Finding the right LS is like finding a great pt. They're few and far between, and quite often you end up in a few bad before you find a good one.
This really makes a great LS event. 18 people can participate and it really feels like a group effort. Every player stays on their toes or they lose. It's great though, because it helps everyone work together.
My LS runs a weekly Garrison night where we organize a full alliance and run 4-5 rounds in a row. That way everyone gets the excitement of lotting on different items, but everyone also gets something for their trouble. Plus, taking a group you know helps you set up rules and strategies in advance.
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I find it interesting that you did not include one of the most prominent and successful strategies, the kiting method.
There are several variations on this method, and they all work equally well. The basic idea is to pull one mob away from the rest and keep it alive, so tha tonce the other mobs have died the pt can rest and heal ot full. This can be done through sleeps, or regular kiting by running constantly.
By using kiting the pickup groups I make easily keep 755 or more of the patricians alive, and my LS is able to keep all of them alive consistently. I have yet to lose a single garrison, and everytime I have personally been the kiter (as a brd, using foe lullaby).
There are several variations on this method, and they all work equally well. The basic idea is to pull one mob away from the rest and keep it alive, so tha tonce the other mobs have died the pt can rest and heal ot full. This can be done through sleeps, or regular kiting by running constantly.
By using kiting the pickup groups I make easily keep 755 or more of the patricians alive, and my LS is able to keep all of them alive consistently. I have yet to lose a single garrison, and everytime I have personally been the kiter (as a brd, using foe lullaby).
I did include the kiting method, but I commonly refer to it as the Sleep Trick. I am finishing a final version of this guide and will try to make both strategies more clear.
Check the Job Class strategy section under mages. The last paragraph explains that by sleeping a mob between rounds, the entire group can rest to full. I placed this under the mages section because in my experience, the only way to successfully sleep/kite the mob between rounds requires a magic user (BLM, NIN, etc.)
Check the Job Class strategy section under mages. The last paragraph explains that by sleeping a mob between rounds, the entire group can rest to full. I placed this under the mages section because in my experience, the only way to successfully sleep/kite the mob between rounds requires a magic user (BLM, NIN, etc.)
it is impossible for non-garrison PCs to attack the monsters
it is impossible for non-garrison PCs to heal garrison PCs or NPCs
it is possible for monsters to damage non-garrison PCs.
There's one thing you've missed that's major.
it is possible for monsters to aggro non-garrison PCs.
having died during several garrison runs (mostly my own fault - I over provoked to save NPCs and traded xp for success) I respawned right outside, at the outpost. The ninja kite had died one round, and I had a brainstorm. As the next wave approached, I knelt in front of the orcs (W. ronfaure garrison) as they spawned. one of them aggroed me. and as a lvl 30 war instead of capped at 20, I could easily take it's blows as I ran it around ronfarue. I couldn't fight back, but it stayed on me.
This can be used as a strategy, say if there's 15 people alternating in to a 12 man garrison, or if someone dies and HPs they can pick up the slack and help.
it is impossible for non-garrison PCs to heal garrison PCs or NPCs
it is possible for monsters to damage non-garrison PCs.
There's one thing you've missed that's major.
it is possible for monsters to aggro non-garrison PCs.
having died during several garrison runs (mostly my own fault - I over provoked to save NPCs and traded xp for success) I respawned right outside, at the outpost. The ninja kite had died one round, and I had a brainstorm. As the next wave approached, I knelt in front of the orcs (W. ronfaure garrison) as they spawned. one of them aggroed me. and as a lvl 30 war instead of capped at 20, I could easily take it's blows as I ran it around ronfarue. I couldn't fight back, but it stayed on me.
This can be used as a strategy, say if there's 15 people alternating in to a 12 man garrison, or if someone dies and HPs they can pick up the slack and help.
The top three points are all included in the guide, but your point on an aggro-tank is great. Never ever thought of that.
You will see that in my next version.
You will see that in my next version.
My Ls and some Buddies Did Garrison 20 - W. Ronfaure last night 2x, and I recorded a Video for Download. :)
Also, we have a small thread up, where the boys and Girls will Analyse what we did, and I can help throw that info into a Guide Format ;)
Also, we have a small thread up, where the boys and Girls will Analyse what we did, and I can help throw that info into a Guide Format ;)
Quote:
I felt so bad one night.
A low level player came by and we warned him repeatedly to stay back. He would definitely die.
Despite our advice (the constant tells of 18 people) he ran into the middle of the third wave of Garrison and was subsequently killed. He lay there for a wave and then hped.
Sadly his hp was set to the outpost.
He spawned and died again.
A low level player came by and we warned him repeatedly to stay back. He would definitely die.
Despite our advice (the constant tells of 18 people) he ran into the middle of the third wave of Garrison and was subsequently killed. He lay there for a wave and then hped.
Sadly his hp was set to the outpost.
He spawned and died again.
Thus Darwinism strikes again!
Okay, this is the info that i've gathered from doing garrisons many times, mostly successful too^^ but notice the mostly ;P
Ok, general party setup before garrison:
m m m m m m
m m m m m v
--o--o--w x x x x x x x x x x w--o--o--
| x x x x x x x x x x |
-o--o o--o--
w w w w
---------------------
Ok, little astry art to help with the visulization here... the -- and o represent the outer walls of the outpost, the --------- is the inner building that the npc war wizards, temple knights, etc, stand by.
x = npcs that you need to protect
m = us melees^^
w = mages ;)
v = me^^
Now then, we normally go in with about 18 people, and there are normally about 18-20 npcs, i want to say 20-22 though, because i think they stand in two rows of either 10-11 each, it's been awhile since i last did a garrison though, and not being a mage job, i've never been too concerned with how many npcs there were, i was more concerned with keeping the mobs off them.
ok, that is roughly how we get into position before each fight, though sometimes our mages and melees are more mixed in, but typically the melees flank the opening, one, maybe two mages per group, the rest of the mages stay behind the npcs and over see the battle. We have one person kite a mob around until all the others are dead, all npcs are healed, and all hp/mp is at full, then bring in the mob and kill it.
Most of the melees have warrior subbed, i myself go in as a war/drg, sounds odd yes, but at lvl 20 i get an attack bonus and jump with a dragoon sub, add that in with all my att+ and str+ gear, and i am one of the most powerful DD in our group typically.
DD/tanks engage the mobs, and try to hold hate on themselves. Since everyone tends to scatter once the fight begins, i wait and see what mob the npcs are fighting, then i go after that one, kill it, the go after the next mob the npcs decide to fight. Because I'm the semi tank for the npcs, one of our mages always tags along with me to keep an eye on my hp, npc hp, and to help however she can.
KEEP THE NPCS ALIVE!!! You'll get more gil at the end of the fight, and better drops at the end of the fight as well. Someone on the main forum was saying they get 0-1 dragon chronicles and 1-2 pieces of garrison armor. Well we get 2 dragon chronicles, and 5-6 pieces of garrison armor. We typically lose only 0-3 npcs at the most, normally we have all of the npcs or else only lose one of them. Mannequin parts are dropped by the mobs and seem to be random, but very plentiful during the second wave, almost everyone tends to come away with 1-2 mannequin parts.
We do about 4-5 runs back to back as well, so everyone also comes away with at least one bit of garrison armor. Our lotting rules are simple, whoever dies gets first pick at the dragon chronicles, if no one dies, then it's a free for all on them, with maybe the person who started the garrison getting one of them, this tends to vary. mannequin parts are free for all since you can only hold one of them. If someone wants them for a mannequin and not to sell they get priority. As for the garrison items, if someone wants a piece of armor to wear, they get it, otherwise everyone lots on something until they get 1 item, then they wait until everyone has 1 item, then it's round 2 and they get to lot again, wait till everyone gets 2 items, etc. Typically works out very well.
stuff to watch out for:
never do garrisons outside your LS, the few times i've done so there was rampant chaos, people ignored the fair lot rules in place and walked away with as many as 8 garrison items, (only 5 people out of 18 got ANY items in 4 garrison runs, i still don't know why the leader didn't kick them when they still lotted on items)
lastly people get mad and will try to kill you all, by "accident" of course. This one ninja who was supposed to be our kiter was complaining saying that she wanted a bigger share of the loot because she had a higher chance of dying, leader said no and the ninja kept "accidently" bringing the mob that was kited close enough to the outpost so that the npcs would attack it, next wave comes before we're ready, chaos ensues.
so there's vyuru's general advice and garrison knowhow in a nutshell, hope that it can be of use to you taodyn.
Ok, general party setup before garrison:
m m m m m m
m m m m m v
--o--o--w x x x x x x x x x x w--o--o--
| x x x x x x x x x x |
-o--o o--o--
w w w w
---------------------
Ok, little astry art to help with the visulization here... the -- and o represent the outer walls of the outpost, the --------- is the inner building that the npc war wizards, temple knights, etc, stand by.
x = npcs that you need to protect
m = us melees^^
w = mages ;)
v = me^^
Now then, we normally go in with about 18 people, and there are normally about 18-20 npcs, i want to say 20-22 though, because i think they stand in two rows of either 10-11 each, it's been awhile since i last did a garrison though, and not being a mage job, i've never been too concerned with how many npcs there were, i was more concerned with keeping the mobs off them.
ok, that is roughly how we get into position before each fight, though sometimes our mages and melees are more mixed in, but typically the melees flank the opening, one, maybe two mages per group, the rest of the mages stay behind the npcs and over see the battle. We have one person kite a mob around until all the others are dead, all npcs are healed, and all hp/mp is at full, then bring in the mob and kill it.
Most of the melees have warrior subbed, i myself go in as a war/drg, sounds odd yes, but at lvl 20 i get an attack bonus and jump with a dragoon sub, add that in with all my att+ and str+ gear, and i am one of the most powerful DD in our group typically.
DD/tanks engage the mobs, and try to hold hate on themselves. Since everyone tends to scatter once the fight begins, i wait and see what mob the npcs are fighting, then i go after that one, kill it, the go after the next mob the npcs decide to fight. Because I'm the semi tank for the npcs, one of our mages always tags along with me to keep an eye on my hp, npc hp, and to help however she can.
KEEP THE NPCS ALIVE!!! You'll get more gil at the end of the fight, and better drops at the end of the fight as well. Someone on the main forum was saying they get 0-1 dragon chronicles and 1-2 pieces of garrison armor. Well we get 2 dragon chronicles, and 5-6 pieces of garrison armor. We typically lose only 0-3 npcs at the most, normally we have all of the npcs or else only lose one of them. Mannequin parts are dropped by the mobs and seem to be random, but very plentiful during the second wave, almost everyone tends to come away with 1-2 mannequin parts.
We do about 4-5 runs back to back as well, so everyone also comes away with at least one bit of garrison armor. Our lotting rules are simple, whoever dies gets first pick at the dragon chronicles, if no one dies, then it's a free for all on them, with maybe the person who started the garrison getting one of them, this tends to vary. mannequin parts are free for all since you can only hold one of them. If someone wants them for a mannequin and not to sell they get priority. As for the garrison items, if someone wants a piece of armor to wear, they get it, otherwise everyone lots on something until they get 1 item, then they wait until everyone has 1 item, then it's round 2 and they get to lot again, wait till everyone gets 2 items, etc. Typically works out very well.
stuff to watch out for:
never do garrisons outside your LS, the few times i've done so there was rampant chaos, people ignored the fair lot rules in place and walked away with as many as 8 garrison items, (only 5 people out of 18 got ANY items in 4 garrison runs, i still don't know why the leader didn't kick them when they still lotted on items)
lastly people get mad and will try to kill you all, by "accident" of course. This one ninja who was supposed to be our kiter was complaining saying that she wanted a bigger share of the loot because she had a higher chance of dying, leader said no and the ninja kept "accidently" bringing the mob that was kited close enough to the outpost so that the npcs would attack it, next wave comes before we're ready, chaos ensues.
so there's vyuru's general advice and garrison knowhow in a nutshell, hope that it can be of use to you taodyn.
I've got a big question...why are there times when you do a garrison, but no mannequin parts dropped? We just tried a garrison last sunday, and we succeeded in winning, but we didn't find any mannequin parts at all. And since that was the reason why we were doing the garrison, it bugged the hell out of us. The person that traded the quest item had participated in a garrison just a few days before, but was NOT the trader for the previous garrison. I've heard of people doing multiple garrison runs in one night, and we'd like to do that too, but not if the mannequin parts don't drop. Please help us figure out why they didn't.
While the mannequin parts drop from the mobs, they are not a guarenteed drop. Read any NM thread and you will see wildly different drop rates.
One person will go 1/2 and another will go 1/400. This is all random probability.
I have seen dozens of parts drop in a single night. I have also seen only one or two parts drop. I am, however, sure that you will receive some mannequin pieces if you try again.
Randomness may seem something seem impossible when it really isn't.
One person will go 1/2 and another will go 1/400. This is all random probability.
I have seen dozens of parts drop in a single night. I have also seen only one or two parts drop. I am, however, sure that you will receive some mannequin pieces if you try again.
Randomness may seem something seem impossible when it really isn't.
You answer the one question that has eluded me. What the items were, and where to get them.
Also, nicely done.
Thank you.
Also, nicely done.
Thank you.
I really wish I could take credit for that information, but it is simply taken from mysterytour (one of the best FFXI sites out there ^^).
I am glad people enjoy my guide and I hope they have helped people have a good time and a lot of success.
I am glad people enjoy my guide and I hope they have helped people have a good time and a lot of success.
I've come up with a few other questions...
1. What would you guess is a good time estimate for a garrison, start to finish, per 1 traded item?
2. Someone mentioned something about hitting the HP when they died. If you HP in the middle of the garrison, are you removed from the event?
3. Lastly (for now at least), is there a decent drop rate on the items, or will I be farming for a month to get one?
1. What would you guess is a good time estimate for a garrison, start to finish, per 1 traded item?
2. Someone mentioned something about hitting the HP when they died. If you HP in the middle of the garrison, are you removed from the event?
3. Lastly (for now at least), is there a decent drop rate on the items, or will I be farming for a month to get one?
All very excellent questions. I'll try my best to answer them to your satisfaction.
1. What would you guess is a good time estimate for a garrison, start to finish, per 1 traded item?
Okay, it will take time to set up and get everyone prepared. You need to organize at the outpost and make sure everyone has appropriate level gear. Then about 10 minutes for the melee to run off and get full tp (if you have a high level job, it can take almost 30 kills to get full tp).
Once everyone is ready to go and you buff up (protect and shell), it should take less than ten minutes from the item being traded until the fourth wave is over.
Now since you have to wait at least 30 minutes between trades, that leaves you with 20 minutes to lot for items and prepare for your next round.
2. Someone mentioned something about hitting the HP when they died. If you HP in the middle of the garrison, are you removed from the event?
You are removed from the event. In order to participate, you need to be capped at the capped level. Anyone without the capped status effect will be unable to interact with players or NPCs.
If you die and hp, you will spawn at your hp with no capped status effect and must therefore wait for the round to end. There is no way to recap.
You are still, however, in the alliance and are still able to lot on reward items.
3. Lastly (for now at least), is there a decent drop rate on the items, or will I be farming for a month to get one?
The drop rate on the items is not that bad. It should take no more than an hour and even then only if you have bad luck.
Some days I get an item on my first mob, some days it takes an hour.
The main problem is, for the level 20 Garrisons, the mobs that drop the item are also needed for the Kazham key quest. This means you may be competing with others for a mob.
Honestly, it shouldn't take too long to get one, but make sure you bring a few people who can trade.
1. What would you guess is a good time estimate for a garrison, start to finish, per 1 traded item?
Okay, it will take time to set up and get everyone prepared. You need to organize at the outpost and make sure everyone has appropriate level gear. Then about 10 minutes for the melee to run off and get full tp (if you have a high level job, it can take almost 30 kills to get full tp).
Once everyone is ready to go and you buff up (protect and shell), it should take less than ten minutes from the item being traded until the fourth wave is over.
Now since you have to wait at least 30 minutes between trades, that leaves you with 20 minutes to lot for items and prepare for your next round.
2. Someone mentioned something about hitting the HP when they died. If you HP in the middle of the garrison, are you removed from the event?
You are removed from the event. In order to participate, you need to be capped at the capped level. Anyone without the capped status effect will be unable to interact with players or NPCs.
If you die and hp, you will spawn at your hp with no capped status effect and must therefore wait for the round to end. There is no way to recap.
You are still, however, in the alliance and are still able to lot on reward items.
3. Lastly (for now at least), is there a decent drop rate on the items, or will I be farming for a month to get one?
The drop rate on the items is not that bad. It should take no more than an hour and even then only if you have bad luck.
Some days I get an item on my first mob, some days it takes an hour.
The main problem is, for the level 20 Garrisons, the mobs that drop the item are also needed for the Kazham key quest. This means you may be competing with others for a mob.
Honestly, it shouldn't take too long to get one, but make sure you bring a few people who can trade.
Thank you. Both for speed, and accuracy!
I went as WHM on my last Garrison and was focusing on keeping the NPCs alive. The problem with that job is always trying to tab over 18 NPCs to find the one that's getting hit. But I found a good solution:
I ran forward into the NPCs so I'd have a good view of the orcs when they pop. When one popped, I would select it with the mouse, hit an "/assist <t>" macro to see which NPC it was attacking, and focus my heals on that NPC. When someone voked that orc, I'd sometimes switch to another, but usually most of the orcs would be attacking the same NPC. Worked like a charm.
I ran forward into the NPCs so I'd have a good view of the orcs when they pop. When one popped, I would select it with the mouse, hit an "/assist <t>" macro to see which NPC it was attacking, and focus my heals on that NPC. When someone voked that orc, I'd sometimes switch to another, but usually most of the orcs would be attacking the same NPC. Worked like a charm.
Very nice idea. Never thought of that. ^^ I rarely play whm in Garrison, but I will pass the idea along.
The only problem I could see is when you start running into massive AoE attacks. The NPCs you're trying to save can be described in two simple phrases:
1) they have the defense of a tinfoil hat
2) they are the dumbest fighters in the world.
Seriously, no matter how injured they are they will swarm any mob in the area. This coupled with mobs that have huge AoE attacks can lead to many NPC deaths. I find a more shotgun-cure method works wonders.
Tab til you find a hurt NPC and hit cure. Save who you can and don't worry about who you can't. It's triage at its finest.
I wish I could say I use some well thought out strategy for picking my targets, but I do not. I F8 the closest mob and voke. I then stab it repeatedly with the pointy end of my platoon or military lance. When that mob dies from the aforementioned pointyness, I repeat.
The only problem I could see is when you start running into massive AoE attacks. The NPCs you're trying to save can be described in two simple phrases:
1) they have the defense of a tinfoil hat
2) they are the dumbest fighters in the world.
Seriously, no matter how injured they are they will swarm any mob in the area. This coupled with mobs that have huge AoE attacks can lead to many NPC deaths. I find a more shotgun-cure method works wonders.
Tab til you find a hurt NPC and hit cure. Save who you can and don't worry about who you can't. It's triage at its finest.
I wish I could say I use some well thought out strategy for picking my targets, but I do not. I F8 the closest mob and voke. I then stab it repeatedly with the pointy end of my platoon or military lance. When that mob dies from the aforementioned pointyness, I repeat.
Do you have any suggestions for how to run a lvl 50 garrison? So far the Garrison LS that I'm in has done the lvl 30 garrison so many times that we no longer have to try. We've also supplied enough Military Harps to the world that the price has dropped 500-700k.
Our problem comes in not having enough time to get healed up and defeat the mobs. So far we have only tried the one in Xarcabard and have gone with evenly set up pt's of 12-15. We have yet to have 18+ people sign up for this garrison.
Our current strategy is to pull one mob off and sleep it until the rest are dead and all players and NPCs are healed up. The problem we are having is that it's taking way too long to heal up and/or we get aggro and don't have enough melees. I'm wondering if just adding a few more mages and having a BRD and RDM in a primarily mage pt would be enough or if there is some other strat that would be better for this garrison.
Our problem comes in not having enough time to get healed up and defeat the mobs. So far we have only tried the one in Xarcabard and have gone with evenly set up pt's of 12-15. We have yet to have 18+ people sign up for this garrison.
Our current strategy is to pull one mob off and sleep it until the rest are dead and all players and NPCs are healed up. The problem we are having is that it's taking way too long to heal up and/or we get aggro and don't have enough melees. I'm wondering if just adding a few more mages and having a BRD and RDM in a primarily mage pt would be enough or if there is some other strat that would be better for this garrison.
Just a quick idea, but have you thought of lvling your NPCs and then summoning them during the garrison? Would they be subject to the same lvl cap? Would they be able to help out? Has anyone tried summoning an NPC during a garrison ever?
NPCs will come out, then leave immediately during a garrison. It sucks, even though you may need one more spot filled.:(
is it possible that this guide could be stickyed plz?
I am at 1 win and 1 loss on the Eastern Altep Desert Garrison. We had about 3 tanks and a few war/nin and some other melee, (me as thf). Its a lvl 50 cap garrison(if i remember). and drops the killer earrings.
What made things work is we had me(thf) pick a rng or mage mob. rng or even nin mobs are best because of their ranged attacks, and no chance to double attack, it makes thing so much nicer when they just stand there missing you. I would then pull it away from the npcs and other people and ants. I would then just spam sleep bolts. keep it slept and let every one rest to full hp/mp and even the npcs. It worked great the second round, the first not so great ><. Depending on which garrison you do and the mobs you will face you need to bring the appropriate medicines. we told every one to bring 1 stack of echo drops because of the ants tp move that silences. Most did, others didn't, that caused problems.
Why i suggest thf as the person to stall is because of the evasion, at 50 we have 2 evasion up traits, and the fact that if things go bad you can always flee and as long as no one have touched it it will stay on you. Of course you need caped evasion and marksmanship, which is not that hard. Let every one know which mob the thf or puller is going to get, dont voke it or diaga them @.@. I had this happen a few times even though i said which mob was mine, along with it being red, stupid <bt> marcos. If that happens try to pick another mob, or sa it get hate and run with it.
Two problems we had is that the Blm liked to Nuke, no heal. that ruined the first run, no npcs no items, they soon learned. also unlike ballista mobs that con ep or higher will aggro you. I had a lost soul try and eat me.
sorry for any misspells and such, i would like to wish all those who try garrison GL, i find them very fun (b^^)b. i wanna try the lvl 75 one
What made things work is we had me(thf) pick a rng or mage mob. rng or even nin mobs are best because of their ranged attacks, and no chance to double attack, it makes thing so much nicer when they just stand there missing you. I would then pull it away from the npcs and other people and ants. I would then just spam sleep bolts. keep it slept and let every one rest to full hp/mp and even the npcs. It worked great the second round, the first not so great ><. Depending on which garrison you do and the mobs you will face you need to bring the appropriate medicines. we told every one to bring 1 stack of echo drops because of the ants tp move that silences. Most did, others didn't, that caused problems.
Why i suggest thf as the person to stall is because of the evasion, at 50 we have 2 evasion up traits, and the fact that if things go bad you can always flee and as long as no one have touched it it will stay on you. Of course you need caped evasion and marksmanship, which is not that hard. Let every one know which mob the thf or puller is going to get, dont voke it or diaga them @.@. I had this happen a few times even though i said which mob was mine, along with it being red, stupid <bt> marcos. If that happens try to pick another mob, or sa it get hate and run with it.
Two problems we had is that the Blm liked to Nuke, no heal. that ruined the first run, no npcs no items, they soon learned. also unlike ballista mobs that con ep or higher will aggro you. I had a lost soul try and eat me.
sorry for any misspells and such, i would like to wish all those who try garrison GL, i find them very fun (b^^)b. i wanna try the lvl 75 one
Has anyone successfully completed the Vollbow Region Garrison? If so would you mind giving me some tips on the fight? I really want the Rai Kunimitsu. Thanks ^^
the battle order for ronfaure garrison should always be this:
cursemaker > serjant > fighter > chausser
chaussers will just stand there and shoot so assign a ninja at them and kite them until you are ready for them. cursemakers and serjants will not sleep so those are your first two targets. fighters should be provoked, moved away from the npcs, and slept. once the pld/blm orcs are dead, pull a fighter one by one, then the chaussers.
when the nm comes up, have a monk pull hate on it and get it away from the other orcs. the rest of the alliance kills the blm and pld orcs ASAP, then attack the nm. when the nm uses hundred fists, the monk that has hate uses it too. if you think a thf or pld will have hate during hundred fists it is not likely, after all you will later find out during NM fights that monks will end up tanking it anyways. everyone but the one that has the hate needs to attack NM from behind.
cursemaker > serjant > fighter > chausser
chaussers will just stand there and shoot so assign a ninja at them and kite them until you are ready for them. cursemakers and serjants will not sleep so those are your first two targets. fighters should be provoked, moved away from the npcs, and slept. once the pld/blm orcs are dead, pull a fighter one by one, then the chaussers.
when the nm comes up, have a monk pull hate on it and get it away from the other orcs. the rest of the alliance kills the blm and pld orcs ASAP, then attack the nm. when the nm uses hundred fists, the monk that has hate uses it too. if you think a thf or pld will have hate during hundred fists it is not likely, after all you will later find out during NM fights that monks will end up tanking it anyways. everyone but the one that has the hate needs to attack NM from behind.
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