The following people bought FFXIAppFollow

You sure know how to dramatize the conversation.

/popcorn

Edited, Oct 9th 2007 2:54am by JingWoo

* I don't buy gil / use hax programs.
* I'm not on the list.

Though,

* I never did anything to **** off Taj
* I'm not on the list

So I guess it goes both ways. Though really, there's so much talk about botting in endgame linkshells that SOMEONE has to be doing it. The accused on this list don't seem like wild stretches to me.

The nice person that doesn't really like endgame I know isn't on there.

The guy that keeps to himself and mostly soloes isn't on there.

The person that often complains of not having enough gil isn't on there.

Some of the people that never log off and aggressively persue highly-camped NMs and act like jerks ARE on there.


SE probably won't ban anyone over this. I can hope, but I don't see it happening. It DOES give me a nice bit of backing for some of my propaganda though. I'm thinking, taking some of the top members of iizerg, making them sillohets with the ipod white cords like in all the adds, and adding the caption "iicheat" with some sort of reference to this list. Good idea, bad idea? Eh eh!


I do play again actually. Played since last summer. I update my sig whenever my PLD gets another level. Yes, it's been going up that slowly...

Of course not. That's why I'm posting here and on several different forum fronts to clear my name. Taj knows my name well from my posting and IRC chats on the BG forums/IRC rooms. I realize there are a great number of people learning right now through this list and I hope they realize they are taking information from someone who hacked several accounts, stole their gil and sellables, threw away their rare/ex items, and transfered their characters to different servers.

As for the suing part, I'm not about to sue over an online matter. I'm never easily-angered and this is no different. All I have to do is clear my name and support my arguements with proof and the people who have use of even elementary logic in their brains will see precisely why I am correct.

I spoke out against him in the thread about him hacking those accounts and was thusly part of the reason why the admins there decided a ban was necessary. I speak out for what's right. You might try to soil that but it will always be met with my iron fist.

Edited, Oct 9th 2007 3:58am by Hapernack

It's called inductive reasoning Hapernack. An example:

All observed crows on Earth are black.
Therefore all crows are black.

Does it mean it's necessarily a true statement? No, but we constantly use inductive logic to come to conclusions.

Inductive reasoning at work here:
All of the people on the list are now coming out either admitting that they have downloaded this program, creating pathetic arguments on KI or BG that quickly get toppled, or just changing servers straight away.
Therefore everyone on the list bought the program.


If you're the only person so far who has truly been accused unfairly, then wow that sucks, but you can not blame people for using logic to come to the conclusion that you bought the program.

And to address your question "why would I buy the program if I wasn't playing FFXI anymore?" Why buy a hammer if you are going to be building a house in the near future? Why buy a weight set if you are going to begin training for the olympics soon? Why buy a program for FFXI if you will be returning soon?


Not exactly air tight. I personally am reserving my judgment on everyone on that list until the future when real facts about the list are made known, but you haven't presented any perfect, airtight alibis, so don't pretend like you have.

Breaking rules set up by your community is defined as morally wrong.

FFXI's rules are set up by Square-Enix, agreed to by all players, and are really agreements by everyone in the community to everyone else in the community. There is a reason why people get pissed off when people hack, bot, and RMT; it's not just a bunch of people PMSing for no good reason. Sure it doesn't break US laws but it breaks the moral contracts people in a community make. I don't know about you, but I play FFXI for the good community and it makes me sad when shit like this comes out. People cheapen the hard work I have put into the game to get rewards without the same effort, ya know?

If you believe that something is only wrong if there is a punishment you may want to do some deeper thinking on the subject, that's a selfish standpoint on life, and it wont get you very far.

If you just missed my sentence "From a moral standpoint..." then that's ok, I actually missed it too, when I reread my post. lolz.

Edit: That word order made no sense.

Edited, Oct 9th 2007 1:11am by sonicmonkeys

lol at the Pandemonium section. Lothior and Warrick. Warrick is a nice guy but I'm pretty sure most of his LS uses this application or some other form of it. Lothior is a douche and ..well.. this is expected of him. ;)

Not going to pyramid all that sonic, but here are my views selfish as they may be.

I have played this game since it came out on PS2, I obviously enjoy it a great deal and spend a great deal of time playing with two accounts and many crafting mules.

I personally don't care what other people do in the game. Yes it is a community based game I understand that, but other's actions and game play habits rarely affect my game play and enjoyment. Hell I'm a cheater, I've used windower since I got the PC version. Why? Because it made the game that I enjoy even more enjoyable. I'm not saying what these people did is right or wrong, all I'm saying is it is just a game and people need to stop getting so bent out of shape about it.

And to be honest it took a long break from the game due to a new job to realize all this. Hell my accounts have been inactive for almost 6 months until recently I activated one account for my brother to play.

I mean seriously who cares about SE's terms and conditions?? If they want to ban me for something that makes me keep playing their game and making them money that's fine. I'm not going to cry like a little girl with a skinned knee, I'm going to cut my losses and move on to a new hobby.

If this makes me selfish or a bad person, that's fine I can accept that. This is all online stuff and when it comes down to it people need to look out for their own happiness and enjoyment and quit worrying about what everyone else is doing.

Although I think that list has a lot of witch hunting going on ... I am still not convinced that list really means those people have bought that a cheat, but I do see ... interesting names for my server.

I call that list probably just a list of suspects. No one is guilty unless proven, and since there are no trial, there are no criminals. But of course there are still suspects by the populist. Kind of liking saying O-J Simpson is a murderer or not. The court says he is not guilty, and he is not guilty (but I do hold personal difference with what I believe the correct verdict, but only the court has the say to that).



I think it boils down to, "Will you have fun in a way that someone else is being grieved?" Call me communist or whatever, but I think if I can get "juice" out less personal greed (online or whatever), and it makes a little more people happier, I think I will do it.

The thing is... seeing grumpy faces from others is not all that happy for me too. It is like offering the guy sitting in the same train compartment some of the chips and pop corn you have. Pushing "self-enjoyment" too much... may not be as fun as it sounds like. I guess it takes a balance between self enjoyment and popular interest. The middle ground is the best.

If other (yes that include strangers!) happiness, opinion, or feeling does not concern you, you might as well move to some Pacific island or Siberia and live like a hermit.


Edited, Oct 9th 2007 4:44am by scchan

Scchan, you kind of missed my point in that post. I'm not saying so much that I don't care about the other people playing. I am saying however that for it being a community style game other's actions have little effect on you.

I know you will come back and tell me all about end game, well don't bother, I've been there. And even then other people and LS's did not effect my game play or enjoyment. How you ask? I knew full well going into end game that it would be over crowded with mostly greedy people that would stop at nothing to get what they wanted for their own enjoyment. So I just adjusted my attitude towards the game and did it for fun, not to get uber gear and "mad gilz". I just wanted to experience it to say "hey I did that". Did I get anything worth while out of my time in end game... no not really but I had fun even while competing with known hackers and RMT. It's all what you make of it, and I made fun of it and that is why none of this bothers me.

Edit: Forgot a word.

Edited, Oct 9th 2007 4:59am by jegzus

I recently finally decided to give an HNMLS a shot and applied to Finale only this past weekend ( this was previous to knowing they were basically FIS II)

There are some good people in the ls and some friends so i thought i would give it a chance.

well, today the list of alleged people who have bought FFXIApp was made public and ( no surprise here) lokillo's name was on it as well as Xari's and Miguelo's.

On the list also were friends of mine who are in finale as wel as one of the co-leaders, Hsieh.

If my name had been on that list i would certainly have wanted to know about it asap so i posted the link ( clearly labelling it as "ALLEGATIONS") on the LS forums.

The second reason i posted it was that, if it turned out to be true, the people in the ls had a right to know it. I also withdrew my application to said LS pending further investigation.

well, waddayaknow? I returned to the site a few minute ago and was greeted with this

"You have been banned from this forum.
Please contact the webmaster or board administrator for more information."


I can only assume that someone was probably not secure enough in their own innocence to allow even for the allegation to be publicly discussed in an open forum - a discussion which might have led to an investigation into the real meaning of this list, eventually possibly even exculpation.

If the list is accurate - and i know for a fact that some of those listed did indeed use 3rd pt tools (lokillo, miguelo etc) everyone there should be banned, but we should exercise caution in passing judgment on people whose names have been posted by a notorious hacker who has shown repeatedly that he has less than stellar regard for rules.

oh by the way the thread also contains a posting by a notorious criminal from seraph, clarkeyboy, once again bragging in an offhand way about his hacking.


Edited, Oct 9th 2007 5:04am by Dinousek

Ok. Explain why you whited out the prices in your screenshot on reactivation.

Now, I dont know if reactivation shows up an entry on your billing for that month, however I do know this: your not charged that month for reactivating. Your charged the very next month for the percentage of the last month.

Ie, if you did reactivate in june around the 15th, you would have an additional 50% charge on julys payment for the half month of june you played.

So, why did you white out the prices and the charge date you paid for july? Was it because you paid 20$~ for your char on the 1st?

Hiding your credit card type is fine, understandable. whiting out information that has nothing to deal with your personal finances is fishy.

wheres screen of payment date and amount heh?

Someone should save the list and mirror it somewhere for future reference; Taj will likely overwrite it with his next list of whatever he decides to hack (IGE records please, as difficult as that would be to obtain), as his site previously had that list of people hacked via Friendlist Plus which was replaced with the current list.

Also, fans of Death Note might find his choice of theme particularly telling, given how Light/Kira starts out righteous and lets ego and pride take him over later on. Either way, what Kira did needed to be done, though it was against the law. IMO, Taj did something that needed to be done by making this list public, as illegal as the methods to obtain it were. ... Does Taj fancy himself the creator of a New World?

I still don't think it makes up for the account hacking and item/gil stealing incident recently, that'll forever be a black mark on his reputation. But, I don't think he cares, either.

Well like it or not, this is my attitude and I'll continue to use it so long as I remain correct in my statements. I very openly admit when I am wrong. It just doesn't happen much so people assume I have a "holier than thou" attitude. Its not a crime to be knowledgeable enough to avoid being wrong most of the time.




No, the real point is as far as online matters go, I've provided enough that it will sway the vast majority of opinions that were formed against me at the start of this "list's" act of going public. I don't push internet things farther than I have to. All I had to do in this case was give myself an edge over the naysayers and then they have nothing they can retort with until they come up with some new standpoint. I've put out enough of an edge here and I will wait to see if anyone can give a real counterpoint.



No, this is my bit to do. GTFO