On the subject of in-game same-sex marriage....Follow

better than to teach them the oposite... you would like grandchildren that are acctually yours?

wait... its sickens you to think about this world... where people express their love to one another?

that sorta just supported me...

When did European travel guides start including child pornography? 0.o Odd...

On a more serious note, you might want them to know such things go on, and tell them not to trust people that want them to take their clothes off for other reasons than taking a bath or changing ..... Though I won't tell you how to raise your kids.

riiiighhhttt, bottom line is..


People love each other.

People express that love.

It's not always by sex.

Gays don't just have sex because they love each other.

They do the same things other couples do.

If there is something wrong with gays loving each other. Then there is something wrong with straits loving each other.

anyway, i'm out, this arguement is getting off topic and people are using wierd and stupid excuses, on both sides of the arguement.

Hey, I hope you are not referring to the homosexual penguins! ;)

How many times have you taken a (|Subtle Blow|) at homosexuals in this topic? So far, you've invalidated my relationship with my partner of almost three years by saying I'm only with him to "get my jollies". You've made crude euphamisms related to gay sex, and you've compared me to a paedophile. How exactly are you being nice and sympathising? You are VERY entitled to an opinion, and I respect you for sharing it. You are NOT entitled to insult me, no matter how you try to veil it. And as many times as you've brought up gay sex, one would certainly get the impression that you're repressing something. Especially considering you're the only person in this entire topic to keep harping on and on about gay sex and pornography and paedophilia....

Actually the fact that I say Im sorry you have found love means that I believe homosexuals CAN find love... The fact that I disagree with gay marriage means I somehow have to be pidgeonholed as a homophobic biggot. I don't care about what you do in your bedroom and you have just as much right not to care what happens in mine. This is the EXACT problem I have with the issue of gay marriage and you nailed it. See, you can pull out the homophobe card or the biggot card however much as you please. I don't take subtle blows at you at all. I speak my mind and I'm completely unafraid to do so. I never not say what I mean. People who cant speak their minds are cowards. In this regard I also respect you highly. It can't possibly be a comfortable situation you are in but you stick to it. This leads to a problem in ideology. See, people who buy into the conventional wisdom of the day are FRIGHTENED TO DEATH of this subject. Anyone who doesnt agree with you is subject to all kinds of mudslinging. Like when I gave the child crying in a Wal Mart analogy. No sensible person will go up to the mother and say "your damn kid is annoying you should punish them" People see that that is almost if not more wrong than the simple fact that the kid is being a brat in the first place and choose to go on shopping having to put up with that nonsense. You cannot derail MY sensibilities however with the tired rhetoric however. I'm no more vaguley homosexual than the next guy. I'm not afraid to speak my mind. The very fact that you believe that you can call me a homophobic biggot and think that automatically gives you your way SHOWS exactly what is wrong with gay marriage. It doesnt matter what you ask for because if anyone says no then they are just as ostracized as me. Define tolerance again??

Have you ever been to West Hollywood, California, which is also known as Boy's Town? You'd love it there. ^^ I'm serious, too. All you really ever see are male or female couples, walking along the streets and living their everyday lives. There are billboards and general advertisements everywhere that have gay couples on them, and no, they don't all have something to do with sex, underwear, or related things. (Of course there are some, but if there weren't, it wouldn't be a normal balance, would it? It's really similar to the ratio of non-erotic to erotic heterosexual advertisement in any other town.) There's even the Gay Pages, which is a big yellow pages type book that even has advertisements within it that show gay couples, for things like air conditioning services, car repair, and so on, so forth. Completely normal treatment of homosexual people there, and heterosexuals too. It's a great place. ^^ Wouldn't it be wonderful if every town in the US was like that?

I live in Los Angeles (not in Hollywood though), by the way, so yes, I've been there. It's probably my favorite part of Hollywood, just because it's so hospitable. Famous towns like Beverly Hills and what not are seriously unimpressive, and I never go there, so long as I can avoid it. (I'm from Florida, and Beverely Hills, Hollywood and what not reminds me of Miami: It's a dull place, unless you're a tourist, and even then, I'd be surprised if you found enjoyment beyond South Beach.) Coincidentally, it has some of the nicest people, the cleanest look, and in general, supports one gay stereotype I don't find bad at all: An optimistic mindset and cleanliness. ^^ I think anyone, homosexual or heterosexual, should spend some time on the main strips there, if they get a chance to go. It's really cool.



Paragraph breaks inserted to help preserve my sanity, and others' as well. ^^

I disagree with this mindset completely, and although everyone should be entitled to their own opinion, I personally consider it as wrong as "black people aren't as good as white people," "women aren't as worthwhile as men," and so on, so forth. Do you know that white people used to say that black men couldn't like white women, and that if they admitted to it or pursued it, they were beaten, jailed, or killed for it? The same went for black women toward white men, although those stories don't seem to be as famous. That was racial and sexual. What makes a purely sexual form of prejudice any different? What justifies it? The fact that you don't want to care? Because of mindsets like that, gay people do have to make themselves heard. Do you know why?

People like you choose not to listen otherwise.

On top of that, I cannot believe it when people complain about things like Disney's Gay Day, gay pride parades, and other, similar events. Gay Day is one day out of the year. One day. Here, I'll even say it again: One day out of the year. Yet, because it focuses exclusively on gays, it is bothersome, unnecessary, and a burden to all heterosexuals? Isn't that a bit... ridiculous? Furthermore, we have plenty of heterosexual gathering places, heterosexual couples kissing in public, sex stories broadcast over the radio, advertisements, magazines, shows, movies... but a gay couple in public? Uh-oh! Someone set off the gaydar! Bad gay people, bad, bad! Smack their hands!

Telling someone of any race, sexual orientation, disability, age, or what have you to keep those facts to themselves is prejudice. You are treating them as if they are not your equal and do not deserve the same rights as you. It's not only politically correct for you to keep your mouth shut when they voice their sexual preference, but it's what your mother should've taught you: "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all."

Do you want them to not hold hands in public? All right, then. If you're a hetero male, don't hold your girlfriend's hand in public. Don't kiss her. Don't hug her. Hardly touch her. Don't introduce her to people are your girlfriend, because you don't want male-male couples to introduce themselves to you. Say she's your friend. Never acknowledge that she's your significant other. Don't marry her. Don't have children together, because you'll be publicly acknowledging that you had sex with her. (Or, say they're adopted, and keep your fornicating a secret.) Forget about government and work related benefits. When you die -- if you don't get separated in the meantime -- don't have your burial plots next to each other.

Does that sound ridiculous, overblown, or simply silly to you? It's not. If you think it is, I feel sorry for you. That is everything that gay people have to live without in countless parts of the world, and if you think it's all right, then I sincerely doubt the worth of your humanity. That's how you want gay people to be, but if you do not live the same lifestyle, you're a prejudiced hypocrite.

You also don't have to be gay to think like this. You simply have to be understanding. Encouraging prejudice against gays by excluding them is just as "logical," "excusable," and "justifiable" as hating people because of their race, height, physical condition, disabilities, impediments, and religion. Martin Luther King held marches. Lucretia Mott fought for women's equal rights and the rights of black people before her death in 1880. Yes, 1880. Gay people existed well before the birth of all of the Jehovah religions. If you think they are so wrong, you are as bad as the prejudice people who came before you.

Have a nice day. ^^

Marriage is not required to show one's love. You can still love someone without being married to them. The only thing marriage does is make it "right" to have sex with someone. Society doesn't like gay people nor premarital sex. If two gay people love each other, that should be enough. You don't need to get married, especially if sex means nothing to you. You get NOTHING out of it.

I didnt' read every post in this topic, so I'll just debate a few points from the first post.

"so that we know we're not alone in the world, so that we know we're not outcasts or freaks or unwanted by society."

But you ARE unwanted by society and therefore an outcast or "freak." The majority doesn't want you around. Thinking otherwise would be naive.

"Star Trek is supposed to be representative of mankind, it's supposed to be a multicultural show that represents the harmony and peace and acceptance mankind will achieve in the future. But where are all the gay people?"

Not very many heterosexual people would like that. That would kill their ratings and thus drop their income. Why kill your business just to make a few gays happy? That doesn't make sense.

"***** the homophobes and the Bible-thumpers, discrimination in any form is wrong!"

Did anyone else realize how hypocritical this is? Discrimination is wrong, so **** you people who do it! What the bloody hell?

I'm bored so I'll throw religion in as well. Sex is there to reproduce, that is it's soul purpose. Gay people cannot reproduce on their own whether they have sex or not. This is why I chose my username.

Yes, this is called the seperation of Church and State. Since this was supposed to be a "free" country, meaning that anyone could worship God/Allah/Buddah/Yomama/Rice Krispies (or choose not to worship) however they wanted to, our country's founding fathers rightfully decided that religious beliefs should not be what makes up our laws.

Which I am in full support of, and the blatant right-wing fundementalist Christian pandering our current administration is doing makes me sick.

Prejudice is bs, plain and simple. The fact that two members of the same sex can't get married in an ONLINE GAME is so stupid, godgsgfdg. However, it's not any less stupid than the fact that the same thing is happening irl.