Shouts in JeunoFollow

Ahh so now her argument's shifted from "R/M/E are required!!!" to "Relics are REQUIRED!!!"

Upon which I'm laughing my a$$ off.

You speak about never seeing someone beat a Rag DRK, well you've been arguing with him for the last page or so.

"Legendary Class" weapons do not define a DD's capability, Homer Simpson with a 99 Rag is still Homer Simpson.

So I'll say it again, /shouts that judge their melee based on "R/M/E" are doomed to fail. My "Jingang Sword" DRK and Kano SAM has beaten too many people with legendary weapons, and while Rag has made by DRK "stronger" it was never a requirement. I had beat Crystal Dragon, topped the parse even (Kano SAM), a parse that included one Rag and one Emp DRK along with an Ukko WAR prior to finishing my own relic. Thus the "hardest" content was completed, without a legendary weapon mind you, and beat out the competition. Living breathing proof that it's not "required".

A Homer with a Rag (relic) is still A Homer. A good player without a Rag is still a good player. ALWAYS take a good player over a Homer even if they don't have a Relic. And if your attempting something like Prov without first making a list of known good players, then your wasting everyone's time.

Read it over again. If your judge of melee's is whether the possess a R/M/E then your judging the wrong thing. None of those weapons enhance your damage by a large enough margin to dictate win or lose and in some cases (Emp GSWD / PLM vs OaT) their weaker then a non-R/M/E solution. What you should be looking for is competent DD's who know who to use their macros and temp items, that more then anything else will determine their damage output and survivability. I'm living breathing proof that a non-R/M/E DD (Jingang GSWD DRK at the time) has more then enough damage output to beat all current content. I was carrying others (including R/E holders) not the one being carried. Fighter after Fight, Parse after Parse, victory after victory this has been proven to be true. Or a better way to say it, suddenly putting on a relic doesn't double your damage output. Proper macro and temp item usage does damage your damage output. Very few DD's actually know how to properly do macro placements and temp usage. Getting a R/E is ridiculously easy and anyone (good or bad) can do it, just takes time and friends.

Doomed to fail means using "/shout Emp/DD onry" has the exact same victory chance as "/shout DD onry" and a much lower chance then pulling DD's off a list of known good players.

I use it as a comedic term to refer to people who believe themselves above the "unwashed mass's" and somehow special.

You may observe them in their natural habitat here and *************************************************************************************************************** You can also see them on the OF claiming how abyssea has made the game "easy-mode" and saying how easy Nyzule-100 gear is to obtain.

If someone is an amazing player with high levels of skill and dedication yet hasn't acquired the above displayed attitude then their cool in my books.

Well, aren't you the accomplished one?

Out of curiosity, what is it that makes you think that what you do actually "means something"? Whatever that's supposed to mean, anyway.

Ha! Accomplishment does not always equal challenge - I never talked about accomplishment, I was talking about challenge, and in this sense they are two different things.

I wasnt boasting above - there are millions of people out there more accomplished than myself. I was simply saying I am challenged in other areas of my life where it counts, and I play ffxi for fun and to relax. Play for fun, play to blow off steam, play for the social aspect..... but if you are trying to find challenge, thats a different story.

I dont know about you, but for me, if I am attempting something challenging - like the people who want a challenge in this game - I put my all into it. I spend a hefty amount of time researching. I practice for hours using my full concentration, repeating it over and over again hundreds of times. In some cases I change my lifestyle (for jiu jitsu, for example, I lost 40 lbs and mostly eliminated beer and coffee, which was very difficult to do). To me, meeting a "challenge" means you throw yourself behind it. So when I hear people wanting a "challenge" in game I do find it kind of lame; for me, meeting a challenge means at the very least dozens if not thousands of hours of preparation, and if the only goal in mind is to defeat something in a video game, thats laughable. And if your only goal is to defeat the same monster 300X its VERY laughable. If you put as much time into a challenge as you should, and that challenge prep time is burned on a video game.....thats a good chunk of your youth, the time in your life MOST critical to setting the stage for most of your life. People SHOULDNT waste it on hundreds to thousands of hours on the "challenge" of a video game, because time doesnt cease to march on as you meet the challenge of AV. you will find yourself a middle aged man who didnt dedicate as much time to the things you should have - your family, your career, your health, your general knowledge of the world - because you dedicated that time to something that ultimately didnt help you in any way, shape, or form on the earth, having the servers at the bottom of some dumpster by 2030.

The meaning behind "means something" is pretty clear. For me, at this moment in time, thats my career and getting into shape. Other people meet challenges via their profession, enhancing their physical or mental state, volunteering their time helping people/animals/the environment, learning new skills, learning new things in general, etc. "Means something" means anything that enhances you professionally, physically, spiritually, or some other skill.

So I stand by my eye rolling at the people who want a "challenge" from a video game. I still stand by my feeling that they have invested a massive amount of time into their shinies and, if those shinies are easier to get, it invalidates a large part of their life they spent to get that shiny so they MUST hide behind the whole "challenge" argument.

Eh, it IS harsh, but......I know how many hours you have to dedicate to reach even the upper-mid tier in equipment. I know - because I have been there - you WILL push aside things you SHOULD be doing for most of the better equipment in this game - you WILL spend THOUSANDS of hours on your character once you hit that point, and once you do hit the thousands of hours mark, its hard to argue that time in your young adulthood was spent wisely. This game wasnt designed primarily for fun - remember, SE is a business. The game was designed to primarily keep you playing / paying with timesinks and low drop rates (which I guess some people confuse for a challenge). Fun was a bullet point, sure, but its not the main reason this game exists.

I realized this after playing for 5 years - after you hit the 3k hours into the game you realize you are a loser and you have to change it. Note I didnt say loser flat out though - I said currently a loser, meaning you arent doomed to being one :)

At 32, with a career and a family now, I look back and realize the time I spent on the "challenging" points of the game was just wasted time in my youth, and nothing more. Again, this is why I cringe at people who want a "challenge" in a video game, because to me, all they are asking for is the chance to burn precious time in their young adulthood over nothing of value. Play ffxi to have fun. Leave challenge to things that actually matter.

Edited, May 24th 2012 11:15am by ManifestOfKujata

Actually I haven't been able to bring my DRK to dragon yet, unfortunately. WHM is my primary job, have R/M/E (all three) on that job as well as Arise, so when it comes time for dragon I'm pretty much WHM every time. The few times I haven't been WHM, I've been on SMN because I have a bit of a reputation on that job as well, which isn't hard considering most SMN are downright awful. DRK is actually my weakest job. I'm really not sure how I'm able to do as well as I do with it, I guess just equipment and the fact that I really try.

Hard to say how I'd do. While dragon is a zerg, it's a fairly long one. Most zergs occur within the span of Perfect Defense but dragon in my experience usually takes 2-3 times that long. I wouldn't be surprised if I have no chance to keep up with a Ragnarok, but I'm also willing to bet I wouldn't be obliterated by the Rag. Not enough to say that my spot was wasted or should've been another DD, anyway.


No one is passing judgment on a DD because of lack of a R/M/E, they just aren't willing to go out on a limb for someone without R/M/E. I think that's the biggest gap in this whole discussion. One side is saying "I'm not willing to go out on a limb for a non-relic DD" and the other side is saying "But sometimes they're better! You can't just say there's no way they can compete!" The two opinions are not mutually exclusive.


If you've never found a challenge in this game, then you haven't been trying, and I pity you. I got news for you too, most likely your friends have been carrying you on their coat tails and you never even realized it. You probably think the game is easy because they do all the work for you.

This is a game with a great deal of depth and has many jobs with an amazing level of complexity. Not all jobs, mind you, but some. That's why WHM is my favorite job in the game: it can never be mastered. It's an incredibly hard job to do "perfectly" because there are so many variables and it's all reactive. Proactive jobs are easy, I agree, but reactive ones like healing & tanking can be extremely challenging.


What is your idea of fun if not a challenge? To me, if something isn't a challenge, it isn't fun. Your concept of idling and wasting time away for pure "fun" sounds more wasteful to me than looking for a challenge in a video game.

Edited, May 24th 2012 8:36am by Pergatory

Mocking the mere mention of real life surely builds your case, and it surely hasnt been done by millions of internet trolls when clearly they have an argument.



Yes, we are talking about the English language. If you need help with it, I can certainly help.

Boasting is self admiration. I said what I do for a living and one of my other hobbies. I never made the claim I was great at what I do, which WOULD be boasting, and I even went as far to say (in the next post) that basically I am nowhere near the top of my field. I never claimed I tear things up on the jiu jitsu mat, THAT would be boasting - in fact, I have been beat by them every practice for the last several months. So if you consider me simply stating what I do for a living and another one of my hobbies "boasting" - and even going as far as admitting I am mediocre at both - I really dont know what to tell you. Our definition of boasting is pretty different. Both things are challenging though. And again, if you were skilled in deciphering context from a post, you would have seen I was concentrating on the "attempt challenging things" angle and not the boasting angle.




I assure you, as a middle-of-the-road employee I am not telling anyone what they should want in life - in fact, I am happy they are burning their youth on meaningless sh*t, because their is a chance that they would actually be skilled at what I do for a living and I would be pushed even further down the mediocrity totem pole, so its not just "lucky for the rest of us," its lucky for me too. Now, I always like to see people in a better spot - even if that spot is above me - but if they are lazy, or if they are too stupid to realize some relic is worth far less than concentrating on other real life endeavors, @#%^ em. I benefit.


Edited, May 24th 2012 12:13pm by ManifestOfKujata

Ok, allow me to backpedal a bit. There are things that are difficult to do in game, but when most people say "there is no more challenge in this game," they are usually saying "it takes less time to get shinies in this game, so I am going to ***** about how the challenge is gone."

Honestly, think about it. Was Fafnir hard, or was it the spawn time/claim bots that made him frustrating? After we got the strat down, was Kirin hard? With 18 people, was U/O in limbus hard, or was it just a cockblock to fight them because of the chip farming? Dynamis lord was hard unless you brought the appropriate jobs (read: RDM/DRKs for CS stun) and an acceptable amount of them. People love to reminisce about the "difficulty" of ffxi past, but .... outside of AV and PW, everything in the game was fairly middle of the road difficulty. It was the spawn times/drop rates that were the biggest cockblock, so when people yearn for the "challenge" of yesteryear its hard to not think they arent yearning for the challenge but for the exclusivity of the equipment.

"Challenge" back then really just meant time sink, so I do reject the idea of "challenge" when the people who ***** about it speak up.

Thanks for assuming I rode the coat tails of my friends though. I have WHM levelled and almost always go as whm (because lets face it, when you have WHM you are asked to go WHM...look me up on ffxiah, the last time I logged in I went WHM and thats not rare :/)....so I am not sure how your group can win if you are the whm - arguably one of the tougher jobs - and you are riding their coattails, but w/e.




Theres nothing I can say to this, so I just rated up ^^

Edited, May 24th 2012 1:10pm by ManifestOfKujata

Grats on the degree!

Any my playtime is not 3k hours, sadly - i was just throwing that out there. Its actually somewhere just north of a year.

I dont know though....dont you ever think that you could have your doctorate by now if you hadnt spent the 5 years being a bored housewife? For me personally, I look at my year playtime and think "I could have spent that time moving up the corp. ladder," or "I could have spent that time losing the extra 50 lbs by going to the gym, so I dont have health problems later in life."

Again, I am not rallying against playing games, just people who scream for a challenge but what they are really asking for are needless timesinks so their equipment can remain exclusive. Although, for me, I do think I have played too much in the past, and I realize that while not all of that time was lost (because we all need relaxing time), but a huge chunk of it was a waste.

I don't know that I'd agree completely, though I won't disagree completely either. What I do feel is that most of the things you mentioned, even as simple as Fafnir, were a challenge at one time. As more equipment and merits became available, as tricks like standing on his paws were discovered, as people learned not to flail him, and later as level caps rose, yes they did get easier. However, that's kind of how it goes with MMOs. Things are very hard when released, but become easier. Look at the worst example: AV. He was a nightmare, incredibly challenging. Nobody beat him for a long time. Now he can be killed with 6 or 7 people. I would not call AV "challenging" anymore, but he certainly was at one point.

There content now that is challenging, such as Neo-Nyzul and Legion. I'll bet a few years from now, Legion will be farmed like Dynamis.


Fair enough, you are right. The assumption I made was that you're one of those people who thinks the game is easy because you don't try very hard. As a WHM, that's pretty difficult to do. You're absolutely right. I do, however, find it surprising then that you still think there's so little challenge in the game.

As a WHM, I'm constantly challenging myself in everything I do. Even fights that many people consider "simple" are not simple to me. Maybe it's because I take healing so seriously, but I feel there's no limit to what a good healer can do. No matter how fast you remove ailments, it could always be faster. No matter how good you are at preventing death, you could have always been a little better. Does it necessarily change the course of the battle? No, but it can make the experience more enjoyable for everyone. DD's love playing unimpeded by status ailments, slow healing, lack of buffs, and the like; and as a healer I love giving them that environment to play in. That's where I find my challenge, and like I said you can find these challenges even in simple events. You just have to look for them, and constantly push yourself to perform better.

Wasn't your last deployment to New York to do crowd control during the 9/11 remembrance services?

Edited, May 24th 2012 4:33pm by jtftaru

Actually the "optimal strategy" of Neo Nyzul is already being discovered and quite a large population of player with a good static already obtained at least 1 set of gears.
DRKx4+SCHx2 set up, powder boots rotation etc. If you see JP Nyzul static recruitment msg or seacom, almost everyone is looking for optimal jobs: DRK and SCH.