OK, excuse the stupid question, but when using the Super-Paladin strategy couldn't the paladin also beat up on the claimed (the one everyone else is beating up on) Mammet? Or do you really want the paladin away from the group so s/he's not getting hit by the -ga spells?
I'm curious because this is the same strategy we used for the Wings of Fury BCNM and after a few tries we got it down pat. The difference was that our tank was also tanking the claimed bat after getting aggro. If the warrior and I didn't touch the other bats they wouldn't even look at us no matter what we did with/to the tank.
My only concern is the -ga spells. Those suckers hurt. ;_; Also, if the paladin can't fight the claimed mammet, does he just stand there getting hit or does he run around the arena screaming like a little girl?
Curious minds want to know.
Thank you. ^^ Heck, /hugs to you too for the guide.
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Lol thats what I thaught until the fight :)
Does anyone know if gravity will stick to these NMs for kiting?
Bump, and this is getting added to my favorites in IE :
Can you make it to Monarch Linn with just 1 party?
Edited, Sun May 8 18:05:45 2005 by Osarion
Can you make it to Monarch Linn with just 1 party?
Edited, Sun May 8 18:05:45 2005 by Osarion
Edited, Sun May 8 18:33:01 2005 by fishstickz
Did this a couple of days ago. Many thanks for this guide.
BC beat us once, then we came back a few days later and won. PLD, BRD, THF, WHM, RNG, RNG. THF kited one while I (PLD) tanked the other two. Killed on pretty quickly with barrage and EES, then killed the other in a more normal way. THF brought the third, and we killed it. We expected to have to die and reraise after killing one or two, but we were fine.
Getting to Monarch Linn was very easy once we'd done it once. Took maybe 20 minutes including farming the scales.
Since invincible doesn't claim the enemy, it also doesn't build hate against unclaimed mobs. I used it at the start of the fight, and the THF had no trouble pulling an unclaimed Mammet to kite when it wore off.
BC beat us once, then we came back a few days later and won. PLD, BRD, THF, WHM, RNG, RNG. THF kited one while I (PLD) tanked the other two. Killed on pretty quickly with barrage and EES, then killed the other in a more normal way. THF brought the third, and we killed it. We expected to have to die and reraise after killing one or two, but we were fine.
Getting to Monarch Linn was very easy once we'd done it once. Took maybe 20 minutes including farming the scales.
Quote:
{Invincible} isn't going to affect the status of the enemy as far as claimed versus not claimed, so I don't see why it should do anything (other than, of course, the usual effect). Might make it a bit rough to peel that one off the PLD if necessary.
Since invincible doesn't claim the enemy, it also doesn't build hate against unclaimed mobs. I used it at the start of the fight, and the THF had no trouble pulling an unclaimed Mammet to kite when it wore off.
Note that Hawkertraps and Riverne Vultures are charmable, and both go as low as EM, so no need for jug pets. Vultures start at 40, but Hawkertraps sometimes go as low as 39. Also note that Hawkertraps are charm resistant. And I don't mean crawler charm resistant. I mean Opo or slime charm resistant. So vultures are the way to go.
Because of this, I've been able to solo probably 10 Hippogryphs w/o too much trouble. I also killed one firedrake, but I don't recommend trying it. Those bastards are tough. Brought me down to 1 HP. And it didn't even drop anything. 200 EXP, though. :/
Because of this, I've been able to solo probably 10 Hippogryphs w/o too much trouble. I also killed one firedrake, but I don't recommend trying it. Those bastards are tough. Brought me down to 1 HP. And it didn't even drop anything. 200 EXP, though. :/
Quote:
Does anyone know if gravity will stick to these NMs for kiting?
Can anyone answer this?
Yes, yes it will. Or at least it did the 5 or so times our LS redmage was forced to do it :P
You really should add THF as one of the best kiters for this fight. With capped evasion, all the +evasion gear you can find, and utseumi the mammets will hardly hit you. They would hit me once for about every 10 misses. I wore every +eva and +agi item I could find, minus dodge earrings since none were in stock. Then eat a jack o lantern for an additional +10 evasion. I think I had over +40 evasion in gear.
xizro wrote:
A few notes:
Hyppogryphs have true sight but their cone of vision is extremely limited, so you can do some "risky" moves while moving.
The Mammets also have a "RNG-like" form, where they shoot with a little gun (I locked one in this form so I can confirm this). Annoying attack more than troubling since the damage is low (can interrupt spells since it's fast). If you have a DRK that manages to absorb-AGI them in this form they will miss often.
Hyppogryphs have true sight but their cone of vision is extremely limited, so you can do some "risky" moves while moving.
The Mammets also have a "RNG-like" form, where they shoot with a little gun (I locked one in this form so I can confirm this). Annoying attack more than troubling since the damage is low (can interrupt spells since it's fast). If you have a DRK that manages to absorb-AGI them in this form they will miss often.
Ranger form..? mabey this is what we've been calling mnk form, or mabey it is monk form and it just looks like a gun, and..
How would absorb AGI make the miss often.. well.. I can understand if it's attacking the drk but. dex would make them miss more <.< not agi.
Dear people I don't like: 凸(â—´―｀â—)凸
If it truely is a ranged style attack, Absorb-AGI would make them miss. AGI is tied to Ranged accuracy. However, if it is just a normal attack, then all AGI would do is bring down their Evasion.
TyrosofBahamut wrote:
If it truely is a ranged style attack, Absorb-AGI would make them miss. AGI is tied to Ranged accuracy. However, if it is just a normal attack, then all AGI would do is bring down their Evasion.
whoops XD guess I shoulda read into that more, forgot he was going on ranged attacks :p
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And the thread breaches the surface of Main once more!
Just an update and notification to our gentle readers: Testing has suggested that only the MNK form of the Mammets can use Transmogrification, and that only the BLM form can use Mindwall.
This should make completing this battle tolerable if not easy. Enjoy!
Just an update and notification to our gentle readers: Testing has suggested that only the MNK form of the Mammets can use Transmogrification, and that only the BLM form can use Mindwall.
This should make completing this battle tolerable if not easy. Enjoy!
My party just completed this battle, with a hybrid version of the above strategies. (Tank/Tank/Kiter)
Setup: Pal/War, War/Nin, Rdm/Whm, Smn/Whm, Mnk/War, and Blm/Whm
The Paladin went off and held one, using a huge caché of Hi-Potions, and heals, with Invincible as backup. Summoner kited another one, and the remaining members proceded to 2HR and unleash all they could sling at the third one.
Once that one was dead, we moved on to the one on our Paladin.
Finally the one the Summoner was kiting.
Notes: As the Red Mage of the party I can offer this info on spells.
1. Gravity will hold, but not long, so will Bind. Initially when the Paladin took one, I Bound it, and it stayed off him for a little while, maybe about 10-15 seconds, but that's still less damage taken.
2. Other spells seem to work fairly well. Silence is your best friend against the Black Mages. Paralyze also seems to stick pretty well. The only time Silence is an annoyance is when it puts up Mind Wall. Then just grit your teeth and get your Curagas ready.
3. You're going to go through MP pretty fast on this battle, especially if you're healing. Ethers and Juice will help thin that. Try to hold off Convert as long as possible, if you're a Rdm. (I wound up not needing to use it) High MP food is advisable, stuff like Marron Glace or Rolanberry pies.
4. Most importantly party communication! If we saw a Mammett put up Transmogrify or Mind Wall, someone would always start spamming NO PHYSICAL or NO MAGIC.
Setup: Pal/War, War/Nin, Rdm/Whm, Smn/Whm, Mnk/War, and Blm/Whm
The Paladin went off and held one, using a huge caché of Hi-Potions, and heals, with Invincible as backup. Summoner kited another one, and the remaining members proceded to 2HR and unleash all they could sling at the third one.
Once that one was dead, we moved on to the one on our Paladin.
Finally the one the Summoner was kiting.
Notes: As the Red Mage of the party I can offer this info on spells.
1. Gravity will hold, but not long, so will Bind. Initially when the Paladin took one, I Bound it, and it stayed off him for a little while, maybe about 10-15 seconds, but that's still less damage taken.
2. Other spells seem to work fairly well. Silence is your best friend against the Black Mages. Paralyze also seems to stick pretty well. The only time Silence is an annoyance is when it puts up Mind Wall. Then just grit your teeth and get your Curagas ready.
3. You're going to go through MP pretty fast on this battle, especially if you're healing. Ethers and Juice will help thin that. Try to hold off Convert as long as possible, if you're a Rdm. (I wound up not needing to use it) High MP food is advisable, stuff like Marron Glace or Rolanberry pies.
4. Most importantly party communication! If we saw a Mammett put up Transmogrify or Mind Wall, someone would always start spamming NO PHYSICAL or NO MAGIC.
OK, I have a question about the "Super Paladin" strategy...
Do I still have to worry about the Mammets (that I have not engaged, only aggroed, like the strategy says) changing job forms? Because it seems to me that this idea could go downhill very quickly if both of the non-engaged ones switched to WAR, or BLM forms...
Yellow Liquid wouldn't help, either, because then you've engaged the mobs. Do they just stay in their MNK forms the whole time until engaged, or what?
Do I still have to worry about the Mammets (that I have not engaged, only aggroed, like the strategy says) changing job forms? Because it seems to me that this idea could go downhill very quickly if both of the non-engaged ones switched to WAR, or BLM forms...
Yellow Liquid wouldn't help, either, because then you've engaged the mobs. Do they just stay in their MNK forms the whole time until engaged, or what?
Quote:
Do I still have to worry about the Mammets (that I have not engaged, only aggroed, like the strategy says) changing job forms? Because it seems to me that this idea could go downhill very quickly if both of the non-engaged ones switched to WAR, or BLM forms...
Yes, you do have to worry about this. That said, I've done it twice now and it's never been a big deal. I always engaged one and used my 2-hour right away, and that was enough hate for the one I was directly tanking to not turn when the WHM healed me.
I was the summoner on TheWanderingShadow's run, and I'd definitely have to say these guys aren't as tough as they're made out. Now, granted, our tanks were loaded to the gills with hi-potions, but even with a short supply of them I'd think we'd have won.
As far as summoning kiting advice goes, I'd recommend bringing no less than 4 yaggie drinks and using Leviathan to kite. He seemed to do pretty well. If you've done the lvl 20 avatar battles, you'll know how to summoner kite. Just take away the searing light use.
Also as far as summon kiting goes, do not use any bloodpacts. It may be your instinct to do this, but using a bloodpact will get hate onto you, which will only buiid up over time. Just summon your avatar when it dies and run like mad. You're not trying to injure the mammat, you're just trying to keep it from slaughtering the rest of your party.
If you really want to conserve mp, carbuncle could work as well, but there were times when Leviathan didn't last quite long enough for me to dash all the way across screen. I wouldn't recommend using carby for this, but I don't think in the end it would make too much difference.
Edited, Sat May 28 03:45:56 2005 by MagicWeaponZill
As far as summoning kiting advice goes, I'd recommend bringing no less than 4 yaggie drinks and using Leviathan to kite. He seemed to do pretty well. If you've done the lvl 20 avatar battles, you'll know how to summoner kite. Just take away the searing light use.
Also as far as summon kiting goes, do not use any bloodpacts. It may be your instinct to do this, but using a bloodpact will get hate onto you, which will only buiid up over time. Just summon your avatar when it dies and run like mad. You're not trying to injure the mammat, you're just trying to keep it from slaughtering the rest of your party.
If you really want to conserve mp, carbuncle could work as well, but there were times when Leviathan didn't last quite long enough for me to dash all the way across screen. I wouldn't recommend using carby for this, but I don't think in the end it would make too much difference.
Edited, Sat May 28 03:45:56 2005 by MagicWeaponZill
Carbie works fine for kiting, i'd actually reccommend him over any of the others. None of the avatars last noticably longer than the others. Everytime I've done this BC as my SMN I've used carbie to kite with no problems - with carbuncle mitts and yagudo drinks, you'll actually -gain- mp with him out. In the rare event that Carbuncle dies before you have a chance to recast, just call for a RNG, RDM, of BLM to bind the mammet to give you a chance to recast and heal up.
Also, just to clarify, wyvern's dispelling wind won't remove food effects.
Edited, Sat May 28 09:36:47 2005 by Phrynia
Also, just to clarify, wyvern's dispelling wind won't remove food effects.
Edited, Sat May 28 09:36:47 2005 by Phrynia
My friend and I joined a pickup party to complete the Aquaducts, got through that okay (despite having two people who didn't heed our advice to remove fomor hate). We decided to push our luck and do the next mission too. Riverne was no problem at all getting to the boss. We used the "Super paladin" strategy with ninja tanking the pulled mammet. We lost due to some people not following orders but damn, we seriously could have won. We killed two of them but two people were dead at that point (myself included) so we had nothing left on them. A problem we had was my blm friend pulling hate and dying on the first one. I think another paladin would have worked better. Better hate lock would allow the DDer's to kill the first mammet faster. The faster the first one dies, the better your chances of victory.
Some good notes for my paladin brethern using this strategy.
The monk forms are a joke, laugh at their feeble attempts to damage you.
The blm's forms are a pain but spells don't interrupt cures so it's pretty easy to heal it back.
The warriors are the biggest threat. I used invincible to counter them the first time they used this form but should have saved sentinel for the second time. Save your best tricks for this form and save your potions for them too. Potions are faster than cure spells so you won't get interrupted.
The dragoon form...they never used them on me...
Anyways, this is a fight where everyone must pay attention to what the mob is doing. Long as you do that and you have plenty of resources to hang in there, you can win!
Some good notes for my paladin brethern using this strategy.
The monk forms are a joke, laugh at their feeble attempts to damage you.
The blm's forms are a pain but spells don't interrupt cures so it's pretty easy to heal it back.
The warriors are the biggest threat. I used invincible to counter them the first time they used this form but should have saved sentinel for the second time. Save your best tricks for this form and save your potions for them too. Potions are faster than cure spells so you won't get interrupted.
The dragoon form...they never used them on me...
Anyways, this is a fight where everyone must pay attention to what the mob is doing. Long as you do that and you have plenty of resources to hang in there, you can win!
.......0/4............ I hate this damn mission with a passion. i always go as rng/nin so im sure you can understand why. Im on gilgamesh if anyones wants to try the super paladin strat, send me a IG tell.
Rate up and bump. Thank you so much for these guides ^^ My group just got the Minotaur last week and this is next.
I beat this a few weeks ago, (It was in fact a pick-up party). Took us 3 tries. Our party setup was MNK/WAR (me) RDM/NIN, NIN/WAR, NIN/WAR, THF/NIN, SMN/WHM. Here was our first plan:
RDM goes in, aggroes the left, a NIN the right, kite'em around. I voke the middle so THF can SATA the NIN. Keep using liquids on 'monk' type, uses the absorb-phys attack skill. Eventually, a kiter dies, it goes for other kiter, that kiter dies, it comes for us, we die, smn leaves so he can raise us ><. (Went something like that...).
Number 2: New plan: NIN aggroes, (does not voke/ninjutsu/engage them) all of the mammets, while RDM stands back and heals him (somewhat like the 'super paladin' technique.). So I voke the middle, THF SATA the NIN, blah blah blah, I use liquids in monks a few times, not as much. The RDM doesn't conserve his MP and runs thru base and convert. He heals, gets hate, and dies. NIN soon dies. All 3 mammets are attacking us now, smn leaves to raise us again.
Number 3: Same general plan but now, I NEVER use yellow liquids on anything but DRG. So, now NIN aggroes 2, I voke one, SATA NIN. It's monk awhile, blah blah, but turns BLM, silence, blah blah. But what's this? It's DRG! Yellow Liquid! It stays DRG awhile now, so we finish it off. Next one, now NIN has one less guy on him. It turns DRG eventually, yellow liquid, changes, we finish it off. Third one the kiter and RDM are back, eventually one NIN dies, then the other NIN vokes. SMN Astral Flow Diamond Dust and we finish it off ^_^.
Oh, might I note, I used 2hr in the first run >< so..
I came very prepared w/ potions and like 14 yellow liquids :O. Good luck with this all, rate up Wingchild!
RDM goes in, aggroes the left, a NIN the right, kite'em around. I voke the middle so THF can SATA the NIN. Keep using liquids on 'monk' type, uses the absorb-phys attack skill. Eventually, a kiter dies, it goes for other kiter, that kiter dies, it comes for us, we die, smn leaves so he can raise us ><. (Went something like that...).
Number 2: New plan: NIN aggroes, (does not voke/ninjutsu/engage them) all of the mammets, while RDM stands back and heals him (somewhat like the 'super paladin' technique.). So I voke the middle, THF SATA the NIN, blah blah blah, I use liquids in monks a few times, not as much. The RDM doesn't conserve his MP and runs thru base and convert. He heals, gets hate, and dies. NIN soon dies. All 3 mammets are attacking us now, smn leaves to raise us again.
Number 3: Same general plan but now, I NEVER use yellow liquids on anything but DRG. So, now NIN aggroes 2, I voke one, SATA NIN. It's monk awhile, blah blah, but turns BLM, silence, blah blah. But what's this? It's DRG! Yellow Liquid! It stays DRG awhile now, so we finish it off. Next one, now NIN has one less guy on him. It turns DRG eventually, yellow liquid, changes, we finish it off. Third one the kiter and RDM are back, eventually one NIN dies, then the other NIN vokes. SMN Astral Flow Diamond Dust and we finish it off ^_^.
Oh, might I note, I used 2hr in the first run >< so..
I came very prepared w/ potions and like 14 yellow liquids :O. Good luck with this all, rate up Wingchild!
I had an issue while trying a variation of the Super Paladin technique, and I was wondering if anyone can tell me what went wrong...
Our setup was PLD/WAR, BST/NIN, WAR/THF, RDM/NIN, WHM/BLM, BLM/WHM. At first we tried the kiter strategy with no success; Red Mage ended up being a poor kiter. Eventually we agreed to let the PLD aggro the mammets (without voking or claiming as per Super PLD), while I pulled one off to kite it and the WAR pulled one off to bring it back to the rest of the group to kill it.
So I'm running around the circle. The White Mage has been Curing the Paladin with no problems, even getting hit by -ga spells sometimes as the mammet is in BLM form. Going pretty smoothly... I run by the mammet on my kiting circuit and the PLD's mammet casts Thundaga. It hits me, I call his mammet a bizznatch in party chat, and I keep running. My mammet ends up finishing off my jug pet, and by now I'm across the island. I call a new Jug Pet, and for some reason the PLD's mammet comes running after me. I end up dying because of this and we lose. Can't for the life of me figure out how I got hate from the damn thing. Any ideas?
Our setup was PLD/WAR, BST/NIN, WAR/THF, RDM/NIN, WHM/BLM, BLM/WHM. At first we tried the kiter strategy with no success; Red Mage ended up being a poor kiter. Eventually we agreed to let the PLD aggro the mammets (without voking or claiming as per Super PLD), while I pulled one off to kite it and the WAR pulled one off to bring it back to the rest of the group to kill it.
So I'm running around the circle. The White Mage has been Curing the Paladin with no problems, even getting hit by -ga spells sometimes as the mammet is in BLM form. Going pretty smoothly... I run by the mammet on my kiting circuit and the PLD's mammet casts Thundaga. It hits me, I call his mammet a bizznatch in party chat, and I keep running. My mammet ends up finishing off my jug pet, and by now I'm across the island. I call a new Jug Pet, and for some reason the PLD's mammet comes running after me. I end up dying because of this and we lose. Can't for the life of me figure out how I got hate from the damn thing. Any ideas?
Thank you for the great guide!!!
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