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Keylog Attack ~How My Story Ended~Follow

#77 May 16 2007 at 11:33 AM Rating: Good
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It's my understanding that members of HNMLSs were targeted. Either the hacker went to the LS websites and looked at the rosters, or just kept a list of people that were in behemoth's dominion, dragon's aery, or valley of sorrows near king windows.

When they went to send the mass-tells they probably just had a 3rd-party program that entered the appropriate text into the FFXI client. Or they simply used cut & paste via a windower.

It would be really hard to goto the police for something like this for a couple of reasons. First, you didn't actually have anything stolen since the account is actually owned by SE. Second, whomever did the hacking probably lives outside of the local police's jurasdiction.

With regaurd to banning IP-addresses or blocks of IP-addresses:

This is both impractical b/c large ISPs and universities have blocks of IP addresses which are assigned randomly and b/c it's relatively easy to go through a proxy to get around such a ban.

A more effective way for SE to combat repeat offenders (which would also hit some legit players with less than great credit) would be to stop accepting prepaid gaming cards which are anonymous. If they ONLY accepted credit cards for payment (and account activation), they'ld be able to do a relatively simple check to see if a new account (or an account who's payment information changes) is really a previously banned player.
#78 May 16 2007 at 11:40 AM Rating: Decent
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A more effective way for SE to combat repeat offenders (which would also hit some legit players with less than great credit) would be to stop accepting prepaid gaming cards which are anonymous. If they ONLY accepted credit cards for payment (and account activation), they'ld be able to do a relatively simple check to see if a new account (or an account who's payment information changes) is really a previously banned player.


Isn't pre-paid credit is actually an accepted form of payment from Japanese accounts? (I do not mean pre-paid credit cards, it is more like pre-paid phone card type payment)

I actually do know a few NA play with pre-paid credit cards... I really do not know if anyone will ever find a bullet-proof prescreening that would not hurt both the consumer and the service provider.
____________________________
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel

Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand

A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
#79 May 16 2007 at 11:42 AM Rating: Decent
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3,261 posts
Aedder wrote:
I was the person who said SE says tough sh*t when your account gets hacked.

Anyone who has known me long enough knows I was offered a GM position in the game, and honestly considered taking it for a 2nd job until I got my current fulltime job.

Their policy on account information and lose of accounts is set up in such a way that you can't take an account from someone, even if it was taken from you in nefarious ways. I have reviewed their policys and have a very strong grasp of their policy. If this is a large enough issue, which it looks like it could be, I think SE would reconsider their policy for a short while on a case by case scenerio. It makes sense to do so, and to review each account on it's own, such as if your information was changed say Monday after 9pm up until wedensday at midnight and you call in to report your account stolen.

What SE needs to do is start blocking ISP addresses (I think that is what they are called) from accessing the game of previously banned accounts. Most people have static ISP addresses if my memory serves correctly. They are banning based on CC info, and adding more to that would make sense. Making it tougher for gilsellers, griefers (Mpkers and generally unsavory people who have been banned), and any such person who has been banned from reentering the game.

Yes Hiro screwed up by DLing the zip file, and he admitted so, he isn;t looking for sympathy, but for advice on how to regain control of his account and to give a fair warning to other players. I now pose a question to many of you, why must you bash a man who has admitted where his fault lies? Must you kick a man while he is down and try and make him feel worst? This is what sickens me about our community, and makes many of us angry at each other, a good honest guy has a rough go and you feel the need to tell him something rude. Please if you have any more rude or negative comments for him keep them to yourselves. If you can offer some advice please do so.

Hiro I suggest you call them every hour or two til the call center closes, log as many complaints on your old account as possible and fill their logs in the center so they see you mean business. Immediately ask to speak to a supervisor and refuse to be put on hold. Tell the same story 100 times if you have to, tell it to the same supervisor 100 times if you must, but make sure you waste their time til they make you happy. AS the questions you want to know, eventually they will do one of few things, return your account to you, tell you stop calling, or continue to give you the run around. I doubt they will give you the run around if you are extremely persistent. Good luck Hiro, and I guess we are doing Dyn Sandy without you tonight...

PS I need on the Dyn currency list...


Maybe what I said wasn't the nicest thing in the world, but what would someone honestly expect to come from a post like this? If I were to make a post such as this, outlining all the dumb moves I made that caused my account to be stolen, I would expect almost nothing but these kinds of reactions. Whether or not he was looking for advice from us, it appears he's already made the right decision in contacting the correct people. It's very doubtful that any of us on Allakazam are going to be able to help him out any more than the people he's already spoken with from SE. Plus, if anything, I outlined each mistake intentionally so that other, less computer savvy people, reading this post would know what to avoid doing themselves.
#80 May 16 2007 at 11:58 AM Rating: Default
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313 posts
StubsOnAsura wrote:
I'm shocked at the number of people blaming the OP in this thread. There is a difference between responsibility and absolute responsibility. The OP consciously avoided running the program after he unzipped it, knowing full well the risk. One cannot blame the user's lack of expertise in the matter every single time, and the company (SE) shares some liability in this scenario for making it a) so easy to take over someone's account and b) so hard to get it back.

I have half a mind to report this business practice of "We need your CURRENT cc info to reverse the changes" to the local news media to see what kind of public response this gets. I think each and every one of you bashing the OP knows SE's policy is just as much to blame, but won't admit it for fear of not stroking SE's proverbial cock long enough.



Stubs, Seriously, GFY. Your Bank (okay maybe not in the states, but here in Canada) has HUGE notices posted telling you not to DL things from sources you cannot verify. At least in my office there are signs posted warning about id theft (likely because we are a government agency), the news is filled with stories about it. We all get spam every day, more then a few are phishing scams, and we are warned about them all the time.

Yes, it sucks that SE's policy won't let hiro get his account back, however did you stop for a minute and think there is a reson for policy like this? A CC number is one thing you can reasonably assume a person is going to keep safe, Not CD-Keys, not passwords, nothing else. Hiro agreed to Square's policies every time he logged in and pressed the I accept button. He knew, or at least square had every expectation that he knew their policies, and had read the latest version. What might have helped is if Square used a seperate program or web form to change your CC info, you would need ANOTHER password (not that many would) to change that.

Hiro, and ANYONE else who falls for this sort of thing is at fault. They didn't bother to think, or pay attention and they get burned for it, it sucks but it's life. There are all sorts of bottom feeders out there who make money scamming people out of what's theirs. It's your own responsibility to ensure that they don't catch you.



BTW, Sorry Hiro. I don't mean to imply that you're an idiot. Everyone gets burned once or twice in their life by something. If you end up starting a new character, look me (alricflaim) up. I might not know you, and I might not have any gil, but I can likely offer you some help of some sort on your climb back to the top of the pile.


Edited for coherency. Posting over time during the afternoon at work makes things sometimes disjointed

Edited, May 16th 2007 4:02pm by alricflaim
#81 May 16 2007 at 12:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Other people, including corporates, your colleagues or whatever, does not have the responsibility to babysit anyone from doing things of lack of common sense.

Oh well... oh well.... Why in US courthouses would award damages to someone as stupid putting coffee in between their legs..... If you fooked up, you eat it yourself and do better next time. You do not go find someone to blame first and do not take personal responsibility.

Edited, May 16th 2007 4:11pm by scchan
____________________________
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel

Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand

A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
#82 May 16 2007 at 12:13 PM Rating: Decent
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SE wrote:
Article 2: Data Collection and Privacy
In the course of your playing the Game and using the PlayOnline Service, you may accumulate certain usage statistics, score information, character traits, performance records and other Game-related data that are stored for you in the Game and on PlayOnline servers (collectively, your "Player Data"). SEI makes no assurances, representations or warranties whatsoever about the accuracy, currency or continuing availability of this Player Data at any time and reserves its right, at any time and from time to time, without notice to you, to delete all or any part of your Player Data. SEI shall have no liability to you or to any third party for any such deletion, and further shall not be held responsible for any complete or partial deletion done or caused by you, any third party, or other act or occurrence beyond SEI's reasonable control, such as a fire, power outage, natural disaster, terrorist act, equipment failure or any other such act or occurrence, whether or not similar to the foregoing. In addition, your Player Data and other information about you are subject to our PlayOnline Service Privacy Policy, which you should review in its entirety and may be accessed under the "Rules & Policies" section of the PlayOnline Viewer and Website. You agree that you will not store or attempt to store any personal information or player data about other PlayOnline users, except to the extent that such storage is an integral part of the Game and necessary in order for you to play the Game.


From the horses mouth. Part of the TOS you agree to EVERY TIME you log in to the game.
#83 May 16 2007 at 12:41 PM Rating: Decent
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With regaurd to NAs & JPs using prepaid cards (not prepaid credit cards) for payment.

They sell the relivant pre-paid cards at almost all gaming stores. I actually know quite a few people on their 2nd or 3rd accounts who are quite blatant about the fact that they're anonymous and the only way they're really able to continue playing.

Everyone that has been banned once and has tried to come back using a credit/debit card (e.g. non-anonymous payment) SE has re-banned relatively quickly.
#84 May 16 2007 at 12:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

They sell the relivant pre-paid cards at almost all gaming stores. I actually know quite a few people on their 2nd or 3rd accounts who are quite blatant about the fact that they're anonymous and the only way they're really able to continue playing.


As more a question of ethics in game >< Why would people keep doing things that get them banned? I am pretty sure I can guess what they have done to get them banned -- probably botting/hacking the game. Is it really hard ... to not to cheat in the game?
____________________________
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel

Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand

A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
#85 May 16 2007 at 12:48 PM Rating: Good
There was a guy, and this was probably a year or two ago, that had his character stolen. SE gave him the same story, that it was being paid for by someone and there's nothing they can do. Instead of just giving up this guy kept at it.

If I remember it correctly he called his credit card company and told them that he was being charged every month for the last X amount of years for something that SE said was not in his possession. His credit card company opened an inquiry with SE and basically SE had to give his toon back or they would have had to refund him the money that he had already spent on it in the past.

I would call the credit card company and say you're being charged for a service that SE says you don't use/have.
#86 May 16 2007 at 12:51 PM Rating: Default
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There was a guy, and this was probably a year or two ago, that had his character stolen. SE gave him the same story, that it was being paid for by someone and there's nothing they can do. Instead of just giving up this guy kept at it.

If I remember it correctly he called his credit card company and told them that he was being charged every month for the last X amount of years for something that SE said was not in his possession. His credit card company opened an inquiry with SE and basically SE had to give his toon back or they would have had to refund him the money that he had already spent on it in the past.

I would call the credit card company and say you're being charged for a service that SE says you don't use/have.


You knowingly lie to force negotiations when both credit card company and SE have no wrong doing/mistake but yourself?
____________________________
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel

Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand

A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
#87 May 16 2007 at 12:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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932 posts
scchan wrote:
Other people, including corporates, your colleagues or whatever, does not have the responsibility to babysit anyone from doing things of lack of common sense.

Oh well... oh well.... Why in US courthouses would award damages to someone as stupid putting coffee in between their legs..... If you fooked up, you eat it yourself and do better next time. You do not go find someone to blame first and do not take personal responsibility.

Edited, May 16th 2007 4:11pm by scchan


McDonalds Coffee Case Facts. Before you go attacking something, know something about it. I'm not saying there aren't frivolous lawsuits attempted in the US, but this wasn't one of them.
#88 May 16 2007 at 12:53 PM Rating: Default
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If you do things that violate common sense, you suck it yourself. You don't sue or blame another party.

Edited, May 16th 2007 4:53pm by scchan
____________________________
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel

Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand

A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
#89 May 16 2007 at 12:54 PM Rating: Good
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3,432 posts
Quote:
As more a question of ethics in game >< Why would people keep doing things that get them banned? I am pretty sure I can guess what they have done to get them banned -- probably botting/hacking the game. Is it really hard ... to not to cheat in the game?


That's kinda my point. They need to remove them as a method of payment b/c people use them specifically to return after getting banned.

I'ld bet that the number of 2nd-hand accounts, returning banned players, and hackers/cheaters using prepaid cards is at least 10x higher than those that pay with credit/debit cards.
#90 May 16 2007 at 1:05 PM Rating: Good
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914 posts
Someone mentioned legal action.
Now I am by no means a lawyer or even remotly educated in the law.

But technically the individuals who did this are stealing.
As such I have 3 words for you.
Class Action Lawsuit

These people wont stop until someone hits them where it hurts.
If you get a large group together and se cant or wont appease most of you.
Go after the people who are stealing.
Tracking them down may be difficult, if not impossible.
However this is the kind of attention se does not want.
They may not be paying attention now but lawyer up and youll have it.

By no means Im I saying you should sue se.
Just get organized.


....hookedonphoiznotworkingsowelz

Edited, May 16th 2007 3:18pm by Jacine
#91 May 16 2007 at 1:06 PM Rating: Good
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932 posts
scchan wrote:
If you do things that violate common sense, you suck it yourself. You don't sue or blame another party.

Edited, May 16th 2007 4:53pm by scchan

Assuming my post hit at one second past the minute, and your post hit at one second before the next minute ended, you had about one and a half minutes to read the article i posted then come back here and reply (then edit your reply).
Considering the length of the article, i don't think you actually read it, and will therefore disregard anything you have to say.


#92scchan, Posted: May 16 2007 at 1:09 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Yes I didn't read it. But common sense tell me:
#93 May 16 2007 at 1:13 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
You knowingly lie to force negotiations when both credit card company and SE have no wrong doing/mistake but yourself?

Would you rather he sit and do nothing? I wonder if it would be so easy for you to speak down to people if you were the one in this situation? And yes, in this circumstance I would. SE cannot do anything to help, but your credit card company can. Kindly keep your opinions to yourself, I was attempting to help the OP, not you.
#94 May 16 2007 at 1:17 PM Rating: Decent
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914 posts
Quote:
Stupidity should never be rewarded.

Indeed

Who is (lol) stupider?

The man who leaves his wallet at a gas pump?
The man who takes it and gets caught on tape?

Point is its still your wallet even if you do something dumb with it.

Edited, May 16th 2007 3:20pm by Jacine
#95scchan, Posted: May 16 2007 at 1:19 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I just do not like people twisting facts and common sense to avoid personal responsibility. If you ***** up, you go out to do better. Not finding loop holes in somewhere to avoid personal responsibility.
#96 May 16 2007 at 1:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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932 posts
scchan wrote:
Yes I didn't read it. But common sense tell me:

1) You do not put hot drinks between your legs.
2) People like to drink hot coffee or other hot drinks because that tastes better and warms your body. Cold (as in room temperature, not iced) coffee is less tasteful.

Common sense beats long essays.

Edited, May 16th 2007 5:09pm by scchan



The drink accidentially spilled, the plantiff was looking for 20 thousand dollars after undergoing multiple skin grafts. The plaintiff was found 20% at fault for the accident.

Coffee at 135 degrees is good (home served temp).
Coffee at 185 degrees will cause 3rd degree burns instantly (mcdonalds temp).

As a PH.D. candidate in meteorology, you should be able to tell me something about thermodynamics and the cooling rates of liquids exposed to air. McDonalds coffee, as it was served at the time (185 +/- 5 degrees, it's sinced been reduced to 158 degrees, which would indicate some semblence of guilt), was undrinkable for several minutes after serving. They knew that people would drink it in the car, and still served it at a dangerous temperature.

"...the judge called McDonalds' conduct reckless, callous and willful.."

Could the same be said for how SE is handling what's going on here? Nope.

#97 May 16 2007 at 1:22 PM Rating: Default
Its was bound to happen, sounds like an American player. :P SE sucks. They could easily get around this. When you call they have a random question they ask you to change your password, might be your address or what not. They only ask this question when you call, not in the viewer which is just plain stupid. They should be asking it in the viewer, if they did the hacker could only change your information if he had personal information. Not only that one of the questions is your content ID number when you first buy the game, which is a physical number that hey could never get a hold of unless they walked into your house and stole the box...Anyways if they implement the same measures they do over the phone in the actual viewer it would probaly cut half of the accounts being stolen. Even with a key logger by the time they got the awnser to your question you'd already be in there and have it changed. And besides even if they didn't the odds of them being asked the same question is 1/4 (since there is 4 questions I believe...maybe 5). All SE has to do is implement the same damn precautions they implement on the phone. Though even with all this the keylogger still be there at least with the password changed you can now reformat your computer before logging back on.
#98 May 16 2007 at 1:22 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
I just do not like people twisting facts and common sense to avoid personal responsibility. If you ***** up, you go out to do better. Not finding loop holes in somewhere to avoid personal responsibility.

Welcome to planet Earth. You must be new here.
#99 May 16 2007 at 1:23 PM Rating: Default
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If a bank allowed this sort of thing there would be an uproar.

In most states it is *illegal* for a company to not protect it's customers from identity theft. They can't simply say "Sorry they have your account number so they own your account now".

How the hell does SE even get away with this?
____________________________
Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#100 May 16 2007 at 1:29 PM Rating: Decent
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1,235 posts
Quote:
... btw, I was the next person in line when they ran out of PS3s.


People stood in line where you live?

****, they can't and haven't been able to sell PS3's in my area since it released.
#101 May 16 2007 at 1:31 PM Rating: Decent
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1,158 posts
Quote:
How the hell does SE even get away with this?


http://www.labbb.org/BBBWeb/Forms/Business/CompanyReportPage_Expository.aspx?CompanyID=13168063

Meh I love Final Fantasy but they really need to work on customer service.

Edited, May 16th 2007 5:32pm by Cookiemonkey
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