A SMN's plea to WHM'sFollow

I'll leave paragraph anyway, but didn't realize this was bumped again. >_>; {I'm sorry}

To answer the original statement:

I know! God do I know! Starting to level SMN myself, after leveling WHM for nearly 56 levels straight, I don't /wnat/ to main heal, not even backup heal really. I want to play SMN/BLM for the job traits, the possible MP cost reduction+Refresh seems like a godly combo to me. I also know that invites would be slim to none, so I don't plan on playing that. :\

However, I digress. Even early on while leveling WHM, I knew that if a WHM wasn't available, a RDM or SMN took the job once they had Cure2 in Qufim. Am I bothered by that? Hell no. I just wasn't there when the party was gathering together. Tough luck on my part. I will admit there's some arrogance on my part, that "I'll always have a party no matter what.", but that was broken a month ago when I stayed 52 for 2 and a half weeks. [Bad times seeking? I have no idea.] I'm grateful for any & all parties I get, because exp is exp.

Don't let a few bad WHM get you down. I'd like to believe we all understand, and there isnt' a real rivalry here. I love SMN's in parties [also because the sub WHM], because when my MP bites the dust after a long battle, they can assist in curing for 3/4 a battle while I heal up for mp. I love SMN's, RDM's, BRD's & PLD's. They all help ease my job in times of stress, and can assist when the WHM can't. [Even Healing Ruby is good in an emergency. :D] I don't know what I would do without assistance from those job classes. >_>;

Edited, Tue Oct 18 11:10:19 2005 by Akucaen

Wow, this turned into quite a discussion. I agree with the concept of some of what Anotherusername wrote, but to say that RDM are useless is silly. I haven’t partied without a RDM in over 20 levels, and honestly cannot do it with my static with any efficiency. Some of my comments, like most ppls, are based on my own experiences; some to me are common sense, so here goes.

My static set up is BLM-me, Galka PLD, Taru SMM, DRG, Hume BRD, and we always get a RDM. We are a fantastic force to behold, when everyone, mostly the RDM is on his game. As you can guess, we all share main healing duties, most of my MP per battle is spent healing the PLD, the SMM heals and removes status aliments, as well as the RDM, who enfeebs and Buffs, refresh of course, and the BRD with Ballad, Cures, and the ACC and ATT songs for the DRG. We all stay busy, and either I, the SMM, the PLD or the BRD can raise.

If a party close by wipes, even if we have to take their mob out, one of us always will raise at least their healer, or all of them, because, why not, the chain is broken anyway, and this kind of thing is just gonna happen. It’s a game about community, and being at the very least neighborly is essential to the health of any community.

However, it really baffles me that as players we have access to a bunch of things, be it by CQ points of AH, that can aid us if the party wipes. When traveling to dangerous places, even with this party set up, I ALWAYS stopped to get at the very least a scroll of reraise before the spell became available to me. I mean, this is common sense if you ask me. Why anyone would not have one of those with them is just stupid imo. Also, a Hi-Reraiser is available at the AH, and not to expensive, its not cheap, but considering all things, its a tool that SE provided to us, and why more people do not use them is beyond me. Same goes for Silent oil and powders. It amazes me when aiding others doing LB quests or coffer hunts or missions where you go into hostile environments, especially where you have sight arrgo that the people who need the mission are not investing a little bit of Gil into its success.

nothing upsets me more than having to stop and cast invis on someone, helping them with their quest/mission/etc, so they don’t catch sight arrgo, and getting it myself because of it.

My point being the expecting something from someone because the "can" do it, i.e. raise, sneak, invis, is a crock. This is not to say that its ok for that person to refuse to raise/sneak/invis because of this, just saying that we all, each of us are ultimately responsible to ourselves for our fate, and if we neglect to use the tools provided in game to protect ourselves, the only blame lies firmly on our own shoulders.

To all those saying "It's not another WHMs responsibility to raise you if you're in another party."

Man **** all of you. Don't ***** at a WHM when you're leveling in a newbie zone and DEMAND an R3. After all, they aren't IN your party.

And lest we remind you ALL, that while we're givin out R2s, we're still stuck with Reraise 1 until level 60, and while we're handin out R3s, we're stuck with reraise 2 until level 75.

One thing I don't understand is why your party left you without raising you? Did you die after everyone disbanded and left? Was there no rdm, brd/whm, blm/whm, or pld in your party?

If you died by accident after they left or if you didn't have anyone with r1 in your party, then I agree it would have been polite for the whm to raise you.

If you told your party to leave because you wanted to wait for r2 or r3 from the whm without asking him first, then I can understand him not being willing to raise you. Your party left assuming he'd clean up for your party. I don't have a whm with r2 yet, but while I think I would still raise you and maybe even r2 you, I would feel like you were inconsiderate of me and my party.

Edited, Tue Oct 18 14:09:23 2005 by Kyrai

Edit: My point was that maybe this had nothing to do with you being a summoner. You said you just assumed it because of another incident. I was just trying to point out this particular incident may not have been about you being a summoner at all. The whms that I know have no problems with summoner.

Edited, Tue Oct 25 12:30:34 2005 by Kyrai

If I see a dead person then Im gonna try and raise them with my highest Raise (which is III). I would hope that others would do the same for me. My biggest veef would be people who refuse anything lower than Raise III. Seeing as untill level 75 when I can give it to my self chances are I won't get one.

Actually it isn't, because on more than one occassion I would be in a party with a SMN, and asked to only "backup heal" because teh SMN has more MP.

What people fail to realize is that in a level 10 party, a SMN/WHM only has the spells of a level 5 WHM. In a level 20 party, a SMN has teh abilities of a level 10 WHM. So on and so forth.

With SMN as a main healer, you get HALF of the abilities of a WHM.

We are forced to play main healer almost exclusivly. If I'm forming a party and I can get a WHM darn right I will. If I'm unable to form a party and there's already WHM and SMN seeking I usually just level a different job or craft. I don't like being the main healer as Cure 3 is the best I'll ever have.

I'm not going to read 2.5 pages of responses to know every detail that's been discussed, but from the first page, those who say when you party without a WHM, you know what you're getting into, and don't deserve any more than Raise 1, if any raise at all:

First, as said many times by many people, all other mage jobs do not want to be WHM. It is the role they are forced into by party needs. Yes, you can be a WHM in those higher levels who lost a party to a SMN, but I'd bet when that party was looking for a healer, you weren't seeking, only the SMN. So did you really lose to them? No. They were the only option.

Technical numbers aside based on the actuall Vana'diel census, consider an even spread of jobs in your level range seeking parties. There are 15 different jobs, of them, only 1 is WHM. If, as a WHM, you feel that only you should be chosen as party healer, that means that with a typcial 6 person party setup, only 1 of every 2.5 partiable groups will be allowed to level because only 1 of every 15 people is a WHM. Everyone else is supposed to stand around and do nothing?

Just as the player base found a new Tank in the NIN job so that parties could continue without waiting forever for a Tank, they have found new Healers in any mage job available that can fill it. I can't believe any WHM would find this unfair, or next time they can drop their current party and join mine when no other WHM's are looking and I am forced to ask a SMN to do a job they don't really want to do in the first place.

I understand the risk of a no WHM party, and that I would accept R1 instead of R2 or R3, but for a WHM to stand over the body of a SMN and refuse to raise them based on the fact that people put them in parties to heal is garbage.

Oh, now you want to call me stupid for no reason.

How's this for stupid:

Disagreeing with someone, and then disagreeing that you were disagreeing.


I made a post disagreeing with someone saying to SMN "The truth is, you do replace us in parties and some WHM may take deep offense to this."; I called it ********* and YOU, dear genious, disagreed with me, and now.. you're disagreeing that you were disagreeing..

Did you fail to comprehend the post to which I was responding to? Did it go completely over your head that that person was blaming SMN for taking their spot, and that I was disagreeing, insisting that it is not SMNs fault, and that by disagreeing with me that means you're agreeing with the person I was responding to that SMN are taking WHMs spot, and that it is their fault, and now you're disagreeing with that, and you think I'm stupid. You can't even agree with yourself.

Edit: spelling

Edited, Tue Oct 18 16:57:49 2005 by ThePalace

Wow. Just Wow. That White Mage was WAY out of line.

I'm rather sure that if a party had a choice between a Summoner Main healer and a White Mage main healer, They'd most likely go with White Mage. The REASON we "take your spot" in a party is that the White Mages are NOT ON IN OUR LEVEL RANGE. Most of the time. I'm a 39 Summoner / 31 White Mage. When I play my White Mage, I help everyone, My Priority for health goes as follows in most situations:
1) Party Members
2) People around me
3) Myself
Now if By healing the people around me I get myself killed, i'll heal myself first, because That would be bad for my party. Anyway, i'm getting off topic. As a White Mage, i feel it is my duty to help people, that is the ability that we are given. But if something like this senario happens (and this did to me once), well you'll see what i say =P.

Guy:"u whm heal me now!"
Me:"don't Demand it from me. I'll gladly help you, but please ask."
Guy:"STFU U STUPID F***ER! F***ING HEAL ME U NOOB!"
Me:"..."
Guy:"HEALNOW F***ER!"
Me:"Let me think...no. F*** off and have a nice day you B***h (^.^)b
/blist add "Guy"

If someone asks me for a heal, I'll heal them when it is convinient for my party. What I mean is, if i'm in the middle of a fight, unless someone is on the verge of death i'll focus on my party.

Anyway, As a Summoner, I also know that We do not want to take a White Mage's spot in a party, i'd MUCH rather Summon. I didn't spend 4 1/2 months getting my avatars to main heal. But, like he said, if we want to get anywhere in the higher levels, we kind of have to.

~~Ivan~~

>.> we did? I've never had any issues backup healing in a party to a summoner cause I always end up healing anyways. They should be too busy using blood pact and resting to heal. When I party, I don't listen to what the party leader tells me to do if it relates to ruining the purpose of a whm. In one party, I had to pull, when we had both a thf and a rng in the party. ?_? wtf
anyways, smn have no cause to take over as a whm in any party situation unless there is no whm at all, or the whm is out of mp.