Shouts in JeunoFollow

So I'm curious about some of the shouts I see in Jeuno. Specifically why do so many events require an Empy/Relic DD? And what weapons qualify as empyrean weapons? For example, for swords there's the Almace and Brunello and Shikargar, etc...aren't all of these considered empyrean weapons or is the Almace the real deal?

And I see a lot of shouts for parties in Abyssea FC zone. What is Abyssea FC? I realize a lot of these shouts are for parties looking for someone to pay them to be a leech but I was just curious about it (in case I ever want to go there someday).

Any info is much appreciated. Thanks!

In my experience, if a group is shouting for "empy only!" and they have a reasonable leader, you can explain your current gear on the job they still want and your ability to play it, your experience, your macros, your skill levels, etc etc and they'll take you even if you "only" have a second or third best weapon, especially if you're a well known good player on the server.

There are also the unreasonable ones who think that a ****** player with an Empyrean is better than a good player without one. That's their problem.

I'm technically not brand new. I quit FFXI over a year ago and just recently came back. So there are new things that I'm not knowledgeable about since returning. I really was curious whether any named weapon in the Magian Weapon Trials were considered empyrean and now I know that's not the general consensus of the players. Of course, that really won't determine which weapon I decide to work on since I have my own tastes and playstyle but it's helpful information nonetheless.

As for the Fell Cleave in Abyssea thing, I had no idea that's really what FC meant. I honestly thought it was a separate zone that only these elite shouters knew about. So thanks for clearing that up for me.

Anyway, I didn't mean to offend anyone...I just had some honest questions and I think I got some helpful answers from the Allakhazam community. So thanks for that!

Thanks as well for honestly answering my curious question.

There's only so much skill you need to zerg a VW NM /shrug. You want to kill them fast before they murder you so that's why some people put the requirements so ludicrust high I guess.

Empyrean weapons are not a high or difficult requirement.
The idea is to typically find competent and dedicated players*, not just big damage (though that is part of it) since DDs should also be focused on hitting procs.
BLM will never see this treatment because Meteor is probably the last spell a BLM will cast in Voidwatch.
As mentioned, if you send /tells to leaders, the worthwhile ones will be able to figure out if you're up to snuff.

*I don't know if there is any correlation, but it's easier than shouting "Join my party, but first, take this quiz!" or being an ******* and kicking players after inviting once the leader is able to check the player's gear.

All the reasonable leaders will realize this when you tell them and invite you anyway.

I think he was referring to the empyrean rhongomiant being inferior to the OAT Corseca.

We were in a PUG one day and the leader had 1 spot open they couldn't fill. They were shouting for an empy/relic DD. Another member mentioned a friend had DRG that would like to join and the leader asked if they had an empy. Everyone in the PUG started LOL'ing in party chat. She honestly thought and argued that a DRG had to have an empy to be any good. Finally she accepted the DRG who was geared to the nines and knew how to play their job and get wyvern staggers.

...or maybe, just MAYBE, many of these leaders just don't want to bring some nose picker or a fairly new FFXI player to their not-so-easy fight?

Are there ******* leaders out there that only shout for the best? Sure. Are there players that are so stupid they can cause runs to fail? Absolutely. Just as we can't classify every pink ninja as a moron, you shouldn't classify every person who shouts for selective players as ********. You can educate the leaders, you can educate the noobs- but not everyone will understand*, so before jumping to conclusions- see who is the one shouting and if you're interested in the event, talk to them. If that person is a jerk, write it down, blist them, I don't care- you never have to deal with them again. In any case, I'm sure these leaders don't like being judged just like you probably don't like being judged as a noobish gimp because you're missing something like an empy weapon.



*Spent more than enough time in dynamis to figure this one out

Voidwatch has put the game in a strange state. It's an activity that encourages the involvement of as many different jobs as possible, which most players will agree is a good thing. Combine that with how players are told that they should organize a run themselves if they want to get something done, rather than shouting and asking if anyone else is planning to do a run. Combine that with a level of difficulty that not just any ramble of adventurers can successfully clear by just auto-attacking (another aspect most players will agree is a good thing).

You end up with a situation where players are trying to recruit members on jobs that they may be entirely unfamiliar with. I've never done Voidwatch, let alone try to organize a run. But if I were put in that situation, I'd have no idea what a well equipped DRG looks like. Or a DRK. Or a SAM. Or the 10 other jobs I haven't leveled. I'm sure there are plenty of people who are really knowledgeable and know what the best options are for all 20 jobs. But I'm also betting that many of those players run in the same circles. So that expert knowledge is concentrated among a handful of groups.

That's asking a lot from someone trying to organize a run. I think it's reasonable to expect someone that's organizing a run to have done research on the NM that they are targeting. But to also know what's acceptable for all 18 to 20 different jobs? It's no wonder that many leaders are simply going the route of requiring empy/relic holders. The alternative is to simply ask someone, "are you good?" and then taking them at their word.

I respectfully disagree.

You have to dig a little deeper to discover the real issue here, which is one that can't be avoided in an MMO: You have one huge persistent world with everyone playing together. This means casual players playing by the same rules as the hardcore players, and mingling together. This brings up an inherent flaw: You can't make content difficult enough to keep the hardcore players busy without excluding the casual players.

This is what you're seeing when you declare that these fights are "overtuned" in difficulty, and your implied solution seems to be making the fights easier but that is not a solution that will solve the problem. It will just result in hardcore players getting bored again, and SE needing to release some new difficult or grindy content.

The solution is not to make things easier. The solution is for casual players to accept the fact that they will not be able to do everything in this game. Bismarck is not casual content. Can casual players reach & beat it? Yes, absolutely, but they'll need the help of hardcore players most likely in order to do it. Legion is even more at the extreme end; even the hardcore players can't beat it right now, and as a result you hear people screaming that it's too hard. This may be partially true, but I don't think it is to the extent that most people believe it to be. Look at Neo-Nyzul, originally people were saying it's physically impossible to win floor 100 without cheating. People were swearing up and down that there's just no way. I've since beaten it 3 times without cheats, and my group is getting consistently better to the point where we pretty much always make it at least to the 80's. Turns out it wasn't impossible, just required practice, teamwork, and the right setup. I wouldn't be surprised if in 6 months casual players are killing Bismarck without any hardcore players helping.

This is the inevitable result of having a persistent world with casual & hardcore players mingling together. If you think you can "fix" it so that it's fair to everyone, then you're likely only talking about fixing it so that it's fair to yourself. The real solution is the one SE has taken: Things are hard as hell when released and only get easier as the strategy is nailed down by hardcore players, and as new gear is released to make the casual players stronger. Casual players of a year or two down the road will be as strong as the hardcore players of today.

I feel pretty confident in saying there is absolutely no shortage of content for casual players to do in the mean time. You say relic & mythic items should be luxury and not required; which is the case, just like the drops from Bismarck are luxury and not required. The fights that require such hardcore players do not drop anything that is deemed "necessary" in current endgame.

There is no magic tier, which I think is kind of the point you were getting at. I mean there's stuff that casual players cannot really hope to do, such as win Neo-Nyzul, but that's not to say it's impossible. It just means you shouldn't be offended if someone would rather try to find a more hardcore player in their group for that kind of event. I firmly believe a group of 6 casual players could win Neo-Nyzul 100 with the right amount of luck, but it would take probably dozens and dozens of runs and flawless teamwork. Most people who are hardcore don't want to deal with that, they'd rather have hardcore players and reduce it from several dozen runs to 5 or so runs per win which is about the record that my current group has.

I guess my point wasn't that casual players should just give up, but that they shouldn't take it personal when they're turned away from a group for not having good enough equipment if they haven't put a lot into a single job.


Then why don't you have a relic weapon? Relic weapons are casual content now. You can solo farm Dynamis. Empyreans are also casual content now. Just because they take a lot of time doesn't mean they aren't casual, you can do them over long periods in small chunks. There is absolutely no excuse not to have a relic or empyrean if you're serious about a DD job, even as a casual player, especially if you've been playing as long as you say. There's also trials. Several trail weapons are competitive with relic/empy weapons.


You're confusing two separate things I'm saying:
1. You don't NEED a relic/mythic/empy to do 99% of the content in the game. There are places you'll struggle to do damage without one, though. Bismarck is a prime example, in fact the only one I can think of. Perhaps Ig-Alima as well, I've seen people struggle to deal damage to him. The list is not very big, and none of them are considered mainstream content or necessary to beat for any reason.
2. You DO need a couple relic/mythic/empy IN THE GROUP to beat Bismarck. You can't just have an alliance full of casual players. You need at least a couple hardcore DDs (I'd say at least two) and a hardcore PLD, and ideally a hardcore healer as well or a casual healer with good reflexes. However, there can be casual players on less key jobs. BRD or COR for example doesn't need much of anything to be successful.

I guess where I'm going with this is that it isn't black & white. You can't draw a line in the sand and say "no casuals past this point." However, you also can't blame people for not wanting casuals if they think they already have as many as they can effectively use. There are situations where a casual player will not suffice, but you never need ALL hardcore players. Sometimes you need at least one or two, but you never need 6, or 18. Well, except for Legion apparently, which is why nobody is winning.

Edited, May 9th 2012 8:26am by Pergatory