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#102 Nov 21 2010 at 11:32 PM Rating: Default
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chewzer wrote:
Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
chewzer wrote:
Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
chewzer wrote:
Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
chewzer wrote:
Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
chewzer wrote:
Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
chewzer wrote:
Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
Dartagnann wrote:
Last I checked, there was no prize for the most efficient NM kill. If you can do it with uber gear and windower, are you better than the group that does it with a few more people, a tank and average gear playing on PS2's?
You may want to check again. In the time it takes you to kill one nm, my group has killed 4. That's a pretty big prize if you ask me.
Lies. It takes you just as long to proc !! as any group can.
Unless we have 4 groups trying to proc !! on 4 different nms at once.
That's not even realistic, or efficient.
Yes it is.

rdm+blm can do 5/8 spells for grellow. Throw in a blu if you want to pull that up to 7/8.
whm, nin, war hits all the ws for red.
mnk+whm can do all of the blunt ws for blue.

rng can do 10/15 blue ws for piercing.


4 nms with !! only requires 8~ people.
That's your example of realism and efficiency?
8 people? Yes. Seems pretty realistic to me. It's definitely more efficient than fighting a single mob at once with 8+ people.
That WHM is pretty amazing. He keeps up with cures on 4 shadowless DDs who are being wailed on by 4 NMs that are getting constant TP feed, all while he's meleeing with a club so he can WS proc. I sure hope Lightsday doesn't come around, or he's really screwed!
I thought you said you weren't drunk? You must be if you think a single whm counts as 4 people.
Not entirely sure what you're talking about, but I was being nice and assuming only the WAR, MNK, RNG and BLM were pulling hate.
If you have 4 dds, you also have 4 whms. Having 4 whms may or may not be efficient, depending on what you're doing. If all you're doing is farming KIs, then the most efficient way would be to go with 6 whm, 6 wars, and 6 nins, then leave an hour later when you've got 2+ of each KI. If you're doing all kinds of different things, you'll obviously need a more varied group, which probably won't have more than 2, maybe 3 whms, so to do 4 nms, you need your rdm, blm (blu) team farming seal nms.


Oh lmao. I thought you were trying to suggest proc'ing all three !! on 4 different NMs at the same time with that exact setup, which is obviously just retarded. But the original point was you killing 4 NMs while proc'ing !! in the same amount of time that Dartagnann's group killed/proc'ed 1 NM while having more people, which I still say is unrealistic, especially considering that they're all geared up and inside Abyssea while your 4 groups are gearing specific jobs and waiting for their specific WS/spell proc windows to open. I understand the point you're trying to make though.
nuuuuu.

The only thing that you'd have to wait for is blue, and only if you want to make sure you definitely get it.

Anyway, you have completely missed the point. Being efficient is always better than not being efficient. How anyone could possibly argue otherwise is beyond me.
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#103 Nov 21 2010 at 11:34 PM Rating: Decent
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chewzer wrote:
OmegaTyrant wrote:
Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
chewzer wrote:
Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
chewzer wrote:
Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
chewzer wrote:
Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
chewzer wrote:
Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
chewzer wrote:
Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
[quote=Dartagnann]Last I checked, there was no prize for the most efficient NM kill. If you can do it with uber gear and windower, are you better than the group that does it with a few more people, a tank and average gear playing on PS2's?
You may want to check again. In the time it takes you to kill one nm, my group has killed 4. That's a pretty big prize if you ask me.
Lies. It takes you just as long to proc !! as any group can.
Unless we have 4 groups trying to proc !! on 4 different nms at once.
That's not even realistic, or efficient.
Yes it is.

rdm+blm can do 5/8 spells for grellow. Throw in a blu if you want to pull that up to 7/8.
whm, nin, war hits all the ws for red.
mnk+whm can do all of the blunt ws for blue.

rng can do 10/15 blue ws for piercing.


4 nms with !! only requires 8~ people.
That's your example of realism and efficiency?
8 people? Yes. Seems pretty realistic to me. It's definitely more efficient than fighting a single mob at once with 8+ people.
That WHM is pretty amazing. He keeps up with cures on 4 shadowless DDs who are being wailed on by 4 NMs that are getting constant TP feed, all while he's meleeing with a club so he can WS proc. I sure hope Lightsday doesn't come around, or he's really screwed!
I thought you said you weren't drunk? You must be if you think a single whm counts as 4 people.
Not entirely sure what you're talking about, but I was being nice and assuming only the WAR, MNK, RNG and BLM were pulling hate.
If you have 4 dds, you also have 4 whms. Having 4 whms may or may not be efficient, depending on what you're doing. If all you're doing is farming KIs, then the most efficient way would be to go with 6 whm, 6 wars, and 6 nins, then leave an hour later when you've got 2+ of each KI. If you're doing all kinds of different things, you'll obviously need a more varied group, which probably won't have more than 2, maybe 3 whms, so to do 4 nms, you need your rdm, blm (blu) team farming seal nms.
Quote:
Edit: this brings up a good question: I wonder if -agas can proc yellow on the non-targeted mobs.
I'd guess so, but since there's no reason to be fighting 2 nms right next to each other, i obviously don't know for sure.
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Rog and I are gentlemen. We take out edits and unnecessary spaces![/quote]Indeed. We like being efficient.
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#104 Nov 21 2010 at 11:34 PM Rating: Decent
Chewzer
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Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
chewzer wrote:
Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
chewzer wrote:
Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
chewzer wrote:
Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
chewzer wrote:
Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
chewzer wrote:
Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
chewzer wrote:
Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
[quote=Dartagnann]Last I checked, there was no prize for the most efficient NM kill. If you can do it with uber gear and windower, are you better than the group that does it with a few more people, a tank and average gear playing on PS2's?
You may want to check again. In the time it takes you to kill one nm, my group has killed 4. That's a pretty big prize if you ask me.
Lies. It takes you just as long to proc !! as any group can.
Unless we have 4 groups trying to proc !! on 4 different nms at once.
That's not even realistic, or efficient.
Yes it is.

rdm+blm can do 5/8 spells for grellow. Throw in a blu if you want to pull that up to 7/8.
whm, nin, war hits all the ws for red.
mnk+whm can do all of the blunt ws for blue.

rng can do 10/15 blue ws for piercing.


4 nms with !! only requires 8~ people.
That's your example of realism and efficiency?
8 people? Yes. Seems pretty realistic to me. It's definitely more efficient than fighting a single mob at once with 8+ people.
That WHM is pretty amazing. He keeps up with cures on 4 shadowless DDs who are being wailed on by 4 NMs that are getting constant TP feed, all while he's meleeing with a club so he can WS proc. I sure hope Lightsday doesn't come around, or he's really screwed!
I thought you said you weren't drunk? You must be if you think a single whm counts as 4 people.
Not entirely sure what you're talking about, but I was being nice and assuming only the WAR, MNK, RNG and BLM were pulling hate.
If you have 4 dds, you also have 4 whms. Having 4 whms may or may not be efficient, depending on what you're doing. If all you're doing is farming KIs, then the most efficient way would be to go with 6 whm, 6 wars, and 6 nins, then leave an hour later when you've got 2+ of each KI. If you're doing all kinds of different things, you'll obviously need a more varied group, which probably won't have more than 2, maybe 3 whms, so to do 4 nms, you need your rdm, blm (blu) team farming seal nms.


Oh lmao. I thought you were trying to suggest proc'ing all three !! on 4 different NMs at the same time with that exact setup, which is obviously just retarded. But the original point was you killing 4 NMs while proc'ing !! in the same amount of time that Dartagnann's group killed/proc'ed 1 NM while having more people, which I still say is unrealistic, especially considering that they're all geared up and inside Abyssea while your 4 groups are gearing specific jobs and waiting for their specific WS/spell proc windows to open. I understand the point you're trying to make though.
nuuuuu.

The only thing that you'd have to wait for is blue, and only if you want to make sure you definitely get it.

Anyway, you have completely missed the point. Being efficient is always better than not being efficient. How anyone could possibly argue otherwise is beyond me.[/quote]Smiley: frown
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Chew is being a lot more level-headed regarding the whole issue, which is strange because he's probably drunk.
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#105 Nov 21 2010 at 11:36 PM Rating: Default
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chewzer wrote:
Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
chewzer wrote:
Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
chewzer wrote:
Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
chewzer wrote:
Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
chewzer wrote:
Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
chewzer wrote:
Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
chewzer wrote:
[quote=Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO][quote=Dartagnann]Last I checked, there was no prize for the most efficient NM kill. If you can do it with uber gear and windower, are you better than the group that does it with a few more people, a tank and average gear playing on PS2's?
You may want to check again. In the time it takes you to kill one nm, my group has killed 4. That's a pretty big prize if you ask me.
Lies. It takes you just as long to proc !! as any group can.
Unless we have 4 groups trying to proc !! on 4 different nms at once.
That's not even realistic, or efficient.
Yes it is.

rdm+blm can do 5/8 spells for grellow. Throw in a blu if you want to pull that up to 7/8.
whm, nin, war hits all the ws for red.
mnk+whm can do all of the blunt ws for blue.

rng can do 10/15 blue ws for piercing.


4 nms with !! only requires 8~ people.
That's your example of realism and efficiency?
8 people? Yes. Seems pretty realistic to me. It's definitely more efficient than fighting a single mob at once with 8+ people.
That WHM is pretty amazing. He keeps up with cures on 4 shadowless DDs who are being wailed on by 4 NMs that are getting constant TP feed, all while he's meleeing with a club so he can WS proc. I sure hope Lightsday doesn't come around, or he's really screwed!
I thought you said you weren't drunk? You must be if you think a single whm counts as 4 people.
Not entirely sure what you're talking about, but I was being nice and assuming only the WAR, MNK, RNG and BLM were pulling hate.
If you have 4 dds, you also have 4 whms. Having 4 whms may or may not be efficient, depending on what you're doing. If all you're doing is farming KIs, then the most efficient way would be to go with 6 whm, 6 wars, and 6 nins, then leave an hour later when you've got 2+ of each KI. If you're doing all kinds of different things, you'll obviously need a more varied group, which probably won't have more than 2, maybe 3 whms, so to do 4 nms, you need your rdm, blm (blu) team farming seal nms.


Oh lmao. I thought you were trying to suggest proc'ing all three !! on 4 different NMs at the same time with that exact setup, which is obviously just retarded. But the original point was you killing 4 NMs while proc'ing !! in the same amount of time that Dartagnann's group killed/proc'ed 1 NM while having more people, which I still say is unrealistic, especially considering that they're all geared up and inside Abyssea while your 4 groups are gearing specific jobs and waiting for their specific WS/spell proc windows to open. I understand the point you're trying to make though.
nuuuuu.

The only thing that you'd have to wait for is blue, and only if you want to make sure you definitely get it.

Anyway, you have completely missed the point. Being efficient is always better than not being efficient. How anyone could possibly argue otherwise is beyond me.[/quote]Smiley: frown[/quote]I'm still not sure you really did. Sorry Smiley: frown
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#106 Nov 21 2010 at 11:39 PM Rating: Default
Chewzer
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Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
chewzer wrote:
Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
chewzer wrote:
Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
chewzer wrote:
Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
chewzer wrote:
Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
chewzer wrote:
Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
chewzer wrote:
Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
[quote=chewzer][quote=Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO][quote=Dartagnann]Last I checked, there was no prize for the most efficient NM kill. If you can do it with uber gear and windower, are you better than the group that does it with a few more people, a tank and average gear playing on PS2's?
You may want to check again. In the time it takes you to kill one nm, my group has killed 4. That's a pretty big prize if you ask me.
Lies. It takes you just as long to proc !! as any group can.
Unless we have 4 groups trying to proc !! on 4 different nms at once.
That's not even realistic, or efficient.
Yes it is.

rdm+blm can do 5/8 spells for grellow. Throw in a blu if you want to pull that up to 7/8.
whm, nin, war hits all the ws for red.
mnk+whm can do all of the blunt ws for blue.

rng can do 10/15 blue ws for piercing.


4 nms with !! only requires 8~ people.
That's your example of realism and efficiency?
8 people? Yes. Seems pretty realistic to me. It's definitely more efficient than fighting a single mob at once with 8+ people.
That WHM is pretty amazing. He keeps up with cures on 4 shadowless DDs who are being wailed on by 4 NMs that are getting constant TP feed, all while he's meleeing with a club so he can WS proc. I sure hope Lightsday doesn't come around, or he's really screwed!
I thought you said you weren't drunk? You must be if you think a single whm counts as 4 people.
Not entirely sure what you're talking about, but I was being nice and assuming only the WAR, MNK, RNG and BLM were pulling hate.
If you have 4 dds, you also have 4 whms. Having 4 whms may or may not be efficient, depending on what you're doing. If all you're doing is farming KIs, then the most efficient way would be to go with 6 whm, 6 wars, and 6 nins, then leave an hour later when you've got 2+ of each KI. If you're doing all kinds of different things, you'll obviously need a more varied group, which probably won't have more than 2, maybe 3 whms, so to do 4 nms, you need your rdm, blm (blu) team farming seal nms.


Oh lmao. I thought you were trying to suggest proc'ing all three !! on 4 different NMs at the same time with that exact setup, which is obviously just retarded. But the original point was you killing 4 NMs while proc'ing !! in the same amount of time that Dartagnann's group killed/proc'ed 1 NM while having more people, which I still say is unrealistic, especially considering that they're all geared up and inside Abyssea while your 4 groups are gearing specific jobs and waiting for their specific WS/spell proc windows to open. I understand the point you're trying to make though.
nuuuuu.

The only thing that you'd have to wait for is blue, and only if you want to make sure you definitely get it.

Anyway, you have completely missed the point. Being efficient is always better than not being efficient. How anyone could possibly argue otherwise is beyond me.[/quote]Smiley: frown[/quote]I'm still not sure you really did. Sorry Smiley: frown[/quote]I was never arguing effiency, merely questioning your method of effiency.
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Chew is being a lot more level-headed regarding the whole issue, which is strange because he's probably drunk.
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#107 Nov 22 2010 at 12:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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Guys, stop continuing with the quote pyramid thing that's going on now. If you want to just quote someone's comment in particular, then just erase what was said beforehand and don't continue quoting.
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#108 Nov 22 2010 at 1:20 AM Rating: Good
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One our first Ultimas, our PLD died pretty early on and our DRG/NIN tanked it the rest of the fight. lawl

Edited, Nov 22nd 2010 2:20am by Dandruffshampoo
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#109 Nov 22 2010 at 3:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Mages afk at the start of the fight?
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#110 Nov 22 2010 at 6:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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Being efficient is always better than not being efficient. How anyone could possibly argue otherwise is beyond me.

I'll take being less efficient if it means that I can actually play all the jobs I like instead of being pigeonholed to always being a certain one job. :P
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#111 Nov 22 2010 at 9:06 AM Rating: Decent
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Sharain wrote:
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Being efficient is always better than not being efficient. How anyone could possibly argue otherwise is beyond me.
I'll take being less efficient if it means that I can actually play all the jobs I like instead of being pigeonholed to always being a certain one job. :P
Just as long as you don't say your method is better, that's fine.
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#112 Nov 22 2010 at 10:27 AM Rating: Decent
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No one can question the usefulness of NIN now they can summon a giant frog to fight by their side.
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#113 Nov 22 2010 at 5:09 PM Rating: Decent
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SE should just change everybody to MNKs and WHMs. What a fun game FFXI will be.
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#114 Nov 22 2010 at 5:23 PM Rating: Default
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Nobody said you couldn't play other jobs, but while you're all out deciding which magian weapon to go for - sTP of WSdam+, the good players will be pounding out an Empyrean weapon every week or two with five or six people. Abyssea is no more difficult than Salvage, and Salvage was a ******* joke.
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Allatards/uber casuals hate elitists.

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PUP is an average to above average DD... when not in a zerg situation... or on particularly hard targets... and when properly configured... on windsday... with a RDM...
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#115 Nov 22 2010 at 6:41 PM Rating: Decent
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TybudX wrote:
Nobody said you couldn't play other jobs, but while you're all out deciding which magian weapon to go for - sTP of WSdam+, the good players will be pounding out an Empyrean weapon every week or two with five or six people. Abyssea is no more difficult than Salvage, and Salvage was a @#%^ing joke.

And I'll be doing a lot of Uni work.
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#116 Nov 22 2010 at 11:26 PM Rating: Good
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Nobody said you couldn't play other jobs, but while you're all out deciding which magian weapon to go for - sTP of WSdam+, the good players will be pounding out an Empyrean weapon every week or two with five or six people. Abyssea is no more difficult than Salvage, and Salvage was a @#%^ing joke.

No one said Abyssea is hard. >.> Since it's not. Majority of stuff there is soloable or duoable as Rog said. Of course need a few more if want to cover all the !! procs.

As for other part of your post, WSdam+/str&att/dex&acc/multihit is "good enough" for me. I never get to melee on pup or dnc against anything that couldn't be soloed (ie, easy) anyways. If your definition of "good player" is someone who must have every "leet" item in the game, then sure, I'm not a good player by that standard. I just don't care. Farming NMs for a week straight isn't my idea of fun and having an empyrean wouldn't let me solo anything I can't already solo. If that's your idea of fun, great, knock yourself out getting those empyrean weapons. :D

Maybe I'd think differently if I played 100% damage oriented jobs like sam or war, but I tend to play support or hybrids.
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#117 Nov 23 2010 at 2:51 AM Rating: Default
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jtftaru wrote:
No one can question the usefulness of NIN now they can summon a giant frog to fight by their side.


And in true ninja form, this thread has gone off topic (just as much as the last Nin thread) and doesnt know what it is but can be many things ;)

Ninjarrrrrrrrrrrrr

I actually realised that my previous post had "Daggers" and not "Katanas" lol and everyone missed it. You are all Dark Knights!!

*had too much coffee today because its inspection day and decided to check Zam before the war starts

Edited, Nov 23rd 2010 3:54am by Lonix
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#118 Nov 23 2010 at 5:43 AM Rating: Decent
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Kasaioni wrote:
SE should just change everybody to MNKs and WHMs. What a fun game FFXI will be.


Don't forget RDM.

20 jobs and supposedly 3-5 of them are worth using. **** poor game design if you ask me.

Hopefully by 99 the other jobs will be made useful again. That said, we use tanks but it's pretty depressing watching other jobs do our job way too much of the time, and we are more of your typical linkshell.

Probably the best thing about being in a shell that is less elitist is it's a more laid-back experience, as long as you still get things done.

Edited, Nov 23rd 2010 6:46am by VrKurosawa
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#119 Nov 23 2010 at 11:12 AM Rating: Decent
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VrKurosawa wrote:
Kasaioni wrote:
SE should just change everybody to MNKs and WHMs. What a fun game FFXI will be.
Don't forget RDM.

20 jobs and supposedly 3-5 of them are worth using. **** poor game design if you ask me.
Well, mnk, war, blm, rdm, sam (situationally), brd, thf, dnc are all useful in one way or another. Still, that's only 8 jobs, with the rest being rather mediocre. That's sad Smiley: frown
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#120 Nov 23 2010 at 12:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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VrKurosawa wrote:
Hopefully by X the other jobs will be made useful again.


This statement has been made on this forum more times than what Rog has as a post count since the beginning of FFXI's career. Unfortunately, it's better to accept that jobs will never truly be balanced. I'm still all about playing certain jobs for fun, but I also understand that there are just some setups that are plainly optimal for certain situations which alienates anyone who doesn't have that job leveled. I don't think there's an MMO out there who's classes are balanced, but FFXI makes it a lot more apparent, unfortunately.

Personally, while I understand/know of optimal setups, as long as I'm playing with friends, I can care less.



Damn it Rog, add SCH to your list of useful jobs. Smiley: mad
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#121 Nov 23 2010 at 12:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Sir Exodus wrote:
This statement has been made on this forum more times than what Rog has as a post count since the beginning of FFXI's career.
ITT: my post count is a standard of comparison.
Quote:
Damn it Rog, add SCH to your list of useful jobs. Smiley: mad
Eh... Sch is awfully situational, but i guess it could go on there.
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#122 Nov 23 2010 at 12:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
Sir Exodus wrote:
This statement has been made on this forum more times than what Rog has as a post count since the beginning of FFXI's career.
ITT: my post count is a standard of comparison.


Only because Joph's post count is too high and mines wouldn't have been enough of an emphasis. That, and you are the main antagonist in this thread anyway, so why not. Smiley: laugh
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#123 Nov 23 2010 at 12:13 PM Rating: Default
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Sir Exodus wrote:
Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
Sir Exodus wrote:
This statement has been made on this forum more times than what Rog has as a post count since the beginning of FFXI's career.
ITT: my post count is a standard of comparison.

Only because Joph's post count is too high and mines wouldn't have been enough of an emphasis. That, and you are the main antagonist in this thread anyway, so why not. Smiley: laugh
I think you're confusing antagonist with protagonist.

Edited, Nov 23rd 2010 1:13pm by ThePsychoticOne
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#124 Nov 23 2010 at 12:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
Sir Exodus wrote:
Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
Sir Exodus wrote:
This statement has been made on this forum more times than what Rog has as a post count since the beginning of FFXI's career.
ITT: my post count is a standard of comparison.

Only because Joph's post count is too high and mines wouldn't have been enough of an emphasis. That, and you are the main antagonist in this thread anyway, so why not. Smiley: laugh
I think you're confusing antagonist with protagonist.

Edited, Nov 23rd 2010 1:13pm by ThePsychoticOne


Not in your particular case. Smiley: tongue
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#125 Nov 24 2010 at 4:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Unfortunately, it's better to accept that jobs will never truly be balanced.


I just wish jobs were overpowerdly unbalanced, instead of severerly underpoweredly unbalanced. I still don't understand the global BP timer concept after all these years. Would it kill a HNM if I could do TWO rage pacts?
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#126 Nov 24 2010 at 5:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Rog wrote:
Well, mnk, war, blm, rdm, sam (situationally), brd, thf, dnc are all useful in one way or another. Still


ftfy.
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I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
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