Some insight into the growing 'HL noob problem'.Follow

I blame it on people who will do absolutely nothing but mana/arrow/monkburns. As a result, there are ppl running around with absolutely no concept of the hate line, my favorite being the blm i recently partied with who casted burst 5 seconds into battle, just seconds after I used my first provoke.

I love how playing BST has given me a 'heightened sense of awareness'. I see all agro ranges and navigate very easily through mob infested terrain. I have become very accustomed to death which has tought me how to better deal with sticky situations with a quick reaction. And it doesn't even matter what job I am playing at the time anymore, I just use whatever resources I have to survive.

(EDIT: uh oh, looks like this thread got trolled)

Edited, Mon Oct 17 05:41:50 2005 by Webjunky

High level noobs tend to be mages, seeing as they can just rush up half-arsing their job. Every time I see a red mage saying "Lols I'm a red mage because it's fast to leve", I die inside.

I won't name names of total noobs though *Cough*Thesehan on Cerberus*cough*

I don't think it's the exclusive levelling to 75 that makes the influx of high level n00bs. Nor is it doing things like CoP missions or rank missions/quests that make people non-n00bs. CoP came out after the first groups of players made it to 75.

I think it's because people keep wanting things easier, and this includes missions and quests as well. Some general things I think that make for all the high-level n00bs out there.

1. Powerlevelling early and often. A lot of people believe themselves entitle to powerlevels throughout the solo levels, throughout the dunes, into Qufim and even beyond. I've seen a PL party out in Valley of Sorrows. Think about that.

2. Religous adherence to the Perfect Party setups. Part of this I blame on CoP and the level caps. Everytime I hear a /shout for Promy parties, almost all of them are waiting on either Rangers or Summoners. People will wait hours in a party doing nothing because they're waiting for a RDM or BRD to suddenly pop. I've had an EXP party purposefully fight with just 5 people in the hopes of getting a RDM, when any 6th could have made the whole thing faster and safer. I've seen BLMs who've said Manaburn Onry! Instead of working with what's available, people will wait for what will 'guarantee them a win' or 'get them the best EXP per hour'.

3. Insistance on high level help for just about anything. Lots of people don't just /shout in Jeuno for help anymore. They shout for level 75 help on everything from AF1 to LB3. The people don't have to do any sort of work to get their goals beyond show up.

4. Using the same strategies even though another one would work (e.g. using Distortion skillchain even if another one would produce a bigger damage output). Few people will ever allow themselves a setup that requires them to do something other than what they've always done.

This doesn't apply to just EXP, this applies to all the missions and quests.

Guess what? EXP parties can train us for doing missions and quests, if we let them.

Getting to the Spires of the Promyvions is an exercise in avoiding aggro from true sight monsters. Just taking a level 10 character to the dunes can be a good exercise in avoiding aggro.

For a lot of the missions, one strategy is to do as much damage as possible in a short amount of time. Ammoburns/Manaburns are actually good practice for that if you happen to have bunches of RNG or BLM available.

If people worked with what was available, they'd learn more strategies. No tank jobs seeking, but plenty of DDs with /WAR? Make a speedkill party. No RDMs or BRDs, but an extra BLM or WHM. Invite that extra and have one rest or back up heal while the other does the work, so that one healer/nuker is always fresh while the other regains MP. I've been in a party with 2 WHMs and no refresher and it's worked surprisingly well.

That works with other strategies. Don't have a BLM for some reason? Then why the hell are you using Distortion when the closing weapon skill is Vorpal Scythe or whatever? If the mob is weak to something other than ice, or strong to water, why are you using Distortion?

No matter what people are doing, most of them will choose the easy way out, or the one that's always worked. So when the times for them to get challenged, they don't know how to handle it, because if the 'one right way' doesn't get them what they need, nothing will.

Yes Xylia, I absolutely agree.

I think it was great that SE put a level cap on many of the COP missions. It forces people to actually take part in things rather than just watch while someone 20 levels higher do the work for them.
It also puts an element of challenge back into the game. I see those PM fights as valuable education.

Hmmm, here's my opinions on SE's design for CoP missions, I think SE made CoP a sort of training course:

Promyvions:

1). Teach people to farm and prepare beforehand.
2). Teach people about True Sight and have them practice avoiding mobs without Sneak and Invisible.

Phomuina Aqueducts:

1). Teach people about special mobs and what happens if you kill too many of them....
2). Teach people that you need to turn around to avoid Ray attacks.

Riverne Site #A01:

1). Teach people you don't always fight a single boss.
2). Teach people how to kite.
3). Teach people how to conserve MP.

Diabolos:

1). Teach people they need to do cutscenes in order. LOL.
2). Teach people that some of those 'lesser' jobs can be lifesavers.
3). Show off some of SE's awesome artwork and landscaping. (Anyone who has done the Mimeo Mirror knows what I mean.)

This is as far as I've gotten so I can't really say what else these things teach people.

--Xylia

I was shocked to find the Crawler's Nest PT I was in had no concept of skillchains. Me and the BLM there were going {Skillchain}?

They simply randomly spammed firepower into anything short of exorays. Amazingly, we kept them all alive with a SUM/WHM, BLM/RDM, and RDM/BLM. No skillchains, so we couldn't shut down mobs early with MB's. We were resorting to bludgeoning the mobs with DD spells till we got aggro (at least they knew the Provoke key), then Draining, repeating the process.

I've taken to carrying a SC chart ever since by my computer...because the only cure for PL n00bism is education. Teach them now, or pay in exp loss forever.

Powerleveling makes ignorant players. FFXI kills ignorant players and the PT's they're in. If you've got ignorant players, keep them away from anything that requires intelligence until you can get them taught how the game really works. If they then prove to be not ignorant, but simply stupid...blacklist them. You're saving yourself pain and suffering.

Not everyone can Chainspell-Warp out of a nightmare PT, after all. :P

I agree with Xylia's points -- you basically have two 'levels' in this game -- 1) your actual exp, and 2) your experience with the game's mechanics and how well you handle yourself in the game.

- Guaging enough distance between aggroing mobs in order to re-sneak/re-invis yourself without pulling aggro.
- Guaging when to click off your existing sneak in order to reapply as smoothly as possible.
- Knowing the different aggro ranges of different mobs, and knowing what each aggros to what, and using that to your advantage when trying to worm your way through an aggro zone.
- Knowing the range of magic aggro mobs so you can still recast sneak even in Ro'Maeve/Ifrit's Cauldron.
- Knowing the range of mob AoE's so you can stand in a safe place while watching another ls fight their HNM and not die (Fafnir <_<)
- Knowing how to slip by true-sight and true-sound mobs.
- Being aware of your surroundings at all times (especially applicable in Al'Taieu with the aggroing phuabos underneath you and the yovras above you)
- Knowing how to move together efficiently as a large alliance.
- Knowing what actions to take in case of emergencies.
- Knowing that, if you're a mage, you can just cast Stoneskin on yourself while walking through the left side of Attohwa so you don't have to keep casting Poisona over and over again.

I've been level 75 for the greater part of my FFXI career, but most of the skills I listed above I learnt AFTER I hit level 75 and began my first forays into endgame. When I first hit level 75, I was no different from a level 60 in the skills I knew and my overall experience aboout the game.

However, when my endgame shell just started (when I was level 72), we did not camp properly for 3-4 weeks. Those 3-4 weeks we would go on runs through Temple of Uggalepih and Den of Rancor, training ourselves to be skilled at aggro and moving together. We did not touch a 'proper' HNM until we were sure we had had enough practice with emergency situations. It paid off, because this first batch of members that my ls had were considerably more skilled at moving through zones and being aware of their surroundings.

I've completed CoP, and all my fights except one (Promyvion-Dem) were done with my ls, mostly people who had to cope with many instances of 'emergency situations', whether during HNMs, Dynamis, ENMs, or missions. I'm 1/1 on all my fights except for Snoll Tzar -- we've been in Dynamis and we've walked through Uleguerand Range to reach jormungand; Promyvion isn't that much more difficult. The pickup Dem group I did was comprised mostly of riff-raff, people who mainly only leveled and did not face as much emergency situations daily as my ls did -- and we got aggro every few steps, while my ls did Mea in a full alliance, in 30 mins from start to the end of the BC fight. Even pre-RNG patch, my ls always relied on skillchains and MBs to kill Kirin, and so after the patch we only took 15 more mins to kill him (45 mins record).

SO, it's worth it going out on little escapades and adventures -- save someone with tractor and escape, go on more missions, face more "OMGINEEDTODOSOMETHINGNOW" situations. Do difficult quests, have exciting adventures with friends. If you're a whm, go on escapades that put yourself in danger to raise a friend (I once had to tractor and raise an ls mate in Al'Taieu with a Yovra above me and a Phuabo just beside me, and another time I had to raise several people in Ro'Maeve without using sneak oils).

It's ok to lose exp in exchange for these adventures sometimes, as you learn so much about handling yourself in the game. Some of my ls mates are adventure freaks and anything that involves death in a fun way attracts them <_<;

Edited, Sun Oct 16 22:28:25 2005 by Whren

CoP > EXP to me
>.>
im serious
I really agree with you.

this is one of the many reasons i <3 CoP, it teaches you something, unlike ZM's or Rank Missions

Edited, Mon Oct 17 00:07:18 2005 by Ethoss

Want another reason?

Don't let your friends go into exp parties for you.

I was cautious.

I've yet to get my own account, but for ~6ish months, I've been playing on my friend's account. I did all kinds of stuff. Level his mule. Do H.E.L.M. for gil. Craft. Farm items.

My friend thinks it would be awesome if I could exp party for him too. So do I. I've tanked only one time by that time in a level 50 capped area. At that time, he was ~level 66 PLD.

So first party I get, I get kicked out because I lag out unfortunately and couldn't tank because of that. No biggie.

Second one, I do prettybadly in, but think it's fine since we rig in 4.5K/hour without any deaths (w00t 2nd time ever tanking). Apparently, I really sucked. I lacked that experience one develops from either watching others do the job and from doing it themselves. I only knew how it was to be done in theory.

So for a while after, my friend's char's reputation is ruined. Not fatally, but blemished nonetheless.

Therefore, don't let your friends party for you ever if they never played that job. Or rather, to be safe, don't let them party for you at all.

I agree. But there's also another bad thing that these "burn parties" bring. Most people who do this, have no concept of real team work. All the now is "spam, spam, spam, spam..." And they apply this everything in the game. Like if you wana fight a HMN or something, the only strategy these people are capable of coming up with is a some sort of burn strategy.

Due to the lack of partying with other jobs, they also become ignorant on how these other jobs work. So when someone proposes a strategy that doesn't involve spamming much, they immediately claim that it wont work, and that all other jobs "suck". This is their way of defending their lack of knowledge on real team work, and other jobs. How do I know this is true? Because I have seen way too many high lvl BLM (and high lvl RNG back in the day), ask what Souleater is, or what Meditate is, or what Assassin is, etc, etc. -.-

just one point to add that has been mentioned, but not really emphasized:

teamwork.

we talk about SCs, about MBs, about knowing your surroundings, about being versatile in a PT (or as versatile as the PT makeup allows), about not-PL-ing, about knowing one's job well, etc.

but what a HL-noob (so named) lacks most in all of that, is the concept of teamwork. just to re-tag a few of the above to illustrate:

"knowing one's job well" -> "knowing one's job well IN RELATION TO OTHER JOBS"

"knowing how SC works" -> "knowing how SC works WITH AVAILABLE WEAPONS IN THE PT"

"not PL-ing" -> "not PL-ing PEOPLE WHO DO NOT KNOW HOW TO PLAY IN A FUNCTIONAL PT"

in essence, TEAMWORK, imho.

Why did this thread get trolled? Hmm, I guess I'ma try and rate everyone back up again...