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[dev1069] Corsair Job Adjustments (was forum=10) (was forumFollow

#27 Jan 23 2012 at 5:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Runespider wrote:
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Admittedly I was a very sad COR through much of Abyssea, but VW and likely Legion will make very good use of COR.
If you haven't experienced getting 65 TP back from a WS with Miser's, atmacite of Discipline, you don't know what you are missing.

Having way more fun on COR at VW events than I have the last couple year. Too bad I only seem to get these lousy logs all the time.


WF Cor is a fairly broken job in VW, similar to how war is. I would be pretty supsrised if a nerf wasn't coming for wildfire in the same way they are ripping apart Ukon atm. The sheer quantitiy of weapon skills a good WF cor can pump out is pretty insane, don't even have to worry about acc issues.



I think WF is just fine....so far the only VWNM that WF is especially strong is just that Flan in bubu(since it has PDT-), although I also heard some pt able to use pop 2k+ average Ukko on that NM.

It's magical and has no racc issues, but also not easy to buff to 3k+ dmg(I think so far I only popped 3k+ WF on flan in bubu, rest other VW almost never broke 3k), while other strong physical WS like resolution/Ukko can hit 3~5k easily with right buffs.

If they wanna nerf everything, they should nerf resolution too ;(
#28 Jan 23 2012 at 11:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Runespider wrote:
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Admittedly I was a very sad COR through much of Abyssea, but VW and likely Legion will make very good use of COR.
If you haven't experienced getting 65 TP back from a WS with Miser's, atmacite of Discipline, you don't know what you are missing.

Having way more fun on COR at VW events than I have the last couple year. Too bad I only seem to get these lousy logs all the time.


WF Cor is a fairly broken job in VW, similar to how war is. I would be pretty supsrised if a nerf wasn't coming for wildfire in the same way they are ripping apart Ukon atm. The sheer quantitiy of weapon skills a good WF cor can pump out is pretty insane, don't even have to worry about acc issues.


Any DD with Tacticians and Misers rolls can pump out WS. WF isn't more powerful than the best physical WS out there. I'm just starting my VW sojourn and without ascetics tonic, I'm generally hitting 1.2-1.5k and that is only a couple pieces short of an optimum WF build.

Admittedly COR is good in VW And we're seeing bandwagonners come out of the woodwork, but it does actually require decent gear and an empyrean WS to shine in a "broken" fashion. I doubt SE will do a lot. They need to nerf BST before they need to wreck COR. No COR is ever going to solo all of Abyssea and Dynamis like today's BSTs are doing.
#29 Jan 23 2012 at 12:44 PM Rating: Decent
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need to nerf bst? Why, because BST can spend a fortune to solo outdated content? Lots of jobs can solo in dynamis just fine. The only things bst can solo are either

a) not worth soloing except for giggles
b) olde content that doesn't matter (see above)
c) give limited drops because bst doesn't have many staggers
d) cost a fortune
e) are soloable by plenty of other jobs

add on, speaking of VW - as far as I've seen no one takes a bst to voidwatch except out of pity

Edited, Jan 23rd 2012 10:46am by Olorinus
#30 Jan 23 2012 at 6:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Dartagnann wrote:
Runespider wrote:
Quote:
Admittedly I was a very sad COR through much of Abyssea, but VW and likely Legion will make very good use of COR.
If you haven't experienced getting 65 TP back from a WS with Miser's, atmacite of Discipline, you don't know what you are missing.

Having way more fun on COR at VW events than I have the last couple year. Too bad I only seem to get these lousy logs all the time.


WF Cor is a fairly broken job in VW, similar to how war is. I would be pretty supsrised if a nerf wasn't coming for wildfire in the same way they are ripping apart Ukon atm. The sheer quantitiy of weapon skills a good WF cor can pump out is pretty insane, don't even have to worry about acc issues.


Any DD with Tacticians and Misers rolls can pump out WS. WF isn't more powerful than the best physical WS out there. I'm just starting my VW sojourn and without ascetics tonic, I'm generally hitting 1.2-1.5k and that is only a couple pieces short of an optimum WF build.

Admittedly COR is good in VW And we're seeing bandwagonners come out of the woodwork, but it does actually require decent gear and an empyrean WS to shine in a "broken" fashion. I doubt SE will do a lot. They need to nerf BST before they need to wreck COR. No COR is ever going to solo all of Abyssea and Dynamis like today's BSTs are doing.



There are no reason to nerf BST considering this job is not used anywhere else....(maybe WoE...maybe), if they nerf BST in dyna then there won't be a place for this job at all.

Also soloing Abyssea on BST is pointless without proc, it's only good at solo dyna.

For some reason when ppl see BST solo stuff that other job can't, they usually got jealous XD. But that's the reason why SE make this job, no?



#31 Feb 02 2012 at 4:41 PM Rating: Good
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Camate wrote:
As a result of the development team’s investigation as well as feedback we received, we will be once again changing the effect of Gallant’s Roll from “damage reduction” to “increased defense.”

This roll’s defense increase effect will increase a character’s defense by a percentage, so characters with already high defense will benefit largely from this.

As a different idea we looked into “physical damage reduction,” but the effect itself increased by a percentage, which made it not possible to make the effect values very large thus creating the concern that the roll itself wouldn’t be too useful. Paladin’s who have a wealth of damage reduction gear would cap out too easily and attackers/back-line jobs would become disproportionate by having this along with other high defense stats, so we determined this to be an unrealistic route.


http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/19793-dev1069-Phantom-Roll-Effect-Adjustments-feedback?p=272830#post272830
#32 Feb 02 2012 at 9:58 PM Rating: Decent
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nice SE now that COR has Protect, can RDM cast temper of foos with big sticks?
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#33 Feb 02 2012 at 10:02 PM Rating: Decent
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It was a Phalanx effect before. Percentage defense might actually be useful though, since that's pretty much equivalent to -PDT without having to be under PDT cap. They better be pretty decent numbers though, because 10% more defense is actually only 9.1% less damage taken, but still...
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#34 Feb 02 2012 at 10:10 PM Rating: Good
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As a result of the development team’s investigation as well as feedback we received, we will be once again changing the effect of Gallant’s Roll from “damage reduction” to “increased defense.”


Starts out useless, consider changing it into something situationally useful, then make it useless again.

Never change, SE.
#35 Feb 03 2012 at 9:19 AM Rating: Decent
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There are no reason to nerf BST considering this job is not used anywhere else....(maybe WoE...maybe), if they nerf BST in dyna then there won't be a place for this job at all.

Also soloing Abyssea on BST is pointless without proc, it's only good at solo dyna.

For some reason when ppl see BST solo stuff that other job can't, they usually got jealous XD. But that's the reason why SE make this job, no?



Well it seems SE agreed with me. Not that I'm proud of that fact.

As far as changing Gallants roll from phalanx to defense +, I'd have to see the results. Protect has always been somewhat meh in its effects but it might make a similar difference to a weak phalanx effect overall. As a phalanx effect it was only going to be helpful to FC burns. As a defense effect it might help agianst larger game.
#36 Feb 03 2012 at 3:48 PM Rating: Default
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Protect is great when applied to % DEF increases such as Cocoon, and possibly this. Protect becomes 120DEF under Cocoon, which becomes 144 DEF with 20% food. If this adds a further 20% increase you are looking at either

80*1.70 (if cocoon)*1.20 = 163 DEF which is twice the effect of protect.

or (depending on how it is counted)

80*1.50*1.20*1.20 = 172 Defense.

(included cocoon for max defense take it in and out as you will).
(RDM can add Bio III @ 20% with cor for a 25% or so increase to defense on top of that)

172*1.25 = 215 DEF.

Just from protect 5 on a PLD/BLU or BLU, or BLU+Diffusion with a RDM and COR that is a 268% increase, for only applying 115% in bonuses.

Its a nice situational buff imo.

Edited, Feb 3rd 2012 4:48pm by rdmcandie
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#37 Feb 03 2012 at 4:55 PM Rating: Good
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Bayohne wrote:

Since we didn’t provide enough background information along with our last post, I wanted to inform you all why we decided to change Gallant’s Roll’s effect to defense boost.

We plan on setting the value of the defense boost at around 30% when the highest number is rolled. This boost will be applied to the final defensive value after the effects of gear, abilities and spells are factored in and will reduce physical damage taken. This effect will vary based on the opponent’s strength and the player’s defense stats, but we expect this defense boost to be more significant than the originally planned Phalanx effect. (In addition, players can still reduce damage even further through gear and Phalanx.)

The effects of defense vary based on the opponent’s attack strength, so defense boost is more effective when fighting against stronger opponents compared with Phalanx, which has a fixed damage reduction. Defense boost also has a cumulative effect, which makes it more beneficial to paladins than physical damage reduction which becomes useless once the maximum limit is reached.

Therefore, we decided that making the roll a defense boost would be a more beneficial effect overall.


http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/19793-dev1069-Phantom-Roll-Effect-Adjustments-feedback?p=273887#post273887
#38 Feb 03 2012 at 7:07 PM Rating: Default
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80*1.50*1.20*1.20 = 172 Defense.


we have a winner.

base*spell*roll*food*(bioIIIs 17-25% DEF increase via 15-20% ATK down)*PDT value-Phalanx.

**** looks good. Nice change SE.
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#39 Feb 08 2012 at 6:02 PM Rating: Good
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Camate wrote:

There have been some comments from players mentioning that they don’t see the point of defense as a stat, so I’d like to go into some detail on it.

As defense increases over an enemy’s attack power, the amount of damage reduced gradually tapers off. If the enemy you are fighting is lower level and your defense is way higher, it becomes more difficult to gain large benefits even if you increase your defense.

In instances where your defense is reduced via an enemy action, where your character’s defense would normally be higher than an enemy’s attack power, and the gap between the two is narrowed, the amount of damage being reduced will start to vary largely. This shows that you’ll take more damage when your defense is lowered, giving meaning to the value of your defense.

Another easy way of feeling the effects of defense is to face off against an even match enemy and compare the damage received with your armor equipped and off.

Since the effects of defense increase as defense is stacked, the benefits are by no means small, so it would be really helpful if we could receive feedback with this in mind.

For reference, Mocchi provided some test data.

Setup

Compared physical damage taken between the following situations when fighting warrior-type monsters that were 15 levels higher than the level 99 PLD/WAR (defense 460) used for testing.


Naked/with Defender active/with Defender active + food effects (black curry bun)

Results

Naked (Defense 460): 245 damage
Defender (Defense 575): 216 damage
Defender + food (Defense 663): 197 damage


Depending on the situation, the numbers may not be the same, but this is simply intended to serve as reference.


http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/19793-dev1069-Phantom-Roll-Effect-Adjustments-feedback?p=276997#post276997
#41 Feb 08 2012 at 8:10 PM Rating: Good
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Getting high defense isn't so much the issue as it is the fact harder mobs are likely to be rocking high damage "weapons" at the standard 240 delay or less. This then feeds into their AoE physical WS where level correction and the fact they're probably 1.5x ATK higher or more over non-PLD player DEF contributes to that feeling defense is useless. This is partly why I've wanted to see RDM get a debuff that affects the level correction values of actions on and taken by the afflicted, basically leveling down a mob and possibly affecting available traits, spells, and TP moves in the process.
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#42 Feb 08 2012 at 8:37 PM Rating: Good
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This is partly why I've wanted to see RDM get a debuff that affects the level correction values of actions on and taken by the afflicted, basically leveling down a mob and possibly affecting available traits, spells, and TP moves in the process.


Really?
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#43 Feb 08 2012 at 9:00 PM Rating: Decent
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My bad, derp derp swordz.

Sorry you don't know me as well as you'd like to believe.
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#44 Feb 08 2012 at 10:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Zelduh wrote:
Gogo double soulvoice minne + fully meritted Protectra V with sheltered ring + taco + Defender + defense gear + taco + PLD Roll + Sandstorm + Boost-VIT + Bio III + Demoralizing Roar + Drown + Diffusion'd Harden Shell!


Still wouldn't be better than -PDT capped, Scherzo, Earthen armor setup
#45 Feb 10 2012 at 8:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Seriha wrote:
My bad, derp derp swordz.

Sorry you don't know me as well as you'd like to believe.


No I was just confused at how you expect SE to give an enfeeble to RDM that is essentially, Dia/Bio/Gravity/Blind/ABS-DEX,AGI,STR,INT,MND,VIT,CHR(or Frost Drown Rasp, Choke Shock Burn.), Elejitsu MEVA-, (or, AMII MEVA, Enspell MEVA, DeathBlossom MEVA) All in one go. Nothing to do with swords, all about what you are asking.

So again really?

(that is if you truly understand what you are asking.)


Edited, Feb 10th 2012 9:35pm by rdmcandie
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#46 Feb 10 2012 at 9:03 PM Rating: Good
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I'm more than aware of what I'm asking, thanks.

It's not like there things like cast time, MP costs, actual element, recast, and duration to consider. And that's before introducing a mechanic where multiple RDMs could cast the spell on the target, adding a level down per up to, say, 5. Plus it would go on to stack with things mentioned.

But if you just want to up and assume the spell being overpowered, that's your choice. Not like RDM's raining in enfeebling diversity and meaningful potency at present.
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#47 Feb 10 2012 at 11:16 PM Rating: Default
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So just to be clear you want RDM to be able to cast pretty much every status afflicting ability in the game, in one spell.

Nothing over powered about Lowering a mobs level, while increasing the value of attack, defense, strength, evasion, macc, strength, dexterity, charisma, mind, intelligence, vitality, agility, all at the same, within one spell, nothing at all.

But thats ok! it can stack with Dia/Bio, Gravity, Blind, Elejitsu, Abs-stat so that makes it OK.


Smiley: rolleyes

You better put out a lot, because this will get laughed off even the most junior devs desk.


Edited, Feb 11th 2012 12:19am by rdmcandie
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#48Erecia, Posted: Feb 11 2012 at 12:32 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Um. Yeah. rdmcandie is pretty much a ****, but he has a point on this one. Unless this debuff was stupidly small (ie not worth casting at all) then that's ridiculously overpowered.
#49 Feb 11 2012 at 10:14 AM Rating: Good
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I'm kind of shocked there's not more negative reaction here, given that, you know, defense's uselessness after level 50 is of memetic levels, and has been for as long as I've been playing. Smiley: laugh
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#50 Feb 11 2012 at 11:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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Lady Jinte wrote:
I'm kind of shocked there's not more negative reaction here, given that, you know, defense's uselessness after level 50 is of memetic levels, and has been for as long as I've been playing. Smiley: laugh

It was just explained above. Against mobs with high attack, 30% defense added after food/abilities/gear can result in much higher damage mitigation than a Phalanx effect.

When Ig-Alima is hitting you for 1000-1500 damage per attack, would you rather have 800 defense or take 20 less damage?
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Chew is being a lot more level-headed regarding the whole issue, which is strange because he's probably drunk.
#51 Feb 11 2012 at 11:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Chewzer wrote:
Lady Jinte wrote:
I'm kind of shocked there's not more negative reaction here, given that, you know, defense's uselessness after level 50 is of memetic levels, and has been for as long as I've been playing. Smiley: laugh

It was just explained above. Against mobs with high attack, 30% defense added after food/abilities/gear can result in much higher damage mitigation than a Phalanx effect.

When Ig-Alima is hitting you for 1000-1500 damage per attack, would you rather have 800 defense or take 20 less damage?


I'd rather have an offensive roll, since level correction makes the defense boost effectively nil and I'd have berserk up anyway
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

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