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Taiko vs SE - UK Law - Data Protection Act (Taiko Wins)

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Taiko vs SE - UK Law - Data Protection Act (Taiko Wins)Follow

#27 Oct 01 2010 at 4:16 AM Rating: Excellent

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Lobivopis wrote:

If you think SE wouldn't pull out of the UK because they would loose money you thought wrong. Square Enix canceled plans to release FFXI in South Korea because of their laws regarding virtual property in MMORPGs.

It's true that they could pull out, but I think it highly unlikely.

There's a big difference between cancelling plans to move into a region, and pulling out of a region you are already established in.

It's far, far less expensive for them to simply comply with the DPA than it will be to cease support for a profitable business. That carries with it considerable cost in terms of redunancy and administration, and the threat of any legal costs brought against them by disgruntled employees losing their jobs on the grounds that the business was profitable. This also looks bad on their ballance sheet and in the press, and that wont impress the shareholders at all.

They would also have to cease XIV because of the same risks. It's company policy which is the problem, not just FFXI.

If they comply with the DPA they will never get fined. All in all, it would be very bad business sense to cease operations rather than comply to the few data requests they will receive. All companies that hold UK personal data have to comply to these laws, and it rarely causes real difficulty to any of them. The DPA exists for a reason - SE have behaved badly, and they need to shape up. That's true not just of the UK, but globably.

A version of the DPA exists in many countries besides the UK. We might all be surprised just how many regions they are in breach of it in for all we know.

Well done Tai.

#28 rdmcandie, Posted: Oct 01 2010 at 6:00 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) ftfy

#29 Oct 01 2010 at 6:15 AM Rating: Good

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Wonder Gem rdmcandie wrote:

Quote:

I don't know about ~~billions~~millions...

ftfy

1 Million is like,2-3 months max..

You realize they make a few $million per month on ffxi, right?

#30 rdmcandie, Posted: Oct 01 2010 at 6:25 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I was being a smart ***, gosh don't you know me by now.

#31 Oct 01 2010 at 8:13 AM Rating: Excellent

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Lobivopis wrote:

If you think SE wouldn't pull out of the UK because they would loose money you thought wrong. Square Enix canceled plans to release FFXI in South Korea because of their laws regarding virtual property in MMORPGs.

This is where I can call BS. As I happen to of lived in South Korea for a very long time now. They didn't release it here because there wasn't a big enough demand to warrant another translation to maintain and another support center to run. The Koreans are far more interested in Lineage II and World of Warcraft then FFXI. Plus there happens to be more then a bit of bad blood between those two countries.

The billions in profit isn't from FFXI its from future products and projected income. The UK / EU doesn't ban / punish specific products they ban / punish whole companies. Getting in trouble over something like FFXI isn't worth jeopardizing other current or future products and revenue streams. Its pure economics.

And FYI, not only did SE not release a South Korea version, they black listed the entire IP range of the biggest tier 0 provider in SK from POL servers (but strangely not from the FFXI servers themselves). This would be the equivalent of blacking listing all of Comcast or AT&T / Time Warner in the USA. And when a bunch of us brought it to their attention, their response was "we don't support that region <click>".

#32 rdmcandie, Posted: Oct 01 2010 at 12:07 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Thats a pretty bold statement. Do you have any concrete evidence that shows people in Korea do not want to play FFXI or are you just spinning your tires? I got into WoW because I enjoyed final fantsy 11, I got into EVE online because I enjoyed WoW and FFXI, I came back to FFXI because I missed friends and the game has undergone a massive change. Ive played 2 other MMO's because of FFXI. Would I have played them otherwise, I doubt it, heck the only reason I even played FFXI in the first place is I got it free with my PS2 HDD.

#33 Oct 01 2010 at 8:04 PM Rating: Good

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Got SE on the address points they raised. Link below is a press release of theirs of the 3rd December 2009, showing the registered address of 37-45 Paul Street. This would indicate they did indeed have it, but ignored and by their own logic there's no reason it went unanswered.

http://elmundotech.wordpress.com/2009/12/03/square-enix-song-summoner-the-unsung-heroes-encore-iphone-ipodtouch/

#34 Oct 02 2010 at 2:22 PM Rating: Good

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Wonder Gem rdmcandie wrote:

Thats a pretty bold statement. Do you have any concrete evidence that shows people in Korea do not want to play FFXI or are you just spinning your tires? I got into WoW because I enjoyed final fantsy 11, I got into EVE online because I enjoyed WoW and FFXI, I came back to FFXI because I missed friends and the game has undergone a massive change. Ive played 2 other MMO's because of FFXI. Would I have played them otherwise, I doubt it, heck the only reason I even played FFXI in the first place is I got it free with my PS2 HDD.

Why couldn't that work in reverse. Hell I know several people who just joined the game because they go bored in WoW and wanted to try something a bit different.

So please provide some information on the claim Koreans don't want to play FFXI, because the statement you are arguing is a true statement, SE cancelled Korean expansions because of RMT (lack of laws prohibiting the sale of virtual items for cash). The reason they shut off the service support, and said FU was because there were more people complaining about RMT that made their home base in Korea, than people complaining they couldn't play in Korea.

Also a more accurate statement would have been, SK's market for FFXI would be small in comparison, and likely not worth it, as SK has a hard on for Starcraft, and Starcraft II

Starcraft is just a national past time over here, but for MMO's its #1 Lineage II and then WoW. How many Korean players do you know on FFXI? I've been playing since I had to have my friend translate the Japanese and I haven't met a single one. But I know tons of my friends play Lineage II / WoW and even LoTR, their constantly wanting me to switch over.

And RDD you have no clue how that happened, not even close. The reason they blocked KT from the POL servers is because KT provides service to almost every PC room in the country. SK has the worlds best internet infrastructure, its so good here I couldn't stand it when I went home to visit my parents. Every apartment building is now pre-wired with Cat-5/6 to every room of the house / appartments. The building itself has 10gb+ connection to either KT or LG. The cost for a 100Mb connection is about $30 USD a month (36,700 KRW). I've tested it, I get 90Mb/s up and down simultaneously. The country is loaded with PC rooms, their on every street just about, the rates are about 500 to 1000 KRW per hour about .50 to just under a dollar. Its how all the students do all their internet work and play video games. Now this super fast infrastructure provides a golden target for zombie programs. A PC room that doesn't have any real security person (and almost none do) is usually infected to high hell with all sorts of worms and zombie programs. You had Chinese RMT groups using the Korean PC rooms to launch DDoS attacks amongst other hacking attacks at the POL servers. SE's response was to block the entire range of KT just to "get em all" and screwed any players in SK. Now the FFXI world servers themselves are not blocked only the POL registration servers. Their actually located in two different locations. For a long long time I had to use my friends stateside socks-5 proxy to login to FFXI.

So yeah, I think its safe to say they have absolutely zero desire to launch any of their MMO's into the Korean market. Korean's wouldn't play them anyway too much animosity still around.

#35 Oct 02 2010 at 5:04 PM Rating: Decent

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Quote:

saevellakshmi wrote:

Also a more accurate statement would have been, SK's market for FFXI would be small in comparison, and likely not worth it, as SK has a hard on for Starcraft, and Starcraft II

Starcraft is just a national past time over here, but for MMO's its #1 Lineage II and then WoW.

FFXI was released in November 2002, Linage II came out in October 2003 and WoW was released in November 2004. SE canceled their plans to release it in South Korea sometime in 2003 if I remember correctly. If they had released it would not have been competing with Lineage and possibly Lineage II, but not WoW.

Quote:

How many Korean players do you know on FFXI?

Considering that SE IP blocks South Korea from FFXI, none.

I remember quite a few threads from 2003-2004 complaining about how south korean players ruin the game.

Edited, Oct 3rd 2010 10:46am by Lobivopis

____________________________

Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:

Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.

I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20

#36 Oct 03 2010 at 4:46 AM Rating: Decent

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SE didn't block SK's IPs, they blocked their biggest tier 0 provider from POLs registration server. And they didn't do the block till 2008, I remember the weekend because suddenly I couldn't log in and spent the next two weeks figuring out a way around it. Since then I've moved apartments and I made sure I had LG internet service which conveniently isn't blocked. And I again call BS on your "korean players ruining the game" bull ****. You couldn't even tell the difference between a Korea / Japanese or a Chinese person across the internet. There was on Korean release because there wasn't enough interest in it, Lineage (and later Lineage II) had the market cornered for MMO's over here. There never was any significant amount of players in SK.

#37 rdmcandie, Posted: Oct 03 2010 at 4:59 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) so why make any new MMO's after 2004 since we all know 11 million people globally pretty much corners a market.

#38 Oct 03 2010 at 7:51 AM Rating: Decent

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saevellakshmi wrote:

And I again call BS on your "korean players ruining the game" bull ****.

I didn't create or post in those threads. So I don't see why you think it's "my" *********

Quote:

You couldn't even tell the difference between a Korea / Japanese or a Chinese person across the internet.

The complaint was that they took the "MMORPGs are serious business" to a level that made even the japanese players seem casual.

Edited, Oct 3rd 2010 10:53am by Lobivopis

____________________________

Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:

Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.

I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20

#39 Oct 03 2010 at 12:46 PM Rating: Excellent

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Back on topic again /coff

The ruling by the ICO isn't against FFXI, it's against Square Enix Europe Ltd, the entire corporation (including Eidos now I'd guess). If SE doesn't follow the DPA and instead decided to pull out of Europe, they would have to pull all their products from European shelves, they would be unable to conduct business in Europe,

No SE games on the PS3, PSP, DS, Wii, 360, PC, having to relocate all their offices out of the EU, it would not be worth their time or the massive expense. They could move to the US I suppose, except that the Safe Harbor provisions actually guarantee that companies in the US dealing with EU accounts will provide them the same data safeguards as if the data were in the EU, so umm, SE only in Japan? I'm not sure that's workable.

#40 Oct 12 2010 at 5:58 AM Rating: Good

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Just an update, still haven't received the documents about this from SE. This is even though they had no changes to make, so would've just been a case of printing them, and they were notified coming up for 3 weeks ago now.

Just made a call to the ICO for information as to how long they should take to respond, but the caseworker was on lunch. Given the fact that no changes had to be made though, I'm not thinking they'll look too kindly on this.

#41 Oct 12 2010 at 6:22 AM Rating: Good

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TaiStyle wrote:

Just an update, still haven't received the documents about this from SE. This is even though they had no changes to make, so would've just been a case of printing them, and they were notified coming up for 3 weeks ago now.

Just made a call to the ICO for information as to how long they should take to respond, but the caseworker was on lunch. Given the fact that no changes had to be made though, I'm not thinking they'll look too kindly on this.

I predict that they aren't sending you anything and are just going to ignore you.

____________________________

Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:

Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.

I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20

#42 Oct 12 2010 at 6:36 AM Rating: Excellent

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Just had my callback from the ICO, they've not stated a timeframe to SE, but they would take further action if not done within 28 days of their letter to them, which would mean a reply by next Friday, the 22nd October.

I think tonight I'll put in a call to SE, just asking in general when I can expect to receive the documents from them.

#43 Oct 12 2010 at 11:02 AM Rating: Excellent

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Spoke to SE via webchat, got the following comment:

Quote:

SEL Agent CÃ©dric: The request is in process, unfortunately I don't have an estimated time, as soon as I have more informations I will send you an e-mail, most likely tomorrow to update you on this. Sorry for the delay.

#44 Oct 13 2010 at 11:51 AM Rating: Excellent

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Intentionally didn't phone today, or webchat. Thought I'd let it reach 6pm when they close.

They didn't email me with an update as promised. At this stage, I'm going to leave things until the 22nd, see what happens.

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 1:52pm by TaiStyle

#45 Oct 13 2010 at 1:45 PM Rating: Excellent

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The only way to get through to SE is by taking legal action against them. I know you said you were not in it for the money, but they are. I think losing some would be the only way they would get the point.

#46 Oct 15 2010 at 3:08 PM Rating: Good

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Do wonder if this shareholder has maybe seen something like this. He sold $25million worth of shares earlier. Might be more FFXIV related, but it's not a good sign.

http://www.ffxivcore.com/topic/25191-japanese-se-shareholder-sells-25000000-in-stocks/

#47 Oct 15 2010 at 5:06 PM Rating: Default

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well considering estimates for ff14 were probably 100's of millions in sales rev a year, and with the horrible launch that estimate may have been drastically reduced which could result in future dividends and stock prices to be reduced

#48 Oct 16 2010 at 5:51 AM Rating: Excellent

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Just goes to show that you need to keep your game tight, especially when one of your player base is a stockholder.

#49 Oct 16 2010 at 8:44 AM Rating: Decent

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inb4 FF7: Remastered to increase revenues.

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#50 Oct 16 2010 at 4:30 PM Rating: Decent

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But guyz they're gonna fix everything in the december update!

Edited, Oct 16th 2010 7:31pm by Lobivopis

____________________________

Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:

Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.

I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20

#51 Oct 16 2010 at 5:48 PM Rating: Good

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Lobivopis wrote:

But guyz they're gonna fix everything in the december update!

Edited, Oct 16th 2010 7:31pm by Lobivopis

"Dude, SE is totally listening to us! They, like, adjusted my Taru v2.0.1's /panic animation!"

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