata
If that's true, then shouldn't all those end-game shells of old selling Sky and King drops for gil have been banned as well? It's equal to claiming an NM and selling the claim for gil, no? Or the new phenomenon of group of 5 selling Nyzul floor 100 clears for that matter.
Serious question here:
How exactly is one individual or even an entire endgame Linkshell for that matter affected by another group of players having NNI on farm status using DAT swaps?
I mean think about it, there are plenty of scenarios where that very question has vastly different outcomes in other MMOs. Ie. Buying virtual currency, using 3rd party botting applications, win sharing in PvP, exploiting boss loopholes, etc etc. Yet, in FFXI... I just don't see it as an issue. Frankly, this is one of the only MMOs I have played over the years were, what another guild or even single player does via "cheating" never directly inhibits another player in a negative manner aside from a possible inconvenience.
A static NNI group that blazes through the content has absolutely ZERO effect on my end outcome. To be honest I get my panties more in a twist with fishbotters or even RMT FC parties than this, simply because it is far easier to conceive of a scenario of those activities inconveniencing me than a NNI speed run group.
Remind me how people getting to Floor 100 causes problems for me, because I just can't see it.
How exactly is one individual or even an entire endgame Linkshell for that matter affected by another group of players having NNI on farm status using DAT swaps?
I mean think about it, there are plenty of scenarios where that very question has vastly different outcomes in other MMOs. Ie. Buying virtual currency, using 3rd party botting applications, win sharing in PvP, exploiting boss loopholes, etc etc. Yet, in FFXI... I just don't see it as an issue. Frankly, this is one of the only MMOs I have played over the years were, what another guild or even single player does via "cheating" never directly inhibits another player in a negative manner aside from a possible inconvenience.
A static NNI group that blazes through the content has absolutely ZERO effect on my end outcome. To be honest I get my panties more in a twist with fishbotters or even RMT FC parties than this, simply because it is far easier to conceive of a scenario of those activities inconveniencing me than a NNI speed run group.
Remind me how people getting to Floor 100 causes problems for me, because I just can't see it.
Skewed sense of event balance?
Right now, I'd correlate this to Salvage pre-cell box or Einherjar when everything linked. Might people have won now and then? Sure. Did it make the event any more fun without them? Not really. Yet, should SE ever cast their eye on the event again, seeing a higher expected value of HQ armor will suggest that everything's A-OK and no work is needed. Needless to say, you'll find a lot of players who would disagree.
It might not hurt you directly, but it doesn't help. The social muck that comes up between the players themselves is just poo-flavored icing.
"But the stopper!" It's not an entry-level fix like the other mentioned events got. I'm gonna take a stab and say that SE didn't actually expect people to get to 100 so quickly, so having someone not only get that high, but exceed it is kind of telling on their launch with preventative measures and some common sense. I mean, nobody ever sat at the little dev pow wow and thought, "Hey guys, wouldn't it suck if someone landed on floor 101+ with a multi-jump and not see the end boss?" Nevermind the issue of actually getting there is where most of this bickering lies.
Right now, I'd correlate this to Salvage pre-cell box or Einherjar when everything linked. Might people have won now and then? Sure. Did it make the event any more fun without them? Not really. Yet, should SE ever cast their eye on the event again, seeing a higher expected value of HQ armor will suggest that everything's A-OK and no work is needed. Needless to say, you'll find a lot of players who would disagree.
It might not hurt you directly, but it doesn't help. The social muck that comes up between the players themselves is just poo-flavored icing.
"But the stopper!" It's not an entry-level fix like the other mentioned events got. I'm gonna take a stab and say that SE didn't actually expect people to get to 100 so quickly, so having someone not only get that high, but exceed it is kind of telling on their launch with preventative measures and some common sense. I mean, nobody ever sat at the little dev pow wow and thought, "Hey guys, wouldn't it suck if someone landed on floor 101+ with a multi-jump and not see the end boss?" Nevermind the issue of actually getting there is where most of this bickering lies.
Violence good. Sexy bad. Yay America.
I don't think they'll really see the number of HQ gear out there and think the system is fine though. They know people cheat at it. People have been jailed, banned, etc because of it. I'd certainly hope that they realize the win rates are a bit skewed because of this.
The bigger issue is if they care enough to put this high enough on their priority list to do something about.
The bigger issue is if they care enough to put this high enough on their priority list to do something about.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/stormrage/Yoichinoyumi/advanced
http://www.opponent-guild.com/
http://www.opponent-guild.com/
AFAIK, the only time people have been jailed or banned for this was when someone called a GM on them while they were in NI. There is no evidence that GMs are patrolling NI at all, but there is some evidence that JPs are randomly GMing every group that enters.
Seriha wrote:
Yet, should SE ever cast their eye on the event again, seeing a higher expected value of HQ armor will suggest that everything's A-OK and no work is needed.
The number of Coruscantis disagrees with you. I highly doubt SE checks the numbers of gear received to see if their event is working.
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