Nyzul Uncharted: nice gear, cheater!Follow

I think you misunderstand that post. The Pergatory wasn't saying that everyone who doing this is acting entitled. He was saying the way realix was talking about his methods makes him sound entitled.

I think that Raelix may be acting very exaggerated to prove a point, but there's nothing entitled (acting, or sounding, or being) about Neo Nyzul because it's a senseless event. I think that word gets bandied about more than it should. I think that while I generally like and agree with Pergatory, I think Perg's wrong here. And that doesn't mean I side with outright cheating, including things botting or flee-hacking or clipping, but hell, I already border on cheating because I like what Windower and Spellcast do to a game full of (as Raelix eloquently put it) ********* I think I agree with Raelix that those lamps are ********* And I think that means he's not acting entitled. Obviously, we are not directly entitled to just have the gear, which is unfortunate since it some of the only clear upgrades in the game for anyone but stuck in that event. I hope that clears up potential misunderstanding.

Some people have moral standards that others don't. As can be seen here, some people take issue to the notion of using .dat mods for a tactical advantage, whereas others find that the ends justify the means since the event itself is so excessively difficult. Everyone's going to have a differing opinion as to whether or not it's okay, so morality is going to be an issue even for something like this.

So exactly as you say the event is "senseless." Thusly what reason would you do it? The only reason everyone is doing this, for the gear. If it was truly to "make the event fun" you could go and have the same exact fun somewhere else without the use of these tools. So at the end of the day he talks about how these lamps are basically beneath him. He shouldn't have to do it so he won't do it. He artificially removed that aspect of nyzul from the game. Using the exact reasoning I listed here, which is why he sounds entitled.

Anyways at the end of the day you and I both know the lamps aren't the problem with nyzul becuase then Le olde nyzul would of been to tough to beat without extreme measures(Powder boots etc) too. It's the floor jumping.

Edited, Jun 27th 2012 2:03pm by Laxedrane

Huh, I guess you learn something new every day.

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Putting you in the 'people with a brain' file, because you summed it up nicely. Reducing bullsh*t is perfectly acceptable to a lot of players.

Tracking placeholders is something that can be done by various methods, renaming them because SE sends that information to the client is acceptable to most in the same way as seeing your party members' TP (as opposed to using something like Apradar to see the mob IDs directly, which gives other, shadier, advantages). So really it's the same argument as TParty; the info is sent to the client and hidden for bullsh*t reasons, so like invisible VNM locations if SE wanted to hide it they certainly could.

Easier inventory control is a matter of getting around the clunky PS2 inclined menu system, which is a matter of more SE bullsh*t about keeping clients similar.

Auto-passing things with LightLuggage always flew a little low for me, even if it was hilarious to pass all feathers and beaks to your party members so their inventories filled faster and you got all the Seals. It's still something you could do entirely manually for the same effect though, and something SE addressed by finally adding auto-sort of inventory (and I say 'finally' because 'three years ago' was still far too late).

If you made a big list of things SE could probably fix in a single weekend, most of them are likely already addressed by stuff like this. It's the fact that SE drags their feet or outright refuses to do anything about these issues that such measures are taken to deal with them. Lamps are definitely in that category to people who actually do the event, which I highly doubt includes any of the opposition in this thread.

Edited, Jun 27th 2012 8:07pm by Raelix

Didn't check overnight, but Laxedrane got the gist of my post, thanks Laxedrane! And Mikeyc, I'm in total agreement.


If it's a senseless event, then why do it? The drops are fantastic, yes, but none of them will change how you play your job. None of them are required for any particular other event.

So why do Raelix and others feel entitled to cheat in order to win it? If he didn't feel entitled to win Neo-Nyzul, he wouldn't have any reason whatsoever to cheat at it. He'd simply do something else, or do it legit like I do.


Feel free to check my FFXIAH equipment history. I've got two Nares and two Phorcys, no cheating involved. [Edit: Ok... it seems FFXIAH.com still doesn't register those items, but trust me I have them.] You don't need to cheat to win Nyzul, in fact it doesn't even improve your odds that much. I'd say you go from maybe 90% luck (10% win chance with a really good group) to maybe 70-80% luck (20-30% win chance, again with a really good group).

Again, this is all based around your sense of entitlement. You feel you deserve to be able to beat this event under easier conditions than SE did, and so you cheat to improve your odds. You can cut it any way you like, but this is what it boils down to in the end. Why else would you swap lamp dats? "To make life easier"? Please. If you want an easier life, play an easier game. Don't lower the bar on something other players have to do the legit way, and cheapen the experience for everyone else, resulting in threads like this where anyone who has Neo-Nyzul gear is assumed to be a cheater.

Edited, Jun 28th 2012 8:17am by Pergatory

There isn't one.

So wtf is 'the oppositions' damn point? Everyone that dat swaps needs to get down on one knee and beg for forgiveness? Everyone agrees this sh*t is a miserable excuse for content. Everyone recognizes SE isn't going to be responsive by any 'reasonable' measure of time or effect. Camp 1 Says @#%^ this. I'm taking sh*t into my own hands because SE has proven useless. Camp 2 is saying no guys! That's BAD try filing a formal complaint instead!

Does that about cover the last 2 pages of circular back and forth? Where are the SOLUTIONS? All this talk about the leetists that need gear for their self esteem vs the casuals are only jealous of the leetists gear is gratuitous generalization of both camps. Quit demonizing each other in some @#%^ed up online class warfare. NO ONE is pointing out that this event is @#%^ing IMPOSSIBLE fir the 99% casuals that dont have relics and crap or half the jobs leveled and geared. You want to talk about haves and have nots quit ******** about this moral high horse sh*t and talk about how to make content accessible. Make pld useful without an ochain. Make war useful without ukko. Or sit here and rail on the moral differences between dat modding mithra into lingerie vs lamps.

I don't know wtf the non cheaters are demanding from the cheaters. An apology? Of what value is that on the internet? Fight fir days in a thread until some Just admit it'? There is no justice in that. The event is still in accessible to any but the top. The event will still be reviled and hated. SE will still be unresponsive, but we have a moral victory on Alla gaiz! According to the logic proposed earlier in this thread, everyone ******** about cheaters should stop posting here and go make a stink on the official forums because that's how you enact change, and if SE doesn't dealbwith the evil hackers then you just didn't complain loud enough. So follow your own avice. This whole thread is ridiculous at this point.

Edit. Spelling and crap sucks. Deal with it I'm phone posting. Anyone have a 3rd party app that will fix up my spacing mishaps and misclicks with touch keyboard? My phones plain Jane version is obviously inadequate, or is that crossing a moral line in the sand?
Edited, Jun 28th 2012 3:04pm by Banalaty

Edited, Jun 28th 2012 3:09pm by Banalaty

I like this angle, but then again, I'm a total casual.

The thing is a lot of people (see: voidwatch "empy onry" threads) don't see a problem with locking out the majority of the playerbase from new content. On one hand that really annoys me, on the other hand I just don't care that much. I can see the difficulty in a sense - if the content is tuned for people like me, then it won't be a challenge for people like Raelix.On the other hand, it becomes sort of a "we'd hire you but you don't have experience" type of thing, where if you're cut out from leading edge content, you're always left behind cause you don't have the gear (experience) to move forward.

Then again a lot of people are happy to rail on about how easy it is to get an empy etc... which of course, completely disregards the fact that they aren't really something you can solo (especially if you don't DB) and for someone with limited playtime - they just aren't a realistic goal anyway. (I'd quit if I tried to make one, honestly, cause it would take all the joy out of the game for me)

Asking people to do a numbing task for 6 months or so of their paid playtime so that they can join in on newer content is a good way to ensure your playerbase stagnates.

That said, I have a lot of other things I can work on in the meantime, so I don't let it bother me too much. I do think it is bad design, however, and I am sure I will hit the wall again and unsub when it bugs me too much.

The event is horrible and I guarantee I hate anything that's random and inaccessible even more than any of you. My solution would be to make it work exactly like original Nyzul Isle with exactly the same rewards and distribution it has now. Remove random floor jumps and replace them with one-floor-at-a-time w/ savable progress. We'd all end up 15/15 on floor 100 gear eventually and that would be just fine with me. I'd also like to see all new rings/earrings/necklaces/ammo purchasable through large amounts of tokens. It wouldn't be a bad idea to add unique NMs to the standard floors with appraisal drops you don't see elsewhere. I wouldn't put anything gamebreaking on them, but offer some nice free side-grades as random rewards.

See while I'm harsh about cheating, I'm way nicer than any MMO dev will ever be. Even Yoshi_P can't compete. Of course, I can't actually fix the game. Only SE can do that. All I can really do is just tell them what they're doing wrong, tell them what I'd rather see, and don't do content I don't like.

Edited, Jun 28th 2012 3:40pm by Camiie

While flipping the bird at SE out of spite for their history of poor design choices doesn't bother me too much, what does and has been mentioned is the effect of false positives through the actions of the "cheaters" making the event seem more reasonable than it really is. Yes, SE is the type of company that will just let something in-game rot if it doesn't hold interest. Yes, they're the type that also seems to subscribe to the philosophy that only having a few of a given item in circulation (for all the wrong reasons) is a good thing.

It'd be nice if we could collectively just give SE the bird in protest, but it only takes one person to ruin that unity. It just snowballs from there as human nature kicks in and things like jealousy, competition, vanity, and so on come out to play. I have no trouble not doing NNI even though there are items that'd be nice to have. I do have a problem, though, if they wind up becoming some kind of standard expectation as "the new Perle set" or what have you, especially from SE themselves. In the end, I'd actually like to do NNI without super perfect party builds and get something to show for it at a reasonable clip, but that's just not possible in this incarnation of the event given my own sensibilities and sympathy toward others.