The answer is not the courts. SE is a public company, and the only people they answer to is the shareholders.
If there is enough backlash that this goes mainstream public and it causes the shareholders to lose faith in the earning potential of the company and inturn lose faith in their return on investment, the stock will become devalued, costing SE millions of dollars, a negative reputation in the stockmarket, etc.
remember, SE does not own SE, the shareholders do, and alot of those shareholders are probably customers.
so when it comes down to it, its up to sites like this, and others to spread the news, and keep it spreading until shareholders realize that they may lose money on their investment due to noones fault but SE's management.
My guess is the board of directors or even senior management have no idea what this crew is doing, keep in mind, there are very few of them and I wouldnt doubt they are in a small room in the basement. But if their actions are brought to the forefront and it is realized that their actions may actually and will actually hurt their future cash cow ff14, dont doubt for a second that this team will be on the receiving end of the ban hammer brought down by the board.
So if you want to send emails and letters, dont send them to the the ffxi team, that does nothing, of course they going to hide them, ignore them, its basically sweeping things under the rug so that their superiors stay uninformed, so if you going to write, write to the main corporation, to their public relations dept, if they get enough response to warrant a review from the board, we may be able to find sundi on an unemployment line where he belongs.
·Theme
- Forums
- Final Fantasy XI
- General Discussion
- Warning to Players SE is STILL Banning!
Warning to Players SE is STILL Banning!Follow
Thayos wrote:
People who have been banned could help us out by providing screenshots or copies of correspondence, if any correspondence exists. Send me a PM if you have anything. I know it can be hard to come by, especially if the bulk of your contact with SE is through its call center.
Thayos, I just wanted to say I sent you an e-mail with everything I had... I forgot to send my letter I wrote to the NA account manager but I don't think that's really relevant anyhow. It is a decently long e-mail with 13 attachments to it. Enjoy ^^ lol -.- Sorry for the length but I had a lot of information to provide on this.
AnyaLouvel wrote:
Didn't I already mention most of these sections of the TOS? I know I at least said it looks pretty ironclad as far as "we do what we want, refuse to reverse any of our decisions, and you can't do a damn thing about it". Especially the part where you have absolutely no rights to your character, items, et cetera. Which was probably originally put in there to prevent character-selling, which is what could have made gil-selling so much more popular, which is why they're using the same article to "ban f**king everyone" (thank you, Encyclopedia Dramatica).
... Yeah, I'm pretty emotionally unbalanced at the moment. And I haven't even checked to see if I'm re-banned yet.
... Yeah, I'm pretty emotionally unbalanced at the moment. And I haven't even checked to see if I'm re-banned yet.
Yeah but some people like to constantly fling sh*t and go "lol you got t3h bant". If it makes them feel better repeating information we already know then just let them do so and ignore it. *shrugs* Yeah we get what the ToS says. As I've stated, that is the same for some states that allow at will employment. Just because the clause is there doesn't mean your employer is going to fire you because you drive a white car. It's more or less a bottom line clause to cover their *** and prevent loopholes in their policy should any oddball situation come up that is not clearly specified in another clause of the ToS. That doesn't mean they will always enact it, it's more or less a safeguard, not a say all and be all and a means of doing everything. POL clearly cannot explain all of the bans or the reasoning behind them so they just point to the ToS to cover their *** because either they really don't know, or they choose not to tell us and using a clause from the ToS is just an easier explanation.
Edited, Aug 1st 2009 1:47am by Phallucy
xbobbobx wrote:
remember, SE does not own SE, the shareholders do, and alot of those shareholders are probably customers.
High publicity lawsuit = stock price plunge
therefore, most shareholders will encourage their management to settle with the plaintiffs. Especially if all they want is their accounts reinstated, and legal fees/transport/lodging reimbursed.
6 posts
Phallucy wrote:
Yeah but some people like to constantly fling sh*t and go "lol you got t3h bant". If it makes them feel better repeating information we already know then just let them do so and ignore it. *shrugs* Yeah we get what the ToS says. As I've stated, that is the same for some states that allow at will employment. Just because the clause is there doesn't mean your employer is going to fire you because you drive a white car. It's more or less a bottom line clause to cover their *** and prevent loopholes in their policy should any oddball situation come up that is not clearly specified in another clause of the ToS. That doesn't mean they will always enact it, it's more or less a safeguard, not a say all and be all and a means of doing everything. POL clearly cannot explain all of the bans or the reasoning behind them so they just point to the ToS to cover their *** because either they really don't know, or they choose not to tell us and using a clause from the ToS is just an easier explanation.
So, it pretty much boils down to crappy/nonexistent customer service and refusal to even look into, let alone reverse, most bans. I mean, most of their terms are pretty standard, if a bit paranoid. But actually saying all decisions (i.e. bans) are final? Using the employment agreement analogy, that would be like a clause in the agreement that says that if you are let go, for any reason, you can never be hired again in that company for the rest of your life.
I think that was the only part that really seemed strange to me. The rest of the ToS, regardless of how they're possibly abusing them now, do seem to have at least some covering-our-backsides logic to them.
Oh, and I'm still not banned yet on my new account. Some things I did on my old account that I've avoided are: using a nickname to identify myself during registration, going to the same FFXI server (Sylph), and selling most loot from quests to NPCs. (It might be of note that "most loot" was pretty much two or three bat wings...)
Edited, Aug 1st 2009 4:04am by AnyaLouvel
SingBismark wrote:
Ever get the feeling like SE just got sick of us always throwing tantrums?
I'm not saying it's justified, just that I feel like they got sick of us.
I'm not saying it's justified, just that I feel like they got sick of us.
Apparently they're sick of making money. If they keep up the way they have been, it's something they'll have to worry about less and less as time goes by.
As others have said, "The customer is always right" is not literally true, but there is a true sentiment. Any business should be trying to find ways to delight their customers, not finding excuses for how to do the least that they can do.
AnyaLouvel wrote:
Phallucy wrote:
Yeah but some people like to constantly fling sh*t and go "lol you got t3h bant". If it makes them feel better repeating information we already know then just let them do so and ignore it. *shrugs* Yeah we get what the ToS says. As I've stated, that is the same for some states that allow at will employment. Just because the clause is there doesn't mean your employer is going to fire you because you drive a white car. It's more or less a bottom line clause to cover their *** and prevent loopholes in their policy should any oddball situation come up that is not clearly specified in another clause of the ToS. That doesn't mean they will always enact it, it's more or less a safeguard, not a say all and be all and a means of doing everything. POL clearly cannot explain all of the bans or the reasoning behind them so they just point to the ToS to cover their *** because either they really don't know, or they choose not to tell us and using a clause from the ToS is just an easier explanation.
So, it pretty much boils down to crappy/nonexistent customer service and refusal to even look into, let alone reverse, most bans. I mean, most of their terms are pretty standard, if a bit paranoid. But actually saying all decisions (i.e. bans) are final? Using the employment agreement analogy, that would be like a clause in the agreement that says that if you are let go, for any reason, you can never be hired again in that company for the rest of your life.
I think that was the only part that really seemed strange to me. The rest of the ToS, regardless of how they're possibly abusing them now, do seem to have at least some covering-our-backsides logic to them.
Oh, and I'm still not banned yet on my new account. Some things I did on my old account that I've avoided are: using a nickname to identify myself during registration, going to the same FFXI server (Sylph), and selling most loot from quests to NPCs. (It might be of note that "most loot" was pretty much two or three bat wings...)
Edited, Aug 1st 2009 4:04am by AnyaLouvel
That also was in my hire packet for the job that I held for 8 years and was fired aprox 3 weeks ago. Ironically the place had a high turn over rate and I had openly stated they the company has hired and fired every working class person in the city, they eventually, more recently, and for a limited time, started to re-hire people if you left on good terms.
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=19095
http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=19095
http://n4g.com/News-369813.aspx
Thank You Thayos for voicing our opinion. /bow
Edited, Aug 1st 2009 5:36pm by GummybearOdin
http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=19095
http://n4g.com/News-369813.aspx
Thank You Thayos for voicing our opinion. /bow
Edited, Aug 1st 2009 5:36pm by GummybearOdin
Scholar
23 posts
Thanks for increasing the visibility of this issue
August 2, 2009
All my content IDs and those of my entire core of my ls has been cancelled.
The mule still has not been unbanned.
Not looking good for SE.
All my content IDs and those of my entire core of my ls has been cancelled.
The mule still has not been unbanned.
Not looking good for SE.
Just got this from BBB:
Company's Final Response
Company's Final Response - Posted 07/29/2009
We appreciate this customer’s concern and can guarantee this matter has been brought to the attention of our management team. The customer is welcome to pursue a ban complaint with proper verification with the PlayOnline Information Center. However, in the end we need to alert this customer that SQUARE ENIX, INC. may suspend, terminate, modify, or delete any PlayOnline account at anytime, with any reason or no reason, with or without notice (PlayOnline Member Agreement, Article 3.2). We apologize that this customer feels like they were treated unfairly in any way. We must make it clear to this customer that there is nothing the BBB or management can do that will result in the reversal of the action taken on this account.
Company's Final Response
Company's Final Response - Posted 07/29/2009
We appreciate this customer’s concern and can guarantee this matter has been brought to the attention of our management team. The customer is welcome to pursue a ban complaint with proper verification with the PlayOnline Information Center. However, in the end we need to alert this customer that SQUARE ENIX, INC. may suspend, terminate, modify, or delete any PlayOnline account at anytime, with any reason or no reason, with or without notice (PlayOnline Member Agreement, Article 3.2). We apologize that this customer feels like they were treated unfairly in any way. We must make it clear to this customer that there is nothing the BBB or management can do that will result in the reversal of the action taken on this account.
There are certain things you cannot be fired for, even in 'at will' states. And if you are fired for them, you can sue for wrongful termination and win.
Scholar
18 posts
GummybearOdin wrote:
6.) If you're account had a chargeback in the past and you reactivated recently, even with approval from POL Information Center you will be banned with LM-17 and told you're involved in "RMT Activities."
Damn I think I am ban becos of this, My account is hacked, and that damn hacker make a world transfer for me. Thus i contact PIC to ask for data restore and refund me the world transfer fee.
GummybearOdin wrote:
Just got this from BBB:
Company's Final Response
Company's Final Response - Posted 07/29/2009
We appreciate this customer’s concern and can guarantee this matter has been brought to the attention of our management team. The customer is welcome to pursue a ban complaint with proper verification with the PlayOnline Information Center. However, in the end we need to alert this customer that SQUARE ENIX, INC. may suspend, terminate, modify, or delete any PlayOnline account at anytime, with any reason or no reason, with or without notice (PlayOnline Member Agreement, Article 3.2). We apologize that this customer feels like they were treated unfairly in any way. We must make it clear to this customer that there is nothing the BBB or management can do that will result in the reversal of the action taken on this account.
Company's Final Response
Company's Final Response - Posted 07/29/2009
We appreciate this customer’s concern and can guarantee this matter has been brought to the attention of our management team. The customer is welcome to pursue a ban complaint with proper verification with the PlayOnline Information Center. However, in the end we need to alert this customer that SQUARE ENIX, INC. may suspend, terminate, modify, or delete any PlayOnline account at anytime, with any reason or no reason, with or without notice (PlayOnline Member Agreement, Article 3.2). We apologize that this customer feels like they were treated unfairly in any way. We must make it clear to this customer that there is nothing the BBB or management can do that will result in the reversal of the action taken on this account.
In other words, the same BS line that SE has been giving anyone, and the whole reason the editorial was written in the first place.
That's not an answer, SE, that's a blanket cop-out clause used when you simply can't come up with a better answer.
Just a quick note, my Freedom of Information request was delivered to SE this morning via recorded delivery. Their London office has signed for it, so now I need to wait for a response.
They can charge me a fee of up to £10, so they might even encourage this as a way of making revenue.
Edited, Aug 3rd 2009 7:28pm by TaiStyle
They can charge me a fee of up to £10, so they might even encourage this as a way of making revenue.
Edited, Aug 3rd 2009 7:28pm by TaiStyle
9 posts
I just canceled all my contents ID and most of my LS friends.
this issue should be fixed and legitimate people should get their account back or we are [not interested]
this issue should be fixed and legitimate people should get their account back or we are [not interested]
Quote:
I just canceled all my contents ID and most of my LS friends.
this issue should be fixed and legitimate people should get their account back or we are [not interested]
this issue should be fixed and legitimate people should get their account back or we are [not interested]
Some one on another topic was telling all of us that cancelling our content ids will do nothing.
I thought about it today...
1 Year of revnue from my ls alone:
17 accounts about 65 content ids
17 x 12.95 = $220.15
65 - 17 = $48.00
$268.15 x 12 m/year = $3,217.80 Lost from my ls alone. (Some continued playing with the obvious notion the shell didn't mean much. I applaud those that are defending us from this f up.)
17,000 banned accounts in the last STF sweep = 17,000 x 12.95 x 12 m/year = $2,641,800
31 servers x at least 10 accounts have quit over someone elses account being banned x 12.95 x 12 = $48,174
31 servers x avg 3,000 active accounts (Some servers less then 1500 players at peak) x 12.95 x 12 = $14,452,200
Loss this next year only:
My LS on Odin: $3,217.80
17,000 Banned Accounts: $2,641,800
Predicted people that quit a meer 10 people: $48,174
This years income: 11,759,008.20 (Loss of $2,693,191.80) 19% Income Loss
Basically all these numbers came to my head, and that poster that said "us quitting does absolutely nothing", I beg to differ, combined with SE killing FF11 off + our efforts, its beginning to REALLY hurt.
1 Main SE facility in Japan, 2 Regional Offices in California and somewhere in EU, All the GMs for each of the facility, bandwidth, servers, rent... I don't see SE getting rich off this...
Yes we do matter and while I'm happy watching the game I loved for so many years die off over SE's own mistakes, I'm upset its dieing off...
Edited, Aug 3rd 2009 8:41pm by GummybearOdin
TaiStyle wrote:
Just a quick note, my Freedom of Information request was delivered to SE this morning via recorded delivery. Their London office has signed for it, so now I need to wait for a response.
They can charge me a fee of up to £10, so they might even encourage this as a way of making revenue.
Edited, Aug 3rd 2009 7:28pm by TaiStyle
They can charge me a fee of up to £10, so they might even encourage this as a way of making revenue.
Edited, Aug 3rd 2009 7:28pm by TaiStyle
So if SE is openly defiant and just flat out refuses to provide the information despite the fines what happens then?
Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.
I thought of it first:
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
Lobivopis wrote:
So if SE is openly defiant and just flat out refuses to provide the information despite the fines what happens then?
Then they have broken the law and plaintiffs can sue for compensatory/punitive/general damages. This includes legal fees.
GummybearOdin wrote:
Square Enix of Japan has full control of this situation...
And this surprises you? Square Enix is a Japanese company and the CS that everyone complains about answers to the parent company. I don't think letting folks like the BBB know will help much unless a lawsuit really ramps up because I think the only way the information on the bans is going to get released is if the Parent SE is forced to.
Anyway, I do find one thing amusing about this entire thing. The suffering that is earning money in this game that I've went through since launch has somehow prevented me from getting banned in this round of stupidity on SE's part. Kind of funny that going through all that pain means I can still play now. It's like some kind of reward for torture.
Shouta wrote:
GummybearOdin wrote:
Square Enix of Japan has full control of this situation...
And this surprises you? Square Enix is a Japanese company and the CS that everyone complains about answers to the parent company. I don't think letting folks like the BBB know will help much unless a lawsuit really ramps up because I think the only way the information on the bans is going to get released is if the Parent SE is forced to.
Anyway, I do find one thing amusing about this entire thing. The suffering that is earning money in this game that I've went through since launch has somehow prevented me from getting banned in this round of stupidity on SE's part. Kind of funny that going through all that pain means I can still play now. It's like some kind of reward for torture.
I think it works like this.
There are several people that "investigate" accounts and most of them are doing their job except one ******* who is either:
A. Lazy
B. Hates his job
C. Is **** about what "suspicious" means.
D. Some combination of the above.
Which is why some people get banned for stupid **** and some don't.
Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.
I thought of it first:
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
Has any mainstream media picked this up yet? Kotaku? We need to get it out to them.
Not that I'm banned, but still. This is silly.
Not that I'm banned, but still. This is silly.
Zenoxio wrote:
Has any mainstream media picked this up yet? Kotaku? We need to get it out to them.
Not that I'm banned, but still. This is silly.
Not that I'm banned, but still. This is silly.
I've emailed kotaku a few times on this topic including the editorial written by Thayos. Considering the speed with which they picked up a similar topic involving WoW, the cynic in me says they don't want to know
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
check my sig for links.
I for one just ignore the RMT tells. I am wondering why don't SE just post some information why taking RMT could do your credit cards/checking accounts. And these RMT companies aren't legit.
LadyVaJedi wrote:
I for one just ignore the RMT tells. I am wondering why don't SE just post some information why taking RMT could do your credit cards/checking accounts. And these RMT companies aren't legit.
There are issues of liability to think of when making claims like that
Edited, Aug 4th 2009 1:01pm by Callinon
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
Recent Visitors: 104
All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (104)
- Forums
- Final Fantasy XI
- General Discussion
- Warning to Players SE is STILL Banning!
© 2024 Fanbyte LLC