Understanding Hate.
It doesn’t matter what job you play, understanding how hate works in a party is of paramount importance if you expect to play well. This is a fact that seems to be lost on many players who do not play jobs that fall into the Tank category.
Many mages would benefit greatly by understanding hate better. Many, many, tanks would benefit as well.
I have played every class of tank there is. Granted most I’ve not played past 30 and therefore I only have a basic knowledge of how they work. NO job truly hit’s its prime before level 30. Others do not reach it until past 40.
This thread has been posted on the main forum and just about every job forum. I have recived a great deal of feedback and have made the atempt to adjust this thread to reflect the feedback.
Either way, This is NOT the bible of hate. This is the PHAMPLET of hate. The kind of thing you would hand your friend who knows nothing about it.
The following is my views on how hate is accumulated and dissipated throughout the course of a fight. I use my personal experience and observations as a reference since there is very little else I’ve found (in the forums and in other places online) that goes into detail about this subject.
First: The Basics.
Hate is, in a nut shell, how badly the Mob wants to attack you. This game is a program and the program is running a crude form of artificial intelligence. A Mob is always faced with the fact that it is going to be out-numbered. Usually 6 to 1. To give it a fighting chance the programmers gave Mobs “Hate†or "Enmity" so that a Mob may determine who the greatest threat is and thereby attacking that threat first.
Each party member does things that accumulate hate. The person that accumulates the most hate will be attacked by the Mob. To understand how you accumulate hate I want you to think of a bucket.
Just a normal pail that holds about 5 gallons of water.
Now imagine that the bucket has around 30-50 holes in it. Say the holes are half an inch in diameter. These holes are evenly spread around the surface of the bucket. If you poured water into the bucket it would, almost as quickly as you poured it in, empty out the holes.
If you had a garden hose and turned it on half way, then you could fill the bucket faster than the water could empty out the holes. Turn off the hose and the water leaks out.
The level of water in the bucket is the same as the level of hate.
Now also imagine that every member of the party has their own bucket and their own hose. During the fight they are doing things that fill up their bucket.
Let’s now imagine that the Mob is a very damn thirsty dog. Also for the sake of the analogy let’s say that the dog will only drink from the bucket that is the most full.
What a stupid dog… Moving on.
Now each time the dog’s tongue laps water out of the bucket there is less water in there. (I know, obvious statement, but keep in mind that some of the people reading this have trouble using the right-click on a mouse.)((and after seeing some of the comments I've gotten some people still don't get this.)) Because of this, wherever the dog is, it’s harder to keep water in the bucket.
So here we are, all 6 of us, on the back porch with six hoses and six buckets. The Tank starts pouring water into his bucket and the dog comes running. Once the dog starts drinking the others start pouring water into their buckets. As long as the tank keeps more water in his than anyone else the dog will keep drinking out of his bucket and life is a good thing.
Until Timmy Bakus (that idiot BLM from next door) Blasts his hose on full force and now there is water pouring out of the top of his bucket. Now the dog comes rushing over to drink. The Tank may be blasting his bucket full as well but if he’s got a kink in his hose, Timmy is going to get slobbered for a minute before his bucket gets drained and the dog wanders back over to the Tank’s bucket.
Ok now at this point if you haven’t got the concept of hate, stop right-clicking and scroll back up to read it again.
Provoke: The Only Way To Tank.
If you don’t have Provoke in your JA’s then it is going to be harder for you to keep hate. Anyone with provoke will be better at quickly getting hate.
Period.
They will also be able to maintain hate better with a steady stream of provokes than with out it.
Provoke is the yard stick by which all other things are measured when it comes to hate. Every Amount of Damage/HP Healed/Spell/Job Ability/Weapon Skill/Special Power/Bad Hair Day produces hate. Some are stronger than Provoke (very few) the rest are much weaker. But Provoke has something that none of the rest have.
It’s hard to quantify but in simplest terms: PROVOKE IS DESIGNED TO **** THINGS OFF.
Sure every bit of damage done or every bit of HP healed gathers enmity, but none of those are programmed by the designers to make a mob mad at you. The Enmity AI does take into account everything else being done, but it pays special attention to provoke.
Special attention as in when you provoke, the mob hears “I’m going to tear you left nipple off and shove it up your nostril while forcing you to watch re-runs of Leave it to Beaver with commentary by Henry Kissenger.â€
It takes a lot to ignore that.
It is possible for a Mob to ignore Provoke completely. But it when used it will "fill your bucket" quite a bit.
I've also noticed that anything I do RIGHT after a Provoke has more effect than if I'd done it by it's self or before the Provoke. So If I provoke then do a WS for a lot of damage I keep hate much longer than if I do the WS first then Voke.
One other thing I need to clairify about Provoke: It's always the same. A provoke is not like the swing of a weapon that will do a variable amout of damage. Provoke is constant in how much hate it gathers.
There is a great deal of arguement on wheather Provoke gains strentgh as you level or if it's always the same. I beleive that it's always the same. (but that just my opinion and I have little to back it with.)
and one final note: You CHA has nothing to do with how strong your Provoke is. (I've no way to prove it but damnit it doesn't)
By The Numbers.
This is a list of arbitrary numbers that help describe how much hate each of the items listed produces. Every thing is measured against Provoke which is given a value of one. As you look this over please keep in mind that It’s a work in progress.
One day we may actually discover excatly what Provoke does and this of course will all change. However for the time being it can guide you a little in the flow of hate.
DAMAGE and HEALING are not covered here. I’ll get to that in a sec because it’s a little different.
(Keep in mind I’m listing the amount of hate that these things gather when you ACTIVATE them, not anything they do after that. For example Hundred Fists gathers TONS of hate but I’m only counting the activation here, not the awe inspiring damage done later)
WAR: Mighty Strikes: 0.3 Provoke: 1.0 Berserk: 0.2 Defender: 0.2 Warcry 0.9 Aggressor: 0.2 NOTE: Warcry will gather more hate depending on how many people you "buff" with it. I would say add about 0.15 for every person that recives an attack bonus when you fire it off. MNK: Several MNKs offered suggestions on these and I feel this better represents these skills Hundred Fists: 0.3 Boost: 0.5 Dodge: 0.3 Focus: 0.3 Chakra: 0.4 (And Plus how ever many HP you get) Counterstance: 0.7 PLD: GonadSandStrifE suggested these numbers. Invincible: 2.0 (Plus the fact that the mob is not damaging you and therefore you are not losing enmity.) Holy Circle: 0.1 Shield Bash: 0.3 Sentinel: 0.3 Cover: 0.2 Rampart: 0.9 Flash: 0.7 NOTE: Rampart will gather more hate depending on how many people you "buff" with it. I would say add about 0.15 for every person that recives a defence bonus when you fire it off.
If you beleive that you have numbers on your job's abilites then please post them. I can always edit this again.
Damage & Healing:
For the longest time I tried to work out the exact number of damage/HP Done/Recovered that equaled the exact amount of hate. But it wasn’t working. In the lower levels two Cure II’s would doom a WHM where as 25 levels later a WHM could Cure II all day with out a second glance.
Then my friend pointed out to me that it’s probably linked to the % of the total HP.
To be more specific lets look at healing first:
Only for the purpose of clarification lets say that 33% of total HP healed is about one provoke.
Now please keep in mind that in the middle of a fight that one provoke out of the blue is not going to get hate. Not if the tank is doing his job. But if the WHM suddenly cures you for 66% of your total HP The mob will jump him.
Also it's observed that when the WHM heals other PT members, who usually have less HP than the Tank, he/she doesn't get aggro as often as when the WHM does heal the Tank.
This is why Benediction is such a hate spike. Close to 100% HP restoration on 6 people… yeah that’s like 10 Provokes.
I have pulled hate off of a WHM that used Benediction. A few times in fact.
I’ve never saved a PLD from Invincible. However others who have posted say they have. So it's possible, but it takes a lot of enmity.
Damage works the same way only the % is baised on the HP of the mob, not the player hitting the mob. The more % of the mobs total HP you take away the more hate you get. Again I’m not sure exactly how much but the more the better. THFs can GLUE enmity to a tank with a very strong SATA.
This area, as I expected, was contended quite a bit. I don't have any way to show the relation these things have on hate. Just understand that Damage and Healing are huge hate hoarders. The more Damage/Healing you do the more hate you get.
PLEASE don't post and tell me that 33% of HP done doesn't equal one provoke. I already know that. I just pulled some numbers out of my furry *** to help describe how I think it works. It would take a LOT of parsed data (and an exact knowledge of the mobs total HP) to prove or show credit to my ideas.
Right now they are just ideas.
Others
More or less any JA activation of any job is going to do from 0.2-0.4. If the JA gives you a bonus but doesn't negitivly effect you then it will be high. If it gives and takes it will be lower.
Any ability that lets you block an attack like Parry or Counter is like keeping the dog’s tongue from actually getting any water out. With Counter the damage you do back is also added to your Enmity. Counterstance which increases your chance of Counter would therefore increase your Enmity in a round about way.
The important thing to remember is that to keep hate you must continue to gather hate. Blocking or using a "blink" effect doesn't gain hate and it doesn't lose it. In a race you lose if you stand still.
Some have stated that a Dispell will do around 0.2 to 0.3. Some mages who have dispelled severl effects at once have been aggroed by the mob.
There are still many other points and subjects to this. hopefully I can add do it and make this a more complete guide.
If you find something to be inaccurate, tell me why you think is wrong and what you think it should be. If enough other people agree with you then I'll change it.
Edited, Wed Jun 1 20:39:12 2005 by GrumpyWookie